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  #981  
Old June 20th, 2012, 07:20 PM
MorganMars MorganMars is offline
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Here is a link to an article written in response to the drug test results on Schettino, but of greater interest for our current discussion are points regarding empty chair defense, non negligent error in judgment and maneuver domain.

http://americanadmiraltybooks.blogsp...t-results.html

Regards,
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidari View Post
"This is a deviation from the itinerary's planned course that sends the Costa officers (and coporate managent) on a "lark of their own" for personal reasons"

Uni ... By all means put me right if what i say is wrong but the above quote is made wrong by the preliminary enquiry which someone else has already pointed out to you with regard to the intended route! and the report is quite clear that the ship intended to pass Giglio that night on that intended route which can be proved by the fact that the route was charted.

Because this route has previously been used and more than likely by other Costa ships though we still yet have to see any proof, the fact is that "Custom and Practice" was already being used to sail this route despite Costa denying it.

Where you have an arguement is the 0.5 miles that the ship was off the Intended Custom and Practice route, to continue the arguement with regard to the ship being in the channel between Giglio and the Mainland is pointless.

What will also be interesting will be to see who shouts the Loudest if and when the courts hand out a sentance that people here think is wrong!
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  #982  
Old June 21st, 2012, 12:10 AM
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The other day I could see workers on the top deck of the ship. Now I know what they were doing.

A barge has moved next to the liner and the ship's radar has been removed from the upper deck. The swimming pool slide and the large yellow funnel will be taken off in coming weeks, salvage workers and local officials said.
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  #983  
Old June 21st, 2012, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeBeach View Post
The other day I could see workers on the top deck of the ship. Now I know what they were doing.

A barge has moved next to the liner and the ship's radar has been removed from the upper deck. The swimming pool slide and the large yellow funnel will be taken off in coming weeks, salvage workers and local officials said.
The majority of the work so far has been installing the tie points for the restraining cables that will help to prevent the hulk from slipping into deep water.

It makes sense to remove easily removed stuff from the upper decks and thus reduce top hamper. This also has a remarkable affect on the metacentric height of the vessel.

I also am now quite certain that the caissons (more properly sponsons) to be attached to the hull will cover the hole in the turn of the bilge.

The pace of work on the site is seeming to pick up and we may see more visible progress over the next few weeks.

Doc
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  #984  
Old June 21st, 2012, 06:38 AM
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Webcam website is working like crap today!

Won't refresh automatically, despite my freeing-up all the blockers on my Firefox browser.
-if I manually Reload the page, I get the image but otherwise it goes blank!

........................


Two minutes later...it's working normally: must have been a temp. glitch at their end?


10 mins. later: still playing up now and then... what's up??



.
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  #985  
Old June 21st, 2012, 07:30 AM
Tonka's Skipper Tonka's Skipper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorganMars View Post
Here is a link to an article written in response to the drug test results on Schettino, but of greater interest for our current discussion are points regarding empty chair defense, non negligent error in judgment and maneuver domain.

http://americanadmiraltybooks.blogsp...t-results.html

Regards,
MorganMars

Great artcale Morgan.....brings up a few things right off.

1. Was there a licenced pilot for that area?

2. Did the ICGW reqiure a pilot for those waters?

2. Codes and standards = Standards of the trade and practices, and it seems this will be part of the legal issues.

3. As noted the defense has , so far only brought up the idea the rock/reef was not charted. I still feel the main issue is why was he that close to shore, a 1/2mile closer then his showboat course and is that then negligent?


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Last edited by Tonka's Skipper; June 21st, 2012 at 07:32 AM.
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  #986  
Old June 21st, 2012, 08:22 AM
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1. Was there a licenced pilot for that area?

Tonka .... why would a pilot need to be onboard a ship that was in effect just passing an island? having passed close by a few in various places i cannot recall a pilot ever being taken onboard any of the ships. On a few occasions ships we have been onboard have left ports without a pilot onboard.

The only time i have seen a pilot board a ship is to enter a port or leave one.

Though this will rankle with some on cc, no one knows the waters around Italy better than Italian ship Captains and pilots! ... although on this occasion there was a severe error.

Soon the details of the Orange/Black box will be available.
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  #987  
Old June 21st, 2012, 09:18 AM
Tonka's Skipper Tonka's Skipper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidari View Post
1. Was there a licenced pilot for that area?

