Selfish or Sensible...Saying no to a tagalong

Thanks. I do want to say that I love my nephew dearly. He can be a bit difficult because he is not used to hearing "no" and when he is with me, I treat him just like I do my own kids. With love AND directing him to behave correctly. He is a sweet child at heart, he just needs a little more direction in his daily life and needs to hear "no" sometimes.

 

I did call my mom and tell her no, we cannot take him with us because if we are out in the Atlantic and he wants to go home and cannot be comforted, it would be a bad thing for me and traumatic for him.

 

So they are considering booking the same cruise and taking him themselves. It turns out my mom has a fear of ocean water and boats (not all water as they have a pool, but being on a ship in the ocean worries her) I never realized it. So that is the primary reason she did not want to go. But she is considering giving it a try so he can come.

 

The one thing I do not want to see is them pay for my sister to take him. THAT may very well make my head explode since they are her main enablers and she needs a bit of tough love so she can grow up. Personally, even if he met the preconditions, I wouldn't take him along without at least one grandparent. Further thought, have your parents pay for your sister to go.

 

So it will work out fine in the end. Maybe they will come along after all. If not, he can go on a cruise with me when he is a little older.

 

Thanks again!

 

If the problem is with his inability to stay overnight away from his grandparents, why not tell your parents that a prerequisite for even considering his going would be to stay at your brother's house for 3 nights, and follow all rules set by that household. Tell them this is required because if he misbehaves while at sea, there will be no recourse, and no way to get him back to them. Explain to them about rules on the ship: Security, needing to follow the Kid's Club advisors, obey lifeguards, many people other than the grandparents. I know this places a burden on your brother's family, but they would be involved as well, if your nephew came on the cruise. And anyway, it sounds like he wouldn't be able to stick it out anyway, since he hasn't been away from the grandparents house in his life.

 

My boys, and all nieces and nephews are all grown now, but I would have risked the ire of my parents in refusing to take him without a lot of preconditions, and maybe you can get them to split some of the cost for them to go as well, by creatively using cabins and 3rd/4th guest rates.

Edited April 18, 2014 by chengkp75

Has anyone seriously talked with this child to find out why he gets so upset when they want him to go with his mother? Maybe there is something more than you know going on that he is avoiding, or protecting himself from!

 

I do understand about young ones who do not behave well because of problems at home. ..and wanting to avoid that situation. When faced with the same circumstances, we chose to err on the side of the child's feelings and put off the "family" trip until all could attend.

 

Good luck & God bless!

I didn’t read the entire thread, but I can see that you are a kind and loving person. Your heart is certainly in the right place for all of different parts in this situation.

 

I am at the age where I have learned the hard way two very important aspects of life that make children’s lives richer when they become adults: Never lie and family time together. It seems that both of these qualities of life are becoming rarer in our culture.

 

I expect you are feeling a little guilt because you don't want to be charitable in this particular situation. However, when you reflect on the lifelong values your personal family gains from rare intimate experiences together, there is a peace from knowing that sometimes guilt can drive us to make wrong decisions. It’s ok for a parent to says this is important for my family, so I’m sorry the answer is no.

 

Have a great trip with your family. We always do.

 

Burt

It's a three day Disney cruise and he's 5 and you are taking your kids on a Carnival cruise next month. I would help my nephew learn how to spend time away from my mother ( his Grandma) by having him on some sleep overs and I would reward him with the cruise if he has matured to the point that he can spend 3 nights with your family in a row and her with 3 nights of freedom not having to raise your nephew. It's 3 nights and if you think that you feel guilty now, just wait a year!:)

I think taking Grandma along would be fine. I'm sure no one would be happy on that cruise if he decides 3 hours into the cruise to pitch a non-stop hissy fit. It sounds like you have been supportive of himand your parents with this issue, but seriously the world does not revolve around your sister's child. He's lucky to have grandparents to raise him and still have aunts and uncles that love him.

 

I agree with the concept of counseling, interventions blah blah blah [completely the responsible parties purview] but if you need to make a decision and put down money now - just say no. "No" is a complete sentence. "No thank you" is a polite complete sentence.

