Bad news, Fence-sitters. The FE70-300mm is very nice!

Sorry to bring any temptation to the Sony shooters who were mulling over whether to get the 70-300mm F4.5-5.6 G OSS lens...but it's quite a lovely beast! Got mine Friday, and got the chance to take it out to the wetlands Saturday afternoon in terrible harsh afternoon light...but got a feel for how it can perform.

First, some basic feelings on the lens. Build is beautiful...while not a white, all metal type body like the FE70-200mm F4, it feels every bit as well made, very solid, heavy (for me in a good way), with very tight and smooth zooming action and focus rings...all switches are tight and snap with authority. Focus seems just as fast as the FE70-200mm at least through that range - can't really compare at 300mm since that lens doesn't go that far. Balance with the lens zoomed to full extension is quite nice - no real weight extends out past the lens' main body, so it doesn't really handle any differently at 70mm compared to 300mm. The lens certainly feels built like a 4-figure lens. Sharpness to my eye seems to be on par with the 70-200mm through its full range. Bokeh seems very good most of the way - excellent when shooting closeup, very good when shooting 300mm with more distant backgrounds...the only harsher bokeh seems to be when shooting 70-180mm or so with somewhat distant subjects and fairly close backgrounds.

My first batch of photos from the lens so far can be found in this gallery:

FE70-300mm Gallry

Remember one caveat - the afternoon light I was shooting in was as bad as can be - perfectly clear skies, starting around 12:30pm and finishing at 3pm, all light coming straight down, hard shadows and very peaky hard light reflecting...contrast is never fun during this light, but that was the only time I could get out there.

A few samples here (all taken with the A6300, all JPGs from the camera):

Dragonfly - 300mm, wide open, minimum focus distance:

Basilisk lizard, 300mm wide open, very low light (ISO 2,500):

Anhinga drying off, strong backlight/toplight:

Wood stork in flight:

Tricolor heron baby and mom:

Did you hear that?

It was the sound of my piggy bank scrambling under the dresser to hide...

Dave

Justin GREAT PICTURES!!!!!!, been waiting and watching all weekend for your update on the lens lol. You and Dave are really helping me enjoy my retirement. Order the lens from B&H and UPS will drop off today !!!!!

Must say when you or Dave recommend it is a sure thing for me. A friend of mine wanted to buy my A6000, SOLD. I like having (2) cameras for my different lens, so have another A6300 coming.

THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR MAKING PHOTOGRAPHY BOTH INTERESTING AND FUN. Pleas stay away from full frame lol

Tom :cool::cool:

Justin GREAT PICTURES!!!!!!, been waiting and watching all weekend for your update on the lens lol. You and Dave are really helping me enjoy my retirement.

Must say when you or Dave recommend it is a sure thing for me.

THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR MAKING PHOTOGRAPHY BOTH INTERESTING AND FUN. Pleas stay away from full frame lol

 

Tom :cool::cool:

Like Tom, I was waiting all weekend for Jusrin's update on the 70-300mm. And with Dave and Justin's report on the A6300 - and their leading me into temptation, my A6300 is arriving on Wednesday..

Been very happy with my 55-210 zoom but after seeing Justin's weekend shots, well ...

Aloha,

Tom(2)

Been very happy with my 55-210 zoom but after seeing Justin's weekend shots, well ...

 

I am pleased with shots from the 55-210 as well.

Buuuuuuuut.....

A77 and a-mount lenses may be going up for sale as E-mount takes over my bag.

Dave

Glad to have Ebay for my selling my camera gear, helps fight my habit for new toys. You are going to love your NEW A6300, just bought an Ebook by Gary Fredman to help my learn and use my new toy. Also Justin and Dave for backup.

Tom lol :cool:

Deleted due to duplication.

Sorry to bring any temptation to the Sony shooters who were mulling over whether to get the 70-300mm F4.5-5.6 G OSS lens...but it's quite a lovely beast! Got mine Friday, and got the chance to take it out to the wetlands Saturday afternoon in terrible harsh afternoon light...but got a feel for how it can perform.