Tonka .... why would a pilot need to be onboard a ship that was in effect just passing an island? having passed close by a few in various places i cannot recall a pilot ever being taken onboard any of the ships. On a few occasions ships we have been onboard have left ports without a pilot onboard.

The only time i have seen a pilot board a ship is to enter a port or leave one.

Though this will rankle with some on cc, no one knows the waters around Italy better than Italian ship Captains and pilots! ... although on this occasion there was a severe error.

Soon the details of the Orange/Black box will be available.

Hey there Sideri!

I really didn't expect there to be a pilot nor did I expect that coast to have required pilotage.....I was just asking to be sure!


That articale was remarking/questioning about it!

AKK
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  #988  
Old June 22nd, 2012, 08:51 AM
RuthlessBoss RuthlessBoss is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeBeach View Post
The other day I could see workers on the top deck of the ship. Now I know what they were doing.

A barge has moved next to the liner and the ship's radar has been removed from the upper deck. The swimming pool slide and the large yellow funnel will be taken off in coming weeks, salvage workers and local officials said.
What site are you looking at to be able to tell this? I've got Last Salute and the Giglio one that shows a wide angle only.
I guess I'm spoiled with web cams of Florida where there's camera adjustments with scanning and closeups, not just one distance.
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  #989  
Old June 22nd, 2012, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuthlessBoss View Post
What site are you looking at to be able to tell this? I've got Last Salute and the Giglio one that shows a wide angle only.
I guess I'm spoiled with web cams of Florida where there's camera adjustments with scanning and closeups, not just one distance.
I would imagine one or the other of the above mentioned websites. I notice that the radar and the satellite domes are removed right now.

The level of work has really ramped up over the last couple of days. There is a lot of heavy equipment around the site right now. Even after dark, bright lights show near the stern of the hulk and one of the cranes is visible.

Doc
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  #990  
Old June 23rd, 2012, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post
3. As noted the defense has , so far only brought up the idea the rock/reef was not charted.
That won't even pass as a flimsy excuse, far less a reason!

The Med was the first body of water well known to sailors, going back a few Millenia now.
As already pointed out, this situation is Italian sailors in Italian seas
equipped with charts 100 x the accuracy of what I attach below.

Who are they kidding?

More likely the person at the helm should have been wearing his glasses that night!
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Attached Images
File Type: jpg chart.jpg (12.0 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg giglio_rock.jpg (17.5 KB, 17 views)
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  #991  
Old June 23rd, 2012, 08:03 AM
RuthlessBoss RuthlessBoss is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocF View Post
I would imagine one or the other of the above mentioned websites. I notice that the radar and the satellite domes are removed right now.

The level of work has really ramped up over the last couple of days. There is a lot of heavy equipment around the site right now. Even after dark, bright lights show near the stern of the hulk and one of the cranes is visible.

Doc
But, how are you seeing it? All we see is some equipment near the ship, but that's all I see due to the camera not focusing any closer. I guess it's better than nothing, but....
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  #992  
Old June 23rd, 2012, 10:26 AM
Tonka's Skipper Tonka's Skipper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aplmac View Post
That won't even pass as a flimsy excuse, far less a reason!

The Med was the first body of water well known to sailors, going back a few Millenia now.
As already pointed out, this situation is Italian sailors in Italian seas
equipped with charts 100 x the accuracy of what I attach below.

Who are they kidding?
More likely the person at the helm should have been wearing his glasses that night!
.



Aplmac.

I totally agree......The charts posted here show the rock (some call it a reef, but from what I can see on the chart..it looks like a rock sticking up to me!).

Well from which the helm is also a question..........was it a quartermaster within the wheelhouse that was actually steering the vessel(under the command of the Master or Duty Officer), if so, he may not have been able to see the rock from his position and it was dark out!. Also it was not his responsibility to see the rock or tell the Captain or duty officer.

Now if the Master was on the bridge or on the port wing, he may actually been controlling the the helm with a joy stick. Not to mention the Duty Officer who was supposed to be watching where the hell the vessel was going and if into danger, he was supposed to point that minor little fact to the Master.


Lastly to really doesn't matter if the rock was visible above the water surface, or fully charted.......IMHO, the vessel should never have been in that close to shore showboating!

Kinda like a 18 wheeler running on a go kart track! it can't be manuvered safely and plain should not be there.



AKK
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  #993  
Old June 23rd, 2012, 10:41 AM
MorganMars MorganMars is offline
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There actually was a case a few years ago of a Captain who was vindicated when it was shown that the rock he hit in the Med was not where indicated on the chart. I would surmise that Schettino knew of that case. It makes a convenient possible defense until it is disproved.

