mirrorless - sony alpha series others

hello - i am very new at this camera thing - had the basic point and shoots. i am going to alaska and want to upgrade. i am concerned about learning curve. we are just starting search and sort of looked a nikon p6000. i know i am being a girl here but they are so much bigger. i then saw a display for the alpha series. i would normally not want to go with a sony but they are so compact and it seems from comments easy to use. does anyone have thoughts on this segment of the market place and recommendations. or is this not a good road to be going down. thank you

With few exceptions, every camera is equally easy/hard to use -- They all have very very similar "auto" functions. So whether you stick to auto on a $200 point and shoot, or auto on a $3,000 full frame dSLR, they will be equally "easy."

Sony Alpha mirrorless are essentially dSLRs in a different form factor. Technically, they aren't dSLRs as they lack a reflex mirror (DSLR = Digital Single Lens Reflex). But they use the same sensors you find in dSLRs. They use interchangeable lenses, just like a dSLR. And you can choose to shoot in "auto" or "manual" just like a dSLR.

Some mirrorless cameras -- most notably the Samsung NX1 -- really look almost identical to dSLRs. Others, like the Sony A6000 may look more like a P&S, but that's just the outside appearance.

It is important to understand the role of sensor size -- sensor size directly correlates with image quality in most circumstances. And generally speaking, bigger sensors also make the cameras and lenses bigger. Mirrorless cameras manage to squeeze down the size a little bit.

So your typical P&S -- Like the Nikon P6000 --- has a tiny sensor. (Though even cheaper P&S have even smaller teeny tiny sensors)

Then you have the "small" sensor... 1".. found in the Sony RX100, Canon G7x, and in mirrorless -- in the Nikon "1" system. So so image quality, in a very compact body/lens combination.

Next size up, you have the micro 4:3 design -- This is used in Olympus and Panasonic mirrorless cameras. Good image quality, medium size.

Then, most consumer dSLRs, use what is called "APS-C" sensor size. This is what you find in almost all dSLRs that are under $1500. This is also the sensor size found in most Fuji and Samsung mirrorless, as well as some Sony mirrorless (The A6000, A5100).

Finally, you have "full frame" -- expensive dSLRs. The only mirrorless that use full frame are the Sony A7 series. These cameras tend to be pretty large, though the Sony A7 keeps the size down. But the lenses are also pretty large as well.

The Sony A6000 has gotten some great reviews and feedback. By being APS-C instead of full frame, and mirrorless instead of dSLR, the camera and lenses are fairly small. The image quality is very very good. It is very fast focusing.

The downside --- They don't really have the lenses for LONG telephoto. You can use lenses that will give more zoom than the P6000, but you won't approach what you can get with superzoom P&S cameras. (But you are getting much much better image quality).

To get the most out of the camera, you need to commit to buying multiple lenses (at least 2-3 lenses total), and switching lenses as necessary. (not hard at all, but intimidates some people). And to truly get the most out of ANY camera, you need to get out of fully automatic mode, learn manual exposure, learn rules of composition, understand lighting, etc.

As a long-time photographer and a Sony A6000 owner, I can say that the A6000 is as easy or as hard to use as you want it to be. By that I mean that with the two main kit lenses (16-50 and 55-210 zooms) and the camera set on Auto, it is essentially a really, really high quality point and shoot that will give you excellent results with little needed from you in the way of settings. If you want to go deeper into the functions, it has a huge array of advanced automatic modes and of course, full manual control available. Havoc was right that there isn't currently any really long zooms for it beyond the new 24-240 travel zoom but unless you are planning on a trip to Alaska to shoot wildlife, you will seldom, if ever, need more than the range of the longer kit zoom. (If you do, you can rent a Sony 70-400 and Alpha to E-mount adapter and the A6000 will track and focus like a semi-pro DSLR at 11 frames per second).

I still own my A77 DSLR and lenses for it but for day to day shooting and especially while travelling, the A6000, NEX-7 and a small bag of small lenses has become my go-to kit.

Here's a link to our last all-NEX/A6000 cruise: http://galleries.pptphoto.com/allure

Link to a review I did when I got my A6000: http://www.pptphoto.com/articles/a6000.html

Dave

why would you not want to go with a sony? they make many of the sensors in Nikons cameras.

As a long-time photographer and a Sony A6000 owner, I can say that the A6000 is as easy or as hard to use as you want it to be. By that I mean that with the two main kit lenses (16-50 and 55-210 zooms) and the camera set on Auto, it is essentially a really, really high quality point and shoot that will give you excellent results with little needed from you in the way of settings. If you want to go deeper into the functions, it has a huge array of advanced automatic modes and of course, full manual control available. Havoc was right that there isn't currently any really long zooms for it beyond the new 24-240 travel zoom but unless you are planning on a trip to Alaska to shoot wildlife, you will seldom, if ever, need more than the range of the longer kit zoom. (If you do, you can rent a Sony 70-400 and Alpha to E-mount adapter and the A6000 will track and focus like a semi-pro DSLR at 11 frames per second).