 

 

 

First, some basic feelings on the lens. Build is beautiful...while not a white, all metal type body like the FE70-200mm F4, it feels every bit as well made, very solid, heavy (for me in a good way), with very tight and smooth zooming action and focus rings...all switches are tight and snap with authority. Focus seems just as fast as the FE70-200mm at least through that range - can't really compare at 300mm since that lens doesn't go that far. Balance with the lens zoomed to full extension is quite nice - no real weight extends out past the lens' main body, so it doesn't really handle any differently at 70mm compared to 300mm. The lens certainly feels built like a 4-figure lens. Sharpness to my eye seems to be on par with the 70-200mm through its full range. Bokeh seems very good most of the way - excellent when shooting closeup, very good when shooting 300mm with more distant backgrounds...the only harsher bokeh seems to be when shooting 70-180mm or so with somewhat distant subjects and fairly close backgrounds.

 

 

 

My first batch of photos from the lens so far can be found in this gallery:

 

FE70-300mm Gallry

 

 

 

Remember one caveat - the afternoon light I was shooting in was as bad as can be - perfectly clear skies, starting around 12:30pm and finishing at 3pm, all light coming straight down, hard shadows and very peaky hard light reflecting...contrast is never fun during this light, but that was the only time I could get out there.

 

 

 

A few samples here (all taken with the A6300, all JPGs from the camera):

 

 

 

Dragonfly - 300mm, wide open, minimum focus distance:

 

 

 

 

Basilisk lizard, 300mm wide open, very low light (ISO 2,500):

 

 

 

 

Anhinga drying off, strong backlight/toplight:

 

 

 

 

Wood stork in flight:

 

 

 

 

Tricolor heron baby and mom:

 

This just got expensive.. I just sent you a friend request so I can ask you about lenses in detail-something I do not know about.

Cheers,

Bob

Thanks Bob - happy to answer questions. I don't see a friend request in my profile - is that where you're supposed to see them? I don't use that function often, but I thought I remembered a little popup of some kind saying there was a friend request, and don't see one - maybe it's delayed a bit. I'll keep looking, and if that doesn't work, you can ask here too and I'll provide any answers I can.

Thanks Bob - happy to answer questions. .

Justin: if Bob's questions are of universal interest, you might consider posting it here.

best,

Tom-2

Thanks Bob - happy to answer questions. I don't see a friend request in my profile - is that where you're supposed to see them? I don't use that function often, but I thought I remembered a little popup of some kind saying there was a friend request, and don't see one - maybe it's delayed a bit. I'll keep looking, and if that doesn't work, you can ask here too and I'll provide any answers I can.

Tom is correct.. Perhaps others can benefit from your answer.

First, maybe it's on another travel blog that I follow (I'm using Tapatalk to talk to you here), but I think it is there where you can send individual messages. No matter, here is my question:

-----

I'm looking very seriously at getting the a7RII, listed here:

http://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-7rm2#editorial_image_80611850204305708022508

I've noticed that it only recommends "E-series" lenses. I would like recommendations on what to get, 70–200, 50–300 etc. I know these are expressions of millimeters, however I'm not sure what's the best one for my needs; after buying this new camera I'm only going to be able to afford one lens for now. So-

My 2 main intended uses:

1) Landscapes, above average to direct sunlight, alot of oceans and texture and old buildings, possibly vehicles in motion, range probably 50 to 100 yards or more.

2) Indoors, low light to medium light and low action. Think of the inside of a cruise ship's passageways or public areas... Individual range would probably average 10 to 40 yards.

When considering your recommendation, please keep in mind the speed of the lens needs to be considered, because this is also a 4K video camera and cannot afford to have motion/lag when moved around when in filming mode.

I think you guys in advance for educating me, and I await your recommendations.