 

No mom, if you don't want to go, I think it would be better to wait until he's a little more mature. What if we started working on some overnight stays where it is possible to get him back to a safe zone rather than dropping him in a big unknown scary boat in the middle of the ocean to test the waters.

 

Can you imagine the long term damage to his already compromised little self if you were days away from grandma and something happened? He might never leave his house again. On the other hand, in a safe [to him] environment with grandma and family - he might really blossom.

A five-year-old that doesn't live on your street doesn't have to know much about the vacation. It's come up, and he may know something, but doesn't really have any concept of what a cruise or an 'away vacation' means.

 

Have grandma and grandpa limit their conversations about the trip, and he'll forget all about it by the time the event comes around. Kids this age have little concept of time (weeks/months), and less of what money and responsibility mean. If he asks why he didn't get to go, he can be told that it wasn't his turn yet, and leave it at that.

 

He won't be scarred for life, not by this. Honestly, bet most of us can't remember a vacation we went ON at the age of 5, much less one we missed.

Thanks. I do want to say that I love my nephew dearly. He can be a bit difficult because he is not used to hearing "no" and when he is with me, I treat him just like I do my own kids. With love AND directing him to behave correctly. He is a sweet child at heart, he just needs a little more direction in his daily life and needs to hear "no" sometimes.

This may be off-topic, but I have a niece who was a handful at his age . . . and today she's a wonderful 20 year old. The world taught her that it didn't revolve around her. Your nephew will learn this quickly enough when he begins school.

 

Without knowing the details, I agree that more structure and an occasional "no" are probably what he needs.

Tell your parents exactly what you told us---You didn't take your own kids when they were 5. If he cannot spend the night at a relative's house then he is not ready to go on vacation, or anywhere out of his 'element' over night.

There's no shame in you not having him come with you. At times you need to be selfish. YOu have to do what's right for you and yours.

 

How are they holding up? (No need to answer)

Sounds like they could use some Caretaker Relief.

Yes, I was thinking along these lines. I would not tell any lies about "no five person rooms", especially since that's so easy to verify on the internet . . . and if your parents should happen to catch you in a lie, then they do have a legitimate reason to be upset with you. A lie can only escalate this situation.

 

However, it is an indisputable fact that you didn't want to cruise with a small child AND he has not yet shown the ability to sleep away from home. If pushed to give a reason why he can't go with you, state these facts, which you can do honestly.

 

I also suspect that your parents would appreciate a break from raising a small child. I would say no to their request, BUT I would offer to help the situation by having the boy visit overnight and work on building up some "big boy skills".

 

I agree with the concept of counseling,

Today we have a knee-jerk reaction, "Oh, something's wrong -- that person needs counseling!" I disagree in this situation. The boy needs limits and parenting, not an introspective discussion of what's been done to him or around him. Counseling for children this age (perhaps play therapy) is often used to diagnose WHAT the problem is -- I don't really hear any concerns about that in this case.

 

If anyone could benefit from counseling, it'd be the grandparents. They're the ones who are creating the situation, and they're the ones who have the most ability to change his life. They're the ones would are old enough and mature enough to understand that this needs to happen. From what I'm hearing they feel guilty (guilty that they raised a daughter who can't parent her own child, guilty that the child isn't growing up in a typical family with a mom the same age as his classmates' moms and a dad who's young enough to coach t-ball, guilty for whatever else). I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't also dealing with some anger: They've raised their children, done their work, and now they're forced to begin again at an older age. And they could probably benefit from some discussion about community resources that might be helpful to him.

Really, folks, the OP was asking for perspective on a given situation which may just be a matter of miscommunication. I find the jumps to interventions, psychological counseling, or other remedial actions regarding the child to be bit much.

 

It is not at all unusual for a 5 year old to feel insecure and uncomfortable staying in a foreign environment. The issue concerns taking him on a short cruise and the surprise response of grandma of yes take him at your own expense and responsibility.

 

It appears that the OP and her mom are on the way to a resolution and I wish them well. No need for such jumps to conclusions about psychological issues, etc. We really know very little (almost nothing) about the child or anything else about the family.

