handicapped prejudice on cunard?

I have traveled several times on the QM2 with my scooter which fits fine thru the cabin entrance and is unobstrusive in the room. I walk with 2 canes but can not walk the length of the ship, so I need the scooter to get to certain venues. Other than that, I do not need an accessible cabin (which essentially has a wheelchair shower which I dont need.)

I was shocked to learn that ANY scooter must have a handicapped room. So when I tried to book a cruise which is a year from now, I was only offerred 2 cabin selections I was interested in. How disappointing that Cunard is severely limiting the number of ambulatory challenged people a place on their ship. As I am retiring soon I was hoping for several future cruises, but will probably have to plan a different line.:mad:

I hope that you will make your case to Cunard in writing and in great detail. Respond to any rejection letter you may receive by repeating your case to the next management level above that of the rejector. Cunard is wrong on this one and perhaps your efforts will encourage a change. Good luck.

There was a lot of discussion on this topic when P&O and Cunard announced their new policy for people who use scooters. Here's a link to that thread.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1592553&highlight=scooter+accessible

It does make travel more difficult for you because you're limited in cabin selection. And since the accessible cabins tend to book up quickly, you can't wait and see if there will be price reductions.

I don't know if anyone has challenged the policy.

There was a lot of discussion on this topic when P&O and Cunard announced their new policy for people who use scooters. Here's a link to that thread.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1592553&highlight=scooter+accessible

 

It does make travel more difficult for you because you're limited in cabin selection. And since the accessible cabins tend to book up quickly, you can't wait and see if there will be price reductions.

 

I don't know if anyone has challenged the policy.

I had thought that policy only applied to cruises both beginning and ending in European Union ports, where new safety regulations (which I believe have been unsuccessfully challenged in court) all but compel ships to require anyone with a scooter or non-collapsible wheelchair to book an accessible cabin.

But if the OP is booking the Canada/New England cruise they have discussed in prior posts they should definitely take this further. I am fairly sure that US laws would prohibit denial of boarding to a handicapped individual merely for not booking an accessible cabin--or even for not advising the cruiseline of their situation in advance, despite what the contract of carriage may say.

I have traveled several times on the QM2 with my scooter which fits fine thru the cabin entrance and is unobstrusive in the room. I walk with 2 canes but can not walk the length of the ship, so I need the scooter to get to certain venues. Other than that, I do not need an accessible cabin (which essentially has a wheelchair shower which I dont need.)

I was shocked to learn that ANY scooter must have a handicapped room. So when I tried to book a cruise which is a year from now, I was only offerred 2 cabin selections I was interested in. How disappointing that Cunard is severely limiting the number of ambulatory challenged people a place on their ship. As I am retiring soon I was hoping for several future cruises, but will probably have to plan a different line.:mad:

nuekruizer, please consider that it is a matter of safety. Limiting the number of passengers with ambulatory issues means that the crew has a better chance of assisting those passengers in need of assistance in the event of an emergency. My suggestion is that in your search for a more accommodating cruise line, you consider more than where a scoter is parked.

Best wishes,

Salacia

OP, is it possible the voyage you were interested in is very popular, hence the accessible cabins are now down to two? This website has a decent overview of accessible cabin availability by line/ship, and apparently, QM2 has 31 accessible cabins. http://www.specialneedsatsea.com/about-us/cruise-lines/cunard-line/ A list of those cabins appears here: http://www.cruise.co.uk/images/Cruise//cruise_gallery/1/CU_Accessible_Cabin_List_0.pdf (hopefully, it's current!).

I realize your beef is with the requirement that you book an accessible cabin; but as Salacia said, it's all a matter of safety and regulations. Cunard's explanation of the cabin design required to accommodate scooters is here: http://www.cunard.com/frequent-questions/

As you said you are a year out, I think it is curious that 29/31 are booked! I would be a pest and ask my travel agent to work through the list of accessible cabins with Cunard to see what is really booked vs. available. Maybe it's possible the first inquiry wasn't met with a sufficiently researched response! It would probably be most productive if you highlighted the cabins on the list that appeal to you, so those are the first checked. And if, in the end, you are confident the "only two left" response is accurate, maybe there is a waitlist?

I truly hope you get a desirable cabin on the voyage you are interested in!

Sent from my iPad using Cruise Critic Forums mobile app

I can see both sides of the argument, and can appreciate where both sides are coming from.

The customer wants the freedom to book and enjoy a cruise like everyone else and that is very valid and they should not be, as some will see it, punished for a disability which is not of their making and I think any sane individual would see that it would be unfair, and unlawful to try and limit someones ability to do something through spite and just to discriminate.

I also see the cruise lines side, and I do remember my two journeys on the QM2 prior to the policy being introduced, that there were indeed a few issues with mobility equipment being left outside cabins and causing difficulties for other people in corridors and other areas. As others have said, in regard to safety concerns, I would tend to side with the cruise line, especially if you consider the obstacles that can be caused during an evacuation, especially in low or no light, by additional items in corridors and gang ways.

