Concordia News: Please Post Here

Welcome to Cruise Critic! If you'd like to participate on our forums by joining in the conversation, please Register Now! Be sure to visit our FAMOUS Roll Call forums, where you can meet other cruisers sailing with you and share a tour or shore excursion and SAVE MONEY!

Costa Cruises
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
All times are GMT -4.
The time now is 03:55 PM.
Florida
486 Posts
Joined Aug 2009
Here is a link to an article written in response to the drug test results on Schettino, but of greater interest for our current discussion are points regarding empty chair defense, non negligent error in judgment and maneuver domain.

http://americanadmiraltybooks.blogsp...t-results.html

Regards,
MorganMars


Originally posted by sidari
"This is a deviation from the itinerary's planned course that sends the Costa officers (and coporate managent) on a "lark of their own" for personal reasons"

Uni ... By all means put me right if what i say is wrong but the above quote is made wrong by the preliminary enquiry which someone else has already pointed out to you with regard to the intended route! and the report is quite clear that the ship intended to pass Giglio that night on that intended route which can be proved by the fact that the route was charted.

Because this route has previously been used and more than likely by other Costa ships though we still yet have to see any proof, the fact is that "Custom and Practice" was already being used to sail this route despite Costa denying it.

Where you have an arguement is the 0.5 miles that the ship was off the Intended Custom and Practice route, to continue the arguement with regard to the ship being in the channel between Giglio and the Mainland is pointless.

What will also be interesting will be to see who shouts the Loudest if and when the courts hand out a sentance that people here think is wrong!
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature

Dolphin IV, Miami to Nassau
Carnival, Tampa to Grand Cayman and Cozumel
RCL, Jewel of the Seas, Transatlantic Eastbound
RCL, Jewel of the Seas, Tampa to Cozumel
NCL, Norwegian Jade, Eastern Med to Greece, Turkey and Italy in December, 2012
NCL, Norwegian Star, Transatlantic Westbound, Dover to Tampa, 2015
IN/AZ
21,794 Posts
Joined Jul 2005
The other day I could see workers on the top deck of the ship. Now I know what they were doing.

A barge has moved next to the liner and the ship's radar has been removed from the upper deck. The swimming pool slide and the large yellow funnel will be taken off in coming weeks, salvage workers and local officials said.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Micki
SC-MOS, 14C

Everyone loves Mustard!
Past Cruises- long list!


"Courage is being scared to death- but saddling up anyway."
Remember, money talks but CHOCOLATE sings!
Lynn Haven, Fl
2,736 Posts
Joined Mar 2007
Originally posted by SomeBeach
The other day I could see workers on the top deck of the ship. Now I know what they were doing.

A barge has moved next to the liner and the ship's radar has been removed from the upper deck. The swimming pool slide and the large yellow funnel will be taken off in coming weeks, salvage workers and local officials said.
The majority of the work so far has been installing the tie points for the restraining cables that will help to prevent the hulk from slipping into deep water.

It makes sense to remove easily removed stuff from the upper decks and thus reduce top hamper. This also has a remarkable affect on the metacentric height of the vessel.

I also am now quite certain that the caissons (more properly sponsons) to be attached to the hull will cover the hole in the turn of the bilge.

The pace of work on the site is seeming to pick up and we may see more visible progress over the next few weeks.

Doc
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature



I cruise for Warm Chocolate Melting Cake!
Barbados
26,596 Posts
Joined May 2007
Webcam website is working like crap today!

Won't refresh automatically, despite my freeing-up all the blockers on my Firefox browser.
-if I manually Reload the page, I get the image but otherwise it goes blank!

........................


Two minutes later...it's working normally: must have been a temp. glitch at their end?


10 mins. later: still playing up now and then... what's up??



.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
______________________

Connecticut
1,890 Posts
Joined Mar 2010
Originally posted by MorganMars
Here is a link to an article written in response to the drug test results on Schettino, but of greater interest for our current discussion are points regarding empty chair defense, non negligent error in judgment and maneuver domain.

http://americanadmiraltybooks.blogsp...t-results.html

Regards,
MorganMars

Great artcale Morgan.....brings up a few things right off.

1. Was there a licenced pilot for that area?

2. Did the ICGW reqiure a pilot for those waters?

2. Codes and standards = Standards of the trade and practices, and it seems this will be part of the legal issues.

3. As noted the defense has , so far only brought up the idea the rock/reef was not charted. I still feel the main issue is why was he that close to shore, a 1/2mile closer then his showboat course and is that then negligent?


