Wines onboard?

[Bobblsc]

Originally Posted by Colonel(Ret.)Wes

Fyi, current connoisseur wine list attached as sent today from Fran Harris, Silversea Reservation Concierge

Colonel, I mean absolutely no disrespect, and realize these prices are not set by you, but how could anyone be interested in drinking an $1100.00 bottle of wine, as posted for one wine? I believe it was economist Thorsten Veblen who labeled this as "conspicuous consumption." And there were many wines priced at $200-$300, or more.

Forgive my ignorance about the finest wines, but how could even Warren Buffet really enjoy these costs after relating them to alternative wines?

The Wall Street Journal used to have weekly wine articles which often noted that after blind tasting, less expensive wines were better than the more expensive ones. The WSJ has reduced these wine comparisons in recent years, so these articles are no longer available.

I do not fault the wine producers or the cruise ships for having such wines at such prices, but only ask " How could people logically participate in such pricey markets?"

Once more, I do not fault you for showing, or the cruise line for offering these choices. I only ask "How in the world are these extremely expensive wines able to be marketed with an expectation of sales?"

So there you have it.

Bob

[Colonel(Ret.)Wes]

HI Bob, no worries, we would never pay more than $50 for a bottle of wine/champagne on shore and 95% of the time most of our wine purchases are wines in the $10-$20 range, scoring at least 88-92 on the same scoring scale Stumblefoot uses by Wine Spectator. However, when we have $500-$1500 SBC there are just so many massages, boutique items you can buy and we find left over SBC is wonderful for a fine wine treat (e.g. the Tignanello at $80, or a Caymus (not the special select) Cab for $75) e.g., our at home regular red Italian pour is the 2005/2008 Antinori Villa Toscana for about $10 or this delish Tormaresca.

http://www.klwines.com/detail.asp?sku=1070298

ps..obviously, however, there is a vibrant market for the upper end fine wines and a small majority of folks do have the disposable income to spend on the Margaux, Chateau Haut Brion, Opus One, Ornellaia by Gaja et. al

[Ravenscroft]

Wes, thanks for posting the sample CL. Our next cruise is with SB. I've asked on the Seabourn board about fine wines available on board, and contacted SB too but been unable to find anything similar. They do have some listed on the website but I very much hope there's a wider choice on board in addition to the included wines.

On SS we've always found something perfectly drinkable among the selection of included pours, we do enjoy fine wine too. We certainly made numerous hits on the CL during our 21 days in December/January. The head sommelier soon got to know our tastes and allowed us to put together a package that gave good discount off the per bottle prices.

[CanadianKate]

Bob, your comment made me recall an article in The Economist this year. A quick google search didn't turn up that article but one from 6 years ago that had the same results:

http://www.economist.com/node/8031377

[Stumblefoot]

Originally Posted by Bobblsc

...but only ask "How could people logically participate in such pricey markets?"

The same way they participated in the U.S. housing bubble up until '08. Or, the way they participated in the dot-com (.com) bubble from '95 - '00.

Originally Posted by Bobblsc

I only ask "How in the world are these extremely expensive wines able to be marketed with an expectation of sales?"

Wine is a global market, especially so for the finest wines. Wherever money is found sloshing around, most likely, you'll find the finest wines doing the same thing as it moves around the globe to those that have the wherewithal to purchase it.

Ultimately, buyers determine the direction of a market. During this last recession, many of the top producers (especially those in France) were able to raise prices to levels never seen before. Even the Wine Spectator Auction Index rose to its highest level EVER in Q1-'11 as seen in the attached file.

[Scotspea]

[quote=Bobblsc;35021260]Colonel, I mean absolutely no disrespect, and realize these prices are not set by you, but how could anyone be interested in drinking an $1100.00 bottle of wine, as posted for one wine? I believe it was economist Thorsten Veblen who labeled this as "conspicuous consumption." And there were many wines priced at $200-$300, or more.

Wine is a purchase where the law of diminishing returns has always featured.
It has become much much worse as most of the 'third world' has become richer. This has led to a very difficult situation for we consumers, who have an average knowledge of wine, as price is no longer a cast iron guarantee of quality.
The only true way is experience (something my wife will claim has cost us tens of thousands of pounds!) but it is a very enjoyable path which leaves school as a poor second.

[Older Party]

Looking at the premium wine list made me chuckle at the "New World" title for the California wines. My dear friend and past Executive Chef at the Sofitel, Michel Roche, would probably disagree since he insists the first vine planted in California was brought over from France.

[palamoh]

Wes, thanks for your thoughts on Wine and your purchase range, which is identical to mine. One can find many Wine Bargins in the 88 to 92 Quality range, under 20 dollars. We have a Chain of Wine stores here in the Phoenix area call "Total Wine", it is a wharehouse as big as a Costco Store, with over 7,000 wines for sale and Wine tastings (free) every day,which is a good way to introduce oneself to many alternatives. This store gives great discounts on a weekly basis. I'll bet most of our cc members are in this same purchase category. Yes there is always that very special occasion, where a SPLURGE is in order and you are correct in fact very correct, excess SBC is a great way to indulge in a bottle or two that is outside of your normal price range.

