new PADI scuba diver question

I just completed my open water dives this summer (diving to 40 feet) and am now a PADI certified diver. I am 63 (always wanted to learn to dive). I am going on a cruise in November and will dive in either Cayman or Cozumel or both. I know Cozumel is a drift dive. Will one dive site be easier than another or would you recommend one over the other and why. I have snorkelled a lot and am very comfortable in the water but still I know I will be a little nervous diving for the first time in the carribean. Thank you for your advise.

you already know Coz is most likely a drift dive ... a boat drift dive. I say most likely because you MIGHT hit slack current but that's unlikely

Cayman is pretty much current free. Therefore easier IMO.

In either place if you do boat dives they are going to be deeper than you have yet done ... in Cayman a standard wall dive is below 80 feet. My first dive (of a two tank trip) was usually 80 in Coz as well . . . are you OK with that depth yet?

You might want to look nto a shore dive in Cayman at Sunset House or Eden Rock, both written on many many times here. Easy dives but nice. Depths will not exceed 60 feet. Easy navigation but you CAN hire a guide both places if desired . . .

Thank you for your help. Yes I think I will look into a shore dive. I need more dive time at a shallow depth, I thank you.

http://www.sunsethouse.com/

if you want to set up an escorted dive, e-mail the dive manager

roger@sunsethouse.com

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http://www.edenrockdive.com/

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both places have rental gear aplenty .... and similar dive profiles. This is 'iron shore' and where you get in the water will be 15 to 20 ... then as you proceed west you find the fingers of reef that extend out from shore ... the slope is gentle until about 60 feet depth where a sand area begins. If you swam further out from here another 50 yards or so you'd find the top of the wall. On top of the coral formations the depth will be 15 to 40 feet .... hug the bottom of the sand chutes and you may find 60. No charge to dive at either, only to rent gear (both have a no outside tank policy so they get a couple of bucks for the tank . . .)

EDEN has a bunch of swim thrus (caves but you can see both ends) and is the site nearest the tender landings. For this reason it can be more crowded.

Sunset House is less than one mile to the south of the tender landings. A nice walk or a short taxi. No swim thrus but a sunken landing craft and the mermaid statue .... and for after the dive My Bar . . . they are most happy to have others in your group hang at My Bar and the pool while you dive

At EDEN, Paradise Grill is close by . . .

you could easily and safely do 2 dives at either place. Trying one at each might be a logistical challenge and not worth the effort. I have 10ish dives at Eden and 80ish dives on Sunset .... I do week long stays at Sunset and do a shore dive every day or night and occasionally both when conditions permit.

{p.s. you are PADI OPEN WATER DIVER certified, yes?}

dd and I geared up and ready for a nite dive at Sunset House

you already know Coz is most likely a drift dive ... a boat drift dive. I say most likely because you MIGHT hit slack current but that's unlikely

 

Cayman is pretty much current free. Therefore easier IMO.

 

In either place if you do boat dives they are going to be deeper than you have yet done ... in Cayman a standard wall dive is below 80 feet. My first dive (of a two tank trip) was usually 80 in Coz as well . . . are you OK with that depth yet?

 

You might want to look nto a shore dive in Cayman at Sunset House or Eden Rock, both written on many many times here. Easy dives but nice. Depths will not exceed 60 feet. Easy navigation but you CAN hire a guide both places if desired . . .

I second all this. Shallow shore dives are, in my opinion, the best way to get some dive experience as a novice.

When you say "diving to 40 feet", do you have a Scuba Diver or Open Water Certification? As I understand it, Scuba Diver means you have to have a guide with you. Shore diving is still a great way to get started but you'll have no choice but to hire a guide and MIGHT be limited to PADI shops. Calling ahead of time would be a good idea.

I just completed my open water dives this summer (diving to 40 feet) and am now a PADI certified diver. I am 63 (always wanted to learn to dive). I am going on a cruise in November and will dive in either Cayman or Cozumel or both. I know Cozumel is a drift dive. Will one dive site be easier than another or would you recommend one over the other and why. I have snorkelled a lot and am very comfortable in the water but still I know I will be a little nervous diving for the first time in the carribean. Thank you for your advise.

If you choose Cozumel, which really is wonderful diving, try to dive with Alison. She is great with new divers and will pick a fairly shallow site (Columbia Shallows) or stay with you on top of the reef while other divers might go deeper over the wall. You can contact her through her website dive with alison dot com. I wouldn't recommend shore diving unless you go with a dive master. Even then if you have problems it's quite a swim back. Perhaps think about diving Stingray City in Caymen, which is shallow and quite an interesting experience. In any case, make arrangements ahead of time. If you don't you probably won't find a decent operator. Avoid the ship's excursions!

