To visit or not to visit Grand Cayman?

Welcome to Cruise Critic! If you'd like to participate on our forums by joining in the conversation, please Register Now! Be sure to visit our FAMOUS Roll Call forums, where you can meet other cruisers sailing with you and share a tour or shore excursion and SAVE MONEY!

Gay & Lesbian Cruisers
A Gathering Place for Discussing Your Favorite Cruises.
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
All times are GMT -4.
The time now is 06:25 PM.
#21
Massachusetts
2,152 Posts
Joined Mar 2002
Originally posted by rlwnsgb
We were there in June of 2012 on a honeymoon cruise. Didn't know about the anti-gay sentiment there and never experienced any negative looks or comments. Stingray City was awesome. Stingrays were like giant puppies. Went there on a group excursion via a catamaran, which also included snorkeling.

Of all the places we've visited as a couple, Las Vegas (Sin City) was the only place we've received unwelcome comments. Go figure...
We to found Las Vegas was a threat. A few years ago when we were there, the police were sitting outside of a gay bar watching people leave and when they got into there cars would pull them over.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Our first cruise was on Carnival Holiday 09-Nov-91 We now have 872 days at sea and 86 future days.
#22
New Hampshire
5,028 Posts
Joined Oct 2005
Originally posted by CrusingJoe
We to found Las Vegas was a threat. A few years ago when we were there, the police were sitting outside of a gay bar watching people leave and when they got into there cars would pull them over.
We were there last year & never had any problem. Did you get pulled over or just "heard" about it from someone? If it happened to me, I'd be filing a harrassment complaint against the cops immediately. Considering the drugs & other crime that takes place there(on the side streets)I'd tend to think the cops have better things to do. So please back up your statement with facts.
#23
Massachusetts
2,152 Posts
Joined Mar 2002
Originally posted by keithm
We were there last year & never had any problem. Did you get pulled over or just "heard" about it from someone? If it happened to me, I'd be filing a harrassment complaint against the cops immediately. Considering the drugs & other crime that takes place there(on the side streets)I'd tend to think the cops have better things to do. So please back up your statement with facts.
No we did not get pulled over. We were told by the bartender what the police was doing and we did observe them in action.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Our first cruise was on Carnival Holiday 09-Nov-91 We now have 872 days at sea and 86 future days.
#24
Cutler Bay, FL
1,887 Posts
Joined Nov 2009
We've been a numb of times, so at this point, we usually stay on the ship and take advantage of the spa discounts....never had any problems there, tho...


Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
MICHIGAN STATE SPARTANS.
CHICAGO WHITE SOX
CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS
MIAMI MARLINS
FLORIDA PANTHERS
CHICAGO BULLS
CHICAGO BEARS

2017--NCL Getaway
2017--Celebrity Reflection
2106--RCCL Independence of the Seas
2106--Celebrity Constellation
2015--NCL Getaway
2015--MSC Divina
2014--MSC Divina
2014--NCL Epic
2013--Carnival Breeze
2013--RCCL Liberty of the Seas
2012--NCL Sky
2012--NCL Sky
2011--NCL Sky
2011--NCL Epic
2010--RCCL Independence of the Seas
2010--Celebrity Century
2009--NCL Pearl
2009--NCL Sky
2009--Carnival Destiny
2009--RCCL Freedom of the Seas
2008--Celebrity Constellation
2007--HAL Westerdam
2007--RCCL Liberty of the Seas
2006--Caribbean Princess
2005--RCCL Brilliance of the Seas
2003--Carnival Imagination
2002--RCCL Monarch of the Seas
2001--RCCL Majesty of the Seas
2000--Carnival Imagination
1999--Carnival Fascination
1998--RCCL Majesty of the Seas
1996--RCCL Majesty of the Seas
1994--NCL Windward
1993--NCL Westward
#25
Kansas City
887 Posts
Joined Oct 2011
Grand Cayman is one of our stops in September, along with Montego Bay. We plan to make Grand Cayman a beach day. As others have said, we do not show PDA. Often times we pass as brothers. We have been to the Bahamas, Barbados, St. Lucia, etc. and have never experienced any problems. We had so much fun in Barbados that we have booked that Southern itinerary again! Save your PDA for your cabin and you shouldn't have any trouble in Grand Cayman.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
#26
Brooklyn, NY
17,471 Posts
Joined Mar 2005
Well, some of us are interracial couples so the brother thing doesn't work.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Peter