AKK
Bolton / Accrington, Lancashire, UK
6,952 Posts
Joined Feb 2008
1. Was there a licenced pilot for that area?

Tonka .... why would a pilot need to be onboard a ship that was in effect just passing an island? having passed close by a few in various places i cannot recall a pilot ever being taken onboard any of the ships. On a few occasions ships we have been onboard have left ports without a pilot onboard.

The only time i have seen a pilot board a ship is to enter a port or leave one.

Though this will rankle with some on cc, no one knows the waters around Italy better than Italian ship Captains and pilots! ... although on this occasion there was a severe error.

Soon the details of the Orange/Black box will be available.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Small things Amuse Small Minds while Bigger Fools Look on.

Relax Unwind Be Yourself! =Ruby Princess.

YOU CAN`T APPRECIATE THE RAINBOW WITHOUT THE RAIN.
[email protected]

MSC Seaside December 2017 Caribbean
Majestic Princess 4th April 2017
MSC Orchestra November 2014 Venice to Dubai
MSC Divina November 2013 T.A. Venice to Miami
MSC Opera June 2013 Southampton to Norway
MSC Poesia November 2012 T.A Barcelona to Fort Lauderdale
NCL Jade April/May 2012 B2B Venice to Greek Islands
NCL Jade February 2012 Barcelona to Canary Islands
Costa Deliziosa December 2011 Savona to Savona
Mariner of the Seas May 2011Rome to Rome
Oasis of the Seas October 2010 Caribbean
Queen Victoria May 2010 Southampton to Southampton
Ruby Princess November 2009....
Vision of the Seas September 2009 Denmark to Norway
Brilliance of the Seas June 2009 Barcelon to Barcelona.
Ruby Princess November 2008 ....

Connecticut
1,890 Posts
Joined Mar 2010
Originally posted by sidari
1. Was there a licenced pilot for that area?

Tonka .... why would a pilot need to be onboard a ship that was in effect just passing an island? having passed close by a few in various places i cannot recall a pilot ever being taken onboard any of the ships. On a few occasions ships we have been onboard have left ports without a pilot onboard.

The only time i have seen a pilot board a ship is to enter a port or leave one.

Though this will rankle with some on cc, no one knows the waters around Italy better than Italian ship Captains and pilots! ... although on this occasion there was a severe error.

Soon the details of the Orange/Black box will be available.

Hey there Sideri!

I really didn't expect there to be a pilot nor did I expect that coast to have required pilotage.....I was just asking to be sure!


That articale was remarking/questioning about it!

AKK
St. Cloud, Fl
10,442 Posts
Joined Feb 2007
Originally posted by SomeBeach
The other day I could see workers on the top deck of the ship. Now I know what they were doing.

A barge has moved next to the liner and the ship's radar has been removed from the upper deck. The swimming pool slide and the large yellow funnel will be taken off in coming weeks, salvage workers and local officials said.
What site are you looking at to be able to tell this? I've got Last Salute and the Giglio one that shows a wide angle only.
I guess I'm spoiled with web cams of Florida where there's camera adjustments with scanning and closeups, not just one distance.
Lynn Haven, Fl
2,736 Posts
Joined Mar 2007
Originally posted by RuthlessBoss
What site are you looking at to be able to tell this? I've got Last Salute and the Giglio one that shows a wide angle only.
I guess I'm spoiled with web cams of Florida where there's camera adjustments with scanning and closeups, not just one distance.
I would imagine one or the other of the above mentioned websites. I notice that the radar and the satellite domes are removed right now.

The level of work has really ramped up over the last couple of days. There is a lot of heavy equipment around the site right now. Even after dark, bright lights show near the stern of the hulk and one of the cranes is visible.

Doc
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature



I cruise for Warm Chocolate Melting Cake!
Barbados
26,596 Posts
Joined May 2007
Originally posted by Tonka's Skipper
3. As noted the defense has , so far only brought up the idea the rock/reef was not charted.
That won't even pass as a flimsy excuse, far less a reason!

The Med was the first body of water well known to sailors, going back a few Millenia now.
As already pointed out, this situation is Italian sailors in Italian seas
equipped with charts 100 x the accuracy of what I attach below.

Who are they kidding?

More likely the person at the helm should have been wearing his glasses that night!
.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg chart.jpg (12.0 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg giglio_rock.jpg (17.5 KB, 18 views)
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
______________________

St. Cloud, Fl
10,442 Posts
Joined Feb 2007
Originally posted by DocF
I would imagine one or the other of the above mentioned websites. I notice that the radar and the satellite domes are removed right now.

