SD I -July 14, Venice to Athens

[Jim Avery]

Originally Posted by frequent traveler

So nicely put. We have now booked 2 cruises on lines other than SD. If I am going to have to avoid the entitled brats and their brats it takes more space. And on one we will be sailing with the wonderful Captain Tysse again.

So sad but my SD addiction has been greatly tempered.
FT

Give our best to Captain Tysse. He is great. That will be a guaranteed trip to the Captain's Table for Yall. The Azamara Journey has been getting some good reviews and dont forget, Larry Pimentel, the former CEO of SeaDream is the Prez & CEO of Azamara. Lots of SeaDream influences there. We relate to your tempered addiction. We are not sorry, after reading of your brat troubles and the lack of responses, to have had to cancel November. Actually, am feeling a bit nervous for taking an expensive "crap shoot" on the Costa Rica trip. We are booked on the first full CR voyage after the transit voyages. Just right for Mr. B and his entourage of friends and families to show up.

[abenaki]

Don't expect a week on Azamara to be anything like a week on SeaDream however, it has absolutely no comparison. The loud kids will be replaced by loud obnoxious adults, is that any better? And all in the surroundings of old tired English Manor House.... Good luck with it.

[zqvol]

Originally Posted by abenaki

Don't expect a week on Azamara to be anything like a week on SeaDream however, it has absolutely no comparison. The loud kids will be replaced by loud obnoxious adults, is that any better? And all in the surroundings of old tired English Manor House.... Good luck with it.

You but you weren't with us on our last voyage and it can't be any worse than what we experienced on Sea Dream because we had loud obnoxious kids and loud obnoxious adults. Plus the surroundings on Sea Dream are getting old and tired too. I won't go into all of the other issues we had but Azamara won't be any worse than what we had.

[frequent traveler]

Flipping through the September edition of T&L last night -one article rated best family vacations. Animal Kingdom at DK stood out and of course Disney lines was no. 1 of the large lines. But to my surprise no. 3 on small lines was SD and no 4 was Seabourn. I guess I've missed the change in marketing - I always thought SD's primary market was adults.

And Abenaki, we've spent 21 nights on SD on 8 months. You are so right that at its best, nothing can top SD and I would never expect another line to meet. However, when it doesn't deliver - its a very expensive disappointment. Just as when I travel on business - a Four Seasons is different from a Marriott Courtyard (people can be obnoxious no matter where). I just adjust my expectations (though I think my Mass market experiment at Thanksgiving will be a one and out experience). There's a bit of a splitl in our family on what on board activity should consist of. So I'm being flexible for the next couple of trips and we'll see how it goes . . . .

[CDreamer]

Was just looking at SD's docs. Here's what it says about its policy re: children:

"The yachts’ crew has been instructed to immediately inform parents about unacceptable behavior of our younger guests!"

(SD put the exclamation point in there; not me).

Guess the next question is - just because the parents are informed does it mean anything will be done to curb their kid's bad behavior?

Again, we've been fortunate w/ no kid issues on our SD cruises (so far anyway), but thought it was interesting SD mentions this in their own docs.

[frequent traveler]

Originally Posted by CDreamer

Was just looking at SD's docs. Here's what it says about its policy re: children:

"The yachts’ crew has been instructed to immediately inform parents about unacceptable behavior of our younger guests!"

(SD put the exclamation point in there; not me).

Guess the next question is - just because the parents are informed does it mean anything will be done to curb their kid's bad behavior?

Again, we've been fortunate w/ no kid issues on our SD cruises (so far anyway), but thought it was interesting SD mentions this in their own docs.

We were told by staff a couple of times "but the child is paying full fare too" .. . .and parents were present during the snorkeling in the hot tub . . . Again no absolute objections to children and when in an environment that accomodates, I don't notice . . . but if the parents were "informed" on SD I from Dubrovnik to Athens, nothing was done until the last 2 days.

[Jim Avery]

FT, dont know if you ever check the Seabourn boards but they are having the same issues about kids on board over there. It is amazing how some people have such perfect kids. Can eat in any restaurant, enjoy good entertainment, etc. I have never had the pleasure of meeting such perfect kids (including my own). It seems to be a growing epidemic, this bringing kids to inappropriate venues. What next, little kids at strip clubs???