I just completed my open water dives this summer (diving to 40 feet) and am now a PADI certified diver. I am 63 (always wanted to learn to dive). I am going on a cruise in November and will dive in either Cayman or Cozumel or both. I know Cozumel is a drift dive. Will one dive site be easier than another or would you recommend one over the other and why. I have snorkelled a lot and am very comfortable in the water but still I know I will be a little nervous diving for the first time in the carribean. Thank you for your advise.

Did you do 2 dives or 4? I am assuming this diver is certified at the Scuba Diver level with 2 dives due to the 40 ft limit--it would be 60 ft if the person is Open Water certified. Please consider doing the Open Water Cert. for more variety in diving experiences............

not to pik nits, but I did ask this same question in post #4

however there are some follow - on misleads ... or details IMO

PADI SCUBA DIVER certification - 2 check out dives - does require an dive master escort AND observe a limit of 40 foot depth. See:

http://www.padi.com/scuba-diving/padi-courses/course-catalog/padi-scuba-diver/

{why I never recommend this course ... there is NO course to pick up "part two"}

PADI OPEN WATER DIVER - four check out dives required - has no depth limit that I'm aware of other than the recreational limits which are typically 130 feet.

MOST Cayman dive operators follow CITA, Cayman Islands Tourism Associations recommendations. From SunsetHouse.com:

CITA members comply with a recommended 100 feet (30 meters) for recreational scuba customers. The required maximum depth with recreational scuba customers is 130feet/39meters and 100feet/30 meters for repetitive dives the same day. Since our days start with a two tank dive, Sunset Divers sets a safe 100′ safety limit and ...

OP COULD be Open Water certified . . . It is entirely possible for someone to obtain OPEN WATER DIVER and never exceed 40 feet during their training. DD complete PADI OPEN WATER within the last 2 years and I went on all of her checkout dives in Key Largo. To get much deeper than 40 feet where the dives happened, one would have needed to dig a hole in the bottom! I'm not an instructor but I'm not aware of a depth requirement on a check out dive. DD was doing wall dives in Cayman soon after and now has over 100 dives logged ... Cayman, Roatan and Curacao. I am NOT saying OP should do a deep wall dive .... beginners should dive within their comfort zone and with an escort until comfortable. DD only dove with me as buddy for first 20 dives, and many of those were with a DM as well (Cayman wall trips are usually escorted dives)

WAY BACK when I was first certified the courses were much more technical (pre computer and J valves were the rage). We were taught that if you could get past 33 feet you would almost certainly be OK to 100 ... BECAUSE at 33 feet the pressure on the body has DOUBLED versus on the surface. You realize ONE atmosphere of pressure on the surface, and at 33 feet TWO atmospheres ... it DOUBLES. At 66 feet the change was from 2 to 3 .... much less of a relative change; it did not double, it went up by 1/2 ... 66 to 99 is from 3 to 4 .. again the relative change is smaller. Which is why you need to equalize LOT when first heading down, and less as you get deeper . . . Might be b.s. but I DO find that if my ears are touchy and I can get to 40 I seem to fine no matter how much farther I do down . . .

(remember the pressure of a 33 foot column of water is the same as 'normal' atmospheric pressure ... approx. 14.7 psi)

 

PADI SCUBA DIVER certification - 2 check out dives - does require an dive master escort AND observe a limit of 40 foot depth. See:

http://www.padi.com/scuba-diving/padi-courses/course-catalog/padi-scuba-diver/

{why I never recommend this course ... there is NO course to pick up "part two"}

 

PADI OPEN WATER DIVER - four check out dives required - has no depth limit that I'm aware of other than the recreational limits which are typically 130 feet.

 

The PADI depth limit for Open Water Divers is 60 ft and has been for some time. When you and I got certed it was 130 ft. Now, that is the realm of the Advanced certified. There are many places where one must be Advanced in order to do most boat dives, such as Palm Beach County where relatively few dives are less than 60 ft. There are some though. Breakers Reef off West Palm Beach is 40-60 and very nice.......

The follow on course for Scuba Divers to complete the Open Water Diver course is by doing 2 more dives and some academics--this is easily set up.

Most of the dive ops around here enforce the 60 ft limit as their insurance can be affected if they don't. An accomplished uw photog I am aware of recently did the Advanced as he got tired of the hassel from dive ops............

I have probably 150-200 dives in Cozumel, so I want to address the OP about diving there. I see zero problem with you diving there, even with the current. The reason is because in Cozumel you jump off the boat, go down to depth with your DM (Cozumel law is no more than 8 divers per DM), and then you drift. That is all you do. No kicking is needed usually, just relax and drift. When the dive is over, you will all ascend to your safety stop, the DM will send up a marker, and the boat comes to you. All you do from there is surface and get on the boat. It really is easy diving for the most part. NO dive op that services the cruise boats will drop you on a reef with raging current that requires advanced skills!! They are going to take you down to 60-80' of the first dive, then do an easy shallow dive, probably Paradise reef which is right near the cruise pier, for an easy 30-40' dive.

