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  #21  
Old May 14th, 2014, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rlwnsgb View Post
We were there in June of 2012 on a honeymoon cruise. Didn't know about the anti-gay sentiment there and never experienced any negative looks or comments. Stingray City was awesome. Stingrays were like giant puppies. Went there on a group excursion via a catamaran, which also included snorkeling.

Of all the places we've visited as a couple, Las Vegas (Sin City) was the only place we've received unwelcome comments. Go figure...
We to found Las Vegas was a threat. A few years ago when we were there, the police were sitting outside of a gay bar watching people leave and when they got into there cars would pull them over.
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  #22  
Old May 14th, 2014, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by CrusingJoe View Post
We to found Las Vegas was a threat. A few years ago when we were there, the police were sitting outside of a gay bar watching people leave and when they got into there cars would pull them over.
We were there last year & never had any problem. Did you get pulled over or just "heard" about it from someone? If it happened to me, I'd be filing a harrassment complaint against the cops immediately. Considering the drugs & other crime that takes place there(on the side streets)I'd tend to think the cops have better things to do. So please back up your statement with facts.
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  #23  
Old May 16th, 2014, 05:53 AM
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We were there last year & never had any problem. Did you get pulled over or just "heard" about it from someone? If it happened to me, I'd be filing a harrassment complaint against the cops immediately. Considering the drugs & other crime that takes place there(on the side streets)I'd tend to think the cops have better things to do. So please back up your statement with facts.
No we did not get pulled over. We were told by the bartender what the police was doing and we did observe them in action.
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  #24  
Old June 17th, 2014, 08:58 AM
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We've been a numb of times, so at this point, we usually stay on the ship and take advantage of the spa discounts....never had any problems there, tho...


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  #25  
Old June 23rd, 2014, 07:28 PM
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Grand Cayman is one of our stops in September, along with Montego Bay. We plan to make Grand Cayman a beach day. As others have said, we do not show PDA. Often times we pass as brothers. We have been to the Bahamas, Barbados, St. Lucia, etc. and have never experienced any problems. We had so much fun in Barbados that we have booked that Southern itinerary again! Save your PDA for your cabin and you shouldn't have any trouble in Grand Cayman.
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  #26  
Old June 23rd, 2014, 10:45 PM
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Well, some of us are interracial couples so the brother thing doesn't work.
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  #27  
Old June 23rd, 2014, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Boytjie View Post
Well, some of us are interracial couples so the brother thing doesn't work.
Gotcha
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  #28  
Old June 24th, 2014, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by diknjoe View Post
...If you prefer not to financially support places that are homophobic, then you should avoid the Bahamas and Jamaica and Grand Cayman.

D&J
While I completely agree on boycotting the homophobic, let's try to remember that the viewpoint of a government is not the viewpoint of all their citizens. We live in Atlanta, and I would hope no one would decide not to patronize my business because Georgia is a fiercely red state.

When it comes to Grand Cayman, some of my most accepting friends have lived / have a place there. When we were there in 2012, we were with the most gay people I've ever seen on a ship. Some in our party were so flaming that I thought they'd create steam at Stingray City! We had a shore excursion with a non-sponsored company. None of us had a single thought about any Cayman reputation of homophobia, because the proprietors & employees of both the excursion company and the restaurant we went to for lunch welcomed us in like family. We haven't encountered any issue on other visits, either.

In most places - and there are definite exceptions - you find what you're looking for. If you're looking for homophobia and negative comments, you're bound to find them even if you're in San Francisco for Pride. My partner (13 1/2 years) and I have traveled extensively without any issues. Granted, my cop father started training me to be a cop as soon as I could walk, and I've done executive protection for politicians, pro athletes, and Fortune 500 CEOs. Now I'm a travel agent with my finger on the pulse of travel news around the world, so I approach some of these scenarios with a different level of awareness & insight than the average bear (or otter, or ....).

The world is changing, and we move it forward by being who we are and living our lives confidently. Go forth and conquer! Just don't try to multiply on your balcony.