Next: RSVP Eastern Caribbean - Koningsdam, February 11-18, 2018

RSVP February Caribbean cruises:
Caribbean Princess 2007 / Zuiderdam 2008 / Eurodam 2009 / Eurodam 2010 / Nieuw Amsterdam 2012
Eurodam 2013
/ MSC Divina 2014 / Regal Princess 2015 / Nieuw Amsterdam 2016 / Koningsdam 2017
RSVP Alaska - Amsterdam Sep 2007
RSVP Hawaii - Pride of America Oct 2010
Lewis R. French Schooner in Maine - July 2009
Labor Day Getaway (Pied Piper) - QM2 Sep 2009

#27
Kansas City
887 Posts
Joined Oct 2011
Originally posted by Boytjie
Well, some of us are interracial couples so the brother thing doesn't work.
Gotcha
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
#28
98 Posts
Joined Oct 2010
Originally posted by diknjoe
...If you prefer not to financially support places that are homophobic, then you should avoid the Bahamas and Jamaica and Grand Cayman.

D&J
While I completely agree on boycotting the homophobic, let's try to remember that the viewpoint of a government is not the viewpoint of all their citizens. We live in Atlanta, and I would hope no one would decide not to patronize my business because Georgia is a fiercely red state.

When it comes to Grand Cayman, some of my most accepting friends have lived / have a place there. When we were there in 2012, we were with the most gay people I've ever seen on a ship. Some in our party were so flaming that I thought they'd create steam at Stingray City! We had a shore excursion with a non-sponsored company. None of us had a single thought about any Cayman reputation of homophobia, because the proprietors & employees of both the excursion company and the restaurant we went to for lunch welcomed us in like family. We haven't encountered any issue on other visits, either.

In most places - and there are definite exceptions - you find what you're looking for. If you're looking for homophobia and negative comments, you're bound to find them even if you're in San Francisco for Pride. My partner (13 1/2 years) and I have traveled extensively without any issues. Granted, my cop father started training me to be a cop as soon as I could walk, and I've done executive protection for politicians, pro athletes, and Fortune 500 CEOs. Now I'm a travel agent with my finger on the pulse of travel news around the world, so I approach some of these scenarios with a different level of awareness & insight than the average bear (or otter, or ....).

The world is changing, and we move it forward by being who we are and living our lives confidently. Go forth and conquer! Just don't try to multiply on your balcony.

(Oh, and as for Africa, they're so far off the homophobia chart that I don't actively promote tours there.)
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Kale
Exploration Experts



Previous Cruises
RCI/Serenade OTS: 13Nov15 • Southern Caribbean • Had a blast with great cruisers and an awesome staff.
NCL/Norwegian Sun: 23Nov14 • Western Caribbean • Met a lot of great people.
RCI/Freedom OTS: 06Jul14 • Western Caribbean • Needed a "hit" for our cruise addiction.
RCI/Oasis OTS: 14Dec13 • Eastern Caribbean • A great excuse for not being able to make it home to enjoy the stress of the holidays.
RCI/Jewel OTS: 15Sep13 • Southern Caribbean • Wonderful time getting together with our cruising buddies & seeing 5 ports.
RCI/Navigator OTS: 15Dec12 • Western Caribbean • A great pre-Christmas getaway.
RCI/Freedom OTS: 02Sep12 & 09Sep12 (B2B) • Western & Eastern Caribbean • Celebrating "The Big 4-0." The date & time of the birthday passed in International Waters, so it never really happened!
RCI/Freedom OTS: 23Oct11 • Eastern Caribbean • Most stressful week ever - but the cruise was great.
HAL/MS Zuiderdam: 14Oct10 • Southern Caribbean • Loved the destination, couldn't stand the ship/cruise line.
RCI/Freedom OTS: 01Nov09 • Western Caribbean • Turned out we were sailing with "Hogs on the High Seas." What an AWESOME group!
RCI/Mariner OTS: 07Dec08 • Eastern Caribbean • Our first cruise ever! Got us hooked on cruising.[/size]
Previous Reviews:
HAL/MS Zuiderdam: 14Oct10 Southern Caribbean
#29
San Francisco
3,801 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
Originally posted by shawne71
Grand Cayman is one of our stops in September, along with Montego Bay. We plan to make Grand Cayman a beach day. As others have said, we do not show PDA. Often times we pass as brothers. We have been to the Bahamas, Barbados, St. Lucia, etc. and have never experienced any problems. We had so much fun in Barbados that we have booked that Southern itinerary again! Save your PDA for your cabin and you shouldn't have any trouble in Grand Cayman.
To quote Arthur Frommer's guidebook: "None of the islands in the Caribbean are completely gay-friendly, even more liberal destinations like Puerto Rico and St. Croix. But the government of the Cayman Islands has been particularly vocal and unapologetic in expressing its anti-gay attitudes."

