The Business of Cunard: a new President for North America and adjusting course?

That's a coincidence, bob, since just tonight at dinner, I was bemoaning the fact that the Staten Island Ferry hasn't carried passenger cars for years. At least I had the chance to experience a few times before it was discontinued, but how nice it would be if was possible to do again.

 

Those were the days.;)

 

The Long Island - Connecticut ferries (both Port Jefferson-Bridgeport, and Orient Point-New London), are doing a booming business carrying cars, trucks, and buses across Long Island Sound......

In actuality, Cunard does not exist as a corporate identity. That company ceased to exist when they closed their offices in Miami and moved their U.S. Operations to Princess's offices in California. In reality, they are just a marketing "brand name" utilizing Princess/P&O staff and services behind the scenes.

In actuality, Cunard does not exist as a corporate identity. That company ceased to exist when they closed their offices in Miami and moved their U.S. Operations to Princess's offices in California. In reality, they are just a marketing "brand name" utilizing Princess/P&O staff and services behind the scenes.

 

I didn't know that...I thought the Cunard Line ceased be an independent corporate identity in August, 1971 when the Line was purchase by Trafalgar House (and subsequently purchased by Carnival).

Edited December 2, 2014 by Salacia

You are correct that it ceased to be an independent company when taken over by Trafalgar, but it was still a legal corporate entity. Once Carnival closed the Miami office, it no longer existed as a legal corporation.

Sadly this appears to be true. If you look at your carriage contract the legal entity is defined as "Carnival plc, trading as Cunard Line."

Sadly this appears to be true. If you look at your carriage contract the legal entity is defined as "Carnival plc, trading as Cunard Line."

 

Right you are, Underwatr...once again we come back to the all important Passage Contract:

 

"This Passage Contract constitutes the entire understanding and agreement between You and Carnival plc, trading as Cunard Line, the owner and operator of all Cunard Line brand ships (“Carrier”), and supersedes any prior oral, implied, written or other representations or agreements between You and Carrier except that in the event of a direct conflict between a provision of this contract and a provision of the Cruise Industry Passenger Bill of Rights (PBOR) in effect at the time of booking, the PBOR controls..."http://www.cunard.com/legal-information/

 

As to whether this Passage Contract applies to bookings made in Countries other than the USA, I have no idea, nor do I know if this 'contract' would hold up in a Court of Law in the USA if challenged.

 

But you raise a good point in that we should all read our Passage Contract carefully as it appears to undergo frequent revisions.

 

Salacia

Thanks to everybody for contributing to this thread. I've reread all the posts several times and learned a lot from everybody's input. The other day I re-learned an important lesson once again. Pre-prepare replies elsewhere (e.g. Text Editor). I had a long follow up posting all finished but lost it 'cause I had been logged out. woops. Perhaps this is to everyone's advantage as they were saved from reading it.

 

I still want to contribute so here goes again more concisely I hope.

 

Since I began this thread Seabourn has opted for an additional new build, Virgin has announced their new brand and 2 new builds, and just this morning I read that Celebrity has announced 2 new builds.

 

Therefore I still believe that Carnival/Cunard must up their game if they want to stay competitive. I predict they will announce a new ship or ships in the next 12 months. This prediction and $5.00 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. This is supposed to be fun right?

 

On a lighter note and to follow up on an earlier post I can add that in my limited experience as a civil engineer I've never heard of any large scale adjustable suspension bridges.

 

And finally, with respect to itineraries, it seems that if Cunard wants to keep the QM2 busy with it's intended use, additonal transatlantic service to Miami/Fort Lauderdale with stops in Barcelona could be a way to introduce new cruisers and existing bucket-list cruisers from other Lines to the White Star Experience. Afterall, South Florida is still port central to the cruise world, at least for now.

 

Thanks again to all who have contributed. I'll don my chain mail and check in later.

JP

Departed Cunard, not this life, Salacia. I should have chosen my words more carefully!

 

Glad to hear he's still with us, albeit without Cunard:).

 

According to this newly released report "Ex-Cunard boss Peter Shanks has joined Imagine Cruising as development director... " http://www.ttgdigital.com/news/ex-cunard-chief-joins-cruise-agency/4694598.article

Edited December 9, 2014 by Salacia

 

And finally, with respect to itineraries, it seems that if Cunard wants to keep the QM2 busy with it's intended use, additonal transatlantic service to Miami/Fort Lauderdale with stops in Barcelona could be a way to introduce new cruisers and existing bucket-list cruisers from other Lines to the White Star Experience. Afterall, South Florida is still port central to the cruise world, at least for now.

 

/QUOTE]

 

Could you expand on this please. Are you saying Miami / Barcelona / Southampton? Or omitting Southampton?

 

I think most Americans want Southampton (for London) and most Europeans Southampton / New York. Can't see the attraction of a crossing via Spain.

