Need help justifying prices on river cruises vs ocean cruises

HELP!!

I know that river cruises are wonderful since we sailed Amadeus last October, but we have friends who we are trying to talk into joining us on our next cruise. They are shocked that a 7 day cruise might cost them $2500 each.

They are used to the ocean cruise prices--about half that amount.

I told them how nice the ships are; free wine with dinner; excursions each day---how else can I persuade them that the price is worth it????

Thanks for your input. Those of who have gone on them, can appreciate the quality and smaller crowds, but I need some other "ammunition."

Mom C

I would have them add up the excursions on a large cruise ship and see what they come out at. Excursions in Europe are quite pricey on large cruise ships. Though, in the long run, it is going to be the itinerary that will either win or lose the river boat issue IMO.

While the itineraries will never be the same - I am not sure if I could justify 2x the cost if I am debating over 2 itineraries that I equally like with the more expensive being river cruises.

I actually am not personally convinced that river boats are better than cruises as a general statement (in Europe). It all comes down to the itinerary and what you want to see. I did a river boat in Russia as I wanted to see Russia and cruise ships only spend 2 or 3 days there verses the 2 weeks I spent on the river boat. There are definitely pros and cons to each. I personally was disappointed in the food on the ship and would have given an arm or leg (or both) to have food that I am used to on cruise ships.

MomC,

Some points (not valid with every cruise company, so I try to refer to Amadeus Waterways)

1. All excursions are included

2. Free wine/beer for dinner

3. Transfers included (when booking the flight through the cruise company)

4. Free internet (on Amadeus Waterways)

And here´s the main reason why river cruises are more expensive than ocean cruises:

1. With 2,500 passengers you can calculate your costs totally different than with only 100 (costs for fuel, food, staff - no low wages on river cruise ships, no real flag of convenience on river cruise ships)

2. Count up all the ocean vessels going into the Western Caribbean (take all US ports from Galveston, Huston, New Orleans, Miami, Port Everglades, Fort Lauterdale, Orlando...) and list up the berths and then count up all river cruise ships from all companies... Let´s say it´s 100,000 to 2,000 berths and then you can imagine that you have to pay more on a route with less berths.

steamboats

I appreciate your both helping me. I will use the facts you gave me, and, to me, the smaller, more intimate experience (plus the fact that you have a tour guide with you the entire time--who acts as your concierge in many cases when you need help with cabs and restaurant suggestions) makes it worth every penny.

River cruises are for those travelers who appreciate the finer travel experience--and in many cases, a higher class of clientelle. You won't find the riff raff on river cruises that we now find on many large cruise ships--witness jeans and shorts in the dining room on some ocean cruises.

I don't mean to sound judgmental, but the ocean cruise experience has changed in the past 20 years. And many of us who cruised back then, don't believe it's for the best. Something for every taste, however, makes traveling fun for everyone. I won't try to sell them on the bargain, but rather, on the smaller, more personal experience. Sound good??

Mom C

I thought when I read the title that the discussion would go the other way: why river cruises are such a bargain vs. ocean cruises. For years a Black Sea cruise has been on my wish list. Crystal (yes, a luxury line and worth it) lists on its website $5740 for the lowest category stateroom for its 12 day Black Sea cruise this summer. Uniworld shows $2799 for the lowest category for its 15 day (using the same method to count "days") Black Sea cruise -- and the Uniworld cruise has a more interesting itinerary, IMO.

Granted the Taras Shevchenko is no match for the Serenity. But here's the question I ask: how can I visit Yalta, Odessa and Istanbul on a ship and have a wonderful experience? Answer: either ship, but Uniworld offers the itinerary at a bargain.

If your friends are considering a river cruise in Europe, have them compare the other options for visiting the same places in Europe -- whether land tour or independent travel. The river cruises become very attractive and reasonable when viewed in that light.

We are booked on Amadeus' Istanbul to Budapest cruise in September -- our first river cruise after ocean cruising over the years on Windstar, HAL, Crystal, Regent, Royal Caribbean, Silversea, Seaborn and Orient -- and I am very pleased with the value.

We are visiting Yalta, Odessa, Istanbul, Kusadasi, Nessebar etc. on P&O in September. I'll let you know how that goes.