The level of work has really ramped up over the last couple of days. There is a lot of heavy equipment around the site right now. Even after dark, bright lights show near the stern of the hulk and one of the cranes is visible.

Doc
But, how are you seeing it? All we see is some equipment near the ship, but that's all I see due to the camera not focusing any closer. I guess it's better than nothing, but....
Connecticut
1,890 Posts
Joined Mar 2010
Originally posted by Aplmac
That won't even pass as a flimsy excuse, far less a reason!

The Med was the first body of water well known to sailors, going back a few Millenia now.
As already pointed out, this situation is Italian sailors in Italian seas
equipped with charts 100 x the accuracy of what I attach below.

Who are they kidding?
More likely the person at the helm should have been wearing his glasses that night!
.



Aplmac.

I totally agree......The charts posted here show the rock (some call it a reef, but from what I can see on the chart..it looks like a rock sticking up to me!).

Well from which the helm is also a question..........was it a quartermaster within the wheelhouse that was actually steering the vessel(under the command of the Master or Duty Officer), if so, he may not have been able to see the rock from his position and it was dark out!. Also it was not his responsibility to see the rock or tell the Captain or duty officer.

Now if the Master was on the bridge or on the port wing, he may actually been controlling the the helm with a joy stick. Not to mention the Duty Officer who was supposed to be watching where the hell the vessel was going and if into danger, he was supposed to point that minor little fact to the Master.


Lastly to really doesn't matter if the rock was visible above the water surface, or fully charted.......IMHO, the vessel should never have been in that close to shore showboating!

Kinda like a 18 wheeler running on a go kart track! it can't be manuvered safely and plain should not be there.



AKK
Florida
486 Posts
Joined Aug 2009
There actually was a case a few years ago of a Captain who was vindicated when it was shown that the rock he hit in the Med was not where indicated on the chart. I would surmise that Schettino knew of that case. It makes a convenient possible defense until it is disproved.

I did a yacht delivery once where two different GPS devices onboard gave two very different positions due to an operator error in matching the settings in one of the GPS units to the chart datum, so I have wondered if the same happened here. That would still be considered a navigational error with the commensurate liability, so please don't see this as support for Schettino. I have no respect for a Captain who would abandon his duty.

Regards,
MorganMars

Originally posted by Aplmac
That won't even pass as a flimsy excuse, far less a reason!

The Med was the first body of water well known to sailors, going back a few Millenia now.
As already pointed out, this situation is Italian sailors in Italian seas
equipped with charts 100 x the accuracy of what I attach below.

Who are they kidding?
More likely the person at the helm should have been wearing his glasses that night!
.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature

Dolphin IV, Miami to Nassau
Carnival, Tampa to Grand Cayman and Cozumel
RCL, Jewel of the Seas, Transatlantic Eastbound
RCL, Jewel of the Seas, Tampa to Cozumel
NCL, Norwegian Jade, Eastern Med to Greece, Turkey and Italy in December, 2012
NCL, Norwegian Star, Transatlantic Westbound, Dover to Tampa, 2015
Fairfield County Connecticut
752 Posts
Joined Jun 2011
Not sure if this has been posted already but this past week the mast, the giant 'C' for the name of the ship, the slide for the swimming pool and parts of the radar equipment were removed.

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...#ixzz1yd1DUCul
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature


Past Cruises

Crown Princess - Southern Caribbean - Aruba, Curacao, Princess Cays - New Year's 2013
Royal Caribbean Liberty of the Seas - Transatlanctic - Ft. Lauderdale to Barcelona - Spring 2013
Celebrity Equinox - Mexico, Costa Rica, Panama, Colombia, Cayman Islands - New Year's Eve 2012
Royal Caribbean Explorer of the Seas - Bermuda - Spring 2012
Norwegian Pearl - Alaska Inside Passage - Fall 2011
Carnival Ecstasy - Bahamas - Spring 1996
Carnival Holiday - Bahamas - Spring 1983
Chandris Lines - Italian Riviera / Mediterranean / Greek Islands / Yugoslavia / Israel - Spring 1976
Raleigh, NC
514 Posts
Joined May 2011
Schettino stated that he took the helm and turned OFF all alarms and was steering the ship at about 16 knots when it hit the rock. I would imagine there would have been warning alarms going off because of the approaching rocks if Schettino hadn't turned them off...is that right? If that's all accurate....I can't imagine an excuse or scenario that would get him off the hot seat....but no doubt there is a team of lawyers trying to do just that.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Carnival: Mardi Gras '92, Fantasy '00, Sensation '00 & '03, Paradise '01, Dream '11 & '12, Ecstasy '12, Pride '14
Royal Caribbean: Mariner of the Seas '07, Freedom of the Seas '13

