Oceana - "FAMILY FRIENDLY"????????

[davedex]

Just returned from Med cruise on board Oceana and thought i would let you know what i believe Fun Loving & Family friendly means in P & O's eyes. (The words used to describe this particular ship in the fleet in the brochure)

This was a ½term, school holiday 13 night trip on 'The most family friendly ship in the fleet" (the words of one of the officers on board - not mine) to the Western Med. When looking at the Horizon paper on board it advises of activities such as: ADULT shuffleboard, ADULT deck quoits, Talks on aches & pains, ADULT table tennis,ADULT karaoke, ADULT talent shows, Photography talks, etc, etc! Dont get me wrong there was a family film shown on one day (Disney film: UP) but it was scheduled to screen on the morning when everyone was ashore in Gibraltar!!! There were 6 sea days on this trip - could it not have been shown on one of these days? There was actually a family magic show (but this was put on at a time that clashed with 1st sitting for dinner), There was a chocolate party (just before kids tea). There was no Family disco because the youth team were not allowed a room & the family pool olympics was monopolised by adults so children were told to sit on the side & watch ( at least they were allowed out i suppose!)

I spoke to several people on board and it seems that the extent of the family friendly is actually allowing children on board, There was a strong feeling of "children should not be seen or heard & should be sent to the kids clubs as soon as poosible" whilst the parents are encouraged to go & do their thing. This in my opinion is not very family minded. The staff in the kids club do a fantastic job and our kids loved it there but there was hardly anything we could do as a family. Lynne (the fantastic Youth Director) has to fight to get any space where she can stage events & the wrinklies obviously won on this cruise.

As childern are moved around the ship by the kids club staff, they chant a song which the children repeat (American chain-gang style), on this cruise they had to stop because someone complained in Magnums Bar - OMG how offensive is it to hear some young children - maximum age 8 - singing!!!!! again the wrinklies won!!! I believe that the whole cruise was Mis-marketed ( which the cruise director Rob Boyd) agreed with and P&O apart from hiking their fares up for ½term, did nothing to actually encourage & welcome families on board.

People who have children dont have as much choice as people who dont - why dont these miserable so & so's choose to go on "child free" ships such as Arcadia or Artemis if the sight & sounds of a child is so repulisive for them???

I have other examples but would be interested to hear your comments first.

[Suebiker]

Originally Posted by davedex

Just returned from Med cruise on board Oceana and thought i would let you know what i believe Fun Loving & Family friendly means in P & O's eyes. (The words used to describe this particular ship in the fleet in the brochure)

This was a ½term, school holiday 13 night trip on 'The most family friendly ship in the fleet" (the words of one of the officers on board - not mine) to the Western Med. When looking at the Horizon paper on board it advises of activities such as: ADULT shuffleboard, ADULT deck quoits, Talks on aches & pains, ADULT table tennis,ADULT karaoke, ADULT talent shows, Photography talks, etc, etc! Dont get me wrong there was a family film shown on one day (Disney film: UP) but it was scheduled to screen on the morning when everyone was ashore in Gibraltar!!! There were 6 sea days on this trip - could it not have been shown on one of these days? There was actually a family magic show (but this was put on at a time that clashed with 1st sitting for dinner), There was a chocolate party (just before kids tea). There was no Family disco because the youth team were not allowed a room & the family pool olympics was monopolised by adults so children were told to sit on the side & watch ( at least they were allowed out i suppose!)

I spoke to several people on board and it seems that the extent of the family friendly is actually allowing children on board, There was a strong feeling of "children should not be seen or heard & should be sent to the kids clubs as soon as poosible" whilst the parents are encouraged to go & do their thing. This in my opinion is not very family minded. The staff in the kids club do a fantastic job and our kids loved it there but there was hardly anything we could do as a family. Lynne (the fantastic Youth Director) has to fight to get any space where she can stage events & the wrinklies obviously won on this cruise.

