Port visits, many now departing 9pm or later

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#21
bristol
142 Posts
Joined Jul 2015
I guess it depends on your definition of evening! We are on the transatlantic on Azura in October. P&O customer services emailed me departure times a few weeks ago, all of which were 17:30 back on board time yet the website now shows the half moon/evening symbol for every port. Are p&o really claiming that 17:30 is 'early evening'? I can't find any mention on the website that defines evening as 9pm as suggested by an earlier post.


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#22
Stoke on Trent, England
4,854 Posts
Joined Apr 2008
If you click on the moon symbol it says that it will be departing at 9pm or later.

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#24
Devon, UK
4,292 Posts
Joined Aug 2005
Yes mine all say 9pm, but I don't believe we are staying in Cadiz until 9 at night. And in fact I have just checked the Cruise Ship Schedule page for the Port of Cadiz and we leave at 18:00, so as I thought, the P&O website tells porkies.
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Jean



#25
Edinburgh
3,107 Posts
Joined Jan 2008
Originally posted by daiB
Sorry not true the ships go at the speed which is required for the voyage. Nothing at all to do with saving money.


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I think it's chicken and egg. There are definitely more sea days for on the TAs we every Winter, so it takes longer to cross than it used to. Crossing the Atlantic the average speed can be 14 knots some days compared to the 20 it used to be.
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#26
Devon, UK
4,292 Posts
Joined Aug 2005
Oh and the same for Naples. We leave at 17:00 and that also says 9pm on P&O. I would believe the Port schedule any day.
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Jean



#27
West Yorkshire UK
3,092 Posts
Joined Jul 2004
Originally posted by daiB
Sorry not true the ships go at the speed which is required for the voyage. Nothing at all to do with saving money.


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This is one occasion where you are probably wrong Dai, unless you are going to argue with an experienced cruise ship deck officer, check out this link.

https://www.quora.com/How-fast-are-cruise-ships
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#28
Whitley Bay, North East England
6,307 Posts
Joined Nov 2006
Originally posted by Selbourne
I'm afraid that, on this one Dai, you are wrong. As I have proved in my example, they can get from A to B a lot quicker than the schedules. They choose not to do so. This very point was raised in a Q&A with the captain a few years ago (when they still did them) and the answer he gave was that there was an increased focus on fuel efficiency these days for both environmental and cost efficiency reasons. So, the speed is NOT set by the time required, because they can go quicker. It is set by the time they choose to make the journey from A to B. And in going slower they save money. Fact. Of course, it can be argued that ultimately this means that we save money as a result and we do less damage to the environment than we could otherwise do, but I found out last week that to fill up Britannia from empty would cost £1.15m, so to think that they aren't very focussed on timining itineraries in order to save money here and there would be extremely naive of us.
No I am not wrong there is no point in going so fast yo arrive in a port before 7.00. You gain nothing. It is quite irrelevant how fast they can go. What is important is how fast they need to go.

There was an instruction from Carnival about cutting speeds but that was at the night of the last oil crises. That passed some time ago.

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Dai
#29
England
652 Posts
Joined Aug 2014
Originally posted by terrierjohn
This is one occasion where you are probably wrong Dai, unless you are going to argue with an experienced cruise ship deck officer, check out this link.

