English vs American

[jocap]

I'm not sure a muffler was just a scarf....my grandma used to ask whether the bairns were muffled up, on a frosty day, and it meant everything above the chest was wrapped close. I think of being muffled as having a large scarf, or small shawl, wrapped around my head which was already "muffled" in a woolly bonnet with strings tightly tied. My weak-chested friend would have a shawl over all that lot, before we set off to walk to school. Muffled, swaddled and snuggled all meant much the same when it came to fighting the bitter weather on our daily walks.

[hat776]

Jo I'm sure you're right - in Malta the word was used for 'scarf' because it never gets so cold that you needed all that muffling up.

[Saruman]

Here's one that puzzles me:

In the UK (at least I think), when you cut down a tree, you have lumber and when it is processed into boards, it becomes timber.
In the US, timber is the rough cut wood, and it's processed into lumber.

Yet tree cutters, at least in the US, are lumbermen who cry "Timber!" when the tree comes down.

[SteveH2508]

In US you drive on the pavement - in UK we walk on the pavement.

[mallorcasaint]

When I worked in electronics with the US Forces for NATO I was baffled by their use of "Sodder" until I realised they meant "Solder".

BTW "Leftenant" comes from the French word 'lieu' which comes from the old French 'luef' which gives rise to the pronunciation "LEF-tenant"

[Putterdude]

Originally Posted by Saruman

Here's one that puzzles me:

In the UK (at least I think), when you cut down a tree, you have lumber and when it is processed into boards, it becomes timber.
In the US, timber is the rough cut wood, and it's processed into lumber.

Yet tree cutters, at least in the US, are lumbermen who cry "Timber!" when the tree comes down.

On the west coast, where we have real trees, tree cutters are called loggers, sometimes fallers, and timber is a stand of trees which a forest is made up of. When the tree is cut down it becomes a log which is cut into lumber at a mill. Yes, loggers call "timber" just as the tree starts to fall.

[tillydog]

Having lived in the UK and Australia, I have noticed that although Aussies mainly use the English spellings, alot of our words are shared with the Americans ie: Pants = Trousers and a Vest = Waistcoat. My MIL & SIL also use the word purse for their handbags. Havent heard that used here by anyone else except them and they have no link with the USA!

The USA term for bum bags (fanny packs) has me baffled! As one's fanny (thus assuming you are female) is lower down than waist level!!

There are 3 words that the Americans pronounce really badly and grates on my nerves when I hear them. I'm not normally one to sweat the small stuff in life, but these 3 words really irk!!
Aluminium, Basil and Oregano!

Aluminium (al lum in yee um)
Basil (ba zil)
Oregano (or rig ar no)

[Texas Tillie]

Originally Posted by tillydog

Having lived in the UK and Australia, I have noticed that although Aussies mainly use the English spellings, alot of our words are shared with the Americans ie: Pants = Trousers and a Vest = Waistcoat. My MIL & SIL also use the word purse for their handbags. Havent heard that used here by anyone else except them and they have no link with the USA!

The USA term for bum bags (fanny packs) has me baffled! As one's fanny (thus assuming you are female) is lower down than waist level!!

There are 3 words that the Americans pronounce really badly and grates on my nerves when I hear them. I'm not normally one to sweat the small stuff in life, but these 3 words really irk!!
Aluminium, Basil and Oregano!

Aluminium (al lum in yee um)
Basil (ba zil)
Oregano (or rig ar no)

The problem with "fanny" is that it's a different part of the anatomy in the US. To us it's rear, butt, seat, a$$, gluteus maximus, etc. The use of fanny is "nicer" than say using butt. It (Fanny) was a very popular 19th century woman's name.

[Saruman]

Can't defend either Basil or Oregano. But there are two accepted spellings for the metal alloy you mention: "Aluminum" (w/o the second "i") is the American and Canadian spelling, so the pronunciation on this side of the Atlantic is understandable. And spelling variants abound and are a part of the evolution of the English Language. Sorry if these, or others, grate on your ears. It's a regional dialect thing, not lack of education, like most of the other things we have discussed here.

[Pushka]

Don't call them fanny bags on Australia. You will get weird looks.


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[secondhandrose]

Originally Posted by Pushka

Don't call them fanny bags on Australia. You will get weird looks.


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This thread is good. I am a Yorkshire lass and when we visited Australia a few years ago I was slightly upset that our great nephew then about 19 yrs old never came to talk with us When I asked his Mum why, she said "It is because he can't understand a word you say. Ah! Well .Hope we have better luck next year when we visit, as he is now a Dad with a 3 year old son. I'm going to learn the little one to say "Hey Up! A Tha All reight". ( Hello are you all right) That will teach him.
Marlene

[jocap]

We've watched some sad programmes this weekend about Costa Concordia. We did notice the different pronounciations of the word "water".
The very British commentator said:"Wor-ter"
The American said "Warder"
Later, there was a programme about an Essex girl- and she said:"wor'er".
If my Yorkshire dad was still alive, he'd have said: "Waa'er"
And they're all absolutely correct!

[$hip$hape]

Originally Posted by jocap

<<<The very British commentator said:"Wor-ter"
The American said "Warder"
Later, there was a programme about an Essex girl- and she said:"wor'er".
If my Yorkshire dad was still alive, he'd have said: "Waa'er"
And they're all absolutely correct!

And after all this time, I thought I was pronouncing "wodder"

On a different note,
I have a little job for you all;
Could someone (you) explain to the ignorant(me) the following pun?

"Arrant puns" were the subject of attacks by the likes of Joseph Addison, 18th Century London's pre-eminent literary tastemaker.
He decried them as debased witticisms and exulted that they had been "banished out of the learned world".