As childern are moved around the ship by the kids club staff, they chant a song which the children repeat (American chain-gang style), on this cruise they had to stop because someone complained in Magnums Bar - OMG how offensive is it to hear some young children - maximum age 8 - singing!!!!! again the wrinklies won!!! I believe that the whole cruise was Mis-marketed ( which the cruise director Rob Boyd) agreed with and P&O apart from hiking their fares up for ½term, did nothing to actually encourage & welcome families on board.

People who have children dont have as much choice as people who dont - why dont these miserable so & so's choose to go on "child free" ships such as Arcadia or Artemis if the sight & sounds of a child is so repulisive for them???

I have other examples but would be interested to hear your comments first.

So sorry to hear you had such a miserable time. It is so dissapointing when you don't get what you paid for. As for the miserable people moaning about the children onboard unfortunately you get them on all cruise ships. However I am suprised that the staff did not provide much in the way of entertainment for the lo's . I wonder if the problem is down to the size of the kids clubs - if I remember rightly they are not that huge on Oceana. We recently went on Ventura had had a fabulous time - the kids clubs are huge and there is enough room to stage small shows and contests in the actual kids clubs themselves. They also had family talent shows, pirate party, scalextric's, magic shows, fancy dress to name but a few. Most of these were done in one of the lounges/bar area. They had Noddy's birthday party complete with games and singing. We had Noddy olympics. Pool games - which were kids only.Circus skills and bungee.The only thing I can think of is that it is down to the size of the ship and the size of the kids clubs. It sounds as though the staff were trying but did not have the facilities they needed. I do also think alot depend on the Youth Director too. I think they can make or break it. Mark on Ventura was awesome - I sure if some one had complained about the kids singing - he would have dealt with it and there no way it would have been stopped!!!!

It does sound like you have had a very different experience from us which I find very sad.

Have you written to complain?

Sue

[LibraLass41]

Yes do write to HO and complain....
Don't forget though there will be 2000 passengers onboard and at most 200 or so kids, I don't think you can complain about deck quoits being arranged for the other 90% of passengers!

If my children were young and I could afford to cruise (i had to be content with a caravan or cottage in Exmouth or Cornwall when mine were small) I would choose Independence of the Seas for a family cruise - looked fab for kids.

[ROSEBASKETS]

Originally Posted by davedex

Just returned from Med cruise on board Oceana and thought i would let you know what i believe Fun Loving & Family friendly means in P & O's eyes. (The words used to describe this particular ship in the fleet in the brochure)

This was a ½term, school holiday 13 night trip on 'The most family friendly ship in the fleet" (the words of one of the officers on board - not mine) to the Western Med. When looking at the Horizon paper on board it advises of activities such as: ADULT shuffleboard, ADULT deck quoits, Talks on aches & pains, ADULT table tennis,ADULT karaoke, ADULT talent shows, Photography talks, etc, etc! Dont get me wrong there was a family film shown on one day (Disney film: UP) but it was scheduled to screen on the morning when everyone was ashore in Gibraltar!!! There were 6 sea days on this trip - could it not have been shown on one of these days? There was actually a family magic show (but this was put on at a time that clashed with 1st sitting for dinner), There was a chocolate party (just before kids tea). There was no Family disco because the youth team were not allowed a room & the family pool olympics was monopolised by adults so children were told to sit on the side & watch ( at least they were allowed out i suppose!)

I spoke to several people on board and it seems that the extent of the family friendly is actually allowing children on board, There was a strong feeling of "children should not be seen or heard & should be sent to the kids clubs as soon as poosible" whilst the parents are encouraged to go & do their thing. This in my opinion is not very family minded. The staff in the kids club do a fantastic job and our kids loved it there but there was hardly anything we could do as a family. Lynne (the fantastic Youth Director) has to fight to get any space where she can stage events & the wrinklies obviously won on this cruise.

As childern are moved around the ship by the kids club staff, they chant a song which the children repeat (American chain-gang style), on this cruise they had to stop because someone complained in Magnums Bar - OMG how offensive is it to hear some young children - maximum age 8 - singing!!!!! again the wrinklies won!!! I believe that the whole cruise was Mis-marketed ( which the cruise director Rob Boyd) agreed with and P&O apart from hiking their fares up for ½term, did nothing to actually encourage & welcome families on board.