~Bob

 

-----

I'm looking very seriously at getting the a7RII, listed here:

http://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-7rm2#editorial_image_80611850204305708022508

 

 

~Bob

Before we pile on with the list of E-mount recommendations for full-frame, have you considered going with Sony's APS-C cameras? The A6300 doesn't compare to the A7RII in total resolution, but it has faster autofocus and shoots remarkably well in low light. The other plus is that it is $2200 less expensive which would leave you a substantial budget for quality lenses to cover your needs.

Justin's photos above were shot with the A6300 and the link below is to my last trip on the Allure where I shot primarily with the A6300 and an older A6000 for the fisheye and ultra-wide shots.

http://galleries.pptphoto.com/allure2016

I'm not arguing with your choice of the A7RII as it is a truly excellent camera, but since you seem to travel quite a bit, the smaller size of the APS-C cameras made a lot of sense to me and I thought I'd throw in my 2¢...:)

Dave

I'm looking very seriously at getting the a7RII, listed here:

I've noticed that it only recommends "E-series" lenses. I would like recommendations on what to get, 70–200, 50–300 etc. I know these are expressions of millimeters, however I'm not sure what's the best one for my needs; after buying this new camera I'm only going to be able to afford one lens for now.

The A7RII is a beast of a camera - excellent specs and cramming a full frame sensor of that resolution into such a small body is a feat. I do tend to agree with Dave in just pointing out depending on what you're coming from that you may not really have a need for a full frame sensor. Full frame sensors are excellent for many reasons - people coming from film SLRs may feel comfortable right away with them because all of their lens' focal lengths stay true - ie: 35mm lens is 35mm focal equivalent. APS-C sensors like the A6300 that I used above have the smaller APS-C sensors, which are really developed beautifully - much larger than P&S camera sensors, and of high resolution and very good low light ability, but a little more compact to allow smaller bodies. When using an APS-C camera, the focal length equivalence of any lens you buy is essentially multiplied by 1.5x - so a 50mm lens delivers the equivalent framing of a 75mm lens on a full frame camera. This won't matter as much if you weren't a film shooter, where those focal lengths in 'mm' don't really have any strong relevance to you anyway.

Where full frame cameras excel is in landscape shooting - and in low light shooting where they still have an edge when ISO levels get really high. You have lots of megapixels, but more importantly, more space for those pixels on the larger sensor. Full frame sensors with very high MP can be demanding on lenses though - cheap lenses don't take advantage of the resolution capabilities of the sensor, so often to get the real advantages out of them, you need to get more pricey, high-end lenses developed for maximum resolution sensors.

But note that we're talking about fine details - the difference between two landscape shots taken with an APS-C sensor and a full frame sensor with a decent lens in good light aren't even noticeable until you get to prints 3-4 feet wide, or blowing up to 100% pixel for pixel level on screen to look at a tiny fraction of the photo for some minute detail. For most people, every day use, normal prints and sharing, most people would be hard-pressed to see any difference. It doesn't sound like you'll be pushing the boundaries of these sensors' abilities too much...so I wouldn't worry about any of these cameras being capable in those conditions.

That said...

1) Landscapes, above average to direct sunlight, alot of oceans and texture and old buildings, possibly vehicles in motion, range probably 50 to 100 yards or more.

Depending on how you intend to use your results...if sharing online, or making fairly normal sized prints up to 16x20" or so, then in good sunlight and a reasonably stopped down lens, even the kit lenses can do OK - you'll probably want a fairly wide reach ability, so something in the 16mm to 50mm range equivalence will be good for buildings shot at close range and landscape shots. For full frame, a 24-70mm F2.8 Zeiss lens would be great - or if you really like wide, the 16-35mm F4 Zeiss. They're not cheap! If you look at APS-C cameras, the kit lens again can get you by, and if you really wanted to upgrade the SEL16-70mm F4 Zeiss is not too expensive and designed for APS-C cameras. Also useful is the ultrawide 10-18mm especially for buildings and city street shots.

