Are there individual thermostats in Allure cabins?

Maybe cabin location has an effect, but cabin cooling has never been a problem for us on Oasis or Allure. We have sailed a lot on these ships in both winter and summer without a problem. In fact there have been times I think you could make ice cubes on the dresser if the thermostat was turned to the coldest setting. We have always stayed mid-ship on deck 12. At night we have the thermostat set just to the cold side of the center point and we need blankets on the bed. Good Luck

A few years back, we were in the Royal Family Suite on the Grandeur of the Seas. The master bedroom was warm when we boarded so I turned the thermostat down (and closed the blinds.)

When we came back to the cabin around 10pm it was still too warm (the rest of the suite was fine.) So I called Guest Services.

Fifteen minutes later two guys from the Engine Dept. showed up. It turned out that the control system for the damper in the ceiling wasn't working. After they fixed it, the temperature was nice and cool.

Aloha,

John

Feel free to put me on "ignore". I knew that the question would generate comments that the thermostat didn't appear to do anything, or that the rooms were always too cold or too hot, so I give some background information to possibly forestall people going to guest services, or here after the cruise, to complain about something that there is nothing that can be done about.

 

Hope this wasn't too over the top.;)

Please continue with the "way over the top" responses! :D

Please continue with the "way over the top" responses! :D

I agree. There is nothing wrong with actually learning something from time to time here on Cruise Critic.

The A/C is created in large air handling rooms, with fans and coolers that handle all the cabins for each fire zone (the areas between those annoying doors in the passageways), or each public space. Generally, these will supply air at 18-20*C (64-68*F), but by the time it gets to your cabin, depending on location, it may be warmer, as the temperature is only measured right at the cooler. The settings for these air handlers are based on design characteristics, and an assumed heat load (both from outside air temp and the number of bodies in the space), and do not fluctuate with demand from individual cabins.

 

Individual cabins will have a thermostat, and this allows you some control of the temp in your cabin in one of two ways. I don't know the Allure's system, so I don't know which applies. One way is to control the damper for the A/C air inlet to your cabin, so at coolest setting, you are just allowing the max amount of air at the main supply temperature (64-68F), adjusting higher reduces the air flow. Another way is that there is a small cooler unit somewhere in your cabin (under the vanity is common), and the thermostat controls whether a fan starts or stops and recirculates cabin air over a chilled water cooler (typically 55-60*F). This system is more expensive to build, as you need not only a cooler in each cabin, but all the miles of additional chilled water piping, so many ships use the damper method.

 

It's not so much that the balcony door is unlocked, it is when the door is opened, the damper closes to stop the A/C air to the cabin. Many people want the ocean sound from their balcony door, and put up with the loss of A/C. This can create a wind tunnel effect with some disagreeable noise in the passageway if too many cabins have their balcony doors open, and this will affect the air flow through all the spaces in that area, with resultant loss of cooling effect.

Actually, the cooling is done with pipes of liquid, not air. There are pipes that contain chilled water that move around the ship, and the air handler in your room passes the air in your room across coils which contain the cold liquid to chill the air in your room.

What you are describing would be prohibitive in terms of the space required to install and maintain the air ducts necessary to move the amount of air necessary to successfully heat or cool the ship. The design that you describe is more what an office building that has lots of extra space would have.

I know this because I actually asked the engineer on my behind the scenes tour on the Liberty two years ago.

Please continue with the "way over the top" responses! :D

Agreed! Your comments are among the very few I trust to be knowledgeable and accurate. Thank you for your insight.

Actually, the cooling is done with pipes of liquid, not air. There are pipes that contain chilled water that move around the ship, and the air handler in your room passes the air in your room across coils which contain the cold liquid to chill the air in your room.

 

What you are describing would be prohibitive in terms of the space required to install and maintain the air ducts necessary to move the amount of air necessary to successfully heat or cool the ship. The design that you describe is more what an office building that has lots of extra space would have.

 

I know this because I actually asked the engineer on my behind the scenes tour on the Liberty two years ago.

I agree has to be chilled water with small fan coil unit and maybe a hotwater coil for heat. This is what most commercial buildings have I have seen water from mid 40 to 55 degree chilled water.

Sent from my phone using Tapatalk 2- Please excuse any errors.

Actually, the cooling is done with pipes of liquid, not air. There are pipes that contain chilled water that move around the ship, and the air handler in your room passes the air in your room across coils which contain the cold liquid to chill the air in your room.