 

David.

Edited December 9, 2014 by balf

I didn't have a specific itinerary in mind. I do see the logic in increasing transatlantic service to Miami and Barcelona because they are very busy cruise ports and dynamic, interesting destinations as well. Most Miami-Barcelona runs seem to be in the 11-14 day range and are basically repo. runs in shoulder seasons, often with stops. Couldn't the QM2 do it faster, say 7-9 days and have it be a desirable cruise in and of itself? It could start or end a run like this in either NYC or Southampton. Maybe Southampton-NY-Miami-Barcelona-Southampton?

 

The idea is to leverage one of Cunard's strengths (the only real transatlantic carrier) to appeal to new and new-to-the-line cruisers.

 

Part of the reason that I brought up this whole idea is that Carnival//WLCL/ Cunard is in the midst of this guerilla, crowd-sourced, marketing effort and obviously needs a few other concepts. I don't know about you but have you tried the whole cruis-a-nality thing? This may appeal to the millenials with smartphones but I think it's evidence of struggle. The video contest (where we vote for ideas!) is at least a contest but again illustrates to me that they are casting about for ideas. Cunard should be a focus for growth. It's WLCL's flagship Luxury line (at least for the <1%'ers)with no line (o-k, three conceptually dated ships) and a dated marketing effort. What to do? To add insult to injury this is one of the fastest growing and most profitable segments of the industry.

 

Thanks David for following up with the question. I think today I'll wear my thick skin.

John

Debating whether or not to weigh in on this, but here's the two-pennies (cents if you must) of a more-than-likely-younger-than-the-average avid cruiser.

 

Firstly, I'll admit my experience of Cunard only reaches back as far as 2005, so I have never experienced Cunard as a non-Carnival entity.

 

I agree 100% that Cunard has an identity crisis. Whether this identity crisis is exacerbated by its shared management with P&O is probably debatable - I'm not sure that Cunard would know its direction even as a completely independent brand of Carnival.

 

Fleet is an interesting issue. I recently completed my fourth cruise on QM2 and I consistently come away with the same feeling of both having enjoyed every second of it yet feeling like a disappointed parent of a lazy child. As wonderful as my experiences of her have been, I always moan about the same problems. I have yet to experience the QV/E but am eager too because, generally, they are well spoken of. My grandparents racked up 63 voyages on QE2, tried Mary once and vowed never again but were won back by QV/E. I would be very interested to see if they feel as unloved as I often find QM2 feels.

 

I can't help but feel that perhaps the investment it would take to keep QM in tip-top condition and really hit the marks it should do would (as previously commented) perhaps preclude me from being able to enjoy her again for a while!

 

As to future ships, it's a tough one to call. I don't believe that anything much smaller than QV will appear. Something akin to Oriana/Aurora perhaps.

However, given current trends within Carnival, I think it's more likely that we'll see some Pinnacle Class ships built for Cunard. From what we've seen so far, the new Koningsdam looks pretty nice, and it would be a logical next-step up from QE.

 

The major issue with direction, I think, is the over reliance that Cunard now has on the 'Queen' branding. I think as it stands there's no future for that to continue into new ships (if nothing else there are just not enough names that work) IF Cunard are to receive new ships, then the question as to whether the QV/E were truly deserving of their names after all. The bank of names available to Cunard is so rich, but whether they would recycle any is another question. It's a shame that Britannia will now be unavailable for quite some time!

 

Before anything is done, Carnival needs to decide just how much they want the Cunard brand to survive. As others have pointed out, competition for the Cunard market is increasing, especially as we come out of the most recent period of financial difficulty. I am skeptical as to how someone can effectively head up one operation while also the top dog of a separate entity...

 

For now, I will hope that some of the more interesting ideas out there come to fruition (for example the talked about/planned revival of a liner service between UK/Australia) and the ideal situation would be for another line to introduce a Transatlantic service once or twice a year that would *force* Cunard to up their game.

 

BUT in conclusion I will mention the biggest issue of them all. I have already said that I always enjoy my time despite all the complaints. I believe that Cunard know full well that enough people will continue to come back because of the positives that ultimately outdo the negatives. I was even foolish enough to say this after the 3rd voyage on the post-cruise feedback (oops!)

I guess nothing will really change until it really has to!

... My grandparents racked up 63 voyages on QE2, tried Mary once and vowed never again but were won back by QV/E. I would be very interested to see if they feel as unloved as I often find QM2 feels. ...

Please encourage your grandparents to post their QE2/QM2 comparisons here, or do so for them.

...

The major issue with direction, I think, is the over reliance that Cunard now has on the 'Queen' branding. I think as it stands there's no future for that to continue into new ships (if nothing else there are just not enough names that work) ...