Really, folks, the OP was asking for perspective on a given situation which may just be a matter of miscommunication. I find the jumps to interventions, psychological counseling, or other remedial actions regarding the child to be bit much.

 

It is not at all unusual for a 5 year old to feel insecure and uncomfortable staying in a foreign environment. The issue concerns taking him on a short cruise and the surprise response of grandma of yes take him at your own expense and responsibility.

 

It appears that the OP and her mom are on the way to a resolution and I wish them well. No need for such jumps to conclusions about psychological issues, etc. We really know very little (almost nothing) about the child or anything else about the family.

 

 

I disagree. From the OP's OP it sure sounded like the Grandma was going to pay the 5 year old's way. I think that the Grandma trying to have all of her grandchildren on a Disney cruise actually sweet. She didn't want the little guy to miss out. It's only 3 days people.

I disagree. From the OP's OP it sure sounded like the Grandma was going to pay the 5 year old's way. I think that the Grandma trying to have all of her grandchildren on a Disney cruise actually sweet. She didn't want the little guy to miss out. It's only 3 days people.

 

You know, as much as I love him, if he decided he didn't want to be there, there's no way I would have wanted to be on a cruise (of any length) with my youngest at 5.

 

Some kids are more of a challenge than others.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Shmoo here

You know, as much as I love him, if he decided he didn't want to be there, there's no way I would have wanted to be on a cruise (of any length) with my youngest at 5.

 

Some kids are more of a challenge than others.

 

A lot can change in a child especially in the 8 months that they can cancel with no penalty. His mom left him 2 months ago. I would give him the opportunity to stabilize and thrive under his new living arrangements before making the decision that he would not be able to handle it. From reading the posts it sounds like the little guy sees his uncle 2-3 times a week. Eight months is a long time in the development of a child. I think that if he can handle 3 days at his uncles house without an issue he would be able to handle 3 days packed with adventure and fun and Disney characters.:)

As a mom, I've had lots of experience with kids doing sleepovers at our house. At the age of 5 there were very few kids that came to stay with the DS that ever made it past 10 pm without wanting me to call their mommies to come get them. This little boy is not "abnormal". His mother moved out and for whatever reason, he didn't want to go with her. The problem is with the mother and not with the child. He's needs tons of love and compassion. The Grandparents are trying to do their best for him.

 

I don't think the OP needs to make up any stories. Just be truthful...it is not in this child's best interest at this time to take him on a trip where they won't be able to get him back to his grandparents when he gets upset at night and wants to go home to them. It would be a disaster to take him without the grandparents along.

 

I hope everything works out for this family. I wish them Peace.

I don't have any experience of being a mum, but I do know what it's like to loose your own mum at the age of 4 1/2. My dad worked away (and was only 30) so I was brought up by my grand-parents (my mums parents) from that age. She used to tell me that when I was around 5-6, she darent even go into a different isle away from me in the supermarket, as I would cry and panic if I couldnt see her. I can remeber years later, around 7-9 yrs old, still being unable to be away from my 'gran' for more than a few hours, without panicking that she wouldnt be there when I got back. School friends birthday parties etc, were a no-no, unless she came with me, and sleepovers - OMG no way.

 

When my dad remarried some years later, he tried a sleepover with him and his new family - I screamed the place down, and had to be brought home in a terrible state the next day.

 

Sometimes its easy to second guess whats going on in a childs head - I can only say I had a wonderful up-bringing, with no material things, but endless love from by grandparents. They were in their late 50's when they 'acquired' me,lol, and probably thought their child rearing days were over too. I think I turned out OK, they were very proud of me when they were alive, and the person I am today is all down to them :)

 

So, OP, I can only agree with how you feel - you are definitely doing the right thing IMHO

 

 

Lou

Edited April 19, 2014 by Lovemychoos

You sound like a wonderful person who has gotten caught in the quagmire of a very dysfunctional situation. Keep YOUR family in focus, enjoy that vacation without YOU taking the responsibility of the nephew and be very kind and patient to his grandparents who shoulder the responsibility. That doesn't mean taking the nephew on vacation...