 

I still own my A77 DSLR and lenses for it but for day to day shooting and especially while travelling, the A6000, NEX-7 and a small bag of small lenses has become my go-to kit.

 

 

Here's a link to our last all-NEX/A6000 cruise: http://galleries.pptphoto.com/allure

 

Link to a review I did when I got my A6000: http://www.pptphoto.com/articles/a6000.html

 

 

Dave

Great album. Yes, I only mentioned the lack of long telephotos, because the OP is specifically going to Alaska. I don't even really own any long lenses, though I am thinking of getting a 300mm and teleconverter, primarily with my Alaska cruise in mind. (Yes.. I can just rent.. but I do kinda want to use ti beyond just the cruise).

If you want great pictures of Alaska eagles, you will want a long telephoto. Doing a lot of wildlife, you want a long telephoto. But for scenic pictures, people pictures, ship pictures... the A6000 with 55-210 will be just fine.

ok so sounds like with mirrorless sacrificing zoom - any idea the zoom on these?

ok so sounds like with mirrorless sacrificing zoom - any idea the zoom on these?

The 55-210 provides equivalent reach of 315mm. The 16-50 is the equivalent of 24-75. So if you pair them together, in p&s terms, you are looking at 13x.

The 55-210 provides equivalent reach of 315mm. The 16-50 is the equivalent of 24-75. So if you pair them together, in p&s terms, you are looking at 13x.

If you can track down a DH1758 telextender it fits on the 55-210 with a step-up ring and gets you to about 500mm. Looks kind of wacky with the long skinny lens on the camera though. :)

That Tele extender sounds cool, do you have one or does anyone used one? Tried to find one online and they are rare these days. if you spend alittle more won't a sony adapter and 70-300 lens be better?

I'll be bold enough to state that I was the 'creator' of the e-mount camera and teleextender trick...I happened to have the old DH1758 teleextender in my closet not being used from its days with my old superzoom camera, and when I picked up the 55-210mm lens for my NEX-5N years ago, I noticed the 49mm filter threads were smaller than the 58mm threads of the teleextender - so I decided to try mating the two together and found the results were surprisingly good. So I started posting results on one of the big camera forums and it really caught on - those teleextenders started getting picked up all over the place and prices soared (you could find them for $60 on eBay when I first tried it, and now they're well over $150 and often in the $200+ range). Remember that the Sony DH1758 is not the only teleextender that works though - there were other brands of teleextender, and one in particular seems to work as well as the Sony DH1758 - that's the Olympus TCon 1.7x. So you can consider that model as well - price is in the same ballpark, but they are more readily available.

The thing with the mirrorless bodies is that there aren't any long lenses available in e-mount - currently the 24-240mm is the biggest, and then the 55-210mm below it. As you mention, you can try the adapter + Alpha mount route - and have many more long lenses available to you -indeed that's a viable option, even up to some very long lenses like the 70-400mm Sony, or Tamron 150-600mm, both available in Alpha mount. Of course, those lenses are huge and heavy, and there's no stabilization in the lens (Alpha camera bodies have stabilization built in, so when you use the adapters to mount lenses on E-mount cameras, you don't get stabilization). And another factor is that the A6000 has an extraordinary focus system with brilliant tracking ability - if you use one of the Alpha A-mount adapters, you aren't using that focus system at all - instead, you use an older A-mount focus system with far fewer points. It's still fast and effective for general shooting, but won't track like the A6000's native system. And weight alone is a factor - the 55-210mm plus DH1758 combo with camera included weighs in around 2.9Lbs total. The A6000 plus LA-EA4 adapter plus any Alpha lens capable of reaching 500mm or more optically will weigh in around 5-6Lbs at least.

And remember another factor - the DH1758 adapter has 58mm threading, and a smaller glass opening - so the only lenses that will work well with it are lenses with diameters LESS than 58mm...if the end-glass of the lens is too big, you'll suffer from severe corner softness and vignetting (dark corners) with the adapter - so lenses like a 70-300mm A-mount lens can't work with those teleextenders.

Probably 85% of the photos in this gallery below were taken with the 55-210mm lens and DH1758 attached - some landscape shots weren't, but almost all bird and wildlife shots were:

http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg/sel55210&page=all

The camera and lens data are under each photo, and I've noted if the DH1758 was used. The pair can work very well when you need reach - which I often do since I shoot a lot of wildlife and birds.

Here's a shot of the 55-210mm lens and DH1758 extender attached to my NEX-5N camera (I have no photos of it on my A6000, but this gives you the idea of size and appearance):

Hope that helps!

hello - i am very new at this camera thing - had the basic point and shoots. i am going to alaska and want to upgrade. i am concerned about learning curve. we are just starting search and sort of looked a nikon p6000. i know i am being a girl here but they are so much bigger. i then saw a display for the alpha series. i would normally not want to go with a sony but they are so compact and it seems from comments easy to use. does anyone have thoughts on this segment of the market place and recommendations. or is this not a good road to be going down. thank you

All cameras regardless of how complicated they can eventually become have what is essentially a "idiot" mode. This is not to be meant to suggest anything about you but it basically means that you press the button and the computer in the camera does the rest and most of the time you end up with a pretty properly exposed picture. You are the real brains of the camera and it is up to you to properly compose your pictures.