https://www.quora.com/How-fast-are-cruise-ships
Thank you. The commentary from the officer is almost word for word what we were told a few years ago by a P&O captain and fits exactly with the contrast we are able to make between our first P&O cruise 21 years ago and our more recent ones. It's all common sense and of course probably helps to explain why cruising was so much more expensive (in real terms) than it is today. Just look at the improvement in miles per gallon that a car achieves on a motorway if you decrease speed by just 10mph and then consider the difference in gallons per mile for a cruise ship by reducing speed by just 1 knot! With the number of ships and mileage covered across the fleet, the saving would be measured in £m's. All good businesses these days cost engineer every element of their business and as fuel is one of P&O's biggest costs there is no way that they would overlook the opportunity to save vast sums of money by going slower than they need to between ports, especially as less time ashore means spending more money on board. It's a no brainer.
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#30
Whitley Bay, North East England
6,307 Posts
Joined Nov 2006
Originally posted by Selbourne
Thank you. The commentary from the officer is almost word for word what we were told a few years ago by a P&O captain and fits exactly with the contrast we are able to make between our first P&O cruise 21 years ago and our more recent ones. It's all common sense and of course probably helps to explain why cruising was so much more expensive (in real terms) than it is today. Just look at the improvement in miles per gallon that a car achieves on a motorway if you decrease speed by just 10mph and then consider the difference in gallons per mile for a cruise ship by reducing speed by just 1 knot! With the number of ships and mileage covered across the fleet, the saving would be measured in £m's. All good businesses these days cost engineer every element of their business and as fuel is one of P&O's biggest costs there is no way that they would overlook the opportunity to save vast sums of money by going slower than they need to between ports, especially as less time ashore means spending more money on board. It's a no brainer.
Exactly you were told a few years ago. When there was the oil price hike. That was then this is now. The shops go at a speed that will get them to the destination on time.

That is determined by the company 2/3/4 years in advance.

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Dai
#31
England
652 Posts
Joined Aug 2014
Originally posted by daiB
No I am not wrong there is no point in going so fast yo arrive in a port before 7.00. You gain nothing. It is quite irrelevant how fast they can go. What is important is how fast they need to go.

There was an instruction from Carnival about cutting speeds but that was at the night of the last oil crises. That passed some time ago.

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Nobody has suggested that they need to arrive anywhere before 7am. The issue is the other end of the day, when they now leave ports an hour or two earlier than they used to because they go slower between ports. And going slower costs less money. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. There are several reasons why it makes sense. But there is no way on Gods earth that they aren't still extremely focussed on reducing expenditure on fuel and will always be.
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674(A) Oriana 14/5/96. Southampton to Istanbul. 8 nights. Outside Cabin.
E620 Oceana 11/8/06. Mediterranean. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
E720 Oceana 12/8/07. Canaries. 13 nights. Outside Cabin.
X912 Oriana 24/7/09. Baltic. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
A118 Azura 5/8/11. Mediterranean. 16 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
N321 Ventura 18/8/13. Mediterranean. 14 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
B517 Britannia 15/8/15. Mediterranean. 14 nights. Suite.
B622 Britannia 23/7/16. Norwegian Fjords. 7 nights. Suite.
N703 Ventura 15/2/17. Amsterdam & Bruges. 4 nights. Penthouse Suite.

R705 Aurora 13/5/17. Baltic. 16 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin.
B721 Britannia 22/7/17. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Suite.
#32
England
652 Posts
Joined Aug 2014
Originally posted by daiB
Exactly you were told a few years ago. When there was the oil price hike. That was then this is now. The shops go at a speed that will get them to the destination on time.

That is determined by the company 2/3/4 years in advance.

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So, following your logic, can you explain why times in port have not increased again if that was a temporary issue? I'd suggest it's because the lower fuel volumes that they discovered that they could use would have been locked in to their business model. If you leave a port early, the time you 'have' to get to the next port is longer than the time you would 'need' if you left later. That means you can go slower, which saves money. Simple!
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P&O Cruises Experience – 134 nights over 11 cruises (Aurora, Azura, Britannia x 3, Oceana x 2, Oriana x 2, Ventura x 2)
P&O Cruises to Come - 62 nights over 5 cruises (2017 - Aurora, 2018 - Aurora, Arcadia, Aurora, 2019 - Aurora)

674(A) Oriana 14/5/96. Southampton to Istanbul. 8 nights. Outside Cabin.
E620 Oceana 11/8/06. Mediterranean. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
E720 Oceana 12/8/07. Canaries. 13 nights. Outside Cabin.
X912 Oriana 24/7/09. Baltic. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
A118 Azura 5/8/11. Mediterranean. 16 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
N321 Ventura 18/8/13. Mediterranean. 14 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
B517 Britannia 15/8/15. Mediterranean. 14 nights. Suite.
B622 Britannia 23/7/16. Norwegian Fjords. 7 nights. Suite.
N703 Ventura 15/2/17. Amsterdam & Bruges. 4 nights. Penthouse Suite.

