Europeans are Rude and No Manners

Do any of you realize this thread is from Feb 2012?

I didn't. Lutece resurrected IT yesterday. Still, it is good fun :).

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."

John Kenneth Galbraith

To be able to draw any sort of inference about MSC one must start with a randomly selected sample of MSC guests. Cruise Critic is dominated by North Americans who are accustomed to American cruise lines. MSC is not an American cruise line and does many things differently to them. North Americans are a tiny minority of MSC guests yet dominate the CC reviews and ratings.

Then at the very least you would agree that the Cruisers Choice all time ratings, a tabulation of over 145,000 written reviews, is a valid indicator for how North Americans rate MSC service compared to other lines, right?

Further, 'seasoned' NA cruisers are likely to be the most critical simply because they are most likely to be set in their ways and not appreciative of change and 'foreign' ways of doing things.

Is there something about North Americans that makes them "most likely to be set in their ways and not appreciative of change etc ?" Do you really want to make this argument? It sounds similar to the OP's criticism of rude Europeans (and just as devoid of facts you yourself demand to support such controversies). You regarded that kind of specious argument as "tosh."

So, just how can any conclusions be drawn from the opinions of the most disgruntled, axe-grinding, self-selected minority of a minority of MSC guests?

They cannot! They cannot.

Skipper Tim, calm down. The citation to the results of the Cruise Critic Cruisers Choice ratings appears to have agitated you. Talk about disgruntled, axe-grinding. How do you know that those who wrote reviews and gave uniquely abysmal ratings for MSC's service were any more or less disgruntled or axe-grinding than those who submitted reviews of other lines? Or do you mean to say all Cruise Critic reviewers are disgruntled and axe-grinding, not just those writing reviews of MSC ? Hmmm.

I will be on the QM2 next week and I am sorely tempted to document my observations as 'a rude European' of this American line. However, there will be strengths and weaknesses as there are with any line or travel experience and I hope I never write such tosh, even in anger.

 

Cruising is no longer restricted to just the American way of cruising, thank heavens.

 

Rude European,

Have a great cruise.

I started this thread and I retracted my statement. My GF went on the MSC Divina and was pleasantly surprised how the ship had changed from 2 years earlier. No announcement in 5 languages. Only English and it was 110% different from 2 years ago. Maybe my post got to someone in MSC. Who knows. I was sorry then and now that I generalized. I was upset because the people who were seated at our table had a bad cold's and when I got home I became very sick and so did my GF. A pneumonia was our welcome home present.

Im sorry that happened to you. Thanks for the clarification.

Misterscrubs, why don't you hit the alert button on your original post and see if the admin will remove the thread. It is old and you have retracted it, lets move on. :)

LOL thats new ,now unhappy american cruiser wants staff to bent for him.:rolleyes:;)

Was that a "special interest" cruise?

Then at the very least you would agree that the Cruisers Choice all time ratings, a tabulation of over 145,000 written reviews, is a valid indicator for how North Americans rate MSC service compared to other lines, right?

It is an indication but what it says and to what degree of confidence one can attribute to it are both very uncertain. It certainly does not say anything about MSC. There will be elements of the demographics of the English-speaking internet, cultural issues related to that demographic, motivational reasons for writing a review/giving a rating, penetration, experience and acceptance of foreign cultures and so on and so forth.

Is there something about North Americans that makes them "most likely to be set in their ways and not appreciative of change etc ?" Do you really want to make this argument?

I could make the argument that North American cruise passengers are on average more set in their ways than non North American cruise passengers. However, I do not have to make that argument. Most people are set in their ways to a degree regardless of nationality. No, the argument is that experienced North American cruisers are more likely to have had their ways set by U.S. lines rather than by an Italian one. Is this contested?

Skipper Tim, calm down. The citation to the results of the Cruise Critic Cruisers Choice ratings appears to have agitated you.

What irritates me if a misuse of data to make a false assertion - as politicians do professionally. The field of statistics is relatively small and really ought to be taught from an early age to help not just our ability to interpret evidence but to help democracy.

