Concordia News: Please Post Here

There is already a huge thread on this topic with many mavens in the fields of maritime safety, law both Italian, American and UK, camera angles and history. Perhaps you could consolidate this and the rest of us can get on with our busy lives.

Some would say too many so this would have been lost in there.

:)

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Saw the barge come in. Impressive piece of equipment.

It still amazes me that some people are prepared to believe the Media`s view of this accident without the Real Facts! how many in recent days have failed to grasp that the planned route was the route the ship was on until the final minutes and where it was half a mile off course! and we still do not know the reason as to why it was that half mile off course and may not know for some time to come if ever.

Specualtion and assumptions are driving this thread by people who cannot see the wood for the trees ... :eek:

Max .... you seem to have convinved yourself that Schettino will get the 2500 years or so that the Media claim he will be given despite having no actual reliable backed up facts.

"With an arrogant, know everything captain"

Ah you know this for sure then ? did not realise you knew Francesco so well!

For those who understand Italian, here's a documentary from an Italian perspective of the events. (Interesting to note that the commentator states there is no way the rocks could not have been charted correctly). Towards the end there is also a section of the salvage effort and environmental impact:

http://www.la7.it/atlantide/pvideo-stream?id=i542505

Captain Schittino has been doing some consulting work with the IBC

(Irish Broadcasting Company) helping with their coverage of the Olympic Sail Boat Race.

 

 

Irish Broadcasting Coverage of Olympic Sail Boat Race

 

http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/08/irishman-gives-expert-olympic-sailing-commentary-video/

Freaking awesome!

"Watched out for the pole, almost got klacked in the ^&*$ head"

It still amazes me that some people are prepared to believe the Media`s view of this accident without the Real Facts! how many in recent days have failed to grasp that the planned route was the route the ship was on until the final minutes and where it was half a mile off course! and we still do not know the reason as to why it was that half mile off course and may not know for some time to come if ever.

 

Specualtion and assumptions are driving this thread by people who cannot see the wood for the trees ... :eek:

 

Max .... you seem to have convinved yourself that Schettino will get the 2500 years or so that the Media claim he will be given despite having no actual reliable backed up facts.

 

"With an arrogant, know everything captain"

 

Ah you know this for sure then ? did not realise you knew Francesco so well!

Sidari, at least I said it was my opinion. Smurfette is the one who obviously knows Francesco well. She was obviously there since she knows he is one of the best captains around and she knows that it was not only not his fault but she knows it was the other officers fault because they did'nt tell him he was too close and was going to hit the rocks.

Now , she did'nt tell us she was there, I'm just assuming because she has stated all these "facts" but she has'nt told us "how" she knows all this.

I never said he should get 2500 years. Geeze, you and Smurf seem to think he was punished enough already, a month or 2 at home with his wife and daughter?

I would hope he at least gets enough to give him enough time to realize he ruined his own privileged life as a Capt on a luxurious cruise ship. No, I am not that confident in the legal system that he will get that and it would'nt completely surprise me if he gets another job on the bridge of another cruise ship, but not as Captain, no cruise line could take that publicity.

Max ... yes you did say it was your opinion

"Geeze, you and Smurf seem to think he was punished enough already"

Now where did i say that ?

Smurf is in my opinion just trying to get people to understand that there is more than just a ship hitting a rock involved in this incident nothing is ever that straighforward, with far more reaching problems that will i believe be brought out in the fullness of time.

In any Accident there are always a number of things that begin a chain of events that culminate in the horror that is the accident, Concorde is a good case in point in more recent history.

Italian justice is known to be slow with some cases taking 10 years to come to trial, it is their way and no amount of comments on a cruise board from people who know little or even less about the accident is going to change how the Italians operate their system.

The Investigators may well want to interview every person who was on Concordia that evening, can you imagine just how long that is going to take as well as investigating the why`s and the how`s and the real reason Concordia ended up where it did.

While it is understandable for people to want to see justice to be done they also have to accept that not everything so far is Black and White, there are many Grey areas that we as the cruising public do not know about and may well never get to know about.

Until the investigation is complete there can be no trial of those the court decide will have to face them.

Just because someone happens to have information that others do not have does not mean there is no credibility to that information.

Captain Schittino has been doing some consulting work with the IBC

(Irish Broadcasting Company) helping with their coverage of the Olympic Sail Boat Race.

 

 

Irish Broadcasting Coverage of Olympic Sail Boat Race

 

http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/08/irishman-gives-expert-olympic-sailing-commentary-video/

that was too funny. LOL. thanks for the laugh.