People who have children dont have as much choice as people who dont - why dont these miserable so & so's choose to go on "child free" ships such as Arcadia or Artemis if the sight & sounds of a child is so repulisive for them???

I have other examples but would be interested to hear your comments first.

AAaaaahhhhhhhhhh! It's SOOOOO annoying isn't it. Half term on P&O's most family friendly ship and the oldies moan constantly. Why do people who DON'T want to be around kids go on a cruise on the ship which P&O push as the best for families during THE SCHOOL HOLIDAYS?

Are there not enough child free ships around? Children have as much right to be on the ship as adults, with access to the same facilities and amenities as the adults. No doubt you paid more than your fellow passengers to take your kids with you, but tell that to the adults on board and they go mad.

Someone complained about an organised activity where kids march around singing! Well that just about sums up P&O passengers and indeed you'll get no sympathy from the majority on here who think kids should be seen and not heard.

Most people would normally look up from their sunbeds, smile, comment that it was nice to see kids enjoyng themselves and settle back down, but some passengers cannot stand "fun" from kids, they go on holiday specifically to moan and it's usually at the kids. I think that they would like to see the child catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang employed on the ships and have them locked in the brig for the duration.

Obviously family fun in the pool means adult fun, they showed a family film during the morning in Gib because if there dared have shown it any other time the oldies would have moaned.

I was on the receiving end of the best complaint ever from a group of four passengers on P&O 18 months ago. We went down for a "fun" quiz, which happened to be on Children's TV, we had our 6 year old with us at the time and one team of 4 "winklies" asked for us to be disqualified as it was unfair having a child on our team.... (the quiz master apologised to us for their behaviour) Only on P&O!

If Victor Meldrew was to holiday his first choice would be P&O so he could be with as many like mined individuals as possible.

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

Interesting post. Most complaints are about too many children. At ADULT shuffleboard and ADULT table tennis were families actually banned? In my experience families are welcome at shuffleboard and the teenagers usually win the table tennis.

On a recent cruise I did hear parents were asked to accompany children to activities as the entertainment staff were not suitably vetted. This did not apply to childrens activities beecause the children staff were approved.

I can uderstand that other passengers might have a problem with badly behaved unacompanied children. Why would anybody have a concern about a well behaved, family or supervised childrens group.

In my view children and families are well catered for in society today with family restaurants, tax credit, trust funds, family holiday resorts, family pubs, family parking bays, family friendly employement, baby changing facilities, child prices on trains, etc.

We were all children once. I was in a DIY store with my parents where they had a display of burglar alarms. Like any inquisative child I pressed a button. The alarm went off and it took several shop assistants some minutes to silence it. My mother apologised and said she had never been more emabaressed ( since the inciden with the escalator stop button in Debenhams ) by her children. I was twenty five at the time.

Best wishes, Stephen.

[davedex]

Originally Posted by Suebiker

So sorry to hear you had such a miserable time. It is so dissapointing when you don't get what you paid for. As for the miserable people moaning about the children onboard unfortunately you get them on all cruise ships - Yes Sue I agree, why dont they go & find a week in a hotel in Dorset or somewhere with Sherings where they can moan to their hearts content. The itinary was badly marketed to the wrong clientelle bearing in mind it was a half term holiday. In the summer, accoring to the cruise director, there is lots on board for families to do - why should ½term be any different?

However I am suprised that the staff did not provide much in the way of entertainment for the lo's. - the reef team did provide lots of stuff for the kids in the kids clubs but hardly anything that we could do as a family.