 

What you are describing would be prohibitive in terms of the space required to install and maintain the air ducts necessary to move the amount of air necessary to successfully heat or cool the ship. The design that you describe is more what an office building that has lots of extra space would have.

 

I know this because I actually asked the engineer on my behind the scenes tour on the Liberty two years ago.

And I have actually been in charge of the air conditioning equipment onboard cruise ships. Are you saying that there is no air supplied or removed from your cabin by ducting? How stale would that air be? All HVAC systems are designed with a 20% fresh air intake, a 20% air exhaust, and 80% recirculated air to the cooler/heater. Because of the need for fresh air intake and exhaust of stale air, you cannot have cooling just on the air in your room, or you would need a unit the size of a window air conditioner for each cabin, to bring the outside air temperature down to required supply temperature.

What you say is almost correct. Instead of a refrigerant compressor cooling all the air for the ship, the compressors in the engine room do chill water. This water is circulated throughout the ship, but its main use is in large air handler rooms where the air for a section of cabins or a public space is cooled. What do you think lives in those big white blank areas of the deck plans up around the guest cabin decks? Air handlers. That's why there is little fan noise in your cabin, because the fan is far away. These air handler rooms will sometimes be two to three decks high, and have 10 or so fans, filters, and cooling coils in them. There will be a return air duct from your cabin, and in the passageways, to return warm air to the air handlers for cooling again.

The individual room cooler that I mentioned as one method of controlling the room temperature via the thermostat, does use the chilled water to cool off the air drawn over the cooler by a very small fan. Since this is merely recirculating room air, the cooler coil and fan can be very small, as I said, it is commonly tucked under the vanity along with the sink plumbing.

I know how much air ducting, control dampers, fire dampers, and everything else that goes into a large HVAC system there is on a ship. That's why there is one engineer and several assistants whose sole responsibility is to maintain the HVAC system.

... Instead of a refrigerant compressor cooling all the air for the ship, the compressors in the engine room do chill water. This water is circulated throughout the ship, but its main use is in large air handler rooms where the air for a section of cabins or a public space is cooled. ....

So, do you think it's possible that the cruise line does not cool the water as much as they used to, in order to save fuel? The reason I say this is because when we started cruising, I never had to turn down the stateroom thermostat to max cooling. That would have made the stateroom uncomfortable cold. However, in the last few years, every stateroom we have had has had the thermostat turned down all the way, and it's still not cool enough for my taste.

I've also had two different chief engineers tell me that the ship uses more fuel for A/C than for propulsion. That leads me to believe there's been a fleet wide change in cooling temp spec as a cost saving measure.

I too am an air conditioning lover. Best invention of the 20th century. I find cruise ship A/C to be marginal; I have complimented this with a thin portable fan; it is about $25 at Bed Bath Beyond or Target, the power pack disconnects from the fan (so they won't take it) and it's just enough to keep air moving around and "feel" cooler on the ship. It is now a permanent part of our luggage. That's not really an answer to the OP's question, but it should help a bit.

I also notice more effective A/C in interior rooms; this may be due to their slightly smaller size compared to balcony rooms, or less radiant heat from the glass, or any other number of factors. I am not an HVAC engineer.

Hey, at least it's not Holland America who reportedly turns off their A/C units for a few hours a night...

I agree has to be chilled water with small fan coil unit and maybe a hotwater coil for heat. This is what most commercial buildings have I have seen water from mid 40 to 55 degree chilled water.

 

 

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Yes, its a chilled water system, I never said it wasn't. Commercial buildings do have this system, but is there a "small fan coil unit" for each office in the building? No. There is a fan coil unit that supplies air to an entire floor, or perhaps one for each suite of offices. If the air was not conditioned in central air handler rooms, there would be higher fan noise, there would be constant filter changes being made in passenger areas, etc. Use of central air handlers makes HVAC maintenance virtually invisible to the guests.

So, do you think it's possible that the cruise line does not cool the water as much as they used to, in order to save fuel? The reason I say this is because when we started cruising, I never had to turn down the stateroom thermostat to max cooling. That would have made the stateroom uncomfortable cold. However, in the last few years, every stateroom we have had has had the thermostat turned down all the way, and it's still not cool enough for my taste.

 

I've also had two different chief engineers tell me that the ship uses more fuel for A/C than for propulsion. That leads me to believe there's been a fleet wide change in cooling temp spec as a cost saving measure.

