Middle East Violence Effects Cruise Itineraries

[NSWP]

Not seen any real cheap Middle Eastern Cruise deals yet, but if many people pull out of their cruises, I might be in ! Time to trawl the Cruise Wholesaler sites.

[johndon]

Please dont shoot the messenger. I received a copy of an e mail sent by an American citizen to his brother in USA and was quite disturbed by it as was the recipient the E mail.
The American who is reportedly an ex US Navy seal has witnessed the movement of troops in the vicinity of Jerusleum along with missile batteries, 3 of which were within sight of his office window. He has never seen anything like this before. I have no idea what is the "norm" in Israel but the US citizen was certainly disturbed by what he has witnessed. He also said that Egypt was building up Armored divisions in the Sianai and does not know the reason for that.
I only pass this along as I feel people should know these things. I only hope it is not true. I have the name of the person who sent the e mail from Jerusalem but in fairness to him I am not disclosing it at this time.
There has been a lot of sabre rattling by Israel over the Nuclear issue in Iran recently and threats to attack those facilities but I do not know anything about the immediate threat of such a thing happening.
I am not scaremongering, just passing on what I perceive as a legitimate source of information from an eyewitness of certain things happening in the vicinity of Jeruselum.

John

[happy trailer]

Originally Posted by johndon

Please dont shoot the messenger. I received a copy of an e mail sent by an American citizen to his brother in USA and was quite disturbed by it as was the recipient the E mail.
The American who is reportedly an ex US Navy seal has witnessed the movement of troops in the vicinity of Jerusleum along with missile batteries, 3 of which were within sight of his office window. He has never seen anything like this before. I have no idea what is the "norm" in Israel but the US citizen was certainly disturbed by what he has witnessed. He also said that Egypt was building up Armored divisions in the Sianai and does not know the reason for that.
I only pass this along as I feel people should know these things. I only hope it is not true. I have the name of the person who sent the e mail from Jerusalem but in fairness to him I am not disclosing it at this time.
There has been a lot of sabre rattling by Israel over the Nuclear issue in Iran recently and threats to attack those facilities but I do not know anything about the immediate threat of such a thing happening.
I am not scaremongering, just passing on what I perceive as a legitimate source of information from an eyewitness of certain things happening in the vicinity of Jeruselum.

John

I am an American citizen living in a suburb of Jerusalem. My terrace overlooks both Jerusalem, and the main highway leading to the entrance of Jerusalem.

I can assure you that there has been NO troop movement in the area at all. NONE.

I have not seen any missle batteries moved into the area, nor have any been reported - again, these are all thing which would have been reported in the press, and talked about in the street. It is absolutely impossible to move troops or any sort of armament anywhere in the vicinity of Jerusalem without the populace knowing about it. My town is under the main flight path of helicopters around Jerusalem, and there has not been any unusual activity in the air, either.

Over the past weeks, Egyptian Sinai has been under attack by local Bedouin, who have teamed up with radical Islamists to attack Egyptian military positons, in an attempt to force the Egyptian government to free their members who have been arrested for a variety of crimes. These attacks have bern widely reported, as has the fact that Egypt is buffing up their military presence in Sinai- this buildup is being done with the approval of various international agencies, including the Israeli government. There is no buildup of Egyptian armored divisions- there is a troop buildup, but nothing on a large scale. I would think that an ex-navy seal would know very well what is going on in Sinai, and endorse Egypt's reaction. Anyone claiming otherwise is scaremongering.

Again- I live here. I'm also a US citizen. I am giving you first hand information as someone who is immersed in Israeli life. Your reporting second or third hand information which you cannot confirm is, indeed, scaremongering.

[Pushka]

Thank you Ruth. I look forward to visiting Israel next year.

[Gold Coast Cruisers]

Originally Posted by happy trailer

I am an American citizen living in a suburb of Jerusalem. My terrace overlooks both Jerusalem, and the main highway leading to the entrance of Jerusalem.

I can assure you that there has been NO troop movement in the area at all. NONE.

I have not seen any missle batteries moved into the area, nor have any been reported - again, these are all thing which would have been reported in the press, and talked about in the street. It is absolutely impossible to move troops or any sort of armament anywhere in the vicinity of Jerusalem without the populace knowing about it. My town is under the main flight path of helicopters around Jerusalem, and there has not been any unusual activity in the air, either.