I do believe that, a lot of legislation and law that is brought in to assist less abled travellers often just sets things up to fail. In my industry, we have law when carrying customers too and from the US, that we must, make every effort to accommodate any customers wheelchair onboard the aircraft, within the cabin, so as to have it available once landed. However, aircraft are not designed for this and on most occasions, we can accept 1, sometimes 2 at a push into the cabin, mainly taking up storage that would be used for other items for other customers. So, whilst yes, we will make every effort to do things, when you have 5/6/7 assistance customers onboard who all want their own mobility equipment brought into the cabin, who do we "discriminate" against out of all the people who, technically, under law, can take us to court for discriminating against them.

It is a very difficult and grey area in many ways.

For the OP, I hope you manage to get it sorted out.

T5

:)

nuekruizer, please consider that it is a matter of safety. Limiting the number of passengers with ambulatory issues means that the crew has a better chance of assisting those passengers in need of assistance in the event of an emergency. My suggestion is that in your search for a more accommodating cruise line, you consider more than where a scoter is parked.

Indeed, passengers with serious mobility disadvantage may not need a special cabin but at least special attendance and assistance. Usually the crew assigned to the area of these special cabins/"staterooms" has such a qualification.

Just a personal anecdote: Last year in the Princess Grill hall a scooter was parked outside a stateroom. After over two hours it was still there, and I notified the Purser's desk. Within 10 minutes it was gone.

At dinner, it turned out that the cabin occupants were my table mates.:eek: Now this was a standard PG suite, not an adapted one, as the scooter user could walk short distances. (The couple didn't know I had "ratted" on them.) They went on to complain that leaving it in the hall was never a problem on QE2 and it was hard to move about their stateroom with the scooter inside.

Now imagine the complaints when the occupant of any standard stateroom is told that they cannot leave their scooter in the hall or out near the elevator. As the US population ages and "baby boomers" reach a point in life where we need mobility assistance, this problem can only get worse for cruise lines.

I asked if I could then just bring a folding walker which takes up no room. They said I still need a handicapped room, so the scooter problems are non existant.!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

Wheelchair user here, I also walk short distances with elbow crutches. QM2 is too big so we've stuck with QE and QV and our next voyage is in November. Never needed a HC cabin (yet) and I'm fortunate enough to be able to book a suite, where the doors are wider and my wheelchair sails straight through. So, that sets the scene of where I'm coming from.

Firstly, Cunard and P&O's policy is an over the top response to corridors being blocked by scooters, some of them big enough to climb up a small mountain. In the past they have caused me much frustration because I can't get a chair past them. It's the same with baggage carts and thoughtlessly discarded room service trays as well, by the way.

Secondly, ignore Salacia's comments about safety and numbers at an evacuation - that's just tosh. It's all just about having a room with doors wide enough for a monster truck sized scooter to fit through. They have the same restrictions on wheelchairs, insisting on a folding chair, even though my bespoke rigid chair would fit through a door with the wheels removed.

Thirdly, don't despair........ if you look at the fine print there is a small number of specified (small) scooters that they will let you use. Contact Cunard disabled services for info. You may have the correct model.

Finally - just try another line. I recommend Celebrity, who have a much more enlightened policy, comparable food and nice open spaces, and to my eye, they have slightly wider corridors on the Solstice class ships which are much easier to navigate!

If you need proper info, post on the disabled part of the forum. There are too many armchair experts on the individual lines' forums.

.

 

....Secondly, ignore Salacia's comments about safety and numbers at an evacuation - that's just tosh...

 

.

Thanks Chucky; it's always interesting when the comment is "to ignore"

Safety at sea - just tosh? Well good luck to you, your fellow passengers and crew members.

Salacia

Thanks for all your comments. As I still love QM2, I relented and booked an accessible Princess Grill cabin ( one of two) for a small fortune. I hope it is worth the price! They were also firm on NO upgrades for handicapped passengers. anybody have pictures of the INSIDE of these cabins??

Here's a link to Cunard's QM2 PG page: Queen Mary 2 Princess Grill Suites

Having sailed almost exclusively in PG I think you will have much more attentive service.

Thanks for all your comments. As I still love QM2, I relented and booked an accessible Princess Grill cabin ( one of two) for a small fortune. I hope it is worth the price! They were also firm on NO upgrades for handicapped passengers. anybody have pictures of the INSIDE of these cabins??

I can't understand a comment of no upgrades for HC passengers. It would violate discrimination laws in just about developed country.

Also, it certainly isn't the case in practice. Last time out, we booked a Q7 (now Q6) guarantee, were allocated a Q4 and then a few weeks before sailing upgraded to Q1. Perversely, we had to open both doors of the Q1 to get my wheelchair through.

The upgrade fairy moves in mysterious ways, but if they think you MUST have a HC cabin, for example to get a level access shower instead of just to fit in with a crazy policy, then you won't be in the running for a leg up to QG.

Enjoy the PG, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

.