With specific regard to the Sony cameras, I have a A6000 which I am using in place of my dSLR. It is small enough that I can drop the camera with its kit lens in one pocket of my jacket and my telephoto in another pockets. It has a ELV that is electronic that I like. It has an extremely smart "idiot" mode feature and as you get good with the thing, it also has a lot of very advanced features. A negative with regard to the A6000 for Alaska wildlife is that unless you spend a lot of money, there is only a limited selection of long telephotos for the thing. A positive for places like AK is that you can shoot at 12 frames per second and the object that you are photographing stays in focus which is very handing if you are shooting pictures of animals such as whales.

If you do buy it, come back to use as we can recommend some sources of information on the camera. The manufacturer manual stinks and once you get past the smart "idiot" mode, it can be complicated to use.

Hope that this helps.

DON

So for the teleextender do you use a stepup ring or do you screw it straight on?

Yes, needs Step Up Ring 49mm-58mm.

Yes - step-up ring from the 49mm to 58mm is needed. As you can tell in the shot, the ring is quite minimally thin and the diameter of the teleextender matches the diameter of the lens very nicely, which makes it nice for when you're carrying the camera - you just carry by the lens rather than the body.

As a long-time photographer and a Sony A6000 owner, I can say that the A6000 is as easy or as hard to use as you want it to be. By that I mean that with the two main kit lenses (16-50 and 55-210 zooms) and the camera set on Auto, it is essentially a really, really high quality point and shoot that will give you excellent results with little needed from you in the way of settings.

 

 

Dave

To be more accurate, you should use the Intelligent Auto mode of the A6000 to get the best "idiot" mode pictures. This mode sets up camera features better than the Program mode option.

Check out this video - http://www.garyfong.com/tutorials/sonys-intelligent-auto-modes

DON

To be more accurate, you should use the Intelligent Auto mode of the A6000 to get the best "idiot" mode pictures. This mode sets up camera features better than the Program mode option.

 

Check out this video - http://www.garyfong.com/tutorials/sonys-intelligent-auto-modes

 

DON

I did actually say "Auto" not "P"...my typing skills lead me to abbreviate and truncate whenever possible! :)

On the subhect of teleconverters, the Minolta ACT-100 accessory 1.5X TC for the KM A2 digicam has a 49mm thread the screws directly onto the 55-210. It has a large front optic and the quality is excellent. I see them as moderately available for about $75 used and $150 new on Amazon (third-party).

I have one and tried it out bud havent really put it through it's paces. I remeber it being excellent on my A2 with little loss of image quality.

Dave

I just got the Sony A6000, and bought the DH1758 telextender for the 55-210mm lens. Have t received the DH1758 yet, but I am really loving this camera so far!

You guys, especially you Dave, helped make my final decision for this over other mirrorless cameras, as my first step up from point and shoot. Thanks so much for all the info shared here and at dp.

My question, will I need a lens hood for the DH1758? Or some other kind of glare protection? I'm brand new to this, if the question sounds ignorant. [emoji4]. I really am ignorant ... for now.

Love this forum! You guys are friendly and don't mind novice questions. I really appreciate it.

Where did you find the DH1758 and if you don't mind the price? I have seen them for $200, don't really want to pay that much

I got mine on EBay for $175 with free shipping, new. A bit more than I wanted to spend, but we are going to AK next year, and I wanted the added range for the cruise. If you have/set up an EBay account, you can put a watch on items, and eventually can get lucky. Just put a maximum on your bidding, and show up late (last day or two). Or do the 'make an offer' if the seller allows it.

To add, I find that I get the best eBay prices from the occasional vendor who doesn't research the current value of an item on eBay. I made an offer and it was accepted. The bidding is fierce on these from the vendors who have lots of items for sale. That's where setting up a search can really help. [emoji4]

Generally you don't need any hood on the extenders. The DH1758 does have a lip hood built in - probably comes out about 3/4 inch or so - it's not going to make flare non existent, but shades the curvature of the end glass enough for most straight-on shooting.

Generally you don't need any hood on the extenders. The DH1758 does have a lip hood built in - probably comes out about 3/4 inch or so - it's not going to make flare non existent, but shades the curvature of the end glass enough for most straight-on shooting.

Thank you, just what I needed to know. I really appreciate it. [emoji4]

hi i am the op - i bought one this weekend to test out - did not get the best price 699 (with 18-50mm) but they will price match later and can return easily enough to best buy. i am feeling a bit overwhelmed but it can idiot proof concern is that unless i get the larger lens this might not be good for alaska trip . although quality is totally there. my thought here was to get great quality without the bulk of the dslr but with the added lenses i am getting up there size wise.

If you get the Sony zoom (55-210mm) you will be in fairly good shape.

i know but sooo much to carry for a person coming from a point and shoot vs person coming down from dslr. i am going to play and watch some of the tutorials. i might also do a post to get some feedback on pocketable zooms good quality. see what people are saying.