Over the past weeks, Egyptian Sinai has been under attack by local Bedouin, who have teamed up with radical Islamists to attack Egyptian military positons, in an attempt to force the Egyptian government to free their members who have been arrested for a variety of crimes. These attacks have bern widely reported, as has the fact that Egypt is buffing up their military presence in Sinai- this buildup is being done with the approval of various international agencies, including the Israeli government. There is no buildup of Egyptian armored divisions- there is a troop buildup, but nothing on a large scale. I would think that an ex-navy seal would know very well what is going on in Sinai, and endorse Egypt's reaction. Anyone claiming otherwise is scaremongering.

Again- I live here. I'm also a US citizen. I am giving you first hand information as someone who is immersed in Israeli life. Your reporting second or third hand information which you cannot confirm is, indeed, scaremongering.

That's a bit of a harsh response to 'Johndon' Ruth. You are obviously involved in the Travel industry so you 'want' it to all be OK.....

Jill

[Pushka]

I had no idea that Ruth was a TA and I'm not sure it matters. She is on the spot and can see for herself and not through the media which has their own agenda and they run with it.

[happy trailer]

Originally Posted by Gold Coast Cruisers

That's a bit of a harsh response to 'Johndon' Ruth. You are obviously involved in the Travel industry so you 'want' it to all be OK.....

Jill

Absolutely not! I'm a painter. My only involvement in the travel industry is in all the money I pay for cruises and other travel during the year

If my response was harsh, it was output of frustration- what Johndon posted was so outrageously not the case, that I could not leave his post as is. In fact, I am hoping he comes back to respond with more information as to his source- I'd like to know who is sending out such misleading and scaremongering messages!

I showed his post to my husband, and we both has the same reaction- it sounded like it was written a dozen years ago, during the second Gulf war. At that time, Israel was under the threat of a possible chemical attack (it's when we were all issued gas masks), and Patriot missle batteries were set up outside our cities.

Of course I want it to be OK here! But NOT because I'm involved in the travel industry! Sheesh- I LIVE here. Israel is a very small country. If a war breaks out, then my life is in directly in danger.

If there was even the smallest reason of it being dangerous to visit here, all the Israelis on the cruise critic boards would be advising posters to hold off on their trips to the area. Check out the CC thread in my signature, or hop over to the Middle East board, and you'll see that the chatter is normal.

Personally, I have a solo trans Atlantic cruise planned for this November. While my husband and I have briefly discussed what I will do if war breaks out while I am on the cruise, that discussion just came up in order to cover all scenarios. I have no thoughts of doing anything but thoroughly enjoying those two weeks on the ship .

[Bella cruiser]

No way I would be visiting this area atm. Which is sad Just couldn't risk it with a 9 year old. I don't think I would contemplate a visit to Israel/Palestine at any time though, for the same reason, too dangerous for me. Are you in the Israeli military Happy Trailers, you seem to know lots more detail than the average person?

[happy trailer]

Originally Posted by Pushka

I had no idea that Ruth was a TA and I'm not sure it matters. She is on the spot and can see for herself and not through the media which has their own agenda and they run with it.

Thank you, Pushka. As I wrote in the post below, I am not involved in the travel industry. I am a painter.

You make a very good point, and I'm glad you brought it up-

I'm sure we are all aware that media coverage of any event differs from place to place, with each media outlet bringing its own agenda to its reports. One of the things I enjoy doing when traveling is to pick up a local paper. I'm often surprised to see how different their local events are being reported from what I had read. (And, I am also often dismayed to see how events here are being reported.)

[happy trailer]

Originally Posted by Bella cruiser

No way I would be visiting this area atm. Which is sad Just couldn't risk it with a 9 year old. I don't think I would contemplate a visit to Israel/Palestine at any time though, for the same reason, too dangerous for me. Are you in the Israeli military Happy Trailers, you seem to know lots more detail than the average person?

No- I am not in the military.

Israel is a very small country (you can drive it fom end to end in about 6 hours), and people here are very close. With compulsory military service before university, followed by yearly reserve duty until the age of 40, pretty much everyone knows someone, or of someone, in service. You just simply cannot mobilize troops here without the general populace knowing about it. Add to that our being under almost constant threat, means that the average person in Israel lives their life being super aware of all things military.