I wonder if the problem is down to the size of the kids clubs - if I remember rightly they are not that huge on Oceana. We recently went on Ventura had had a fabulous time - the kids clubs are huge and there is enough room to stage small shows and contests in the actual kids clubs themselves. They also had family talent shows, pirate party, scalextric's, magic shows, fancy dress to name but a few. Most of these were done in one of the lounges/bar area. They had Noddy's birthday party complete with games and singing. We had Noddy olympics. Pool games - which were kids only.Circus skills and bungee.The only thing I can think of is that it is down to the size of the ship and the size of the kids clubs. It sounds as though the staff were trying but did not have the facilities they needed - The size of the ship is most of the problem in that the youth director has a contstant battle to get anywhere to use as the kids clubs are not big enough to stage events in. I remember when we were on Ventura that there are lots more venues to hold events in and bigger clubs.

I do also think alot depend on the Youth Director too. I think they can make or break it. Mark on Ventura was awesome - I sure if some one had complained about the kids singing - he would have dealt with it and there no way it would have been stopped!!!! - Lynne Bianchi was fantastic & i can not praise the work that she does enough, but she is constantly battling with the cruise director to get rooms. (she was not even told that the Disney film was on board & when we told her she had to ask to get it so that she could show it in one of the kids slumber nights)

It does sound like you have had a very different experience from us which I find very sad.

Have you written to complain? - Not yet, but will do.

Sue

Sue - I think that our past cruises on OV have spoilt us as they actually seem to be able to make people feel welcome!

[davedex]

Originally Posted by LibraLass41

If my children were young and I could afford to cruise (i had to be content with a caravan or cottage in Exmouth or Cornwall when mine were small) I would choose Independence of the Seas for a family cruise - looked fab for kids.

We had already done Indi and have already booked to go on this one again but was looking for an alternative ship to fill the void that Ocean Village has left behind since teh Aussies 'nicked' a sucessful UK product ( not to everyones tastes - but a very sucessful product none the less)

[steelerannie]

We went on Ventura last November, so obviously not many kids on board - probably around 20 - 30. At night when we were sat outside having a pre dinner drink the kids club walked through with a crocodile of kids all singing pirate songs - it was lovely!! I can't understand why anyone wouldd complain about this!!

Although our kids had grown up I went to have a nosy at the kids club and it was fantastic!! I wish there'd been something like this when our kids were younger.

Talking of miserable old so and so's though, we were sat near the jacuzzi and an old couple (65 - 70 ish) sat right in front of it. Four blokes went in and were splashing and chucking water around for ages and old biddies never said a word. Then a couple of little girls went in (probably aged around 5) and they started splashing and these two old codgers got up and started giving them some right verbal!!! Poor kids burst into tears and ran off!!! Why they were on Ventura is beyond me - it's not really a couples ship for old biddies is it?

A couple of nights later they were our table companians and they were the rudest, most obnoxious couple I've ever come across!! We avoided them like the plague afterwards.

[daiB]

So what is your complaint?

"This was a ½term, school holiday 13 night trip on 'The most family friendly ship in the fleet" (the words of one of the officers on board - not mine) to the Western Med. When looking at the Horizon paper on board it advises of activities such as: ADULT shuffleboard, ADULT deck quoits, Talks on aches & pains, ADULT table tennis,ADULT karaoke, ADULT talent shows,"

This is the same on all ships, and remember Ventura, Oriana, and Aurora are all family ships with about the same proportion of children. On all ships the chidrens activities do not make it onto the daily paper.

You are clearly taking the P&O advertising too literally, in reality apart from no infromal nights there is little difference between the Oceana and Ventura, Aurora and Oriana and indeed Azura when she comes along.

This is one of the problems with Ventura, she has been labled by P&O a 'Family Ship' and people are put off. When we were on her in the Caribbean there were only about 60 children on the cruise.

As I have said before I have no problem with children at all. But P&O seem to get themselves into hot water by putting ships into catogories, when in reality there is little difference in the experiance on any of the ships.



Happy Cruising





Dai

[davedex]

"This is the same on all ships, and remember Ventura, Oriana, and Aurora are all family ships with about the same proportion of children. On all ships the chidrens activities do not make it onto the daily paper."