(Oh, and as for Africa, they're so far off the homophobia chart that I don't actively promote tours there.)
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RCL/Freedom OTS: 01Nov09 • Western Caribbean • Turned out we were sailing with "Hogs on the High Seas." What an AWESOME group!
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  #29  
Old June 25th, 2014, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by shawne71 View Post
Grand Cayman is one of our stops in September, along with Montego Bay. We plan to make Grand Cayman a beach day. As others have said, we do not show PDA. Often times we pass as brothers. We have been to the Bahamas, Barbados, St. Lucia, etc. and have never experienced any problems. We had so much fun in Barbados that we have booked that Southern itinerary again! Save your PDA for your cabin and you shouldn't have any trouble in Grand Cayman.
To quote Arthur Frommer's guidebook: "None of the islands in the Caribbean are completely gay-friendly, even more liberal destinations like Puerto Rico and St. Croix. But the government of the Cayman Islands has been particularly vocal and unapologetic in expressing its anti-gay attitudes."

Now, I personally went to Grand Cayman while shunning Jamaica, but now am reassessing that dividing line. You may, in fact, make an entirely different choice about where you choose to spend your tourist dollars, as is your right.

But one way or the other, I find the argument that it's OK to visit an anti-gay country as long as you play their game and stay in the the closet to be rather unpersuasive. (Particularly as the queers who actually live there do not have so easy an option.)
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  #30  
Old June 25th, 2014, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by PolarisKale View Post
In most places - and there are definite exceptions - you find what you're looking for. If you're looking for homophobia and negative comments, you're bound to find them even if you're in San Francisco for Pride.
I'm sorry, but reductio your ad absurdum elsewhere. I happen to live in San Francisco, and yes, there are half a dozen religious maniacs who stand on Market Street on Saturday afternoon and make nasty homophobic comments. But I just walked home from the 11-day LGBT film festival, holding the hand of my husband, whom I married at City Hall, and no one gave us a second glance. Explain to me again, please, how that is in any way comparable to a country where there are no gay bars, where same-sex couples have no legal standing, where the government takes virulently anti-gay stances, and LGBT people have no civil rights protections?

Sure, no place is perfect, or even near-perfect. But "Why not go to the 1936 Berlin Olympics? There's anti-Semitism in New York City, too." is a weakish argument.
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  #31  
Old June 25th, 2014, 12:09 PM
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Question Be the change you wish to see in port...

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Originally Posted by shepp View Post
I'm sorry, but reductio your ad absurdum elsewhere. I happen to live in San Francisco, and yes, there are half a dozen religious maniacs who stand on Market Street on Saturday afternoon and make nasty homophobic comments. But I just walked home from the 11-day LGBT film festival, holding the hand of my husband, whom I married at City Hall, and no one gave us a second glance. Explain to me again, please, how that is in any way comparable to a country where there are no gay bars, where same-sex couples have no legal standing, where the government takes virulently anti-gay stances, and LGBT people have no civil rights protections?

Sure, no place is perfect, or even near-perfect. But "Why not go to the 1936 Berlin Olympics? There's anti-Semitism in New York City, too." is a weakish argument.
To clarify, you want me to reduction my to absurdity elsewhere???

The fact is that you actually proved my point AND spun the discussion toward reductio ad absurdum, twisting my comment to fit your comparison of life in the Caymans to the treatment of Jews in 1936. San Francisco is one of the, if not THE, most accepting cities for the LGBTQ community. Pride is an gathering which welcomes all participants, regardless of gender identity or sexual orientation. I combined these two loving and accepting communities into a metaphor for the most homophile environment imaginable. Homophobia in San Francisco at Pride is like ice in the Sahara: It won't last long before being obliterated. My statement was: if you look for it, you can even find homophobia in San Francisco at Pride. You chose to rebuff my statement by saying, point blank, that there are homophobes in San Francisco. Uhm...thanks for backing me up with facts...I guess?