The first questions are:

1. Was the sample chosen randomly? If not stop (as in the case here).

2. Are there any systemic factors within the random sample to correct for?

3. How big is the sample? This determined the confidence that can be attributed.

Talk about disgruntled, axe-grinding. How do you know that those who wrote reviews and gave uniquely abysmal ratings for MSC's service were any more or less disgruntled or axe-grinding than those who submitted reviews of other lines? Or do you mean to say all Cruise Critic reviewers are disgruntled and axe-grinding, not just those writing reviews of MSC ? Hmmm.

Here is an exercise to aid understanding.

1. Pick a non-U.S. hotel at random

2. Find the corresponding reviews on Tripadvisor

3. Read a hundred or so in chronological order.

Now without knowing what hotel that is, I can tell you that the staff are rude and the service and food are poor. How did I do that?

But still no-one has answered me to say why they think we French are rude:confused:

But still no-one has answered me to say why they think we French are rude:confused:

I do not think that French are rude, so I can not answer your question. I love France:)

I have to wonder what the "simple question" was?

 

Acting out the request like in a game of charades has worked for us when the person didn't understand what we were saying. But they told us they didn't understand in nearly perfect english.

If someone speaks what I believe is French to me I always say "Je ne parle pas Francais"

Similarly for German I say "ich spreche kein Deutsch"

That must baffle the people who speak to me!!!!!!!!

The rudest person I met was a USA national who proclaimed out loud when barging in at the front of the queue for photos with the captain

"i don't wait in line for anyone, not even the Captain" and proceeded to storm off.

The only nation who queue as well as us Brits are the Brazilians, (Former communist countries excluded; they'll queue to join a queue and still not know what they are queuing for)

I started this thread and I retracted my statement. My GF went on the MSC Divina and was pleasantly surprised how the ship had changed from 2 years earlier. No announcement in 5 languages. Only English and it was 110% different from 2 years ago. Maybe my post got to someone in MSC. Who knows. I was sorry then and now that I generalized. I was upset because the people who were seated at our table had a bad cold's and when I got home I became very sick and so did my GF. A pneumonia was our welcome home present.

OK, there you have it. Let's close this thread. Generalisations about Continents only breed prejudice, and we certainly, as a global society are above that.

But still no-one has answered me to say why they think we French are rude:confused:

They aren't. I love visiting France. The alliance between our countries go back centuries.

Actually I don't think any nationality is rude. Every country has rude people and well mannered. Not all countries have the same manners and that is the problem here. If someone doesn't behave in the way that is considered good manners in their country, they interpret it as rude. It might be, then again it might not.a

The only nation who queue as well as us Brits are the Brazilians, (Former communist countries excluded; they'll queue to join a queue and still not know what they are queuing for)

Another prejudice. :D

http://modakomoda.tportal.hr/ulicnamoda/203616/splitsko-ljeto-85-by-feda-klaric.html

Street style summer fashion in Split in 1985. And you think everything was grey, are you? :D

Sorry Lutece, it was me. I go to France a lot, I love Paris and Nice and most French people I meet. I love the French peoples patriotism, but where I live we have a lot of French students visiting , and they are young I know, but they just push into the queues and are very loud and rude to their elders and they have made me a little judgemental of French youngsters. Sorry again, made the mistake misterscrubs made and judged a whole nation on the actions of a few. Please accept my apology. :D.

Hi, frequent MSC cruiser. Yes, there is some line cutting and people getting on elevators before passengers can get out. This happens both on Caribbean and Med sailings. I live with the few that do this as I've seen too many of my fellow Americans look like arrogant, pompous asses. All told, I love meeting people from all over. This is one things I like about MSC. And thanks for making the apology as I have typed without thinking. Enjoy all your cruises.

If someone speaks what I believe is French to me I always say "Je ne parle pas Francais"

 

Similarly for German I say "ich spreche kein Deutsch"

 

That must baffle the people who speak to me!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

The rudest person I met was a USA national who proclaimed out loud when barging in at the front of the queue for photos with the captain

 

"i don't wait in line for anyone, not even the Captain" and proceeded to storm off.

 

 

 

The only nation who queue as well as us Brits are the Brazilians, (Former communist countries excluded; they'll queue to join a queue and still not know what they are queuing for)

Well, I'm Brazilian and I hate queues, hihihih :D

Well, I'm Brazilian and I hate queues, hihihih :D

The British don't enjoy queuing. They do it out of a sense of morality and suffer in silence. To us, not queuing is not just rude, it is a sin :).