R705 Aurora 13/5/17. Baltic. 16 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin.
B721 Britannia 22/7/17. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Suite.
#33
Southsea
173 Posts
Joined Jun 2016
Hmmmm computer glitch, well c/s told me today (as mentioned earlier) that the moon symbol definitely indicates 9pm or later departure...however "part moons" being wrongly placed must still be a possibility....i do wonder why no announcement has been made yet as this is quite an important change to port visits.
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Barrie
#34
cheshire
129 Posts
Joined Oct 2012
our cruise B804 shows the part moon , but cruise personalised is saying depart early evening , would folks think 9pm is early evening? More likely to be the usual departure time of 5.30pm
#35
Wiltshire, UK
26 Posts
Joined Jan 2014
Originally posted by janieb1962
our cruise B804 shows the part moon , but cruise personalised is saying depart early evening , would folks think 9pm is early evening? More likely to be the usual departure time of 5.30pm
Yes, same as my cruise Personaliser Janie - the CP indicates the late afternoon departures we are increasingly seeing with P&o now but, on the main website, all but one of the ports on the same cruise have the moon sign next to them indicating a 9pm leave.

Much as I would like the opposite to be true, surely it's got to be a computer glitch and these moon signs are currenty showing (incorrectly) on far too many of the ports.
#36
West Yorkshire UK
3,092 Posts
Joined Jul 2004
Originally posted by daiB
Exactly you were told a few years ago. When there was the oil price hike. That was then this is now. The shops go at a speed that will get them to the destination on time.

That is determined by the company 2/3/4 years in advance.

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Dai, there is no mention in the link I gave that ship speed reductions were limited to only the high oil price period, I highlight the relevant paragraph below, this makes it clear that cruise itineraries are arranged to optimise fuel cost savings.

We plan to sail the safest yet most efficient route, taking into account the distance from port to port, currents or weather systems that may help or slow us, and any other operational requirements including tours and loading of the ships stores. As ships have several smaller generators to power the propulsion, we will plan to sail at an efficient load on as few generators as possible, rather than having all the generators running at a low load.


This is presumably why some Canary and Caribbean ports could now have 9:00pm departures and still cruise slowly to the next port, but is also possibly why P&O (and maybe all Carnival brands) seem to have more sea days on exactly the same itineraries as the Royal Caribbean ships.

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Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the observance of fools. (Douglas Bader 1910-1982)
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. (Winston Churchill 1874-1965)
Future cruises --- Sept 2017 - RCI Navigator OTS - Canaries & N Africa.,Feb 2018 Ventura - Caribbean & USA., June 2018 Ventura - W. Med. Sept 2018 Azura - CanariesJan 2019 Ventura - Caribbean
Previous Cruises
March 92 - Carnival's Carnivale - Bahamas . October 97 - Thomson's Emerald, Med. Nov 2000 - Superstar Gemini, Straits of Malacca. Jan 2004 - Coral Princess - Panama-Carib. June 2005 - Island Princess - Alaska. Jan 2006 - P&O Arcadia - East/southern Carib. Feb 2007 - Celebrity Millenium - Eastern Carib. June 2007 - Tahitian Princess - Honolulu to Papeete. Feb 2008 - Sapphire Princess - Sydney to Auckland. Sept 2008 Emerald Princess - Mediterranean. March 2009 - Coral Princess - Panama Canal. Feb 2010 Celebrity Solstice - Eastern Caribbean . Aug 2011 P&O Azura- Canaries. June 2012 P&O Ventura Iceland & Fjords. Sept 2012 Celebrity Eclipse - Western Med; Apr 2013 P&O Azura Western Med. June 2013 Celebrity Eclipse - Baltic. Oct 2013 P&O Azura - Central Med. May 2014 Emerald Princess N. Spain & France. Sept. 2014 Celebrity Eclipse-Canaries & Azores, Apr 2015 P&O Britannia - W Med. June 2015 Celebrity Eclipse - Iceland & Fjords. Sept 2015 Celebrity Eclipse - Canaries & Azores. Jan 2016 P&O Ventura - No Fly Caribbean. Jun 2016 Eclipse - Baltic. Aug 2016 - Britannia Fjords, May 2017 - Azura W. Med.