Now, I personally went to Grand Cayman while shunning Jamaica, but now am reassessing that dividing line. You may, in fact, make an entirely different choice about where you choose to spend your tourist dollars, as is your right.

But one way or the other, I find the argument that it's OK to visit an anti-gay country as long as you play their game and stay in the the closet to be rather unpersuasive. (Particularly as the queers who actually live there do not have so easy an option.)
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
1/06 Westerdam -W. Caribbean * 1/07 Dawn Princess - Mexican Riviera * 1/08 Zuiderdam - E. Caribbean * 4/08 Celebrity Mercury - Alaska * 12/09 Crown Princess - W. Caribbean * 8/10 Sea Princess - Alaska * 1/11 Sapphire Princess - Mexican Riviera * 4/11 Island Princess - Panama full transit * 8/11 Sea Princess - Alaska * 2/12 Grand Princess - E. Caribbean * 4/12 Coral Princess - Panama full transit * 12/12 Star Princess - SFO to Buenos Aires * 4/13 Golden Princess - Hawaii * 10/13 Royal Princess - Venice to FLL * 2/14 Sapphire Princess - Mexican Riviera * 8/14 Star Princess - Alaska * 10/14 Victoria Anna - Yangtze River * 12/14 Coral Princess - Panama partial transit * 2/15 Star Princess - Sea of Cortez * 7/15 Diamond Princess - Japan * 11/15 Grand Princess - Hawaii * 9/16 Caribbean Princess - Southampton to New York * 1/17 Grand Princess - Mexican Riviera * 5/17 Celebrity Xpedition - Galapagos * 9/17 Grand Princess - Alaska
#30
San Francisco
3,801 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
Originally posted by PolarisKale
In most places - and there are definite exceptions - you find what you're looking for. If you're looking for homophobia and negative comments, you're bound to find them even if you're in San Francisco for Pride.
I'm sorry, but reductio your ad absurdum elsewhere. I happen to live in San Francisco, and yes, there are half a dozen religious maniacs who stand on Market Street on Saturday afternoon and make nasty homophobic comments. But I just walked home from the 11-day LGBT film festival, holding the hand of my husband, whom I married at City Hall, and no one gave us a second glance. Explain to me again, please, how that is in any way comparable to a country where there are no gay bars, where same-sex couples have no legal standing, where the government takes virulently anti-gay stances, and LGBT people have no civil rights protections?