On this evenings news a story of an Irish Bank robber who handed himself in to police to claim the reward money .... :eek:

There is already a huge thread on this topic with many mavens in the fields of maritime safety, law both Italian, American and UK, camera angles and history. Perhaps you could consolidate this and the rest of us can get on with our busy lives.

I cant help but wonder how having 2 threads is in anyway stopping anyone from continuing with there lives...........

Just don't look at the 2 threadsAKK

On this evenings news a story of an Irish Bank robber who handed himself in to police to claim the reward money .... :eek:

Brilliant

"Geeze, you and Smurf seem to think he was punished enough already"

Now where did i say that ?

You did'nt say that, but you seem to be in the camp that thinks it's not Schettinos fault.

Smurf is in my opinion just trying to get people to understand that there is more than just a ship hitting a rock involved in this incident nothing is ever that straighforward, with far more reaching problems that will i believe be brought out in the fullness of time.

I understand "and appreciate" that others may know more about a situation and have a differing opinion than mine, and maybe I could be persuaded to acknowledge that they may be right and I may change my opinion also. Smurf is a great writer and obviously intelligent and I told that I thought she was. She is also certainly entitled to her opinion. However she has repeatedly insisted that it was not Schettinos fault and has said it was the junior officers fault many times over. She has said the junior officers have since said some unflattering things about Schettino, daredevil, devil may care, risk taker etc. (I would like to see these also, but I have not) I thought Schettino was the only one talking. She also has blamed Brozio. She has now upped the ante that now it was not only not Schettinos fault, but he has "fallen on his sword" to protect his crew who was actually at fault, and he is such a martyr that he is going to for sake his career to save the younger Brozios career. (spell check on Brozio) OMG this sounds so bizarre to me and IMO only a lover or very close familiy could even dream up this defense.

I and several others have asked her many times, "How do you know this", a very simple question but she ignores it.

I have not seen or heard any thing to make me feel it was not Schettinos fault except I do feel Costa has informally approved the sail bys. I also think there was some kind of rivalry between some captains about who was the most daring, and Schettino was very competetive.

If Smurf had some evidence that it was all the crews fault and not Schettino, she should post it up or tell us how she knows. She might win me and many others over.

I'm not just "out to get Schettino", it's just that every thing I have read or heard of makes me feel he is 90+ % responsible. I believe Costa unofficially approved the sail bys for publicity and entertainment(unofficial is so if any thing does go wrong, it's the captains fault) but Schettino is still responsible , no body made him do it. This is also why I don't think Smurfs 'whisle blower' idea works in the real world. Jr office goes to management, "the captain is too risky, he gets to close to the island" Costa says "we'll look into it". Costa call the capt and says 'joe' is complaining that you get to close to the island, has he been a trouble maker for you? Do we need to find another job for him?

Of course I know none of this but these are real scenario possibilities that I have seen in my lifetime,

"Geeze, you and Smurf seem to think he was punished enough already"

 

Now where did i say that ?

 

You did'nt say that, but you seem to be in the camp that thinks it's not Schettinos fault.

 

Smurf is in my opinion just trying to get people to understand that there is more than just a ship hitting a rock involved in this incident nothing is ever that straighforward, with far more reaching problems that will i believe be brought out in the fullness of time.

 

I understand "and appreciate" that others may know more about a situation and have a differing opinion than mine, and maybe I could be persuaded to acknowledge that they may be right and I may change my opinion also. Smurf is a great writer and obviously intelligent and I told that I thought she was. She is also certainly entitled to her opinion. However she has repeatedly insisted that it was not Schettinos fault and has said it was the junior officers fault many times over. She has said the junior officers have since said some unflattering things about Schettino, daredevil, devil may care, risk taker etc. (I would like to see these also, but I have not) I thought Schettino was the only one talking. She also has blamed Brozio. She has now upped the ante that now it was not only not Schettinos fault, but he has "fallen on his sword" to protect his crew who was actually at fault, and he is such a martyr that he is going to for sake his career to save the younger Brozios career. (spell check on Brozio) OMG this sounds so bizarre to me and IMO only a lover or very close familiy could even dream up this defense.

I and several others have asked her many times, "How do you know this", a very simple question but she ignores it.

I have not seen or heard any thing to make me feel it was not Schettinos fault except I do feel Costa has informally approved the sail bys. I also think there was some kind of rivalry between some captains about who was the most daring, and Schettino was very competetive.