I did a yacht delivery once where two different GPS devices onboard gave two very different positions due to an operator error in matching the settings in one of the GPS units to the chart datum, so I have wondered if the same happened here. That would still be considered a navigational error with the commensurate liability, so please don't see this as support for Schettino. I have no respect for a Captain who would abandon his duty.

Regards,
MorganMars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aplmac View Post
That won't even pass as a flimsy excuse, far less a reason!

The Med was the first body of water well known to sailors, going back a few Millenia now.
As already pointed out, this situation is Italian sailors in Italian seas
equipped with charts 100 x the accuracy of what I attach below.

Who are they kidding?
More likely the person at the helm should have been wearing his glasses that night!
.
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  #994  
Old June 23rd, 2012, 10:56 AM
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Default More progress.....

Not sure if this has been posted already but this past week the mast, the giant 'C' for the name of the ship, the slide for the swimming pool and parts of the radar equipment were removed.

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...#ixzz1yd1DUCul
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  #995  
Old June 23rd, 2012, 11:57 AM
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Schettino stated that he took the helm and turned OFF all alarms and was steering the ship at about 16 knots when it hit the rock. I would imagine there would have been warning alarms going off because of the approaching rocks if Schettino hadn't turned them off...is that right? If that's all accurate....I can't imagine an excuse or scenario that would get him off the hot seat....but no doubt there is a team of lawyers trying to do just that.
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  #996  
Old June 23rd, 2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuthlessBoss View Post
But, how are you seeing it? All we see is some equipment near the ship, but that's all I see due to the camera not focusing any closer. I guess it's better than nothing, but....
The only answer I can give is that I know what I am looking at. I see the spud barge and its crane, the drill boat and other equipment. I have followed this sort of stuff for most of my life and I can usually identify the equipment from even the slightest view.

Doc
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  #997  
Old June 23rd, 2012, 01:37 PM
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Morgan .... was the case you refer to at Santorini? where the MS Sea Diamond hit a rock/reef that was charted in the wrong place, we were there recently and one of the bar owners told us that the ship has been towed to deep water before it sank.

The Greek government are still fighting the owners in order to have the ship raised and moved.

Tonka .... i believe the rock that is buried in the side of concordia was underwater and not visible from the surface.
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  #998  
Old June 23rd, 2012, 02:41 PM
Tonka's Skipper Tonka's Skipper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorganMars View Post
There actually was a case a few years ago of a Captain who was vindicated when it was shown that the rock he hit in the Med was not where indicated on the chart. I would surmise that Schettino knew of that case. It makes a convenient possible defense until it is disproved.

I did a yacht delivery once where two different GPS devices onboard gave two very different positions due to an operator error in matching the settings in one of the GPS units to the chart datum, so I have wondered if the same happened here. That would still be considered a navigational error with the commensurate liability, so please don't see this as support for Schettino. I have no respect for a Captain who would abandon his duty.

Regards,
MorganMars
Afternoon Morgan,


I totally agree..........as good as todays charts are........there are still errors and missing items.

There was a case 12 years ago or so, where going though Bussards bay channel to the Cape Cod Canel, the QE II was running at a fair turn of speed. The stern was squating, and hit a rock that was not properly marked for depth.

You hit on the just the reason a Master/Deck Officer never uses GPS close in shore and you never use just 1 navigation aid to help you navigate a vessel. If indeed the Master, turned off safety alarms, that is in my mind negelgence.

AKK
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  #999  
Old June 23rd, 2012, 02:43 PM
Tonka's Skipper Tonka's Skipper is offline
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Tonka .... i believe the rock that is buried in the side of concordia was underwater and not visible from the surface.[/quote]


Hi there Sideri.

That is very likely, when you look at the port hull side of the Concordia..........the damage and distorted/holed hull plating is almost all under the water line.

AKK
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  #1000  
Old June 23rd, 2012, 02:48 PM
Tonka's Skipper Tonka's Skipper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocF View Post
The only answer I can give is that I know what I am looking at. I see the spud barge and its crane, the drill boat and other equipment. I have followed this sort of stuff for most of my life and I can usually identify the equipment from even the slightest view.

Doc

I would say you are indeed correct Doc,

I would think they are removing all the deck sections/equipment, and possible the stack, so to not have wires, constructuion material, etc, catch on them during the recovery.

AKK
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