The British don't enjoy queuing. They do it out of a sense of morality and suffer in silence. To us, not queuing is not just rude, it is a sin :).

Interesting, the British and the Brazilian have then more in common then just our capital 'B' :D Except for the silence part - Brazilians don't do silence, ever. But we're giving them ideas, next there will be a thread about rude latin americans and rude British....

Interesting, the British and the Brazilian have then more in common then just our capital 'B' :D Except for the silence part - Brazilians don't do silence, ever. But we're giving them ideas, next there will be a thread about rude latin americans and rude British....

Yes, I think the 'silence' aspect is our big mistake.

It is not even silence. We are silent at the time of 'the offence' (e.g. someone pushing in) then whinge about it in private for the rest of our lives.

The Brazilian way is probably far more mentally healthy.

The British will take any form of punishment without comment - then write books and make films about it later :).

Yes, I think the 'silence' aspect is our big mistake.

 

It is not even silence. We are silent at the time of 'the offence' (e.g. someone pushing in) then whinge about it in private for the rest of our lives.

 

The Brazilian way is probably far more mentally healthy.

 

The British will take any form of punishment without comment - then write books and make films about it later :).

Too funny, but also so true. At least now we are poking fun at ourselves.

Agreed on all counts!! :)

I find in my travels that there are some rude people everywhere. Thankfully there are only a few, no matter where they come from. Cruises are what you make of it. If you encounter rudeness, ignore it and move on, don't let it spoil your good time. Life is too short for petty issues. Don't stereotype an entire nationality for the actions of a few people on a ship. I am a first generation Italian/American, and have traveled extensively throughout Europe, North American and Asia, and most everywhere I've been, I've encountered that small "lunatic fringe of ignorence" and I ignore it!! On Transatlantic Cruises, you get to experience a lot of interesting people, whose lifestyles are very different. I wouldn't trade their differences one bit. I don't want to live in a "vanilla" world. If you encounter someone who is continually being particularly offensive, don't wait 'til you get home to write about it, don't confront them or challenge them, just report their actions to ships officer in charge of that particular department. I have always found that to be productive. Notice I said "continually particularly offensive" a lot of times, some people seem rude because they just didn't think about what they are doing. I'm guilty of that myself at one time or another.

If you encounter someone who is continually being particularly offensive, don't wait 'til you get home to write about it, don't confront them or challenge them, just report their actions to ships officer in charge of that particular department. I have always found that to be productive. Notice I said "continually particularly offensive" a lot of times, some people seem rude because they just didn't think about what they are doing. I'm guilty of that myself at one time or another.

Confront, no, but I question why one should not "politely" or tactfully (at first one deserves the benefit of the doubt) ask the offender to stop the offensive conduct. To do so may help others affected by the impolite conduct. Subsequently reporting to a ship officer that a guest pushed in line or improperly reserved a deck chair may be ineffective and inordinately time consuming.

Sorry......I'm a American, my grandparents come from Europe, & most people can agree that there's GOOD & BAD people from all around the world! It really depends on how one was raised! Do I get a "Amen"????

Let's just ALL try to get along & RESPECT one another. Happy new year😄

Confront, no, but I question why one should not "politely" or tactfully (at first one deserves the benefit of the doubt) ask the offender to stop the offensive conduct. To do so may help others affected by the impolite conduct. Subsequently reporting to a ship officer that a guest pushed in line or improperly reserved a deck chair may be ineffective and inordinately time consuming.

Absolutely agreed. Nothing wrong with an "I've been waiting in line too!" when someone tries to push in ahead of me. Sometimes even a look might suffice.

I don't think I would go through the effort of reporting someone to the crew unless it's a particluar dangerous behavior.

Absolutely agreed. Nothing wrong with an "I've been waiting in line too!" when someone tries to push in ahead of me. Sometimes even a look might suffice.

 

I don't think I would go through the effort of reporting someone to the crew unless it's a particluar dangerous behavior.

I agree completely with what you are saying. I said that if a person is "continually being particularly offensive" repeatedly after politely being told,(which I omitted) then its time to report them to the Officer in charge of the particular department. I have never done that on over 30 cruises, but I have seen it done, and it worked very well, the person wasn't too happy being told, but did comply.