CLIA has ordered a ‘Industry Operational Safety Review

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#21
56 Posts
Joined Oct 2011
The first step is getting the IMO to change their goofball regulations... We have a bunch of suits sitting in a cushy office in London who have no idea what they're doing. Maybe if they spent some time in the awful conditions that some of our Seafarers are being held hostage in by Somali pirates we'll get some welcome change from those suits. But that's not really relevant to this conversation, just my rant...

Now, the issue is you have people writing regulations when they hardly spent any time on any vessel. I know the industry can do better than what it's allowed to do, they have the right people.
On merchant vessels half the rules go out the window and our their internal audits were far more structured and had a clearer goal describing what's necessary. The IMO dances around as any UN organization does, accomplishing nothing.

Here's a question for everyone: Do you trust an organization that preaches safety, but turns a blind eye to seafarers that have been held as hostages, threatened with murder, beat up, and even had limbs severed, with hardly anything being said about it by these supposed guardians and lawmakers of the sea?
I'll keep my answer a secret...
#22
Barbados
26,596 Posts
Joined May 2007
Originally posted by AirStang7
The first step is getting the IMO to change their goofball regulations... We have a bunch of suits sitting in a cushy office in London who have no idea what they're doing. Maybe if they spent some time in the awful conditions that some of our Seafarers are being held hostage in by Somali pirates we'll get some welcome change from those suits. But that's not really relevant to this conversation, just my rant...

Now, the issue is you have people writing regulations when they hardly spent any time on any vessel. I know the industry can do better than what it's allowed to do, they have the right people.
On merchant vessels half the rules go out the window and our their internal audits were far more structured and had a clearer goal describing what's necessary. The IMO dances around as any UN organization does, accomplishing nothing.

Here's a question for everyone: Do you trust an organization that preaches safety, but turns a blind eye to seafarers that have been held as hostages, threatened with murder, beat up, and even had limbs severed, with hardly anything being said about it by these supposed guardians and lawmakers of the sea?
I'll keep my answer a secret...
Such international organisations exist in that weird other-world of idealistic Political Correctness
where everyone theoretically does as they should
-but not as humanity has been acting (true-to-form) for the last few millenia!

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#23
56 Posts
Joined Oct 2011
Originally posted by aplmac
Such international organisations exist in that weird other-world of idealistic Political Correctness
where everyone theoretically does as they should
-but not as humanity has been acting (true-to-form) for the last few millenia!

.
Yeah, maybe I'm expecting too much. Though now that I'm in aviation which is also loaded with government regulation, but it seems to make more sense. Probably because the people writing these rules actually seem to know what they're talking about.
#24
Barbados
26,596 Posts
Joined May 2007
Originally posted by AirStang7
Yeah, maybe I'm expecting too much.
Though now that I'm in aviation which is also loaded with government regulation, but it seems to make more sense.
Probably because the people writing these rules actually seem to know what they're talking about.
Aviation safety has to be taken more seriously than other modes of transportation
because planes crash very quickly, plus there ain't no floating around or waiting by the side of the freeway
until help arrives.

Lusitania sank very quickly -in 18 minutes
but I think most aircraft crash in more like 18 secs (OK maybe a bit longer).

__________________________


Bear in mind what Sammy Davis Jr. quipped, when asked about his travel preferences...

Q: Ship or Plane, Sammy?
A: Let me put it this way,fella...I can swim a little, but I can't fly at all.


Sammy put it in perspective for us.
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#25
Missouri City, TX, USA
463 Posts
Joined Sep 2000
Originally posted by AirStang7
Yeah, maybe I'm expecting too much. Though now that I'm in aviation which is also loaded with government regulation, but it seems to make more sense. Probably because the people writing these rules actually seem to know what they're talking about.
I agree with this assessment of IMO. Lots of good intentions, but common sense and political correctness get in the way. Asside from the piracy issue, the recent STCW, ISM, and ISPS conventions have only made a lot of work for auditors and inspectors who go over documents and paperwork that actually takes time away from those who are trying to get the job done. The thrust of these conventions is to find out who to blame when something goes wrong, not to prevent it from happening in the first place.
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Love ships and the sea. Graduated from U.S. Merchant Marine Academy in 1965 and have been sailing since then, currently hold an Unlimited Master's License with the U.S.C.G. with STCW-95 endorsements, also endorsed by Panama, Malta, St.Vincent who now have larger merchant fleets than the United States. I am now semi-retired but work as a relief for Mercy Ships.
#26
Barbados
26,596 Posts
Joined May 2007
Originally posted by captainmcd
Aside from the piracy issue,
the recent STCW, ISM, and ISPS conventions have only made a lot of work for auditors and inspectors who go over documents and paperwork that actually takes time away from those who are trying to get the job done.

The thrust of these conventions is to find out who to blame when something goes wrong,
not to prevent it
from happening
in the first place.
Aahh, curative medicine as opposed to preventive.
.
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#27
56 Posts
Joined Oct 2011
Originally posted by aplmac
Aviation safety has to be taken more seriously than other modes of transportation
because planes crash very quickly, plus there ain't no floating around or waiting by the side of the freeway
until help arrives.

Lusitania sank very quickly -in 18 minutes
but I think most aircraft crash in more like 18 secs (OK maybe a bit longer).

__________________________


Bear in mind what Sammy Davis Jr. quipped, when asked about his travel preferences...

Q: Ship or Plane, Sammy?
A: Let me put it this way,fella...I can swim a little, but I can't fly at all.