Lynn Haven, Fl
2,736 Posts
Joined Mar 2007
Originally posted by RuthlessBoss
But, how are you seeing it? All we see is some equipment near the ship, but that's all I see due to the camera not focusing any closer. I guess it's better than nothing, but....
The only answer I can give is that I know what I am looking at. I see the spud barge and its crane, the drill boat and other equipment. I have followed this sort of stuff for most of my life and I can usually identify the equipment from even the slightest view.

Doc
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature



I cruise for Warm Chocolate Melting Cake!
Bolton / Accrington, Lancashire, UK
6,952 Posts
Joined Feb 2008
Morgan .... was the case you refer to at Santorini? where the MS Sea Diamond hit a rock/reef that was charted in the wrong place, we were there recently and one of the bar owners told us that the ship has been towed to deep water before it sank.

The Greek government are still fighting the owners in order to have the ship raised and moved.

Tonka .... i believe the rock that is buried in the side of concordia was underwater and not visible from the surface.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Small things Amuse Small Minds while Bigger Fools Look on.

Relax Unwind Be Yourself! =Ruby Princess.

YOU CAN`T APPRECIATE THE RAINBOW WITHOUT THE RAIN.
[email protected]

MSC Seaside December 2017 Caribbean
Majestic Princess 4th April 2017
MSC Orchestra November 2014 Venice to Dubai
MSC Divina November 2013 T.A. Venice to Miami
MSC Opera June 2013 Southampton to Norway
MSC Poesia November 2012 T.A Barcelona to Fort Lauderdale
NCL Jade April/May 2012 B2B Venice to Greek Islands
NCL Jade February 2012 Barcelona to Canary Islands
Costa Deliziosa December 2011 Savona to Savona
Mariner of the Seas May 2011Rome to Rome
Oasis of the Seas October 2010 Caribbean
Queen Victoria May 2010 Southampton to Southampton
Ruby Princess November 2009....
Vision of the Seas September 2009 Denmark to Norway
Brilliance of the Seas June 2009 Barcelon to Barcelona.
Ruby Princess November 2008 ....

Connecticut
1,890 Posts
Joined Mar 2010
Originally posted by MorganMars
There actually was a case a few years ago of a Captain who was vindicated when it was shown that the rock he hit in the Med was not where indicated on the chart. I would surmise that Schettino knew of that case. It makes a convenient possible defense until it is disproved.

I did a yacht delivery once where two different GPS devices onboard gave two very different positions due to an operator error in matching the settings in one of the GPS units to the chart datum, so I have wondered if the same happened here. That would still be considered a navigational error with the commensurate liability, so please don't see this as support for Schettino. I have no respect for a Captain who would abandon his duty.

Regards,
MorganMars
Afternoon Morgan,


I totally agree..........as good as todays charts are........there are still errors and missing items.

There was a case 12 years ago or so, where going though Bussards bay channel to the Cape Cod Canel, the QE II was running at a fair turn of speed. The stern was squating, and hit a rock that was not properly marked for depth.

You hit on the just the reason a Master/Deck Officer never uses GPS close in shore and you never use just 1 navigation aid to help you navigate a vessel. If indeed the Master, turned off safety alarms, that is in my mind negelgence.

AKK
Connecticut
1,890 Posts
Joined Mar 2010
Tonka .... i believe the rock that is buried in the side of concordia was underwater and not visible from the surface.[/quote]


Hi there Sideri.

That is very likely, when you look at the port hull side of the Concordia..........the damage and distorted/holed hull plating is almost all under the water line.

AKK
Connecticut
1,890 Posts
Joined Mar 2010
Originally posted by DocF
The only answer I can give is that I know what I am looking at. I see the spud barge and its crane, the drill boat and other equipment. I have followed this sort of stuff for most of my life and I can usually identify the equipment from even the slightest view.

Doc

I would say you are indeed correct Doc,

I would think they are removing all the deck sections/equipment, and possible the stack, so to not have wires, constructuion material, etc, catch on them during the recovery.

AKK