[frantic36]

Originally Posted by Jim Avery

FT, dont know if you ever check the Seabourn boards but they are having the same issues about kids on board over there. It is amazing how some people have such perfect kids. Can eat in any restaurant, enjoy good entertainment, etc. I have never had the pleasure of meeting such perfect kids (including my own). It seems to be a growing epidemic, this bringing kids to inappropriate venues. What next, little kids at strip clubs???

I don't see why you have a problem with that.

I am sure they are very mature for the age and can handle it with aplomb as the parent's I am sure will reassure you .

I say send them to Crystal, there was enough there and all of them perfectly behaved especially at 8.30pm in the dining room .

Julie

[frequent traveler]

Originally Posted by Jim Avery

FT, dont know if you ever check the Seabourn boards but they are having the same issues about kids on board over there. It is amazing how some people have such perfect kids. Can eat in any restaurant, enjoy good entertainment, etc. I have never had the pleasure of meeting such perfect kids (including my own). It seems to be a growing epidemic, this bringing kids to inappropriate venues. What next, little kids at strip clubs???

I had to go to the SB board and check after this - there is one poster over there - that said, why from the children's point of view would a parent choose to put them in an evironment not designed for children and putting that much stress on them? That basically the parents wanted a luxury experience and it didn't matter the impact on the children or the other guests. I agree with this poster. My children would have NEVER EVER been allowed on SD, too high energy, would joined the snorkelers in the pool & hot tub (or whined if I wouldn't let them), and would definitely not withstand the long dinners. And most people commented on how well behaved they were (in appropropriate surroundings). When kids were younger, I took them on a MM line where I rarely saw them due to children's program - they had a blast (me I swore off MM until now). We watched a very well behaved child on this last SD dream get grumpy and loud during one lengthy SD dinner. I felt sorry for her - she fell asleep at the table and her parents let her sleep through all the courses.

Again, its a vicious circle - by allowing families with young children the luxury lines marketing themselves for adults, risk driving away the very target customers - at least in the holiday months. So the way to fill the yacht/ships is by allowing full fare children on board. And the cycle continues. We've just decided to not pay a premium price for for the product during holidays. With SD being rated as one of the "best" for family experiences - its clear, this isn't limited.

FT

[knotheadusc]

So sad. FT, you're so right that this can easily turn into a vicious cycle. Such a shame that it's come to this, because I think encouraging kids on SD will definitely lead to a lesser product. SD is expensive for us and I sure don't want to risk having my vacation ruined by a bunch of marauding kids and their inattentive parents. I can't imagine why any parent would want their young kids on a SD vessel, when there is nothing for the kids to do. I would think it would be very hard to relax while trying to entertain young children.

[Jim Avery]

Originally Posted by frequent traveler

I had to go to the SB board and check after this - there is one poster over there - that said, why from the children's point of view would a parent choose to put them in an evironment not designed for children and putting that much stress on them? That basically the parents wanted a luxury experience and it didn't matter the impact on the children or the other guests. I agree with this poster. My children would have NEVER EVER been allowed on SD, too high energy, would joined the snorkelers in the pool & hot tub (or whined if I wouldn't let them), and would definitely not withstand the long dinners. And most people commented on how well behaved they were (in appropropriate surroundings). When kids were younger, I took them on a MM line where I rarely saw them due to children's program - they had a blast (me I swore off MM until now). We watched a very well behaved child on this last SD dream get grumpy and loud during one lengthy SD dinner. I felt sorry for her - she fell asleep at the table and her parents let her sleep through all the courses.

Again, its a vicious circle - by allowing families with young children the luxury lines marketing themselves for adults, risk driving away the very target customers - at least in the holiday months. So the way to fill the yacht/ships is by allowing full fare children on board. And the cycle continues. We've just decided to not pay a premium price for for the product during holidays. With SD being rated as one of the "best" for family experiences - its clear, this isn't limited.

FT

And yet, the mass market lines are catering more and more to the higher end cruise passenger by providing better suites, dedicated adults only pools, private lounges, separate restaurants, etc. Cunard does a great job with the Grills accommodations. Food and service in the Grills is on a par with SeaDream/Seabourn. The downside is that once you leave the "exclusive" areas, you are on a mass market ship. But I have to say we had a very nice cruise on Queen Victoria and not even in the Grills. Strangely enough, we have never had a kid issue on Cunard, only on SeaDream.