[badgerbill]

Originally Posted by NSWP

Not seen any real cheap Middle Eastern Cruise deals yet, but if many people pull out of their cruises, I might be in ! Time to trawl the Cruise Wholesaler sites.

Les you and Mary need to come on the Mariner of the Seas - May next year with us....we start in Barcelona finish in Singapore... 2 sectors would finally get to meet you both cheers Shiona

[Pushka]

Originally Posted by Bella cruiser

No way I would be visiting this area atm. Which is sad Just couldn't risk it with a 9 year old. I don't think I would contemplate a visit to Israel/Palestine at any time though, for the same reason, too dangerous for me. Are you in the Israeli military Happy Trailers, you seem to know lots more detail than the average person?

We will be hopefully, on a cruise which ports at Israel and Egypt next year. I think this is the safest way to go to these areas, as there is no way the ship will be going there if there is any risk. But I really really hope we can go! I wouldn't go with kids though, but ours are all grown up!

[Bella cruiser]

Originally Posted by Pushka

We will be hopefully, on a cruise which ports at Israel and Egypt next year. I think this is the safest way to go to these areas, as there is no way the ship will be going there if there is any risk. But I really really hope we can go! I wouldn't go with kids though, but ours are all grown up!

We took our son on a flying/land based holiday to Egypt in 2010 & had a fantastic time.We were hoping to go to Jordan as I have always wanted to see Petra but it's too risky for us with a child. Maybe a Med cruise may be a way of doing it with minimal risk. Anyway, I wish you a fantastic cruise.

[bazzaw]

My standard policy is --- I don't want to go to any Port that the Captain of the Ship doesn't want to go to!!

Barry

[johndon]

Ruth

The Email from the former Navy Seal in Jeruselum was sent out on 16th September to his brother in the United States. The brother was so concerned about the e mail that he has sent it on to his contacts and that is the way I have come into posession of it. I too was concerned and felt that I could not just sit on it and ignore it. The brother's concern in Israel is that many Israelis feel that they do not have the support of Obama and that Obama is more interested in appeasing the Arab countries than he is with Israel.
He is also convinced that an attack on Iran's nuclear facilities is imminent by Israel with or without the support of the US. Netenyahu has asked for a meeting with Obama on several occasions and has not even got a reply. He feels that if Iran produces a nuclear device then it will only take just one bomb and Israel is finished. It is a matter of survival for Israel. His focus is on the Iran Israel issue and not so much on what is going on in the Sinai and he mentions Egypt's tank deployment there as an aside. I am aware of some unrest in that area about a month ago which Egypt blamed on "Terrorists" but he does not mention that in the e mail. He is so concerned about what is happening in Israel especially during the last two weeks that he has moved his family back to the US. He has witnessed the troop movements and other defensive activities by the Israeli military himself and has other information backing that up from his contacts within the IDF and the US.
I have probably said too much in this e mail and just hope I havent compromised anyone.
I am not prepared to name individuals for their own protection.
I AM NOT SCAREMONGERING. I AM PASSING ON INFORMATION THAT HAS CONCERNED ME FOR THE BENEFIT OF ANY INTERESTED PERSONS READING THIS THREAD and I hope, Ruth that you take it in that context.

John

[Pushka]

It's kinda hard to respond without getting political about people's various visits to the USA so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[happy trailer]

Originally Posted by johndon

Ruth

The Email from the former Navy Seal in Jeruselum was sent out on 16th September to his brother in the United States. The brother was so concerned about the e mail that he has sent it on to his contacts and that is the way I have come into posession of it. I too was concerned and felt that I could not just sit on it and ignore it. The brother's concern in Israel is that many Israelis feel that they do not have the support of Obama and that Obama is more interested in appeasing the Arab countries than he is with Israel.
He is also convinced that an attack on Iran's nuclear facilities is imminent by Israel with or without the support of the US. Netenyahu has asked for a meeting with Obama on several occasions and has not even got a reply. He feels that if Iran produces a nuclear device then it will only take just one bomb and Israel is finished. It is a matter of survival for Israel. His focus is on the Iran Israel issue and not so much on what is going on in the Sinai and he mentions Egypt's tank deployment there as an aside. I am aware of some unrest in that area about a month ago which Egypt blamed on "Terrorists" but he does not mention that in the e mail. He is so concerned about what is happening in Israel especially during the last two weeks that he has moved his family back to the US. He has witnessed the troop movements and other defensive activities by the Israeli military himself and has other information backing that up from his contacts within the IDF and the US.
I have probably said too much in this e mail and just hope I havent compromised anyone.
I am not prepared to name individuals for their own protection.
I AM NOT SCAREMONGERING. I AM PASSING ON INFORMATION THAT HAS CONCERNED ME FOR THE BENEFIT OF ANY INTERESTED PERSONS READING THIS THREAD and I hope, Ruth that you take it in that context.