Sure, no place is perfect, or even near-perfect. But "Why not go to the 1936 Berlin Olympics? There's anti-Semitism in New York City, too." is a weakish argument.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
1/06 Westerdam -W. Caribbean * 1/07 Dawn Princess - Mexican Riviera * 1/08 Zuiderdam - E. Caribbean * 4/08 Celebrity Mercury - Alaska * 12/09 Crown Princess - W. Caribbean * 8/10 Sea Princess - Alaska * 1/11 Sapphire Princess - Mexican Riviera * 4/11 Island Princess - Panama full transit * 8/11 Sea Princess - Alaska * 2/12 Grand Princess - E. Caribbean * 4/12 Coral Princess - Panama full transit * 12/12 Star Princess - SFO to Buenos Aires * 4/13 Golden Princess - Hawaii * 10/13 Royal Princess - Venice to FLL * 2/14 Sapphire Princess - Mexican Riviera * 8/14 Star Princess - Alaska * 10/14 Victoria Anna - Yangtze River * 12/14 Coral Princess - Panama partial transit * 2/15 Star Princess - Sea of Cortez * 7/15 Diamond Princess - Japan * 11/15 Grand Princess - Hawaii * 9/16 Caribbean Princess - Southampton to New York * 1/17 Grand Princess - Mexican Riviera * 5/17 Celebrity Xpedition - Galapagos * 9/17 Grand Princess - Alaska
#31
98 Posts
Joined Oct 2010
Originally posted by shepp
I'm sorry, but reductio your ad absurdum elsewhere. I happen to live in San Francisco, and yes, there are half a dozen religious maniacs who stand on Market Street on Saturday afternoon and make nasty homophobic comments. But I just walked home from the 11-day LGBT film festival, holding the hand of my husband, whom I married at City Hall, and no one gave us a second glance. Explain to me again, please, how that is in any way comparable to a country where there are no gay bars, where same-sex couples have no legal standing, where the government takes virulently anti-gay stances, and LGBT people have no civil rights protections?

Sure, no place is perfect, or even near-perfect. But "Why not go to the 1936 Berlin Olympics? There's anti-Semitism in New York City, too." is a weakish argument.
To clarify, you want me to reduction my to absurdity elsewhere???

The fact is that you actually proved my point AND spun the discussion toward reductio ad absurdum, twisting my comment to fit your comparison of life in the Caymans to the treatment of Jews in 1936. San Francisco is one of the, if not THE, most accepting cities for the LGBTQ community. Pride is an gathering which welcomes all participants, regardless of gender identity or sexual orientation. I combined these two loving and accepting communities into a metaphor for the most homophile environment imaginable. Homophobia in San Francisco at Pride is like ice in the Sahara: It won't last long before being obliterated. My statement was: if you look for it, you can even find homophobia in San Francisco at Pride. You chose to rebuff my statement by saying, point blank, that there are homophobes in San Francisco. Uhm...thanks for backing me up with facts...I guess?

Do I think the hatred and fear spewed by the Cayman government is acceptable? Absolutely not. Under no circumstances would I choose a Grand Cayman resort as my week-long vacation destination. That being said, I'm going on a cruise in just over a week. As it happens, Grand Cayman is one of our ports of call. Royal Caribbean is not going to change their itinerary because of the ignorance of the Cayman government. In exchange for enjoying the ship I want and an itinerary I like, I have to go to the port in GC for 8 hours. Now I'm faced with 3 choices:
  1. Refuse to go to the destinations I DO want because a stop in GC is on the itinerary,
  2. Stay on the ship, in which case the GC government gets my tiny portion of the port fee - but nobody else gets any money, or
  3. Go ashore and patronize businesses bold enough to put up a rainbow flag (even if just for those 8 hours). In that political climate, they know that putting that flag up could bring serious consequences long after we're gone. If I feel they are genuinely accepting, I'll override my pennies that went to the port fee by putting dollars in the pockets of people who are trying to feed their family and pay the light bill. Knowing where that money came from, I'd like to think they will return the support - financially and physically - by joining the groundswell that will someday rise up and demand change.
In short, if my itinerary includes a place where change is needed, I want to help those who can make that change happen.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Kale
Exploration Experts