2) Indoors, low light to medium light and low action. Think of the inside of a cruise ship's passageways or public areas... Individual range would probably average 10 to 40 yards.

For that range, I'd think you'd probably want to keep your focal reach in the 24mm to 50mm range. Wide and fast is expensive though. For full frame, the FE35mm F1.4 Zeiss is probably going to be the best you're going to get...but acceptable results could probably be obtained from the 28mm F2 which is a reasonable size, and also comes with two available adapters to allow it to shoot wider or fisheye...so it's a flexible lens and still good in moderate low light conditions. For the APS-C cameras, I have been very happy with the SEL35mm F1.8 - reasonably fast, sharp, small, and stabilized...and shooting at an equivalent 50mm it's decent for the types of distances you're referring to. For a cheaper option on full frame with roughly the same focal, you could opt for the cheap and small FE 50mm F1.8 lens.

When considering your recommendation, please keep in mind the speed of the lens needs to be considered, because this is also a 4K video camera and cannot afford to have motion/lag when moved around when in filming mode.

If you're going to be shooting lots of video - I think you would want to consider less panning/movement of the camera - try more fixed placement shots and keep shutter speed high enough and frame rate high enough to capture any scene movement you need - don't worry as much about lens speed here too, because at the lower resolution demands of 4k video, the ISO can get quite high and still not show noticeable degradation in the video. Remember though '4K' sounds like a lot, it's still smaller than the stills that come out of these cameras. An APS-C sensor camera with 24MP is shooting stills at '6K'. Where the full frame camera like the A7RII will have an advantage is that with its huge resolution sensor, it can actually be set to a Super35mm crop mode for 4K video, allowing it to significantly reduce noise at higher ISO levels by taking an 18MP crop and downsizing to 4K. But the reason you don't want to do too much handheld panning or moving when shooting 4K on almost any mirrorless or DSLR camera is that they suffer from what's known as 'rolling shutter' - when panning too quickly, any straight vertical lines become distorted and bent due to how the electronic shutters read by lines when shooting video. Just something to be aware of if you've not shot a lot of video.

I may not have answered all of your questions, so feel free to fire more, or detail anything unclear or needing more info!

I thought too that I'd throw in a few more samples from the A6300 and FE70-300mm F4.5-5.6 G OSS lens...these were taken in my backyard while I was sitting in my pool, AFTER the wetlands. The animals are not as exotic, but the shooting conditions were significantly better (85 degree water up to the waist, cooler full of drinks and my camera sitting on the rim of the pool). And due to being later in the afternoon, the light was nicer too. I can also accurately gauge distance, since I was standing at the shallow end corner of my pool and the animals I was shooting were at the opposite end of the pool - my pool is 40 feet long, and the planter is 5 feet from the pool edge, so these animals were all in the 42-45 foot distance range:

Blue jay looking for seed:

Grey squirrel running by (he was closer, around 30 feet, because he was running towards me to see if I had any food):

White winged dove:

Mourning dove, with squirrel in the bokeh:

Blue jay having a drink from the bird bath:

Blue jay looking for seed:

 

Grey squirrel running by (he was closer, around 30 feet, because he was running towards me to see if I had any food):

 

 

Blue jay having a drink from the bird bath:

Those two shots alone prove "the FE70-300mm is very nice"!

Thanks.

Tom-2

Before we pile on with the list of E-mount recommendations for full-frame, have you considered going with Sony's APS-C cameras? The A6300 doesn't compare to the A7RII in total resolution, but it has faster autofocus and shoots remarkably well in low light. The other plus is that it is $2200 less expensive which would leave you a substantial budget for quality lenses to cover your needs.

 

 

 

Justin's photos above were shot with the A6300 and the link below is to my last trip on the Allure where I shot primarily with the A6300 and an older A6000 for the fisheye and ultra-wide shots.