I totally understand what you say but believe that you may have missed what i am saying, I dont expect childrens activites to get into the daily paper but see no reason (especially as there was a higher % of children on board for ½ term) I guess that my complaint is: Why could these activities not be advertised as FAMILY events? That way, families who wanted to take their children along to an event could do, without fear of being tutted at by wrinklies who seem intent on making the future cruisers of tommorow totally UNWELCOME! I am sure that the younger generations may grow up to think that cruising is still something that only the 60+ age group can do.

If P & O want to market these ships as family friendly, then i feel as though they should welcome families and provide entertainment that families can do together in a relaxed way, rather that treating them as 2 separate entities - parents & children on board (who have child minders in kids clubs).

I think that Ventura is better purely because it has the venues to be able to stage family events and feel as though Azura will be the same (although been told by CD on Oceana that it will be aimed at P& O's old values - bridge clubs, ballroom dancing, white glove service etc! - isn't that what Cunard is for?).

Appreciate your comments none the less.


Dai[/quote]

[daiB]

Hi Dave,

The persons to blame for this confusion are the marketing people of P&O. Azura is still going to have the same kids clubs as Ventura with the potential of the same number of children on board.

Most of our early cruises were in school holidays, as I was a teacher, but I cannot ever remember there being a great deal of 'family activities' being organised. I may be wrong as I would not have been looking for them.

To be honest I have not come across this criticism before. But the more I think about it the childrens activities tend to be in and around the kids clubs and not particularly for whole families.

Perhaps you should write to P&O. They may not have thought about it in this way.


Happy Cruising





Dai

[History addict]

Consider also the point of view of adults. Very few ships cater for adults only so inevitably a lot of adults end up on other ships. It isn't only the 60+ brigade who may want adult only activities without kids being involved.

Personally I don't mind well behaved older kids taking part in activities but if you advertise things as family oriented then you may have younger kids running riot or even doting parents who think they can involve their 1 year old toddler and hold up the process (I've seen this many times!).

I know I sound a misery but I don't have kids through choice and the presence of rowdy kids detracts from my enjoyment of a holiday. I avoid travel during school holidays and rarely sit on the sun deck so children on board generally don't bother me. However others may wish to enjoy the deck facilities and on-board activities knowing they will be child free.

I would appeal for some activities on all ships to remain adult only so that like-minded folk can get some respite.

[davedex]

Originally Posted by History addict

Consider also the point of view of adults. Very few ships cater for adults only so inevitably a lot of adults end up on other ships. It isn't only the 60+ brigade who may want adult only activities without kids being involved.

Personally I don't mind well behaved older kids taking part in activities but if you advertise things as family oriented then you may have younger kids running riot or even doting parents who think they can involve their 1 year old toddler and hold up the process (I've seen this many times!).

I know I sound a misery but I don't have kids through choice and the presence of rowdy kids detracts from my enjoyment of a holiday. I avoid travel during school holidays and rarely sit on the sun deck so children on board generally don't bother me. However others may wish to enjoy the deck facilities and on-board activities knowing they will be child free.

I would appeal for some activities on all ships to remain adult only so that like-minded folk can get some respite.

fair comment but i guess that you have the option to go on a child free ship if you want whereas children dont have that luxury. You probably also have the option to go on holiday during term time so can get 2 cruises for the price of 1 in holiday time when the companies jack their prices up (but thats a whole new debate!!!!). some activities can remain adult orientated but surely 1 family event in 2 weeks is not too much to expect is it?!!!

[History addict]

By the way, any implied criticism in my earlier posting about kids on ships comes from the MSC experience of Italian children who are generally allowed to run riot. One dribbled down my partner's suit in the main dining room and his parents seem to think it was cute and that we shouldn't mind but it spoilt the suit for wearing on other nights. I guess this is a consequence of the family-centred Mediterranean culture.

I've not had any problems with kids on British run ships.

[Brayman]

Unruly and unsupervised kids are a pain anywhere and I would have thought we would be less likely to come across them on a cruise ship - except maybe for Italians?