Our river cruise was a big disappointment, granted it was with Travelscope, but meals were all at 6.30, far too early for me and far too many coach journeys to see the sights.

Momc

Just because people prefer to dress casual does NOT make them riffraff.I have always found that those who judge others so harshly are very insecure.

 

River cruises are for those travelers who appreciate the finer travel experience--and in many cases, a higher class of clientelle. You won't find the riff raff on river cruises that we now find on many large cruise ships--witness jeans and shorts in the dining room on some ocean cruises.

 

Mom C

This was definitely not my experience with Amadeus. I have to say that I was really disappointed in Amadeus, to the point that I doubt I would sail them again. Because of the experience, I am hesitant to try river cruising again. I know I have to give it another try but when I am paying 2x (or more) for my vacation, one is hesitant.

I had really hoped that I would have fallen in love with river cruising but alas, that didn't happen. Maybe my expectations were too high.

My My...don't we have a diverse discussion going! I sailed Amadeus' Amalegro for the Christmas Markets this past December (2007). I loved it! As for the price, has anyone checked the value of the Euro and the Pound versus the Dollar lately??? Try staying at a decent hotel and dining out anywhere in Europe for 7 to 9 days, add in transportation, tours and "entertainment", and you might think river cruising is a bargain! We ate every meal on board, participated in all of the included excursions and several optional ones, and had very good wine with dinner every night. (DH only drinks diet soda...the large ocean ships charge exhorbitant fees for soda. Soda was gratis at dinner, along with wine and beer, on the Amalegro).

I will admit the food on the Amalegro was not as good as on Oceania's Regatta, but we didn't exactly starve. I didn't miss NOT having room service, midnight buffets, or 24 hour dining venues. I was there to see the sights, eat, sleep, and get up the next day to see more sights. The bed was extemely comfortable, the room was clean, the ship was perfectly accessable, and the staff was great! The only thing incorrect about Steamboats list of ammenitites is Internet access...it worked at best 3% of the time. The other 97% it simply didn't work, but again, I wasn't there to keep up on my email...I was there to see parts of Europe I had only read/dreamed about. So no Internet was "no big deal".

If you are "in" to slot machines/gambling, big production entertainment, food nonstop, long waits on and off a huge mega-ship, then ocean cruising is for you. But if you like smaller crowds, walking on and off the ship with no x-ray machine needed, adequate-but-not-over-abundant food, cultural experiences instead of "entertainment", and a crew director who knows you by name within a few days, then you ought to try river cruising!!!

(As for the "dressing up" issue, our cruise had a little of everything. We preferred casual...the fine jewelry and fancy clothes stayed at home. But a few people went the other route and brought dressier clothes. No one seemed out of place...everyone happily co-existed for 7 days).

My My...don't we have a diverse discussion going! I sailed Amadeus' Amalegro for the Christmas Markets this past December (2007). I loved it! As for the price' date=' has anyone checked the value of the Euro and the Pound versus the Dollar lately??? Try staying at a decent hotel and dining out anywhere in Europe for 7 to 9 days, add in transportation, tours and "entertainment", and you might think river cruising is a bargain! We ate every meal on board, participated in all of the included excursions and several optional ones, and had very good wine with dinner every night. (DH only drinks diet soda...the large ocean ships charge exhorbitant fees for soda. Soda was gratis at dinner, along with wine and beer, on the Amalegro).

 

I will admit the food on the Amalegro was not as good as on Oceania's Regatta, but we didn't exactly starve. I didn't miss NOT having room service, midnight buffets, or 24 hour dining venues. I was there to see the sights, eat, sleep, and get up the next day to see more sights. The bed was extemely comfortable, the room was clean, the ship was perfectly accessable, and the staff was great! The only thing incorrect about Steamboats list of ammenitites is Internet access...it worked at best 3% of the time. The other 97% it simply didn't work, but again, I wasn't there to keep up on my email...I was there to see parts of Europe I had only read/dreamed about. So no Internet was "no big deal".

 

If you are "in" to slot machines/gambling, big production entertainment, food nonstop, long waits on and off a huge mega-ship, then ocean cruising is for you. But if you like smaller crowds, walking on and off the ship with no x-ray machine needed, adequate-but-not-over-abundant food, cultural experiences instead of "entertainment", and a crew director who knows you by name within a few days, then you ought to try river cruising!!!