 

Bless all grandparents who rescue their grandchildren...

Bless all grandparents who rescue their grandchildren...

 

I'll definitely second that :D

 

I don't think the OP needs to make up any stories. Just be truthful...it is not in this child's best interest at this time to take him on a trip where they won't be able to get him back to his grandparents when he gets upset at night and wants to go home to them. It would be a disaster to take him without the grandparents along.

 

 

DITTO on that one.

I don't have any experience of being a mum, but I do know what it's like to loose your own mum at the age of 4 1/2. My dad worked away (and was only 30) so I was brought up by my grand-parents (my mums parents) from that age. She used to tell me that when I was around 5-6, she darent even go into a different isle away from me in the supermarket, as I would cry and panic if I couldnt see her. I can remeber years later, around 7-9 yrs old, still being unable to be away from my 'gran' for more than a few hours, without panicking that she wouldnt be there when I got back. School friends birthday parties etc, were a no-no, unless she came with me, and sleepovers - OMG no way.

 

When my dad remarried some years later, he tried a sleepover with him and his new family - I screamed the place down, and had to be brought home in a terrible state the next day.

 

Sometimes its easy to second guess whats going on in a childs head - I can only say I had a wonderful up-bringing, with no material things, but endless love from by grandparents. They were in their late 50's when they 'acquired' me,lol, and probably thought their child rearing days were over too. I think I turned out OK, they were very proud of me when they were alive, and the person I am today is all down to them :)

 

So, OP, I can only agree with how you feel - you are definitely doing the right thing IMHO

 

 

Lou

 

What a heart rending and beautiful story. Certainly puts cruises into perspective. The child would be happier at home with his routine and his beloved grandparents.

 

And yes, bless all the grandparents out there who step in and raise a child after they thought their parenting days were over.

Obviously some of you have never experienced the "I want to go home" meltdown during a sleepover. I still wouldn't trust my TEN YEAR OLD granddaughter, much less an emotionally challenged five year old after the last time we tried it.

 

Not sure what even set her off. She was fine, even excited to sleep in her "new" bed, then it started. She was hysterical. She has been hinting that she would like just the three of us going on a cruise. No way. We have taken her along with her parents twice.

Obviously some of you have never experienced the "I want to go home" meltdown during a sleepover. I still wouldn't trust my TEN YEAR OLD granddaughter, much less an emotionally challenged five year old after the last time we tried it.

 

Not sure what even set her off. She was fine, even excited to sleep in her "new" bed, then it started. She was hysterical. She has been hinting that she would like just the three of us going on a cruise. No way. We have taken her along with her parents twice.

 

For sure I have. My 3 DD's have had many, many sleep overs through the years. Practice makes perfect so I guess that's why I myself would feel comfortable in this situation. I am by far in the minority on this one but I also carry guilt very badly and I know that I would feel guilty for a very long time if all the cousins but this one got to go on a 3 night Disney cruise.

We booked a 10 day cruise to Alaska on the Grand Princess out of SF last summer just for special time with our then-9 yr old granddaughter. She was very excited about going as we chatted about the cruise over the phone often. We had taken our two grandsons on a cruise several years ago and they had a fabulous time.

We arranged for the BonVoyage Experience for her parents and we all had fun touring the ship and having lunch together. Her parents got off, no problem....lots of hugs and waving goodbye. They were up on the bridge with a big flag and we waved as we went under. Everything was fine.

On the 3rd day, she started to tear up and wanted to talk to her folks. At the first port we called them. She took the phone and walked as far away from us as she could get while talking to Mom. I finally had to go and see what was going on. She was crying. We had a long talk & of course we called Mom every port we got to. She coped just fine but asked me several times "how many more days, Grandma?" On the last evening, she wrote a thank-you card to our room steward and concluded with "I will come back when I am a teenager."

She told me she would rather come out to Texas as she'd done the year before. Only explanation I got was coming to see us in Texas was "more like a home."

She'll be coming out here again this summer. Obviously no cruising for awhile.

Sorry, didn't mean to go on and on, just wanted to point out how different kids can be.