Yet Addison's campaign was not enough to expunge the pun from the capital's coffee-houses, where the poet Nicholas Rowe once fell victim to a pun-fuelled prank, described in The Percy Anecdotes.
After nagging one of his fellow patrons to borrow a diamond-encrusted snuff box, the owner succumbed, but not before scribbling in its lid the Greek letters phi and rho, or "Fie, Rowe!" An onlooker spoke for many when he remarked that
"a man who could make so vile a pun would not scruple to pick a pocket".

[ShakyBeef]

Originally Posted by $hip$hape

And after all this time, I thought I was pronouncing "wodder"

On a different note,
I have a little job for you all;
Could someone (you) explain to the ignorant(me) the following pun?

"Arrant puns" were the subject of attacks by the likes of Joseph Addison, 18th Century London's pre-eminent literary tastemaker.
He decried them as debased witticisms and exulted that they had been "banished out of the learned world".

Yet Addison's campaign was not enough to expunge the pun from the capital's coffee-houses, where the poet Nicholas Rowe once fell victim to a pun-fuelled prank, described in The Percy Anecdotes.
After nagging one of his fellow patrons to borrow a diamond-encrusted snuff box, the owner succumbed, but not before scribbling in its lid the Greek letters phi and rho, or "Fie, Rowe!" An onlooker spoke for many when he remarked that
"a man who could make so vile a pun would not scruple to pick a pocket".

Although I probably fit into the category of the ignorant, i'll take a shot at it and wait to see if I'm correct when someone who knows better speaks up.

As I have always understood it, the now-archaic "Fie" is a sort of mild oath with a meaning Of "for shame" or just to express mild disgust with someone or something. The pun was simply using the Greek letters with names that phonetically match this term of disgust (phi = fie) and the victim's surname (rho = Rowe) in order to admonish him with a little wit.

Does this help? Am I missing something?


Oh, and I say "wawder". The only r in that word when I pronounce it is at the end.

[ShakyBeef]

My mother and her mother, who came from Pennsylvania Dutch (who were German, not Dutch, but that's another topic) country, pronounced the word water as warder. And they warsh the dishes. And the White House is in Warshington D.C.

[$hip$hape]

Originally Posted by ShakyBeef

Although I probably fit into the category of the ignorant, i'll take a shot at it and wait to see if I'm correct when someone who knows better speaks up.

As I have always understood it, the now-archaic "Fie" is a sort of mild oath with a meaning Of "for shame" or just to express mild disgust with someone or something. The pun was simply using the Greek letters with names that phonetically match this term of disgust (phi = fie) and the victim's surname (rho = Rowe) in order to admonish him with a little wit.

Does this help? Am I missing something?


Oh, and I say "wawder". The only r in that word when I pronounce it is at the end.

After a little more investigation,
In William Shakespeare's play King Lear, the character of Edgar exclaims:
Fie, foh, and fum,
I smell the blood of a British man.
The verse in King Lear makes use of the archaic word "fie", used to express disapproval.

In the fairy tale Jack the Giant-Killer,
Fee, Fie, Fau, Fum.
I smell the blood of an Englishman,
Be he living, or be he dead,
I’ll grind his bones to mix my bread.

[$hip$hape]

My father, born of Irish immigrants, who grew up in Northwestern Pennsylvania, always pronounced the letter "H" as "haitch".
It always caused my mother to correct him; it drove her nuts!
However, he never changed.
Because of this thread, sixty years later, I came upon this information:
The non-standard haitch pronunciation of h has spread in England, being used by approximately 24% of English people born since 1982 and polls continue to show this pronunciation becoming more common among younger native speakers. Despite this increasing number, careful speakers of English continue to pronounce aitch in the standard way, although the non-standard pronunciation is also attested as a legitimate variant.

[jocap]

In England, there is RP- received pronunciation- which is, or was, the "correct" way to pronounce words. This is much disliked by northern counties, and the other 3 countries which make up the UK. It's the sort of pronunciation spoken by actors when they're being very "English". I had to go on an elocution course at college, but my northern vowels kept breaking through.....
I was wondering whether there was anything similar in the US, or Canada? Does anyone ever try to correct the way you speak- not the words themselves, and obviously not slang, which will be corrected for other reasons, but the vowel sounds, T and D, V for TH, word endings etc? Is there an accent which is deemed "better" than others, for instance_ Washington, Ontario? Or an accent which is seen as just a joke?

[ShakyBeef]

In the U.S., generally, what might be considered the best accent to have is what sounds like "no accent" - no regional sounds to the accent at all. It's just a generic "American" accent. Most actors and TV personalities / reporters use this non-accent accent. When you listen to one of these people speak, you have no idea where in the country they are from.

Several regional accents have been turned into jokes / had jokes made about them for a long time: the Southern drawl, the New York and New Jersey accents, Minnesota / North Dakota, just to name a few.

As for having one's pronunciation corrected, I don't think it happens all too often here. It's a shame, but I just don't think most Americans these days care about using the language properly. In fact, I'm sure I'm not the only American that finds herself "dumbing down" her speech and written word in order to not come off sounding too "hoity toity".

[Bookish Angel]

I write, produce and announce for public radio here in the USA and believe me, if the listeners do not hear the expected or t on the end of a word, catch us on a mispronounced word, etc., we take that very seriously.

While the non-regional accent is still preferred for commercial radio, public radio is more accepting and in fact encourages accents provided one's diction and pronunciation is very good; Ofeibea Quist-Arcton, International Correspondent, Dakar and Louisa Lim, International Correspondent, Bejing are well-known examples of NPR reporters with accents.

As for me, I write and pronounce for the well-educated, well-traveled audience I serve.