If Smurf had some evidence that it was all the crews fault and not Schettino, she should post it up or tell us how she knows. She might win me and many others over.

I'm not just "out to get Schettino", it's just that every thing I have read or heard of makes me feel he is 90+ % responsible. I believe Costa unofficially approved the sail bys for publicity and entertainment(unofficial is so if any thing does go wrong, it's the captains fault) but Schettino is still responsible , no body made him do it. This is also why I don't think Smurfs 'whisle blower' idea works in the real world. Jr office goes to management, "the captain is too risky, he gets to close to the island" Costa says "we'll look into it". Costa call the capt and says 'joe' is complaining that you get to close to the island, has he been a trouble maker for you? Do we need to find another job for him?

Of course I know none of this but these are real scenario possibilities that I have seen in my lifetime,

I agree with much of your remarks. Your commentary reinforces my considered suspicion that Smurf is a created person or persons who are connected with Costa Cruise Lines.

I also think that if a captain is pulling a risky record setting sail by that he has done numerous times before, (of which the whole crew may be holding their breath and bracing themselves) it may be a big mistake to shout at the capt to tell him to slow down and/or turn the boat. He's pulled this off plenty of times and never hit any thing so a capt may not appreciate his crew freakin out while his driving needs 100% concentration.

I don't think any junior officer would risk their career and "dare" to get that close. Call it (over) confidence or arrogance but he should'nt be doing it when he has 4000 people depending on him with their lives.

Wow! I don't think I'm reading the same posts by Smurf that you, and some others, are. I have never had the impression that she was saying it is not Schettinos fault (if indeed fault can be placed), she has only offered alternative scenariors and taking it as a defense of Schettino only happens if some statements are taken in isolation and out of context. I see all of these scenarios as possiblities in the "real world" just as your take on the whistleblower scenario exists in the "real world." Much as we might like it to be a "right or wrong" situation, I think we are all mature enough to know that the "real world" is nothing but gray.

Incidentally, I am going to be in Civi in December and have thought about taking a detour to Giglio. Anyone else considered it, or would advise against it?

Regards,

MorganMars

"Geeze, you and Smurf seem to think he was punished enough already"

 

I understand "and appreciate" that others may know more about a situation and have a differing opinion than mine, and maybe I could be persuaded to acknowledge that they may be right and I may change my opinion also. Smurf is a great writer and obviously intelligent and I told that I thought she was. She is also certainly entitled to her opinion. However she has repeatedly insisted that it was not Schettinos fault and has said it was the junior officers fault many times over. She has said the junior officers have since said some unflattering things about Schettino, daredevil, devil may care, risk taker etc. (I would like to see these also, but I have not) I thought Schettino was the only one talking. She also has blamed Brozio. She has now upped the ante that now it was not only not Schettinos fault, but he has "fallen on his sword" to protect his crew who was actually at fault, and he is such a martyr that he is going to for sake his career to save the younger Brozios career. (spell check on Brozio) OMG this sounds so bizarre to me and IMO only a lover or very close familiy could even dream up this defense.

I and several others have asked her many times, "How do you know this", a very simple question but she ignores it.

I have not seen or heard any thing to make me feel it was not Schettinos fault except I do feel Costa has informally approved the sail bys. I also think there was some kind of rivalry between some captains about who was the most daring, and Schettino was very competetive.

If Smurf had some evidence that it was all the crews fault and not Schettino, she should post it up or tell us how she knows. She might win me and many others over.

I'm not just "out to get Schettino", it's just that every thing I have read or heard of makes me feel he is 90+ % responsible. I believe Costa unofficially approved the sail bys for publicity and entertainment(unofficial is so if any thing does go wrong, it's the captains fault) but Schettino is still responsible , no body made him do it. This is also why I don't think Smurfs 'whisle blower' idea works in the real world. Jr office goes to management, "the captain is too risky, he gets to close to the island" Costa says "we'll look into it". Costa call the capt and says 'joe' is complaining that you get to close to the island, has he been a trouble maker for you? Do we need to find another job for him?

Of course I know none of this but these are real scenario possibilities that I have seen in my lifetime,

 

Incidentally, I am going to be in Civi in December and have thought about taking a detour to Giglio. Anyone else considered it, or would advise against it?

 

Regards,

MorganMars

If you're that close, make the trip to the island.

And yes, I thought about going. Unfortunately a couple of situations here at home prevented me from making the trip. Now the rest of my year is booked up.