.[/quote']

 

Well - I am not into gambling (never do it), I can take or leave big production shows, and don't require food nonstop, nor do I need midnight buffets. I would have been happy with edible food, actually. I have never been so thrilled to have plane food in my life. There was no soda gratis and the beds felt like military cots. While I thought the CD was very nice, she was incredibly overworked. She failed to re-arrange our schedule to see some major sites when made aware of the sites being closed days in advance. BTW - we were the ones to inform her of the closing, she did not know this on her own.

 

I am glad that your cruise met your expectations. Mine fell far below it. I was actually happy that I used FF miles for this trip as if I had added the cost of flights to the cost of the cruise, I would have felt like I wasted my money. I guess not all river cruises are made the same.

First, I am sorry if I offended anyone with my "riff raff" comments. I am not insecure as someone remarked, but I was raised to respect dress requirements. And with some people who are going on ocean cruises expecting to be able to dine in the main dining room at night in shorts, football jerseys, and jeans, I believe that they are being disrespectful to the

cruise line and to fellow cruisers. That's all I meant by that statement. I have no problem with shorts and jeans during the day in all dining venues, but at night in the main dining room which is supposed to be an upscale dining venue, I believe that dress codes needs to be heeded.

That being said, I realize that river cruises by and large have a less formal dress code for meals--even dinners. I never saw anyone inappropriately dressed for any meal on our Amadeus cruise. Even after a full day of touring, people were appropriately attired.

I agree that the food on our Amadeus cruise was less tasty than most ocean cruise ships that I have sailed on; not bad, but a 5 to7 out of 10. We wrote this on our comment cards, and it's been a standard criticism for Amadeus cruises on these boards. I am hoping that the company has listened to their clients and has worked to improve this. It was our experience in October that the cooks appeared quite young and may not have had the training to warrent being in charge. The head chef looked to be no more than 28 or 30. But we never had a bad meal.

Thank you for your comments--both positive and negative. I certainly agree that what is one person's best trip ever, may not live up to that billing for someone else. Being informed and forewarned seem to be the best way to eliminate someone from being disappointed. I will be very honest with my friends and will share your views with them as well as my own.

I love Cruise Critic; you people always bring insight and thought to my questions.

Mom C

First, I am sorry if I offended anyone with my "riff raff" comments. I am not insecure as someone remarked, but I was raised to respect dress requirements. And with some people who are going on ocean cruises expecting to be able to dine in the main dining room at night in shorts, football jerseys, and jeans, I believe that they are being disrespectful to the

cruise line and to fellow cruisers. That's all I meant by that statement. I have no problem with shorts and jeans during the day in all dining venues, but at night in the main dining room which is supposed to be an upscale dining venue, I believe that dress codes needs to be heeded.

That being said, I realize that river cruises by and large have a less formal dress code for meals--even dinners. I never saw anyone inappropriately dressed for any meal on our Amadeus cruise. Even after a full day of touring, people were appropriately attired.

I agree that the food on our Amadeus cruise was less tasty than most ocean cruise ships that I have sailed on; not bad, but a 5 to7 out of 10. We wrote this on our comment cards, and it's been a standard criticism for Amadeus cruises on these boards. I am hoping that the company has listened to their clients and has worked to improve this. It was our experience in October that the cooks appeared quite young and may not have had the training to warrent being in charge. The head chef looked to be no more than 28 or 30. But we never had a bad meal.

Thank you for your comments--both positive and negative. I certainly agree that what is one person's best trip ever, may not live up to that billing for someone else. Being informed and forewarned seem to be the best way to eliminate someone from being disappointed. I will be very honest with my friends and will share your views with them as well as my own.

I love Cruise Critic; you people always bring insight and thought to my questions.

Mom C

Value is more than just dollars. It is what you get for your money that counts. A cheap holiday that doesn't meet your expectations is no bargain.