 

 

 

http://galleries.pptphoto.com/allure2016

 

 

 

I'm not arguing with your choice of the A7RII as it is a truly excellent camera, but since you seem to travel quite a bit, the smaller size of the APS-C cameras made a lot of sense to me and I thought I'd throw in my 2¢...:)

 

 

 

Dave

Wow! Jamaica, Labadie, Cozumel.. Those colors really pop.

I had not heard of the A6300. Thank you for letting me know. I'm thinking very seriously about sidelining my four-year-old HD AVC camera (Sony HDR PJ-790v) in favor of one of these two.

Still need to get input on anyone who has actually given a fair amount of use towards either of these in shooting video, specially the A6300.

I'm trying to go down from two pieces of gear (still camera and video camera) to one all encompassing piece of gear- to make things easier and lighter. A7RII or A6300 seem to be where I am heading!

Thanks again,

Bob

I thought too that I'd throw in a few more samples from the A6300 and FE70-300mm F4.5-5.6 G OSS lens...these were taken in my backyard while I was sitting in my pool, AFTER the wetlands. The animals are not as exotic, but the shooting conditions were significantly better (85 degree water up to the waist, cooler full of drinks and my camera sitting on the rim of the pool). And due to being later in the afternoon, the light was nicer too. I can also accurately gauge distance, since I was standing at the shallow end corner of my pool and the animals I was shooting were at the opposite end of the pool - my pool is 40 feet long, and the planter is 5 feet from the pool edge, so these animals were all in the 42-45 foot distance range:

 

Blue jay looking for seed:

 

Grey squirrel running by (he was closer, around 30 feet, because he was running towards me to see if I had any food):

 

White winged dove:

 

Mourning dove, with squirrel in the bokeh:

 

Blue jay having a drink from the bird bath:

Thanks very much for your input on these 2 posts. There is certainly a it to consider between the A7IIR and A6300.

Video quality/performance is key. I will be doing much more research in the next few days.

Thanks again!

~Bob

There is certainly a it to consider between the A7IIR and A6300.

 

Video quality/performance is key.

~Bob

I have not tried the video oon the A6300 - I just got it yesterday!

But I have been fooling around with the video on the A6000 and frankly I was amazed! I have had problems before with video - shakes etc - but I was amazed at how steady video taken on the A6000. I would be surprised if the A6300 would not do the same, if not exceed the A6000.

Incidentally, Dave, Justin and Tom(1), among others have written much on the A6000 and A6300 on this section of CC and you will find a lot of tips on both the A6000 and A6300 - much of which is somewhat interchangable.

I have not tried the video on the A6300 - I just got it yesterday!....

Thank you! At its highest 4K NTSC quality setting, what data rate are we talking about?

On my four-year-old camera, HD video 1920 x 1080 60 fps takes up about 24 GB/hour. I get about 76 mins on SXDC 32gb cards.

Thank you! At its highest 4K NTSC quality setting, what data rate are we talking about?

 

On my four-year-old camera, HD video 1920 x 1080 60 fps takes up about 24 GB/hour. I get about 76 mins on SXDC 32gb cards.

From a review on Imaging Resource:

"The Sony A6300 uses XAVC S-format video for both 4K recording as well as Full HD video. 4K video is recorded in either 30p or 24p (or PAL-specific 25p) with a choice of bitrates: 100Mbps or 60Mbps. Full HD is offered in 60p, 30p, 24p and 120p. Bitrates for Full HD XAVC S video are 50Mbps for 24-60p (25/50p PAL) or 100Mbps for 120p. The A6300 also offers AVCHD (.MTS format) and MP4 video formats in a handful of lower bitrate settings, for a variety of Full HD options (and 720p for MP4 mode). 4K is only offered in XAVC S format, however."

I'm not really a video shooter but I'm being tempted by having all that technical potential a button away!