John

Originally Posted by Pushka

It's kinda hard to respond without getting political about people's various visits to the USA so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

I agree with Pushka- it's difficult to respond without getting political- and this board is not the place for political discussions. So, I will respond with simple facts:

- All that you have written can be found in pretty much any newspaper. But, as has been noted by several posters, the news outlets have their own agendas, and one finds that identical events are reported differently around the world- and there are many times that initial reports are followed by corrections or even total rescindnations. For example, initial reports about the inflammatory film which has caused a world wide uproar claimed it had been produced by an Israeli American. A day or so later it was revealed that there was no truth to those reports, and that the film was the work of Egyptian Coptics.

- Regarding Israel and Obama: this is an election year, and there is a lot of posturing going on. Obama not replying to Netanyahu's calls? Do you really think that would happen? When those initial reports came out in the press, within a day follow up reports came out about a flurry of back and forth phone calls between them. Is there some irritation between the two of them? Could be, but they are world leaders, and they do not ignore each others' calls. While their locations may not allow for an in-person meeting, they are in touch. Neither country is making decisions or moves about Iran without consulting the other.

(BTW, the claims you write of about Israelis feeling that Obama just wants to appease the Arabs is such old and out of date news that posting it is sort of inflammatory. Israelis are very aware that, in fact, Obama has been very supportive of Israel.)

- Can just one nuclear bomb destroy Israel? Yes. Israel is a very small country, with most of of its population concentrated in a central region, so yes, all it will take is one bomb to destroy it. So, of course, with Iranian leaders constantly calling for Israel's destruction, everyone here is focusing on Iran's nuclear activities.

- Regarding troop movements: I'm not seeing it, and no one I know has heard anything about any special troop buldups. Keep in mind that the Israeli military and Home Front command are constantly running drills. Maybe he came across one of them unexpectedly? Over the years, that's happened to us on several occasions while traveling about the country. It's quite a sight, and I can imagine that someone who was unprepared for it could get shaken up. Personally, I find them very reassuring (which bothers me for a whole set of 'hippie' reasons, but that's a discussion for a philosophy board, not CC).

- Regarding your navy seal moving his family out Israel: well, that's his personal decision. I'd never tell anyone to visit or stay here if they don't feel comfortable or safe. What I can tell you is that there has been no call by any foreign government for their non-essential personnel to leave, and that Israelis are staying put. I haven't checked, but I don't think there are any new travel alerts up, either.

- I can assure you that you haven't compromised anyone by anything you have posted. As I said, it's all been in the papers for quite a while, and much of it is so outdated that it is actually false.

[Bella cruiser]

Wow, this thread has gotten a bit out of hand and probably should be closed.

Everyone has different takes on the Middle East tensions and the issues facing the Israelis and Palestinians as they try to live on the same land. As for whether Ruth or John are correct....I guess time will tell.

Meanwhile I am staying well away, shame really because I find this part of the world and its ancient past so fascinating. Maybe one day, they will make a lasting peace based on some respect and empathy from all, well... we can hope can't we.

[mmemichele]

If God. Forbid Iran were to try. Andblow up Isreal. With a nuclear weapon do people realize gaza and the west bankwould bedestoyed as well .Also the fallout would destroy the whole region beyondIsraeli borders ....Jordan andegypt would be affected including Lebanon and syria IM not sure youcould controlthe contaminationOfthe whole are
jerusalemandall its Holy sites would be gone .is this truly what they want
it is true Israel is really small .bombs nowadays are very powerful .nothing inthe area would be left to conquer

My ipad has a mind of its own .i type itjumbles things but you get my driftBasically ifthey attacked israel none of their ownpeople would be spared inthe fallout ...i!m thinking fellow muslims


Do you think they will take kindly to that beingdestroyrd by Iran

[Host Kat >^..^<]

Please check out http://www.snopes.com/politics/israel/iranwar.asp regarding Rumors of War. Per the site at this time, the e-mail is probably false.

Kat