Previous Cruises
RCI/Serenade OTS: 13Nov15 • Southern Caribbean • Had a blast with great cruisers and an awesome staff.
NCL/Norwegian Sun: 23Nov14 • Western Caribbean • Met a lot of great people.
RCI/Freedom OTS: 06Jul14 • Western Caribbean • Needed a "hit" for our cruise addiction.
RCI/Oasis OTS: 14Dec13 • Eastern Caribbean • A great excuse for not being able to make it home to enjoy the stress of the holidays.
RCI/Jewel OTS: 15Sep13 • Southern Caribbean • Wonderful time getting together with our cruising buddies & seeing 5 ports.
RCI/Navigator OTS: 15Dec12 • Western Caribbean • A great pre-Christmas getaway.
RCI/Freedom OTS: 02Sep12 & 09Sep12 (B2B) • Western & Eastern Caribbean • Celebrating "The Big 4-0." The date & time of the birthday passed in International Waters, so it never really happened!
RCI/Freedom OTS: 23Oct11 • Eastern Caribbean • Most stressful week ever - but the cruise was great.
HAL/MS Zuiderdam: 14Oct10 • Southern Caribbean • Loved the destination, couldn't stand the ship/cruise line.
RCI/Freedom OTS: 01Nov09 • Western Caribbean • Turned out we were sailing with "Hogs on the High Seas." What an AWESOME group!
RCI/Mariner OTS: 07Dec08 • Eastern Caribbean • Our first cruise ever! Got us hooked on cruising.[/size]
Previous Reviews:
HAL/MS Zuiderdam: 14Oct10 Southern Caribbean
#32
Brooklyn, NY
17,471 Posts
Joined Mar 2005
Originally posted by PolarisKale
(Oh, and as for Africa, they're so far off the homophobia chart that I don't actively promote tours there.)

I do hope you make exceptions for South Africa, the Rainbow Nation.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Peter


Next: RSVP Eastern Caribbean - Koningsdam, February 11-18, 2018

RSVP February Caribbean cruises:
Caribbean Princess 2007 / Zuiderdam 2008 / Eurodam 2009 / Eurodam 2010 / Nieuw Amsterdam 2012
Eurodam 2013
/ MSC Divina 2014 / Regal Princess 2015 / Nieuw Amsterdam 2016 / Koningsdam 2017
RSVP Alaska - Amsterdam Sep 2007
RSVP Hawaii - Pride of America Oct 2010
Lewis R. French Schooner in Maine - July 2009
Labor Day Getaway (Pied Piper) - QM2 Sep 2009

#33
Raleigh, N.C.
11,268 Posts
Joined Jul 2002
I think out of all our cruises to the Caribbean, we've been there five or six times. We've stayed on the ship in Grand Cayman two or three times because tendering is a pain. I can remember going there three times and actually getting to the island. The first time DH was in a fog due to overdosing on Scopolamine--the seasickness patch. The second time we on a snorkeling excursion. The third time we tendered over later in the day--after the lines had died down--just to walk around a bit.
#34
New York
144 Posts
Joined Aug 2013
Originally posted by PolarisKale

In short, if my itinerary includes a place where change is needed, I want to help those who can make that change happen.
Sorry Shepp, I have to agree with PolarisKale here. If your rule is that you refuse to patronize any country that is officially anti-gay, you'd find yourself locked out of most caribbean, south american and asian cruises, and as has been pointed out, you'd probably have to relocate outside of the US considering its continuing refusal to recognize marriage and workplace rights for LGBT citizens.

The better strategy is to spend your tourist dollars as wisely and benignly as possible, realizing that while the world can be a very unfriendly place, that doesn't mean you can't still embrace it. You would be a very provincial traveler indeed if you excluded any location that didn't comport with your sense of justice and public policy.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Cruising History:
Celebrity Zenith (August 1999)
RCI Splendour of the Seas (July 2007)
RCI Liberty of the Seas (March 2013)
Celebrity Reflection (November 2013)
NCL Sky (March 2014)
Celebrity Silhouette (November 2014)
Celebrity Equinox (July 2016)
#35
Massachusetts
2,152 Posts
Joined Mar 2002
Originally posted by Vivere LaDolceVita
Sorry Shepp, I have to agree with PolarisKale here. If your rule is that you refuse to patronize any country that is officially anti-gay, you'd find yourself locked out of most caribbean, south american and asian cruises, and as has been pointed out, you'd probably have to relocate outside of the US considering its continuing refusal to recognize marriage and workplace rights for LGBT citizens.