As a mom, I've had lots of experience with kids doing sleepovers at our house. At the age of 5 there were very few kids that came to stay with the DS that ever made it past 10 pm without wanting me to call their mommies to come get them. This little boy is not "abnormal". His mother moved out and for whatever reason, he didn't want to go with her. The problem is with the mother and not with the child. He's needs tons of love and compassion. The Grandparents are trying to do their best for him.

 

I don't think the OP needs to make up any stories. Just be truthful...it is not in this child's best interest at this time to take him on a trip where they won't be able to get him back to his grandparents when he gets upset at night and wants to go home to them. It would be a disaster to take him without the grandparents along.

 

I hope everything works out for this family. I wish them Peace.

 

 

You are correct. Many,many 5 year olds do not do well with sleepovers away from home. As many mistakes as my sister has made, and continues to make, she did not intend to move out without him. She meant for him to leave with her. But that 1st night he pitched a fit and rather than working through it and making him stay, she took him back to my parents for the night. So he never moved out with her. She was upset he did not come, my point of view is that parents make decisions not children. But as I said, he gets his way, even in that matter. But honestly I don't blame him, my parents are the ones who cared for him most of the time. Kids know who is their source of safety and security. In his case, its his grandparents, not his mom.

 

That said thanks to all for the advice and encouragement. Yes, my parents are the heroes in this situation. It's not easy and all involved have made mistakes.

 

When I spoke to my mom, I was honest about why we could not take him. It took a moment of convincing that despite what she thought he would not "be okay". So the ball is in their court on if they decide to join us.

 

It's all resolved now.

All this talk about sleepovers reminded me of a birthday party sleepover my daughter had about three years ago (girls were about 13 or so years of age). When I got up in the morning, I took a head count and one girl was missing. I was freaking out but one girl said the other one called her father around 11pm or so and asked him to come get her (and it didn't occur to anyone to come upstairs and tell me). She just freaked out (my girl probably put on some horror movies on the DVD perhaps -- like Beetlejuice, Rocky Horror,etc. -- not like Halloween or Elm Street). I think my daughter was probably 11 or so before she stayed the night at a friend's, but the tween or preteen age seems like a good time to start them unless they go to overnight camp (which my girl hasn't done).

 

Hopefully withe the OP's nephew, the grandmother will be realistic about whether the child will react badly to being away from the home. Maybe the grands can take a little overnight trip, staying in a hotel, to test that out. I would hate that they take the child on a cruise ship that he can't leave from and react to that. Maybe take baby steps as therapists do with phobias such as a fear of flying.

Don't do it....just DON'T do it. WWIII will break out if you come back from a ruined cruise with a sobbing kid in tow too. Whatever you do, don't get guilted into taking a child that would likely have a meltdown.

The issue is that there is my sister's son who would be the only child in the family not coming. She is a single mom and frankly is a hot mess. She recently moved out of my parents house and my nephew who is 5 refused to go and they allowed him to stay with my parents.

 

I did call my mom and tell her no, ...

 

So they are considering booking the same cruise and taking him themselves. It turns out my mom has a fear of ocean water and boats (not all water as they have a pool, but being on a ship in the ocean worries her) I never realized it. So that is the primary reason she did not want to go. But she is considering giving it a try so he can come.

Nice that your parents might decide to sail (for the sake of their grandson), although you need to tell them (before they book), that they will need the child's birth certificate or passport, and if custody/visitation is shared or the father has any say in travel matters then they will need written approval from both parents - not just from your daughter. Could get messy with boarding being denied if such approvals are not in their hands when they arrive at the port.

Tell your folks that the ONLY way he can go is with them. Do they have legal custody? They would need to bring proof of that or notarized statement from both parents for even them to take him out of the country.

If he only wants to sleep in their home think about what he would be like on a ship with out them. He can't just go back 'home' when he's on a ship no matter how much he cries and begs. He would be unhappy the whole cruise and so would you. Do his grandparents just want time away from him, time for just them, without him?

You are not being selfish, you are being reasonable and you are thinking of his welfare knowing he won't sleep anywhere but at Grandparents house. You don't want him upset for days because he's not with them.