Sammy put it in perspective for us.
In the states we do an OK job here with the FAA for the most part. Europe has the JAA (Joint Aviation Authority) which is very much UN like in how it handles situations. They're all about the process and not about the final product. For example to get your license in the EU through the JAA you will sit through 10 or so writtens for each rating. Yet the actual practical tests are very simple. Now they've formed a new organization, the "EASA" (European Aviation Safety Agency) which I guess is supposed to be better who really knows. If they model it more after the FAA or one of the first world Asian authorities it'll probably make a difference but don't hold your breath with 'international governance'.
Back to the IMO though, as long as they have someone to scapegoat they're doing their job more than adequately. You want something done about piracy? You'll get a pretty piece of paper that sounds tough. Maybe some cute banners to fly but that's about it. SOLAS needs an update? Some things about fire codes that have been done already by companies own initiatives, but they'll still take credit and take a nice pat on the back.
#28
Barbados
26,596 Posts
Joined May 2007
I just came across MarcyN's photo on the Cruisecritic Photo Gallery

showing two Carnival ships --one young one old--
fitted with completely different lifeboat launching regimes
. Ancient and modern




At left is an older ship where lifeboats are launched from top deck
looking like a scary 80 ft. drop to the water level while you dangle on the end of long ropes
-should be a fun ride down, what do you think?

At right is Carnival Magic
, showing the new lifeboat system
where ships are now designed with lifeboat decks much closer to the water,
positioned under that overhang, where they are already over the water.


.
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#29
592 Posts
Joined Jan 2012
Originally posted by AirStang7
In the states we do an OK job here with the FAA for the most part. Europe has the JAA (Joint Aviation Authority) which is very much UN like in how it handles situations. They're all about the process and not about the final product. For example to get your license in the EU through the JAA you will sit through 10 or so writtens for each rating. Yet the actual practical tests are very simple. Now they've formed a new organization, the "EASA" (European Aviation Safety Agency) which I guess is supposed to be better who really knows. If they model it more after the FAA or one of the first world Asian authorities it'll probably make a difference but don't hold your breath with 'international governance'.
Back to the IMO though, as long as they have someone to scapegoat they're doing their job more than adequately. You want something done about piracy? You'll get a pretty piece of paper that sounds tough. Maybe some cute banners to fly but that's about it. SOLAS needs an update? Some things about fire codes that have been done already by companies own initiatives, but they'll still take credit and take a nice pat on the back.
Your opinion please http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/25...eping-texting/
#30
Barbados
26,596 Posts
Joined May 2007
Originally posted by Keel Haul
Your opinion please http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/25...eping-texting/
Yeaahh, that's not an ideal situation but at least the guys in the ATC tower
are not the guys at the helm of the various craft they are guiding and controlling
so this is a bit like comparing apples and oranges, relative to the Concordia situation
where the "pilot" himself malfunctioned
by "flying his plane" too close to the Giglio rocks, regardless of what Tower instructed him to do.

Nevertheless, something has to be done about lax ATC personnel getting so bored they sleep,text whatever!
-don't get me wrong on this..
.
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#32
Connecticut
1,892 Posts
Joined Mar 2010
Originally posted by AirStang7
The first step is getting the IMO to change their goofball regulations... We have a bunch of suits sitting in a cushy office in London who have no idea what they're doing. Maybe if they spent some time in the awful conditions that some of our Seafarers are being held hostage in by Somali pirates we'll get some welcome change from those suits. But that's not really relevant to this conversation, just my rant...

Now, the issue is you have people writing regulations when they hardly spent any time on any vessel. I know the industry can do better than what it's allowed to do, they have the right people.
On merchant vessels half the rules go out the window and our their internal audits were far more structured and had a clearer goal describing what's necessary. The IMO dances around as any UN organization does, accomplishing nothing.

Here's a question for everyone: Do you trust an organization that preaches safety, but turns a blind eye to seafarers that have been held as hostages, threatened with murder, beat up, and even had limbs severed, with hardly anything being said about it by these supposed guardians and lawmakers of the sea?
I'll keep my answer a secret...


Excellently put Sir!

You will be happy to know that some lines, countries including the US, France and the UK and others are now carrying secruity forces in some waters......IE Pirate waters. This is over the office fools of the IMO objections.

These seciurty forces consist mostly of retire specail forcesand have been very successfull. Image being a pirate climbing up the side of a vessel and finding a US Navy seal standing there with thier *TOYS*........LOL


AKK
#33
Connecticut
1,892 Posts
Joined Mar 2010
OK..I have read alot of interesting and good ideas..........now...we have actually made it 31 posts and on one as yet posted about even after all the Cruise ship issues of the last 2 years.......they still don't want to see anymore time or effort being placed on the Muster drills.......

After all ......they should not be reqiured to educate themselves to possibly save their own lives!


I figuire it will happen soon though!


AKK
#34
616 Posts
Joined Sep 2005
After all ......they should not be reqiured to educate themselves to possibly save their own lives!
Perfect....

A ships Master will do what they can to keep everyone safe... but if a cruise ship's passengers aren't going to take any responsibility for themselves, what should the Master do? Send them ashore if they don't turn up for muster drill? (In my opinion, yes. With no compensation.)

VP
#35
Bolton / Accrington, Lancashire, UK
7,041 Posts
Joined Feb 2008
VP ... Already been done on HAL i believe and so it should!
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