The better strategy is to spend your tourist dollars as wisely and benignly as possible, realizing that while the world can be a very unfriendly place, that doesn't mean you can't still embrace it. You would be a very provincial traveler indeed if you excluded any location that didn't comport with your sense of justice and public policy.
The law was passed last week by President Obama. We now get the same rights, even our partners Social Security. Also if you are married in one state and live in another that does not yet recognized same sex marriage that state now has to recognize that marriage on the Federal level.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Our first cruise was on Carnival Holiday 09-Nov-91 We now have 872 days at sea and 86 future days.
#36
New York
144 Posts
Joined Aug 2013
Originally posted by CrusingJoe
The law was passed last week by President Obama. We now get the same rights, even our partners Social Security. Also if you are married in one state and live in another that does not yet recognized same sex marriage that state now has to recognize that marriage on the Federal level.
Sorry my friend, you are misinformed. ENDA has not been passed and Obama has not yet signed any executive order. Even if he did, it would apply to federal contractors ONLY. As for marriage rights, while DOMA has been overturned, and the circuits have been making progress, the Supreme Ct has not yet held a fundamental right to marriage for same sex couples exists. And a majority of states still have constitutional bans on the books.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Cruising History:
Celebrity Zenith (August 1999)
RCI Splendour of the Seas (July 2007)
RCI Liberty of the Seas (March 2013)
Celebrity Reflection (November 2013)
NCL Sky (March 2014)
Celebrity Silhouette (November 2014)
Celebrity Equinox (July 2016)
#37
98 Posts
Joined Oct 2010
Originally posted by Vivere LaDolceVita
...As for marriage rights, while DOMA has been overturned, and the circuits have been making progress, the Supreme Ct has not yet held a fundamental right to marriage for same sex couples exists. And a majority of states still have constitutional bans on the books.
Sadly true.

We aren't where I'd like us to be. We aren't where we will be. But thank God we aren't where we used to be. Gone are the days when a ceremony could only be a "Civil Union." Still, I'll be glad when I don't have to fly to California to wed friends who live in Colorado, or research the marriage laws of each individual state so I'm sure the vows I say or the location we're in meets local requirements. I love seeing the beautiful places my friends choose for their ceremony, but knowing we have to go somewhere other than home to gain legal standing just reminds me that we're still second-class citizens.

In the words of the late, great Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." In the meantime, we keep doing what we can wherever we travel to help push that speck of the universe in the right direction.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Kale
Exploration Experts



Previous Cruises
RCI/Serenade OTS: 13Nov15 • Southern Caribbean • Had a blast with great cruisers and an awesome staff.
NCL/Norwegian Sun: 23Nov14 • Western Caribbean • Met a lot of great people.
RCI/Freedom OTS: 06Jul14 • Western Caribbean • Needed a "hit" for our cruise addiction.
RCI/Oasis OTS: 14Dec13 • Eastern Caribbean • A great excuse for not being able to make it home to enjoy the stress of the holidays.
RCI/Jewel OTS: 15Sep13 • Southern Caribbean • Wonderful time getting together with our cruising buddies & seeing 5 ports.
RCI/Navigator OTS: 15Dec12 • Western Caribbean • A great pre-Christmas getaway.
RCI/Freedom OTS: 02Sep12 & 09Sep12 (B2B) • Western & Eastern Caribbean • Celebrating "The Big 4-0." The date & time of the birthday passed in International Waters, so it never really happened!
RCI/Freedom OTS: 23Oct11 • Eastern Caribbean • Most stressful week ever - but the cruise was great.
HAL/MS Zuiderdam: 14Oct10 • Southern Caribbean • Loved the destination, couldn't stand the ship/cruise line.
RCI/Freedom OTS: 01Nov09 • Western Caribbean • Turned out we were sailing with "Hogs on the High Seas." What an AWESOME group!
RCI/Mariner OTS: 07Dec08 • Eastern Caribbean • Our first cruise ever! Got us hooked on cruising.[/size]
Previous Reviews:
HAL/MS Zuiderdam: 14Oct10 Southern Caribbean
#38
New York
144 Posts
Joined Aug 2013
Originally posted by PolarisKale
In the words of the late, great Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." In the meantime, we keep doing what we can wherever we travel to help push that speck of the universe in the right direction.
Well said.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Cruising History:
Celebrity Zenith (August 1999)
RCI Splendour of the Seas (July 2007)
RCI Liberty of the Seas (March 2013)
Celebrity Reflection (November 2013)
NCL Sky (March 2014)
Celebrity Silhouette (November 2014)
Celebrity Equinox (July 2016)
#39
San Francisco
3,801 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
Originally posted by PolarisKale
The fact is that you actually proved my point AND spun the discussion toward reductio ad absurdum, twisting my comment to fit your comparison of life in the Caymans to the treatment of Jews in 1936. San Francisco is one of the, if not THE, most accepting cities for the LGBTQ community. Pride is an gathering which welcomes all participants, regardless of gender identity or sexual orientation. I combined these two loving and accepting communities into a metaphor for the most homophile environment imaginable. Homophobia in San Francisco at Pride is like ice in the Sahara: It won't last long before being obliterated. My statement was: if you look for it, you can even find homophobia in San Francisco at Pride. You chose to rebuff my statement by saying, point blank, that there are homophobes in San Francisco. Uhm...thanks for backing me up with facts...I guess?
Well, yeah, my personal reductio was kinda feckless, I guess. And a little knowing. Maybe I should have mentioned the upcoming Olympics in Qatar instead?