" Your commentary reinforces my considered suspicion that Smurf is a created person or persons who are connected with Costa Cruise Lines. "

I have not seen any thing that she has said that IMO helps to make Costa look any better. The only person that she seems to be trying to protect is Schettino. That's why I think she is either a lover, a family member, very good friend or a paid professional on his legal defense team.

If Schettino did no wrong but all of rest of the bridge officers were to blame, how does that help Costa?

Schtroumpfette doesn't bother me. Once you understand the premise that her / his motive here is to stir the pot then all's well. Haven't quite figured out the reasoning behind it. I've never, ever seen this sort of pretense and waffling -- not even by seasoned politicians. Seems clear there is a hidden agenda. I thought of many possibilities at first -- paid shill, focus group, troll, not going to wrack my brain out trying to figure it out though. :cool:

" Your commentary reinforces my considered suspicion that Smurf is a created person or persons who are connected with Costa Cruise Lines. "

 

I have not seen any thing that she has said that IMO helps to make Costa look any better. The only person that she seems to be trying to protect is Schettino. That's why I think she is either a lover, a family member, very good friend or a paid professional on his legal defense team.

If Schettino did no wrong but all of rest of the bridge officers were to blame, how does that help Costa?

Schtroumpfette doesn't bother me. Once you understand the premise that her / his motive here is to stir the pot then all's well. Haven't quite figured out the reasoning behind it. I've never, ever seen this sort of pretense and waffling -- not even by seasoned politicians. Seems clear there is a hidden agenda. I thought of many possibilities at first -- paid shill, focus group, troll, not going to wrack my brain out trying to figure it out though. :cool:

I've been mulling over the same things and I'm leaning towards multiple persons (or personalities ? LOL) all taking a crack at it. That's why I posted the photo of Costa's London office. Maybe that's Smurf Central. :D

It still amazes me that some people are prepared to believe the Media`s view of this accident without the Real Facts! how many in recent days have failed to grasp that the planned route was the route the ship was on until the final minutes and where it was half a mile off course! and we still do not know the reason as to why it was that half mile off course and may not know for some time to come if ever.

 

Specualtion and assumptions are driving this thread by people who cannot see the wood for the trees ... :eek:

 

Max .... you seem to have convinved yourself that Schettino will get the 2500 years or so that the Media claim he will be given despite having no actual reliable backed up facts.

 

"With an arrogant, know everything captain"

 

Ah you know this for sure then ? did not realise you knew Francesco so well!

I am new to this forum and did not mean to offend anyone by questioning Smurfette. Many of the points she's raised have crossed my mind. She did, however, make rather "black and white" statements in her last post... perhaps only to stir the discussion pot, as someone else mentioned. But I truly am interested to know if there is reliable information that supports what she said.

Ya'll are wrong. CS is taking a debate class and using the skills learned there on this thread.:rolleyes::D

I think CS feels that it's important to teach us how to think as CS does, beyond just what we see.

For me, it just gone on too long and is to repetitious, to the point where I barely glance at the posts.

This post is not meant to be critical of CS tho it may seem that it is. CS is entitled to express an opinion just as any of us are.

Ya'll are wrong. CS is taking a debate class and using the skills learned there on this thread.:rolleyes::D

I have been thinking back and remembering that someone in the earliest discussions here had suggested that when Costa began to disassociate themselves from Schettino, it was not the usual response for a company to take. They said that it was a high risk damage control strategy that would open Costa up to questions regarding their corporate structure, how they pick their captains, why other crew members didn't question the captains decisions, etc., etc., etc.

I am no fan of Schettino. I cannot understand his, to me, disgraceful actions that night. It does appear at this point, though, that Costa's strategy was the right one, since everyone is focused on Schettino and very little attention has been paid to other possible contributing factors until the posts of the last few days and it still seems to be hard to let go of the picture of Schettino as the one and only villain in the piece. But, I think that we would be wise to at least consider the alternatives.

Having been a captain, I always have a mariners perspective on a cruise which may offer me some advantage in a crisis situation but, even so, some of my mariner friends won't step foot on a cruise ship because of the perceived safety issues. They would rather cross the Atlantic in a 35' sailboat than risk being on a cruise ship that is "too big to fail", under the control of someone they don't know if they can trust or not, and with 4,000 people that are supposed to be able to abandon ship in 30 minutes.

What I am trying to say, is that it won't hurt for us to keep an open mind about some of the things besides the captain that may have contributed to this disaster. I doubt that we know the half of it.