I do wonder if "ADULT shuffleboard, ADULT deck quoits, ADULT table tennis" etc may have been taken too literally. Perhaps if the parents had turned up at these events with their chidren they would have been allowed to compete. Many's the time I've been played off the table by a 12-year old! Maybe it is written that way to dissuade individual children from turning up without their parents.
Other than that I'm not really sure that I understand what "Family" activities is meant to cover.
I'm sure any constructive comments would always be taken on board (good pun eh?)

[LibraLass41]

''Talking of miserable old so and so's though, we were sat near the jacuzzi and an old couple (65 - 70 ish) sat right in front of it. Four blokes went in and were splashing and chucking water around for ages and old biddies never said a word. Then a couple of little girls went in (probably aged around 5) and they started splashing and these two old codgers got up and started giving them some right verbal!!! Poor kids burst into tears and ran off!!! Why they were on Ventura is beyond me - it's not really a couples ship for old biddies is it?''

Sorry but small children are not allowed in any Jacuuzzi's and their are notices posted to this affect - and where were their parents? 5 years old, playing in deep water with no parents around? If they drowned in the jacuzzi I suppose they would sue p&o !!

[lancashire_cruisers]

Originally Posted by LibraLass41

''Talking of miserable old so and so's though, we were sat near the jacuzzi and an old couple (65 - 70 ish) sat right in front of it. Four blokes went in and were splashing and chucking water around for ages and old biddies never said a word. Then a couple of little girls went in (probably aged around 5) and they started splashing and these two old codgers got up and started giving them some right verbal!!! Poor kids burst into tears and ran off!!! Why they were on Ventura is beyond me - it's not really a couples ship for old biddies is it?''

Sorry but small children are not allowed in any Jacuuzzi's and their are notices posted to this affect - and where were their parents? 5 years old, playing in deep water with no parents around? If they drowned in the jacuzzi I suppose they would sue p&o !!

No comment on the behaviour of the four adults Sue?? Or maybe this is 'normal' behaviour on the adult only ships?

Debbie

[balf]

Originally Posted by steelerannie

Talking of miserable old so and so's though, we were sat near the jacuzzi and an old couple (65 - 70 ish) sat right in front of it. Four blokes went in and were splashing and chucking water around for ages and old biddies never said a word. Then a couple of little girls went in (probably aged around 5) and they started splashing and these two old codgers got up and started giving them some right verbal!!! Poor kids burst into tears and ran off!!! Why they were on Ventura is beyond me - it's not really a couples ship for old biddies is it?

.

The reason they did not complain about the four blokes is obvious. At their age they did not fancy getting a bunch of fives for their trouble. So what age limit would you suggest for Ventura, or would that only apply to biddies?

David.

[ROSEBASKETS]

Lets make Ventura a "family friendly" ship by insisting that all "biddies and moaners" sign a waiver allowing children the same rights to participate in activities as anyone else.

I participated in carpet bowls on one ship with several geriatric participants when I was in my 20's. I said that I worked in a park as a bowling green attendant and spent all my time playing crown green bowls (which was a joke) they said that I shouldn't be allowed to participate... it irritated them even more when I won the tournament.... tee hee!

Never a more grumpy group of moaners could you wish to meet (and wind up) I suspect those who don't want children to participate in "adult" activities dont want to be embarrassed by the youth of today, either that or they should try and enjoy life a little more and not take unimportant matters so seriously!

[History addict]

I think pleasant/nasty and rude/courteous people appear in all generations. I met some lovely older folk on a recent Fred Olsen cruise and the fact that a large proportion of the clientele is of an older generation is a positive factor to me. Luckily the older people we've dined with have all been fascinating with lots of experience of life, happy to keep the conversation going and been a pleasure to know. Thankfully we haven't encountered any whingers to date.

What we are talking about here is a presence or absence of basic manners and a respect for others. Where these exist, people usually manage to get along in harmony.

Manners and respect are not the prerogative of any particular generation or social status. Unfortunately I feel both are in the decline, which makes me wonder if I will be an old whinger myself when I retire in later life.....