Holiday time is too valuable ! How do you put a dollar sign on an experience like floating down some of the great rivers of Europe while watching the castles, little villages and farms float by? There is no more relaxing way to travel Europe and to see it from its truest side - the rivers - where the towns began.How about opening your French balcony at night so that you can see the stars overhead and hear the river bubbling quietly below you? A glass of local wine in hand while passing the vineyards from which those grapes came! Those are some of the reasons that river boats make unforgettable memories and great value.

I feel a 7 day river cruise is too short .

The worst part is the flight over and back. but value is different than cost.

I would not give up either river or ocean, but the included city tours give a big add to the river cruises value.

I would live on an Oceania ship.

I would live on an Oceania ship.

Me TOO!!!

Lyn

the thread is 3 yrs old

MomC,

 

Some points (not valid with every cruise company, so I try to refer to Amadeus Waterways)

 

1. All excursions are included

 

2. Free wine/beer for dinner

 

3. Transfers included (when booking the flight through the cruise company)

 

4. Free internet (on Amadeus Waterways)

 

And here´s the main reason why river cruises are more expensive than ocean cruises:

 

1. With 2,500 passengers you can calculate your costs totally different than with only 100 (costs for fuel, food, staff - no low wages on river cruise ships, no real flag of convenience on river cruise ships)

 

2. Count up all the ocean vessels going into the Western Caribbean (take all US ports from Galveston, Huston, New Orleans, Miami, Port Everglades, Fort Lauterdale, Orlando...) and list up the berths and then count up all river cruise ships from all companies... Let´s say it´s 100,000 to 2,000 berths and then you can imagine that you have to pay more on a route with less berths.

 

steamboats

Good job explaining the difference.

I would add that a river cruise is with a small number of passengers (usually 65-240). A river cruise offers you the opportunity to sit on the deck with your drink and watch the countryside go by. An ocean cruise will allow you to see ports, but generally not much of the country.

Further, the river cruises take you places that are not overrun by massive numbers of ship's tourists on excursions. In some ports in the Med, you will be in port with multiple ships and thousands of passengers. On a river cruise, there will be other riverboats, but no where near the numbers.

We took our first river cruise last year on the Amadolce on the Danube Budapest to Bucharest. We opted not to go on the land tour portion to Istanbul as we had already been to Istanbul. We stayed in Budapest for 5 days pre cruise and toured Transylvania for three days post cruise with our own guide. IMHO, the land portions of the trip we did on our own were the best parts of the trip. This part of the Danube is not the most exciting----not a lot of scenery, castles, etc. and ports were not the best either. The guides were okay but our groups were about 25-30 people to a group. The excursions generally consisted of just walking around the towns and getting political viewpoints. In addition, several of the ports required rather lengthy bus rides because the ports weren't near the towns. Not to say it was a bad trip....it just wasn't our cup of tea (both the itinerary and the river cruise). On days when we didn't stop at any ports, there was virtually nothing to do except sit on the top deck (it was hot up there) and read as most of the scenery was just riverbanks. There were a few weights and two treadmills that didn't work in their so called gym which was about the size of our closet. The food was a mixed bag---some of it was really good and some wasn't so good. . I wouldn't rate any of it as being bad food but the breakfasts in particular were lacking. Same thing for the other passengers on the trip....some were really great and we so enjoyed meeting them and then there were others who were quite obnoxious. I would say that the number of nice people far outweighed the number of obnoxious ones but the obnoxious ones were pretty annoying. We also did a Seabourne cruise last year in Southeast Asia. I really preferred it over the river cruising. Next year we are cruising with Oceania on a 14 day Northern Europe itinerary. I understand that we have only experienced one river cruise and that there may be others which are much better but I'm not willing to take a chance on another river cruise that we might not like. We have always liked the ocean cruises and feel that we received great value even on the luxury lines. Usually we book our own excursions with private guides---I would rather pay extra for a good private guide who will take us where we want to go than have a free guide that does a mediocre job. I feel like the ocean cruises offer far more value and next time we want to do a land trip in the interior of the country, we will opt for a land tour. I hate that this sounds so negative but this is how we feel about the river cruise. I'm sure there are others that would differ and I know there are many who absolutely love river cruising so bottom line, I think it is a matter of personal preference.