Nonsense, the last thousand years of English/British history offers plenty of Queen Consort name possibilities including Adelaide, Adeliza, Alexandra, Anne, Berengaria (ok Cunard once had RMS Berengaria, formerly SS Imperator, but never a Queen Berengaria), Caroline, Catherine, Charlotte, Edith, Eleanor, Emma, Henrietta, Isabella, Jane, Joan, Margaret, Matilda, and Philippa. And certainly "Queen" branding is sexier than "of the Seas" branding.

Nonsense, the last thousand years of English/British history offers plenty of Queen Consort name possibilities including Adelaide, Adeliza, Alexandra, Anne, Berengaria (ok Cunard once had RMS Berengaria, formerly SS Imperator, but never a Queen Berengaria), Caroline, Catherine, Charlotte, Edith, Eleanor, Emma, Henrietta, Isabella, Jane, Joan, Margaret, Matilda, and Philippa. And certainly "Queen" branding is sexier than "of the Seas" branding.

 

Ok, if you say so.

I think it would be fair to say that the concept of Royalty might not be perpetuated (with all due respect to the Queen of England, wonderful woman that she is!).

Just my opinion, but branding is next to meaningless: it's the product that counts. The proof is in the pudding.:) -S

Does anyone know for sure that QM2 is actually making a profit?

 

She paid for herself in the first 5 years.

Nonsense, the last thousand years of English/British history offers plenty of Queen Consort name possibilities including Adelaide, Adeliza, Alexandra, Anne, Berengaria (ok Cunard once had RMS Berengaria, formerly SS Imperator, but never a Queen Berengaria), Caroline, Catherine, Charlotte, Edith, Eleanor, Emma, Henrietta, Isabella, Jane, Joan, Margaret, Matilda, and Philippa. And certainly "Queen" branding is sexier than "of the Seas" branding.

 

My first Cunard experience was on the Cunard Countess...

 

 

 

Interesting talk about the popularity of World Cruises. In 2009 we sailed with Cunard Queen Victoria Southampton to Fort Lauderdale and Queen Mary 2 Fort Lauderdale to Sydney. 56 days total.

 

Earlier this year we planned to circumnavigate Australia on Queen Mary 2 in February/March. I purchased our own air tickets and planned to book the staterooms nearer the time.

 

Sailed a trans-Atlantic in the preceding November and guess what? All balcony staterooms sold out.

 

We changed our game plan and followed he to every Aussie port...

 

http://solentrichardscruiseblog.com/2014/03/25/queen-mary-2-circumnavigates-australia-our-adventure/

 

 

 

 

 

Carnival under one roof sweepstake

For USA and Canadian residents only

http://www.cruiseanality.com/

Edited December 16, 2014 by Pennbank

Carnival under one roof sweepstake

For USA and Canadian residents only

http://www.cruiseanality.com/

 

 

Why? :p

Why? :p

 

I forgot to mention the prize is a cruise a year for life !

 

http://www.carnivalmarketingchallenge.com/

 

Obviously do not wish people other than USA and Canada to enter !

Edited December 16, 2014 by Pennbank

I forgot to mention the prize is a cruise a year for life !

 

http://www.carnivalmarketingchallenge.com/

 

Obviously do not wish people other than USA and Canada to enter !

 

Too bad Cunard isn't included in the sweepstake. The prize is limited to cruises on Carnival, Princess, and HAL.

I forgot to mention the prize is a cruise a year for life !

 

http://www.carnivalmarketingchallenge.com/

 

Obviously do not wish people other than USA and Canada to enter !

 

 

Thanks ... I am preparing my claws to move out :D

Too bad Cunard isn't included in the sweepstake. The prize is limited to cruises on Carnival, Princess, and HAL.

 

It made me smile.

 

Even adding wild answers the results appear the same.

Getting back on track though and on the question of identity by type of ship.

 

I actually believe Carnival/Cunard have it just about right with their mix. Take for instance I would always proclaim that Queen Mary 2 is my favourite ship of all time.

 

Having said that I have never had a bad time on Queen Elizabeth or Queen Victoria. Indeed, if I was sailing just for the 'Grills' experience then QV and QE are better equipped for that experience.

 

They also offer a more 'cruise' orientated experience while maintaining the ethos of style and dress code.

 

Yep, I reckon they have it just about right.

Solent Richard, two questions if you don't mind my asking:

 

1). I've noted that several of your posts, two people are pictured holding a banner proclaiming "We are Cunard". Is this an official statement sanctioned by the Cunard Line using their logo for promotional purposes?

 

2). On your photos posted, you include a copyright. And yet your signature includes a painting by a contemporary - sans any credit whatsoever. Would you care to include the painter's name and the title of the painting?

 

Oh, and regarding your photos, you might want to take a look at "Use of Content"/Cruise Critic FAQ.

 

I'm not Cunard, but I am a frequent passenger.

 

Regards,

Salacia

Edited December 18, 2014 by Salacia