:)

Dave

"The Sony A6300 uses XAVC S-format video for both 4K recording as well as Full HD video. 4K video is recorded in either 30p or 24p (or PAL-specific 25p) with a choice of bitrates: 100Mbps or 60Mbps. Full HD is offered in 60p, 30p, 24p and 120p. Bitrates for Full HD XAVC S video are 50Mbps for 24-60p (25/50p PAL) or 100Mbps for 120p. The A6300 also offers AVCHD (.MTS format) and MP4 video formats in a handful of lower bitrate settings, for a variety of Full HD options (and 720p for MP4 mode). 4K is only offered in XAVC S format, however."

 

Dave

DAVE:

In 25-words or less (LOL), what are the the advantages or disadvantages of 4K video, HD video and the different bitrates.?

Thanks,

Tom(2)

From a review on Imaging Resource:

 

"The Sony A6300 uses XAVC S-format video for both 4K recording as well as Full HD video. 4K video is recorded in either 30p or 24p (or PAL-specific 25p) with a choice of bitrates: 100Mbps or 60Mbps. Full HD is offered in 60p, 30p, 24p and 120p. Bitrates for Full HD XAVC S video are 50Mbps for 24-60p (25/50p PAL) or 100Mbps for 120p. The A6300 also offers AVCHD (.MTS format) and MP4 video formats in a handful of lower bitrate settings, for a variety of Full HD options (and 720p for MP4 mode). 4K is only offered in XAVC S format, however."

 

I'm not really a video shooter but I'm being tempted by having all that technical potential a button away!

 

:)

 

Dave

I know nothing about video. I did video of my son's band performance last night, with the A6300... and it really doesn't look too good. I think my iphone would have done better.

Sure, the A6300 may indeed be very powerful for video.. but if you don't know what you're doing, it doesn't seem to help any. (same can be said of photography).

Now that I think about it.. I was also using an unstabilized lens. IBIS is a huge benefit for video, I know that much..

For all the different frame rates, etc... Unless you are going to shoot video on a tripod, etc.... Video isn't going to be great without IBIS.

I know nothing about video. I did video of my son's band performance last night, with the A6300... and it really doesn't look too good. I think my iphone would have done better.

 

 

 

For all the different frame rates, etc... Unless you are going to shoot video on a tripod, etc.... Video isn't going to be great without IBIS.

English, please [emoji14]. 'IBIS', explained?

Thank you,

Bob

DAVE:

 

In 25-words or less (LOL), what are the the advantages or disadvantages of 4K video, HD video and the different bitrates.?

Thanks,

Tom(2)

4K video (3840x2160) is basically 4x the resolution of HD (1920x1080) If you have a 4K TV or projector, the difference is very visible. If not, the extra resolution is wasted. The bitrate can be compared to JPEG compression on a still photo. Low bitrate movie = standard JPEG still, high bitrate movie = xfine JPEG still (approximately). Lower bitrates require more compression to be applied to the video stream which may not reduce the perceived quality when it is viewed but the file compression may limit the amount of manipulation that can be done to the video before visible quality starts to suffer. If you are producing a video that may require a lot of post-processing for broadcast or professional presentations, the higher bitrate provides a cleaner, less compressed original to work with. In the real world of home travel video to be trimmed, brightened and shared on YouTube, a 1080p (HD) MP4 may be all you ever need.

English, please [emoji14]. 'IBIS', explained?

 

Thank you,

Bob

In Body Image Stabilization. In a nutshell, most cameras rely on stabilized lenses but some have stabilization built in by shifting the image sensor to offset camera motion. Both types work well but IBIS allows for stabilization even with older manual or adapted lenses.

Dave

English, please [emoji14]. 'IBIS', explained?

 

Thank you,

Bob

In body image stabilization. Can be done by shifting the sensor, or for video, it can be done digitally. (Digitally -- it will crop the image, and constantly adjust the crop to compensation for minor motion).

Since it is difficult -- nearly impossible -- to hold a camera perfectly still for a continuous period, without some pretty decent stabilization, video will look very wobbly.

And that's what I find with the A6300 video -- extreme wobbles.

In terms of a USEFUL video feature -- IBIS or digital stabilization would be far more beneficial than all the fancy bit rates.