We took our first river cruise last year on the Amadolce on the Danube Budapest to Bucharest. We opted not to go on the land tour portion to Istanbul as we had already been to Istanbul. We stayed in Budapest for 5 days pre cruise and toured Transylvania for three days post cruise with our own guide. IMHO, the land portions of the trip we did on our own were the best parts of the trip. This part of the Danube is not the most exciting----not a lot of scenery, castles, etc. and ports were not the best either. The guides were okay but our groups were about 25-30 people to a group. The excursions generally consisted of just walking around the towns and getting political viewpoints. In addition, several of the ports required rather lengthy bus rides because the ports weren't near the towns. Not to say it was a bad trip....it just wasn't our cup of tea (both the itinerary and the river cruise). On days when we didn't stop at any ports, there was virtually nothing to do except sit on the top deck (it was hot up there) and read as most of the scenery was just riverbanks. There were a few weights and two treadmills that didn't work in their so called gym which was about the size of our closet. The food was a mixed bag---some of it was really good and some wasn't so good. . I wouldn't rate any of it as being bad food but the breakfasts in particular were lacking. Same thing for the other passengers on the trip....some were really great and we so enjoyed meeting them and then there were others who were quite obnoxious. I would say that the number of nice people far outweighed the number of obnoxious ones but the obnoxious ones were pretty annoying. We also did a Seabourne cruise last year in Southeast Asia. I really preferred it over the river cruising. Next year we are cruising with Oceania on a 14 day Northern Europe itinerary. I understand that we have only experienced one river cruise and that there may be others which are much better but I'm not willing to take a chance on another river cruise that we might not like. We have always liked the ocean cruises and feel that we received great value even on the luxury lines. Usually we book our own excursions with private guides---I would rather pay extra for a good private guide who will take us where we want to go than have a free guide that does a mediocre job. I feel like the ocean cruises offer far more value and next time we want to do a land trip in the interior of the country, we will opt for a land tour. I hate that this sounds so negative but this is how we feel about the river cruise. I'm sure there are others that would differ and I know there are many who absolutely love river cruising so bottom line, I think it is a matter of personal preference.

Your post only goes to confirm why there are so many choices and options in travel:D We've done 9 river/small ship cruises, I don't know how many land trips and 1 ocean cruise. Guess what? We love river cruising but had such a bad experience on our ocean cruise that I don't think we'll ever do it again! As for guides, I think a lot of it depends on the company you choose. Travel is one area where I think you really do get what you pay for (except on rare occasions when you don't!) We've traveled with Vantage, Trafalgar, Mayflower and Holland America as well as on our own. We love Vantage and Trafalgar and find them to be our companies of first choice having never had a bad experience with either of them. You are absolutely right, it is a matter of personal preference and as long as you're getting out of the trip what you expected and wanted, you've made the right choice!:)

This is an interesting thread. We love ocean cruising and have logged about 200 days doing it, mostly on Regent, now all inclusive (including coach air), one of the luxury lines. We will always love ocean cruising. Our first and only riverboat cruise was on the Yangsee in China. We were in one of the two suites. Our five days on the Yangsee were one of our most memorable travel experiences. It was less expensive than a standard cabin on a luxury cruise. We now have two more riverboat cruises booked, this November on AMA on the Mekong River and next year on Tauck from Budapest to Amstderdam. Both future trips are in suites and are a bit less expensive than a standard cabin on Regent. We have booked these riverboat trips because they take us places we can't see on an ocean cruise. So the price differential wasn't a factor in our decision to book these trips. The fact we would only have to unpack once was the selling point.

Island Cruiser - I would love to hear about both upcoming voyages on the Mekong and with Tauck. I have been on 31 ocean cruises and took my first river cruise last year on the Danube. While totally different from the ocean cruises, I enjoyed the river cruise enough to want to do another one with friends this year. I am very interested in doing the Mekong next year and although my experience has been with AMA, would like to know more about Tauck, which gets such good reviews.

Island Cruiser, You are going to love your Tauck cruise in a suite. They have fabulous bathrooms and are not that different in size from most ocean cabins below ph class. In addition the itinerary is terrific.

We are looking forward to both trips immensely and will definitely post reviews. We have booked suites because one of us just wouldn't do well in a really small space.

Very hard to get a cruise ship into Vienna or Budapest or see the castles along the Rhine.