I would say that the decrease in effectiveness of the A/C systems is more due to the larger size of the ships (more surface area exposed to the ambient conditions, and the increase in number of balcony cabins with the balcony door replacing the insulated bulkhead. There is probably a trend to not to cool rooms as much as in the past, both as a cost (fuel) savings measure and to present a "green" approach (both less energy to cool excessively, and less fossil fuel burned).

When you consider that the ship needs one diesel generator to run the hotel load in port, and up to 5-6 when running at full speed, no I don't believe that the ship burns more fuel on A/C than propulsion. Each A/C compressor is about 2Mw, and ships will have between 4-8 of these, running anything between 1-8 depending on ships size, cruising area, and climate. So, at max, I would suspect Oasis/Allure to use about 8-12Mw of power on A/C, while the azipods are 60Mw total. Having said that, propulsion fuel cost cannot be changed once an itinerary is chosen, but A/C load, which is the largest share of hotel load can be changed significantly by increasing set temperatures by one or two degrees.

As LMaxwell points out, interior cabins will perform better, because they are surrounded on 6 sides by conditioned spaces, while outside cabins have the one wall to the outside. Insides are also insulated on all 6 sides, while balcony cabins have the heat gain through the glass door.

So, do you think it's possible that the cruise line does not cool the water as much as they used to, in order to save fuel? The reason I say this is because when we started cruising, I never had to turn down the stateroom thermostat to max cooling. That would have made the stateroom uncomfortable cold. However, in the last few years, every stateroom we have had has had the thermostat turned down all the way, and it's still not cool enough for my taste.

 

I've also had two different chief engineers tell me that the ship uses more fuel for A/C than for propulsion. That leads me to believe there's been a fleet wide change in cooling temp spec as a cost saving measure.

Well there chillers would be electric so using more would cost more in fuel etc

Sent from my phone using Tapatalk 2- Please excuse any errors.

I would say that the decrease in effectiveness of the A/C systems is more due to the larger size of the ships (more surface area exposed to the ambient conditions, and the increase in number of balcony cabins with the balcony door replacing the insulated bulkhead. There is probably a trend to not to cool rooms as much as in the past, both as a cost (fuel) savings measure and to present a "green" approach (both less energy to cool excessively, and less fossil fuel burned).

 

When you consider that the ship needs one diesel generator to run the hotel load in port, and up to 5-6 when running at full speed, no I don't believe that the ship burns more fuel on A/C than propulsion. Each A/C compressor is about 2Mw, and ships will have between 4-8 of these, running anything between 1-8 depending on ships size, cruising area, and climate. So, at max, I would suspect Oasis/Allure to use about 8-12Mw of power on A/C, while the azipods are 60Mw total. Having said that, propulsion fuel cost cannot be changed once an itinerary is chosen, but A/C load, which is the largest share of hotel load can be changed significantly by increasing set temperatures by one or two degrees.

 

As LMaxwell points out, interior cabins will perform better, because they are surrounded on 6 sides by conditioned spaces, while outside cabins have the one wall to the outside. Insides are also insulated on all 6 sides, while balcony cabins have the heat gain through the glass door.

Appreciate the details. It could be that the engineers I spoke to were on Monarch and maybe the nature of the short, slow runs, and long times in port changed the propulsion vs A/C equation somewhat.

Feel free to put me on "ignore". I knew that the question would generate comments that the thermostat didn't appear to do anything, or that the rooms were always too cold or too hot, so I give some background information to possibly forestall people going to guest services, or here after the cruise, to complain about something that there is nothing that can be done about.

 

Hope this wasn't too over the top.;)

Same here! I really enjoy your extremely technical information. I like to think I know a fair amount about, but certainly nothing compared to your knowledge and experience! We've discussed azipods and other things together and I really enjoy your informative posts.

I want to throw in my half a cent and say that I do enjoy reading ChEng's posts in various forums. He is obviously a trained and time tested professional and I, and many others, appreciate the technical explanations and learning new facts. They enhance our overall experience. I enjoy on cruises to watch the Sovereign of the Seas drydock and Voyager class design / build programs and I am sure others enjoy those aspects as well.

Suffice it to say, any thread where TheSeagull pops up just move an inch or two right or left and continue on. Should he hit you directly consider it good luck and wipe it off.

So, do you think it's possible that the cruise line does not cool the water as much as they used to, in order to save fuel? The reason I say this is because when we started cruising, I never had to turn down the stateroom thermostat to max cooling. That would have made the stateroom uncomfortable cold. However, in the last few years, every stateroom we have had has had the thermostat turned down all the way, and it's still not cool enough for my taste.