Do I think the hatred and fear spewed by the Cayman government is acceptable? Absolutely not. Under no circumstances would I choose a Grand Cayman resort as my week-long vacation destination. That being said, I'm going on a cruise in just over a week. As it happens, Grand Cayman is one of our ports of call. Royal Caribbean is not going to change their itinerary because of the ignorance of the Cayman government. In exchange for enjoying the ship I want and an itinerary I like, I have to go to the port in GC for 8 hours. Now I'm faced with 3 choices:
  1. Refuse to go to the destinations I DO want because a stop in GC is on the itinerary,
  2. Stay on the ship, in which case the GC government gets my tiny portion of the port fee - but nobody else gets any money, or
  3. Go ashore and patronize businesses bold enough to put up a rainbow flag (even if just for those 8 hours). In that political climate, they know that putting that flag up could bring serious consequences long after we're gone. If I feel they are genuinely accepting, I'll override my pennies that went to the port fee by putting dollars in the pockets of people who are trying to feed their family and pay the light bill. Knowing where that money came from, I'd like to think they will return the support - financially and physically - by joining the groundswell that will someday rise up and demand change.
In short, if my itinerary includes a place where change is needed, I want to help those who can make that change happen.
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Previous Cruises
RCL/Oasis OTS: 14Dec13 • Eastern Caribbean • A great excuse for not being able to make it home to enjoy the stress of the holidays.
RCL/Jewel OTS: 15Sep13 • Southern Caribbean • Wonderful time getting together with our cruising buddies & seeing 5 ports.
RCL/Navigator OTS: 15Dec12 • Western Caribbean • A great pre-Christmas getaway.
RCL/Freedom OTS: 02Sep12 & 09Sep12 (B2B) • Western & Eastern Caribbean • Celebrating "The Big 4-0." The date & time of the birthday passed in International Waters, so it never really happened!
RCL/Freedom OTS: 23Oct11 • Eastern Caribbean • Most stressful week ever - but the cruise was great.
HAL/MS Zuiderdam: 14Oct10 • Southern Caribbean • Loved the destination, couldn't stand the ship/cruise line.
RCL/Freedom OTS: 01Nov09 • Western Caribbean • Turned out we were sailing with "Hogs on the High Seas." What an AWESOME group!
RCL/Mariner OTS: 07Dec08 • Eastern Caribbean • Our first cruise ever! Got us hooked on cruising.

Previous Reviews:
HAL/MS Zuiderdam: 14Oct10 Southern Caribbean
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  #32  
Old June 25th, 2014, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by PolarisKale View Post
(Oh, and as for Africa, they're so far off the homophobia chart that I don't actively promote tours there.)

I do hope you make exceptions for South Africa, the Rainbow Nation.
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RSVP Exotic Caribbean - Zuiderdam Feb 2008
RSVP Eastern Caribbean - Eurodam Feb 2009
Lewis R. French Schooner in Maine - July2009
Labor Day Getaway (Pied Piper) - QM2 Sep 2009
RSVP Southern Caribbean - Eurodam Feb 2010
RSVP Hawaii - Pride of America Oct 2010
RSVP Eastern Caribbean - Nieuw Amsterdam Feb 2012
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  #33  
Old June 25th, 2014, 04:29 PM
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I think out of all our cruises to the Caribbean, we've been there five or six times. We've stayed on the ship in Grand Cayman two or three times because tendering is a pain. I can remember going there three times and actually getting to the island. The first time DH was in a fog due to overdosing on Scopolamine--the seasickness patch. The second time we on a snorkeling excursion. The third time we tendered over later in the day--after the lines had died down--just to walk around a bit.
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  #34  
Old June 26th, 2014, 04:22 PM
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Vivere LaDolceVita Vivere LaDolceVita is offline
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Originally Posted by PolarisKale View Post

In short, if my itinerary includes a place where change is needed, I want to help those who can make that change happen.
Sorry Shepp, I have to agree with PolarisKale here. If your rule is that you refuse to patronize any country that is officially anti-gay, you'd find yourself locked out of most caribbean, south american and asian cruises, and as has been pointed out, you'd probably have to relocate outside of the US considering its continuing refusal to recognize marriage and workplace rights for LGBT citizens.

The better strategy is to spend your tourist dollars as wisely and benignly as possible, realizing that while the world can be a very unfriendly place, that doesn't mean you can't still embrace it. You would be a very provincial traveler indeed if you excluded any location that didn't comport with your sense of justice and public policy.
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  #35  
Old June 27th, 2014, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Vivere LaDolceVita View Post
Sorry Shepp, I have to agree with PolarisKale here. If your rule is that you refuse to patronize any country that is officially anti-gay, you'd find yourself locked out of most caribbean, south american and asian cruises, and as has been pointed out, you'd probably have to relocate outside of the US considering its continuing refusal to recognize marriage and workplace rights for LGBT citizens.