#37
Wiltshire, UK
26 Posts
Joined Jan 2014
Originally posted by barriead
Hmmmm computer glitch, well c/s told me today (as mentioned earlier) that the moon symbol definitely indicates 9pm or later departure...however "part moons" being wrongly placed must still be a possibility....i do wonder why no announcement has been made yet as this is quite an important change to port visits.
Your spot on Barrie, the website (and therefore I suspect most of c/s who will presumably take this info as read too until told otherwise) now definitely shows a large number of port departures much later than normal/evenings. As you say, it's important info so announcements would be made surely?
#38
West Yorkshire UK
3,092 Posts
Joined Jul 2004
Originally posted by Dennis-The-Menace
Yes, same as my cruise Personaliser Janie - the CP indicates the late afternoon departures we are increasingly seeing with P&o now but, on the main website, all but one of the ports on the same cruise have the moon sign next to them indicating a 9pm leave.

Much as I would like the opposite to be true, surely it's got to be a computer glitch and these moon signs are currenty showing (incorrectly) on far too many of the ports.
Dennis, I think the half moon signs are for early evening which is presumably 5:30 - 6:00pm, the full moon signs are late evening probably around 9:00pm. If you expand the port info it gives you the old style departure info.
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Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the observance of fools. (Douglas Bader 1910-1982)
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. (Winston Churchill 1874-1965)
Future cruises --- Sept 2017 - RCI Navigator OTS - Canaries & N Africa.,Feb 2018 Ventura - Caribbean & USA., June 2018 Ventura - W. Med. Sept 2018 Azura - CanariesJan 2019 Ventura - Caribbean
Previous Cruises
March 92 - Carnival's Carnivale - Bahamas . October 97 - Thomson's Emerald, Med. Nov 2000 - Superstar Gemini, Straits of Malacca. Jan 2004 - Coral Princess - Panama-Carib. June 2005 - Island Princess - Alaska. Jan 2006 - P&O Arcadia - East/southern Carib. Feb 2007 - Celebrity Millenium - Eastern Carib. June 2007 - Tahitian Princess - Honolulu to Papeete. Feb 2008 - Sapphire Princess - Sydney to Auckland. Sept 2008 Emerald Princess - Mediterranean. March 2009 - Coral Princess - Panama Canal. Feb 2010 Celebrity Solstice - Eastern Caribbean . Aug 2011 P&O Azura- Canaries. June 2012 P&O Ventura Iceland & Fjords. Sept 2012 Celebrity Eclipse - Western Med; Apr 2013 P&O Azura Western Med. June 2013 Celebrity Eclipse - Baltic. Oct 2013 P&O Azura - Central Med. May 2014 Emerald Princess N. Spain & France. Sept. 2014 Celebrity Eclipse-Canaries & Azores, Apr 2015 P&O Britannia - W Med. June 2015 Celebrity Eclipse - Iceland & Fjords. Sept 2015 Celebrity Eclipse - Canaries & Azores. Jan 2016 P&O Ventura - No Fly Caribbean. Jun 2016 Eclipse - Baltic. Aug 2016 - Britannia Fjords, May 2017 - Azura W. Med.



#39
Surrey, UK
1,394 Posts
Joined May 2006
Why not just publish the times like other cruiselines do.
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#40
Wiltshire, UK
26 Posts
Joined Jan 2014
Originally posted by terrierjohn
Dennis, I think the half moon signs are for early evening which is presumably 5:30 - 6:00pm, the full moon signs are late evening probably around 9:00pm. If you expand the port info it gives you the old style departure info.
Hi john, yes that's how it used to work I know, but I now have a crescent moon sign which, when clicked on, says ship will leave at 9pm or later. Cruise Personaliser says the original/usual timings which I suspect the port timetables will also confirm.