So my opinion, Cozumel diving is some of the best in the Caribbean. That is why I have so many dives there. You didn't get certified to dive just to see a sandy shore dive site, you want to see reefs and fish!

I have probably 150-200 dives in Cozumel, so I want to address the OP about diving there. I see zero problem with you diving there, even with the current. The reason is because in Cozumel you jump off the boat, go down to depth with your DM (Cozumel law is no more than 8 divers per DM), and then you drift. That is all you do. No kicking is needed usually, just relax and drift. When the dive is over, you will all ascend to your safety stop, the DM will send up a marker, and the boat comes to you. All you do from there is surface and get on the boat. It really is easy diving for the most part. NO dive op that services the cruise boats will drop you on a reef with raging current that requires advanced skills!! They are going to take you down to 60-80' of the first dive, then do an easy shallow dive, probably Paradise reef which is right near the cruise pier, for an easy 30-40' dive.

 

So my opinion, Cozumel diving is some of the best in the Caribbean. That is why I have so many dives there. You didn't get certified to dive just to see a sandy shore dive site, you want to see reefs and fish!

We agree with ABQrobin , you should dive from a boat in Cozumel . If you book independently from the cruise ship's tour , with the money saved , you can afford your own divemaster - as a buddy ! It's much safer and more enjoyable as they find interesting things to show you . It's a great $ 40 investment :):D

The PADI depth limit for Open Water Divers is 60 ft and has been for some time.

sorry to disagree. This is from the PADI web site, today:

With the necessary training and experience, the limit for recreational scuba diving is 40 metres/130 feet. see FAQS at PADI.com

PADI goes on to say: Beginning scuba divers stay shallower than about 18 metres/60 feet. but beginning is undefined . . A checkout should not be done deeper than 60, but how many dives to go beyond beginner.

I believe you interpret the existence of an ADVANCED certification to be a requirement but this is not the case. PADI ADVANCED certification requires, and documents, a "deep" dive has been completed but OPEN WATER is considered 'necessary training'. I know people with advanced certification and fewer than a dozen open water dives, and DD with "only" open water has over 100 with at least a third of those significantly deeper than 60 ... who's the beginner?

I'll bet a chocolate donut that the majority of the divers on any Cayman Wall dive trip hold OPEN WATER only .... I KNOW that's all that's required.

So far as experience .... that's a personal thing. I've NEVER been asked to show a log book to prove my experience .. nor DD ... I've been diving around Florida since the 80's .. just dove off Jupiter the other day and they had no problem with depth and her OW cert'

p.s. I checked NAUI ..... they mirror the PADI courses pretty well and mention no depth limit for an open water diver . .

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anyone who's been to EDEN ROCK, Devil's Grotto, or Sunset Reef will tell you it is ANYTHING but a sandy shore dive . . .

air shot of Sunset House ... built on iron shore, which is ancient now exposed coral ...

I read the same PADI site yesterday--confirming what the ops do enforce in Palm Beach. The depth limit for Open Water certs is 60 feet as your quote indicates! Why would you use that to try to prove the opposite?

You and I don't need to show logs or cards diving here as long as we dive with those who know us, but others do; as did the long time diver who did the Advanced class I mentioned.

You are giving inaccurate info to beginner divers whose depth limit is 60 ft according to the same PADI site you quoted and then included in your response to me. Virtually everyone asking questions here IS a beginner diver so please don't offer what "used to be" as a response. You and I and our 40 year old cards are what used to be! :)

I my be able to shed some light on this thread - which has somewhat gone off topic - or I may add fuel to the fire. I'm an SSI Instructor, but the basic issue applies regardless of training agency.

PADI, SSI, and all the other training agencies, subscribe to the standards promulgated by the RSTC, Recreational Scuba Training Council.

Depth limits are somewhat confusing, as noted above.

There are indeed three depth limits that get mentioned, 60 feet, 100 feet, and 130 feet.

60 FEET: Is the maximum depth to which an open water training dive can be conducted (and then only after the first two which are limited to 40 feet). These are the required open water dives during training. So the 60 foot limit applies DURING the course, not after its completion.

100 FEET: Is considered the limit of recreational diving.

130 FEET: Is the absolute limit of "no-decompression" diving.

Once a diver has completed Open Water certification, they are considered an "Autonomous Diver". They can go to a dive shop obtain air fills, and dive. They can dive without any supervision by an instructor or divemaster.

In the Open Water course, students are encouraged not to dive below 60 feet, without specialty training in Deep Diving. 60 Feet is considering the beginning of "deep diving".

In the Open Water course 100 feet is identified as the limit of recreational diving.