The better strategy is to spend your tourist dollars as wisely and benignly as possible, realizing that while the world can be a very unfriendly place, that doesn't mean you can't still embrace it. You would be a very provincial traveler indeed if you excluded any location that didn't comport with your sense of justice and public policy.
The law was passed last week by President Obama. We now get the same rights, even our partners Social Security. Also if you are married in one state and live in another that does not yet recognized same sex marriage that state now has to recognize that marriage on the Federal level.
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  #36  
Old June 27th, 2014, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by CrusingJoe View Post
The law was passed last week by President Obama. We now get the same rights, even our partners Social Security. Also if you are married in one state and live in another that does not yet recognized same sex marriage that state now has to recognize that marriage on the Federal level.
Sorry my friend, you are misinformed. ENDA has not been passed and Obama has not yet signed any executive order. Even if he did, it would apply to federal contractors ONLY. As for marriage rights, while DOMA has been overturned, and the circuits have been making progress, the Supreme Ct has not yet held a fundamental right to marriage for same sex couples exists. And a majority of states still have constitutional bans on the books.
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  #37  
Old June 27th, 2014, 11:36 AM
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...As for marriage rights, while DOMA has been overturned, and the circuits have been making progress, the Supreme Ct has not yet held a fundamental right to marriage for same sex couples exists. And a majority of states still have constitutional bans on the books.
Sadly true.

We aren't where I'd like us to be. We aren't where we will be. But thank God we aren't where we used to be. Gone are the days when a ceremony could only be a "Civil Union." Still, I'll be glad when I don't have to fly to California to wed friends who live in Colorado, or research the marriage laws of each individual state so I'm sure the vows I say or the location we're in meets local requirements. I love seeing the beautiful places my friends choose for their ceremony, but knowing we have to go somewhere other than home to gain legal standing just reminds me that we're still second-class citizens.

In the words of the late, great Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." In the meantime, we keep doing what we can wherever we travel to help push that speck of the universe in the right direction.
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  #38  
Old June 27th, 2014, 08:18 PM
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In the words of the late, great Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." In the meantime, we keep doing what we can wherever we travel to help push that speck of the universe in the right direction.
Well said.
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  #39  
Old June 30th, 2014, 03:17 AM
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The fact is that you actually proved my point AND spun the discussion toward reductio ad absurdum, twisting my comment to fit your comparison of life in the Caymans to the treatment of Jews in 1936. San Francisco is one of the, if not THE, most accepting cities for the LGBTQ community. Pride is an gathering which welcomes all participants, regardless of gender identity or sexual orientation. I combined these two loving and accepting communities into a metaphor for the most homophile environment imaginable. Homophobia in San Francisco at Pride is like ice in the Sahara: It won't last long before being obliterated. My statement was: if you look for it, you can even find homophobia in San Francisco at Pride. You chose to rebuff my statement by saying, point blank, that there are homophobes in San Francisco. Uhm...thanks for backing me up with facts...I guess?
Well, yeah, my personal reductio was kinda feckless, I guess. And a little knowing. Maybe I should have mentioned the upcoming Olympics in Qatar instead?

But why bring up intolerance in San Francisco, where it is so firmly opposed by both the populace and the body politic, in a discussion of a place where widespread homophobia is fully endorsed by the government? (And by the way, I had a fabulous time at the Parade today, where I marched with the ACLU. I'm sure there were a few straight yahoos...didn't see a one.)

Thing is, I'm really not a provincial travel purist. I've actually visited some pretty horrific countries, civil-liberty-wise. Syria, for example, and Burma. And yes, I tried to minimize my complicity (spending with locals in Burma, e.g, rather than with government-run businesses).

Thing is, I did it with full knowledge of a degree of moral ambiguity on my part, and without indulging in the notion that my merely going there would change anything. (Back when I went to Burma, there was disagreement among Burmese activists, some arguing for complete boycott, others for person-to-person contact from abroad. And, to my self-disappointment, once I got home I didn't do much to support Burmese liberation.)

Since we're quoting King, we might note that he supported both blacks and whites boycotting the Montgomery buses. Boycotting.
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  #40  
Old June 30th, 2014, 10:31 AM
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Maybe I should have mentioned the upcoming Olympics in Qatar instead?
What Olympics in Qatar? They failed in bids for 2016 and 2020.

Maybe you are thinking of the 2022 World Cup?
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