PS you Forgot "PETRUS"

[critics0001]

I have been trying to get an idea of what "free" wines were provided by the ship. I was disappointed by a number of the wines that were listed. Many of the Chilean wines are of low quality, as reflected by their retail price of less than $7 per bottle. I do not want to be a wine snob but there are many very good wines from Chile that would cost them only a few $ more. For political balance I would hope they would include an Argentinean Malbec. I was surprised by the quality and in many cases the prices on the package list and C L list. I think the 5 bottle Pinot list is one that I would purchase. The Southern Hemisphere, Tuscany 2 and Piedmont were good choices. Finally the 4 bottle California package was very good if you dropped the Justin Cab . Since I was told there was no corkage, you can bring your own wine for special occasions. Is that true?
Thanks again for the information.

[Bobblsc]

Do not misunderstand me. I stand four square for free enterprise, even if it's expensive. Oh my gosh, what have I just said?

For Wes and others: The Tormaresca wine at a 90 point rating would seem to be truly fine tasting. But after reading " sweet red berries, dried flowers, herbs, and tobacco linger on the vinous finish..., I wonder what that means. What is the taste of "dried flowers", and I thought we all detested tobacco.

My taste buds are apparently yet to be fully developed. I seldom taste all the flavors that the wine critics list.

I really appreciated CanadianKate's referenced article. It concluded that the label can be more important than the wine itself, in terms of perceived value.

Finally, for this post, I know of the law of diminishing returns. My returns have diminished before I purchase an overly expensive wine.

That is all for my pontificating tonight.

I am pleased to have started this discussion. Perhaps this is where my leadership skills abound.

Bob

[Ravenscroft]

Originally Posted by critics0001

Since I was told there was no corkage, you can bring your own wine for special occasions. Is that true?

Yes it's true. You can ask the Head Sommelier to keep it for you, ie in appropriate temperatures and humidity.

[debmarie]

Originally Posted by Bobblsc

Our students all recognize a good beer.

Bob

I suspect my son is one of the students that Bob is referring to. I'm not sure that I see this as a good thing

[hoftraveler]

It was on the premium list. If I recall correctly, the price was $3,000. (That would use up quite a bit of most people's OBC.) The head sommelier confessed he'd yet to open one.

[Stumblefoot]

Originally Posted by Colonel(Ret.)Wes

Fyi, current connoisseur wine list attached as sent today from Fran Harris, Silversea Reservation Concierge

Colonel,

From your experience, do you think the connoisseur list from August is still current, or does it change on a regular, month-to-month basis?

If it changes, do you believe Ms. Harris would work with SS customers who have booked through a TA and be willing to provide an updated list? As goofy as this may sound, our cruise is in one month and I'd like to begin planning which bottles we'd like to enjoy whilst on board.

[NJ Jim]

Forgive my board name (when signing I impulsively picked a name that would be available and convey my wine interest), which I would love to change once I determine how, but as noted by Ravenscroft, SS advises they have a no corkage policy for wine. My wife and I are considering a SS cruise in May and I specifically asked this question of the SS representative. On 2 of our 3 past cruises (never SS), we brought our own wines since we were embarking at a time and place when transferring them was convenient. Regent and Oceania both allowed BYO but with corkage. We shared our wine with the stewards and/or sommelier, and only ended up paying the corkage ($25/bottle as I recall) on Oceania.

I think it makes considerable sense for the host, since by drinking wines brought on board, the ship is saving wine it other would be serving. For those of us who are "wine geeks," it enables us to enjoy wines from our cellar that otherwise would not be available to accompany the dinner. While this may not always be logistically feasible, it can be a way of addressing concerns about the quality of house pours or the cost of upgrading to premium wines that are available.

[CASHIPman]

Originally Posted by yquem

I think it makes considerable sense for the host, since by drinking wines brought on board, the ship is saving wine it other would be serving. For those of us who are "wine geeks," it enables us to enjoy wines from our cellar that otherwise would not be available to accompany the dinner. While this may not always be logistically feasible, it can be a way of addressing concerns about the quality of house pours or the cost of upgrading to premium wines that are available.

My partner is a wine geek as well and we have often brought wines on Silversea. We've always received excellent service and never have been charged a corkage fee. We've even taken wines from NYC to a Silversea ship in Mauritius!

[Scotspea]

[quote=yquem;35893184]Forgive my board name (when signing I impulsively picked a name that would be available and convey my wine interest),


It looks, tastes and sounds much better with the d'.

[57 varieties]

[quote=Scotspea;35898043]

Originally Posted by yquem

Forgive my board name (when signing I impulsively picked a name that would be available and convey my wine interest),


It looks, tastes and sounds much better with the d'.

. Well said!

[Mr Luxury]

I'll go the whole way and say that Chateau before d' would be the way to go.