Regards,

MorganMars

I have been thinking back and remembering that someone in the earliest discussions here had suggested that when Costa began to disassociate themselves from Schettino, it was not the usual response for a company to take. They said that it was a high risk damage control strategy that would open Costa up to questions regarding their corporate structure, how they pick their captains, why other crew members didn't question the captains decisions, etc., etc., etc.

 

I am no fan of Schettino. I cannot understand his, to me, disgraceful actions that night. It does appear at this point, though, that Costa's strategy was the right one, since everyone is focused on Schettino and very little attention has been paid to other possible contributing factors until the posts of the last few days and it still seems to be hard to let go of the picture of Schettino as the one and only villain in the piece. But, I think that we would be wise to at least consider the alternatives.

 

Having been a captain, I always have a mariners perspective on a cruise which may offer me some advantage in a crisis situation but, even so, some of my mariner friends won't step foot on a cruise ship because of the perceived safety issues. They would rather cross the Atlantic in a 35' sailboat than risk being on a cruise ship that is "too big to fail", under the control of someone they don't know if they can trust or not, and with 4,000 people that are supposed to be able to abandon ship in 30 minutes.

 

What I am trying to say, is that it won't hurt for us to keep an open mind about some of the things besides the captain that may have contributed to this disaster. I doubt that we know the half of it.

 

Regards,

MorganMars

True that. But beating a horse that's run its course... :D

I said way back in the beginning I didn't like how Costa handled this. Several things didn't sit well with me. I see them bearing some responsibility in this. I can only hope the courts do too.

Is'nt the captain held responsible for the safety of the ship? Can corporate office order him to do anything unsafe?

At my work, we have rules as to how to do a job safe. This often makes the job more difficult and taks 10X longer. Of course, the bosses don't want to say it's ok, they don't want to know how we did it, we often do it the easy way and get it done much faster. We are not risking anyone but ourselves but if we would get hurt, the bosses would say we were not doing it according to policy; but we are not risking others.

I appreciate Captains that want to make our cruise more interesting and take us closer to interesting sights. I think the cruise lines know this also. I also believe most of us always thought the captain and crew were professionals who knew exactly what they were doing and certainly would not risk all these passengers and the billion dollar ship they were responsible for. I never realized these huge, luxurious ships could have captains who were just taking a chance. I've never heard of this happening just because of a "Sail By". Has any one else?

Unfortunately, if you like sail bys, they may be over for a little while because Concordia pushed it beyond the limits and I'd think the cruise lines and captains would think 'this is not a good time to take any chances.

Does any one think Costa ordered Concordia to sail so close to Giglio in January at 9:30PM or so without even announcing to the passengers to "check Giglio out" through the window?

Assuming not, I guess Costa could be held responsible because they trusted, hired and promoted Schettino to captain.

I don't believe it was a factor at all but some have said the Concordia had some electrical issues, maybe other problems before the crash into the rocks. If this is true , I'm sure the capt. would have known about them. If they were any factor at all, it was an even dumber move to decide to do a daring sail by at night with a ship that had problems.

I mean, come on, does any one think Schettino was directed to zoom in there real close to Giglio at dark; and for what reason? the passengers did'nt even know they were close to land, did they? Was it announced?

I am such a rookie at this as compared to so many of you here. I get so envious when I see all the cruises you've been on and have booked for the future. I see former captains posting here.

What am I missing? Can some one please just give me "some for instances" of how or why Costa could be held responsible , especially if it could be gross negligence, other than the few things I mentioned above? Could Unheeded complaints about the captain be one? Have there been other cruise ship disasters just because they went to close to land, deliberately for a "sail by" ?

Schettino requested to go to manual control once the severity of the situation was understood, which means the wrong course was entered into the autopilot...who programmed the autopilot before the ship left Civitavecchia.....Schettino, Ambrosio...or someone else?

According to the presentation given by the Italian Maritime Investigative Body on Marine Accidents in London on 18th May, the quote above is incorrect. Captain Schettino took the con well before the severity of the situation was understood. He took the con before the situation had developed.

From that presentation:

At 2137, Captain Schettino had the con. The presentation doesn't state at which time Captain Schettion took the con, but it does state that at 2137 he did have the con. At this stage it doesn't matter if he physically has the helm; he is responsible for the ship's course and will issue order to the ship's helmsman.

At 2145 the collision took place. By this time Captain Schettino had the con for at least 7 to 8 minutes before the collision; that is plenty of time to realise he is on a collision course (by looking at the electronic navigation chart) and make an avoiding turn.

VP