I can't understand a comment of no upgrades for HC passengers. It would violate discrimination laws in just about developed country.

 

Also, it certainly isn't the case in practice. Last time out, we booked a Q7 (now Q6) guarantee, were allocated a Q4 and then a few weeks before sailing upgraded to Q1. Perversely, we had to open both doors of the Q1 to get my wheelchair through.

 

The upgrade fairy moves in mysterious ways, but if they think you MUST have a HC cabin, for example to get a level access shower instead of just to fit in with a crazy policy, then you won't be in the running for a leg up to QG.

 

Enjoy the PG, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

 

.

I suspect the no upgrade thing is a way to avoid errors. If upgrades are random, then it's possible the Upgrade Fairy's computer could upgrade someone with a HC cabin to one that isn't HC. I recall a thread on the HAL board a year or two ago where this happened to a passenger, It was just a few days before the cruise, and they had to scramble to contact HAL and get the upgrade reversed because they really needed that HC cabin and couldn't manage in the "better" cabin.

Seeing as I told them I do not really need an accessible cabin (since my tiny scooter fits thru all the cabin doors), why not an upgrade if ship is overbooked? At any rate, I am sure I will be thrilled with the PG as well as any such QG upgrade. Thanks everyone for your comments.

Here's a link to Cunard's QM2 PG page: Queen Mary 2 Princess Grill Suites

 

Having sailed almost exclusively in PG I think you will have much more attentive service.

Many people who can afford QG choose to stay in a "rower" cabin. I believe the OP did not ask about the QG or PG.

M

Seeing as I told them I do not really need an accessible cabin (since my tiny scooter fits thru all the cabin doors), why not an upgrade if ship is overbooked? At any rate, I am sure I will be thrilled with the PG as well as any such QG upgrade. Thanks everyone for your comments.

That doesn't matter. It does sound as if you'd be able to manage in any cabin, but they don't take into account individual situations. The rule is the rule is the rule...

Many people who can afford QG choose to stay in a "rower" cabin. I believe the OP did not ask about the QG or PG.

 

M

Actually she did......post #13

Thanks Chucky; it's always interesting when the comment is "to ignore"

 

Safety at sea - just tosh? Well good luck to you, your fellow passengers and crew members.

 

Salacia

It's not just tosh, in the UK it would be illegal tosh.

My mother and I are both sailing on QM2 on 28-October to Northampton. We both use mobility scooters. Ours are the small, collapsible Luggie scooters. At first they said we would have to book accessible cabins. I talked further and said these are smaller, collapsible, fit into the cabin easily and we can and do handle them ourselves. There was some discussion, and the final ruling was we could keep our original booking in one of the Penthouses with our scooters. I asked why the change of mind? I was told because the scooter will fit through the door and not be parked outside, we can handle it, and it's collapsible. Also, that for the most part, we are mobile. The thing they kept emphasizing was that our scooters can go through doorways with no problem, and that we can handle them ourselves, completely. We won't need Cunard staff to help us.

I don't know if this will help. I will say I love my Luggie scooter for travel. We both have the standard size mobility scooter at home as well. Having taken those on a Royal Caribbean cruise, the Luggie is much more convenient.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

My mother and I are both sailing on QM2 on 28-October to Northampton. We both use mobility scooters. Ours are the small, collapsible Luggie scooters. At first they said we would have to book accessible cabins. I talked further and said these are smaller, collapsible, fit into the cabin easily and we can and do handle them ourselves. There was some discussion, and the final ruling was we could keep our original booking in one of the Penthouses with our scooters. I asked why the change of mind? I was told because the scooter will fit through the door and not be parked outside, we can handle it, and it's collapsible. Also, that for the most part, we are mobile. The thing they kept emphasizing was that our scooters can go through doorways with no problem, and that we can handle them ourselves, completely. We won't need Cunard staff to help us.

 

I don't know if this will help. I will say I love my Luggie scooter for travel. We both have the standard size mobility scooter at home as well. Having taken those on a Royal Caribbean cruise, the Luggie is much more convenient.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I guess that you're expecting an inordinately high tide that day. Mostly the ship will dock at Southampton. :)

I have traveled several times on the QM2 with my scooter which fits fine thru the cabin entrance and is unobstrusive in the room. I walk with 2 canes but can not walk the length of the ship, so I need the scooter to get to certain venues. Other than that, I do not need an accessible cabin (which essentially has a wheelchair shower which I dont need.)

I was shocked to learn that ANY scooter must have a handicapped room. So when I tried to book a cruise which is a year from now, I was only offerred 2 cabin selections I was interested in. How disappointing that Cunard is severely limiting the number of ambulatory challenged people a place on their ship. As I am retiring soon I was hoping for several future cruises, but will probably have to plan a different line.:mad:

I am sure the correct answer is HEALTH AND SAFETY and the chance of being SUED.:confused:

I guess that you're expecting an inordinately high tide that day. Mostly the ship will dock at Southampton. :)

I haven't stopped laughing since I read this😀😀

Sent from my iPad using Forums