[frequent traveler]

Originally Posted by Jim Avery

And yet, the mass market lines are catering more and more to the higher end cruise passenger by providing better suites, dedicated adults only pools, private lounges, separate restaurants, etc. Cunard does a great job with the Grills accommodations. Food and service in the Grills is on a par with SeaDream/Seabourn. The downside is that once you leave the "exclusive" areas, you are on a mass market ship. But I have to say we had a very nice cruise on Queen Victoria and not even in the Grills. Strangely enough, we have never had a kid issue on Cunard, only on SeaDream.

that's why "I" am trying "new" lines - (my family has always gone - just without me!). Before I would never have considered anything but SD for a cruise unless it was a place SD never went (like Alaska on Regent) - but now . . . . its different. If I am going to have to encounter children then it will be at lower $ cost and with lower expectations.

FT

[knotheadusc]

Thanks to Jim Avery's post on Seabourn, I looked up Saga Cruises, which is a British line. You really have to be an adult on that cruise... they don't allow anyone under 50 aboard! I guess the 50+ set has already raised their kids!

Hebridean Cruises also doesn't allow young kids. They specifically prohibit kids under age 9. Of course, the Princess doesn't have a pool or hot tub, so there wouldn't be any snorkeling anyway!

[mimito4]

Originally Posted by frequent traveler

If I am going to have to encounter children then it will be at lower $ cost and with lower expectations.

FT

Amen sister!

Hey T, I think you and I should both do our reviews from our upcoming mass cruise lines and post them here on SD. Perhaps the message will get delivered. We should title them something like "Cruising with kids. . .what is the real cost?" Implying of course, what is the real cost to SD by continuing to perpetuate such a concept on their very small vessels, where there is no place to hide from the little darlings.

Btw, let it be known that I love to travel with kids--well, actually just my own grandchildren--and only then, where there is specific entertainment for them.

[frequent traveler]

Have been using the lavender oil I bought in Hvar. Really wished I had bought more. If you like lavender give it a try. The scent is not overwhelming and it's so relaxing . . . Brings back lovely days in Croatia.

[TigrTony]

[quote=frequent traveler;32518817]Just booked the hotel in Venice, but really struggling with the split ticket airfare - when boarding SD in Venice and getting kicked off in Athens. My preferred FF airline Delta no longer flies non stop Athens back to any where in the US except JFK and we can't make our connection home without spending a night somewhere. So from the real experts -- any suggestions on major city routings from the East Coast (we have to connect to get anywhere from home).

thanks

Delta are partnered with two majr European carriers via Skyteam. Air France and KLM. Have you thought of checking with Delta to connect via Amsterdam or Paris to Venice on the way out, and from Athens via Amsterdam or Paris to connect back on Delta to the US?

United are partnered with Lufthansa and may offer a similar option. My daughter and husband just used airmiles to fly from Houston to London on United, switched to Lufthansa to fly via Munich to Venice for their cruise. Their return was from Rome on Lufthansa to Franfurt, then on United back to Houston. They did it for surprisingly few miles too.
Good luck. Tony

[zqvol]

[quote=TigrTony;35342910]

Originally Posted by frequent traveler

Just booked the hotel in Venice, but really struggling with the split ticket airfare - when boarding SD in Venice and getting kicked off in Athens. My preferred FF airline Delta no longer flies non stop Athens back to any where in the US except JFK and we can't make our connection home without spending a night somewhere. So from the real experts -- any suggestions on major city routings from the East Coast (we have to connect to get anywhere from home).

thanks

Delta are partnered with two majr European carriers via Skyteam. Air France and KLM. Have you thought of checking with Delta to connect via Amsterdam or Paris to Venice on the way out, and from Athens via Amsterdam or Paris to connect back on Delta to the US?

United are partnered with Lufthansa and may offer a similar option. My daughter and husband just used airmiles to fly from Houston to London on United, switched to Lufthansa to fly via Munich to Venice for their cruise. Their return was from Rome on Lufthansa to Franfurt, then on United back to Houston. They did it for surprisingly few miles too.
Good luck. Tony

Thanks for your information but we have been back home for two months. - ZQ