 

I've also had two different chief engineers tell me that the ship uses more fuel for A/C than for propulsion. That leads me to believe there's been a fleet wide change in cooling temp spec as a cost saving measure.

I'm really glad you asked this question. On Allure last July we were so hot and sweaty by aboout 4:00AM each night, Hubby believed Royal was turning OFF the air con late at night. The other times we have sailed on Oasis and Allure, we didn't have such a struggle with the air temperature.

I really appreciate ChengKP75's astute contributions to this discussion. I didn't really understand all of it, but I am sure it is very helpful to those who do.

Feel free to put me on "ignore". I knew that the question would generate comments that the thermostat didn't appear to do anything, or that the rooms were always too cold or too hot, so I give some background information to possibly forestall people going to guest services, or here after the cruise, to complain about something that there is nothing that can be done about.

 

Hope this wasn't too over the top.;)

I know the OP only wanted a "yes" or "no" answer, but I LOVE your replies..I always learn something new! Keep 'em coming!! :)

I'm really glad you asked this question. On Allure last July we were so hot and sweaty by aboout 4:00AM each night, Hubby believed Royal was turning OFF the air con late at night. The other times we have sailed on Oasis and Allure, we didn't have such a struggle with the air temperature.

 

I really appreciate ChengKP75's astute contributions to this discussion. I didn't really understand all of it, but I am sure it is very helpful to those who do.

I am wondering...We are big Disney fans and found that while there at night, the rooms would get very warm & uncomfortable...it turns out the A/C is motion activated. So now we put a balloon close to the sensor and the A/C does a great job at night. Could the Allure possible be the same? Motion activated? Or is that too expensive for a cruise ship? BTW when we were on the Oasis, we had no problems with our A/C and the outside temps were in the very high 90's! In fact, we had to turn the A/C down at night or it got too cold. We were almost exactly in the center of the ship at the time 6640 maybe that helped?

I am wondering...We are big Disney fans and found that while there at night, the rooms would get very warm & uncomfortable...it turns out the A/C is motion activated. So now we put a balloon close to the sensor and the A/C does a great job at night. Could the Allure possible be the same? Motion activated? Or is that too expensive for a cruise ship? BTW when we were on the Oasis, we had no problems with our A/C and the outside temps were in the very high 90's! In fact, we had to turn the A/C down at night or it got too cold. We were almost exactly in the center of the ship at the time 6640 maybe that helped?

I've heard that some ships are using the motion detection system, not to turn the a/c off, but to a higher set-back temp. However, usually the sensor would be pointed at the bed, so rolling over would trigger it. Unless you sleep like a mummy.:D

We felt that the cabins on the Oasis and Allure did seem to go up in temperature if we were out for some time. We were never able to crank them down to less than 72 degrees. And I did hear the AC back down in velocity (ie. noise) when the balcony door was opened. It didn't go completely off, just backed down in flow in my engineering opinion.

So, to resolve all these temperature questions, I suggest one get a travel clock that also displays the temperature. Takes all the guessing out feeling hot or cold. Stopped my DW of complaining when she could see the cabin temperature and realize it was not the AC but one of her "hot flashes".

On the Silhouette a couple of weeks ago we were able to crank down to 68 degrees.

I find on the Allure in May, I was a tad bit warm at night and i have it cranked to the coldest. I was once told never to hit the master switch becaues that would turn off the air ? Is that true I dont know but that is what my last room attendant told me. i used to bring a fan but after a while most nights i am so tired that by the time I go to bed it doesnt take much to make me fall alseep

I agree with everyone on this thread.

We were on the Allure last year and found our cabin to be too warm also. I found that the elevators were unbearably hot--especially on port days. People who don't have a lot of personal hygiene after a hot port day come on to the elevators and I try to hold my breath! It is difficult because the elevator does multiple stops!

I feel that the design of the ships brings heat into the bowels of the ship (Boardwalk, Central Park). And the elevators don't have fans or air conditioners. I found the theater to be warm also.

This problem is not on any of the other Royal or Celebrity ships I have sailed. But, I still love the Allure!!

I find on the Allure in May, I was a tad bit warm at night and i have it cranked to the coldest. I was once told never to hit the master switch becaues that would turn off the air ? Is that true I dont know but that is what my last room attendant told me. i used to bring a fan but after a while most nights i am so tired that by the time I go to bed it doesnt take much to make me fall alseep

Yes, the master switch will turn off the A/C.

Where is this master switch how can I tell it is this switch or another>