Every agency's published dive tables (Since they are all based on the US Navy and NOAA tables) identify 130 feet as the limit of "no-decompression" diving. Any dive deeper than 130 feet would require planned decompression stops (not to be confused with the 3-minute safety stop) to allow nitrogen to disperse.

So, with nothing more than an open water certification, a diver has received the training and information RSTC considers minimally necessary to dive to 130 feet. The day after receiving an Open Water certification, a diver and their buddy could in fact go to a dive shop, obtain air fills and dive to 130 feet. No one is under an obligation at that point to dissuade them from this. They are "autonomous".

That being said, a dive operator, leading escorted dives, or renting equipment is always free to set any more stringent requirements. For example I've seen operators that require advanced certification for certain dives, or Deep or Wreck training for particular dives, etc. It's certainly within the realm of an operators discretion to limit divers to a depth of 60 feet unless they possess advanced training. But it is NOT a restriction placed upon Open Water Divers by any training agency.

Here are the RSTC Standards:

Open water certification qualifies a certified diver to procure air, equipment, and other services and engage in recreational open water diving without supervision. It is the intent of this standard that certified open water divers shall have received training in the fundamentals of

recreational diving from an instructor (see definition). A certified open water diver is qualified to apply the knowledge and skills outlined in this standard to plan, conduct, and log open-water, no-required decompression dives when properly equipped, and accompanied by another certified diver.

Again, this standard allows an Open Water Diver to dive to the limits of no-decompression diving. Our recommendations to students to observe the 60 foot limit until they obtain Deep Diving training, and the 100 foot limit as the recreational diving limit; are only that - recommendations.

Finally, as mentioned above, there is the "Scuba Diver" rating, which does have a maximum depth of 40 feet, and requires diving with a Dive Pro. The Scuba Diver Course is roughly half the Open Water Diver Course, and thus does not result in certification as an "autonomous diver". Additionally, Junior Open Water divers, ages 13 and 14 are limited to 60 feet of depth, and those younger to 40 feet of depth; with other restrictions regarding either dive pros or parents diving with them.

I want to make clear, I absolutely DO NOT advocate inexperienced divers diving to great depths until they've gained the knowledge and experience to do so comfortably; but there is no "rule" preventing it.

Hopefully this helps a little.

Harris

Denver, CO

thank you for saying so clearly what I was trying to say . . .

and I'll add a historical footnote

looking back again to my first class a LONG time ago, we were taught the 120 rule

{for a non rep' dive}

depth plus down time shall not exceed 120

100 feet and 20 minutes ..... OK

60 feet and 60 minutes ..... OK

130 ... outside the rules . . .

I'm still trying to get comfortable with computer diving . . . in the early days they were guessing and I stuck to the tables

I'm DAMN sure we've convinced OP that we are bunch of arguing turds and he's wondering WHY he came here to ask . . . . .

OP ..... to go BACK to the beginning. IME as a diver since the 70's .... do a shore dive at SUNSET HOUSE or EDEN ROCK ..... there are NO shore dive options in Coz' that compare . . . . depth will not exceed 60 and you can hire a guide

I'm DAMN sure we've convinced OP that we are bunch of arguing turds and he's wondering WHY he came here to ask . . . . .

 

 

OP ..... to go BACK to the beginning. IME as a diver since the 70's .... do a shore dive at SUNSET HOUSE or EDEN ROCK ..... there are NO shore dive options in Coz' that are close . . . .

Capt,

I suspect we've given the OP a perfect example of "I'm sorry I asked".

Dear OP, early in my diving career I dove at Cozumel. It's spectacular, and you'll be boat diving with a Dive Master. Pay attention to the briefing, and you'll have a fantastic dive.

Shore diving is what even the people who've lived on Grand Cayman say is the best diving there.

Harris

Denver, CO

The reason everyone's getting wrapped around the axle is that the OP mentions 40 feet, and 40 feet is the depth limit for the Scuba Diver certification level. Scuba Diver is a subset of PADI Open Water requiring less instruction and fewer training dives.

100 vs. 130 feet isn't really pertinent.

getting wrapped around the axle

 

I like THAT! :) With regard to Sunset House and Cozumel, we dove both a couple of weeks ago as we have on many past cruises and land vacations; Sunset is a very good shore dive and Coz is a very good boat dive--Dive House though was "encouraging" a depth limit for Open Water divers of 60 ft as so many other ops do both in Florida and elsewhere...........

Thanks for the SSI Instructor/recreational dive council perspective!

wrapped around what?

I recommend scuba with Alison in cozumel. She is amazing with beginners.

It is also NOT necessary to dive deep if you don't want to. You can stay on top of the walls instead if over the sides or go to shallower sites. Communicate with the op you book with your expectations.

Private DMs are also fairly cheap in coz.

To the OP:

You can also request and pay for a private DM to escort you on the dives. I have found the cost for the DM to be very reasonable when inquiring for DS.

Enjoy and stay comfortable!