But why bring up intolerance in San Francisco, where it is so firmly opposed by both the populace and the body politic, in a discussion of a place where widespread homophobia is fully endorsed by the government? (And by the way, I had a fabulous time at the Parade today, where I marched with the ACLU. I'm sure there were a few straight yahoos...didn't see a one.)

Thing is, I'm really not a provincial travel purist. I've actually visited some pretty horrific countries, civil-liberty-wise. Syria, for example, and Burma. And yes, I tried to minimize my complicity (spending with locals in Burma, e.g, rather than with government-run businesses).

Thing is, I did it with full knowledge of a degree of moral ambiguity on my part, and without indulging in the notion that my merely going there would change anything. (Back when I went to Burma, there was disagreement among Burmese activists, some arguing for complete boycott, others for person-to-person contact from abroad. And, to my self-disappointment, once I got home I didn't do much to support Burmese liberation.)

Since we're quoting King, we might note that he supported both blacks and whites boycotting the Montgomery buses. Boycotting.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
1/06 Westerdam -W. Caribbean * 1/07 Dawn Princess - Mexican Riviera * 1/08 Zuiderdam - E. Caribbean * 4/08 Celebrity Mercury - Alaska * 12/09 Crown Princess - W. Caribbean * 8/10 Sea Princess - Alaska * 1/11 Sapphire Princess - Mexican Riviera * 4/11 Island Princess - Panama full transit * 8/11 Sea Princess - Alaska * 2/12 Grand Princess - E. Caribbean * 4/12 Coral Princess - Panama full transit * 12/12 Star Princess - SFO to Buenos Aires * 4/13 Golden Princess - Hawaii * 10/13 Royal Princess - Venice to FLL * 2/14 Sapphire Princess - Mexican Riviera * 8/14 Star Princess - Alaska * 10/14 Victoria Anna - Yangtze River * 12/14 Coral Princess - Panama partial transit * 2/15 Star Princess - Sea of Cortez * 7/15 Diamond Princess - Japan * 11/15 Grand Princess - Hawaii * 9/16 Caribbean Princess - Southampton to New York * 1/17 Grand Princess - Mexican Riviera * 5/17 Celebrity Xpedition - Galapagos * 9/17 Grand Princess - Alaska
#40
Brooklyn, NY
17,471 Posts
Joined Mar 2005
Originally posted by shepp
Maybe I should have mentioned the upcoming Olympics in Qatar instead?
What Olympics in Qatar? They failed in bids for 2016 and 2020.

Maybe you are thinking of the 2022 World Cup?
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
Peter


Next: RSVP Eastern Caribbean - Koningsdam, February 11-18, 2018

RSVP February Caribbean cruises:
Caribbean Princess 2007 / Zuiderdam 2008 / Eurodam 2009 / Eurodam 2010 / Nieuw Amsterdam 2012
Eurodam 2013
/ MSC Divina 2014 / Regal Princess 2015 / Nieuw Amsterdam 2016 / Koningsdam 2017
RSVP Alaska - Amsterdam Sep 2007
RSVP Hawaii - Pride of America Oct 2010
Lewis R. French Schooner in Maine - July 2009
Labor Day Getaway (Pied Piper) - QM2 Sep 2009