Cancellation, Refund - and Disappointment

On July 3 I found (what I thought then to be) a GREAT cruise with a very attractive prize - the 20th of August, Black Sea on the Quest. So we booked it - and, as it was already after the 'final payment date", of course paid it in full. And were very excited at the prospect of going again on Azamara after almost 2 years of "being away"!

And then - about a week or so later - started our war with Gaza (we are Israelis) - with all its repercussions.

This is not the kind of thread to discuss it, so let's just say that one of its results, which is relevant here, has been the 'changed" situation between Israel and Turkey. The "climate" in Turkey became very unpleasant (to put it mildly) - actually even dangerous - to Israelis.. and so our Foreign Office issued a warning for "unnecessary travel" to that country.

So what do you do with a cruise that starts and ends in Istanbul - and has 3 other stops in Turkey?

So.. after some deliberation, we decided to cancel.

We were already in the '75% penalty' time zone, but we did hope that the special circumstances would make a difference. Actually our TA was quite optimistic about it (something about 'Geo-political circumstances") - and predicted that we'll be allowed to move all - or at least part - of our payment to an alternative cruise. So we even chose one - 'just in case'.. :o

Well.. It didn't work that way. The answer we got was negative... My only hope (I've been told) was to write - via my TA - a personal letter to Azamara's president. Which I did - more than a week ago.

Still haven't heard from anyone since then.

But am still hoping!! :)

And in the meantime we got our refund.

And lo and behold! It's exactly 25% - (to the cent!) of the total amount we paid to Azamara! Which included $50 for transfers from airport to the ship (so we are still paying 75% of THAT?).. and the so called port fees and taxes (aren't those supposedly "excluded' form the penalty?) ..

So is this how it should be?

2 remarks;

The commission part our TA got from Azamara for this cruise has been credited back to us for any future cruise through them - within one year.

Turkish Airlines (!) - acknowledging the "special circumstances" - were considerate enough to waive their penalty (200 Euros) for our cancelled flights.

Maybe Azamara could learn from them?

(And if you ask - how about insurance? Yes, we had one, but it only covered medical reasons.. Maybe we could have used it if we had actually been hit by one of the rockets... That was close - but luckily we weren't! )

Miriam

I am not unsympathetic but your issue is the same that occurs on ALL cruise lines when war breaks out or other unforeseeable events occur. If you read the contract of passage, the cruise line has the right to substitute ports at its discretion and that is not grounds for cancellation. Priority 1 is passenger safety. Would you want it any other way?

If you look at the Oceania boards, e.g., same problem. Ports in Egypt and Israel have been cancelled and folks booked those cruises precisely to visit those ports. Their dream cruise has been "converted" into a cruise to Greece and Turkey and they are not happy.

Some posters have responded to the complaints such as yours by saying that if you want to be sure to visit a particular place, don't book a cruise. There is no guarantee that any port will be visited. I think that's an accurate statement. That's why we spent three weeks in Egypt this past February on a land tour. Those who want to be sure to visit Israel need to book a land tour too.

As for the Ukraine, every cruise line is canceling the ports in Crimea. It should not be a surprise. And not one of them is going to reimburse passengers other than through the standard cancellation policy.

I am not unsympathetic but your issue is the same that occurs on ALL cruise lines when war breaks out or other unforeseeable events occur. If you read the contract of passage, the cruise line has the right to substitute ports at its discretion and that is not grounds for cancellation. Priority 1 is passenger safety. Would you want it any other way?........

 

.

Even though your answer has little to do with my complaint (maybe you can reread my original post? actually it has nothing to do with substituted ports etc.. :)) - I still thank you very much for answering!

Because you actually pointed out the obvious. That the number one priority of a ship company is the safety of its passengers. ALL of its passengers. (including those with Israeli passports)

And when the circumstances have suddenly changed in a way that can endanger us in these (unchanged) Turkish ports -these new circumstances should (or at least could) have been taken into consideration while deliberating our cancellation penalty.

thanks again!

Miriam

i did misread your post -- sorry

But actually my answer would be no different

The US frequently issues travel warnings to US citizens -- Egypt, Israel, Kenya of late. The cruise line cannot be responsible for what one country is telling its citizens. Often (not always) the fear is overblown IMO. EG We just traveled to Egypt in complete safety (it's safer then Chicago) and we have an upcoming port in Mombasa. If I listened to the US State Department I would have to stay home.

If you were FORBIDDEN from traveling that would be a different story -- your insurance would kick in I presume. But a cruise line that hosts guests from all over the world cannot be expected to issue cancellations based on one country's warnings. You can always choose not to disembark at a particular port.

i did misread your post -- sorry

 

But actually my answer would be no different

 

The US frequently issues travel warnings to US citizens -- Egypt, Israel, Kenya of late. The cruise line cannot be responsible for what one country is telling its citizens. Often (not always) the fear is overblown IMO. EG We just traveled to Egypt in complete safety (it's safer then Chicago) and we have an upcoming port in Mombasa. If I listened to the US State Department I would have to stay home.

 

If you were FORBIDDEN from traveling that would be a different story -- your insurance would kick in I presume. But a cruise line that hosts guests from all over the world cannot be expected to issue cancellations based on one country's warnings. You can always choose not to disembark at a particular port.

Travelling to a country against currently in force government advice often invalidates any travel insurance you have. Whilst an individual might have their own perception of risk, they are not in possession if all the facts available to their government. I certainly would not travel to a country against FCO advice (Foreign and Commonwealth Office that issues the UK advisories as required)

To the OP sorry about your disappointment and hope there is some resolution for you. We live in challenging times around the world just now

Miriam,

I am so sorry that you have had to cancel your cruise. Under the circumstances I think Azamara might have allowed you to transfer to a different itinerary. Maybe you will still achieve a good resolution.

In the meantime I hope you and your family stay safe and that this dreadful situation will end soon and bring peace to everyone.

Travelling to a country against currently in force government advice often invalidates any travel insurance you have. Whilst an individual might have their own perception of risk, they are not in possession if all the facts available to their government. I certainly would not travel to a country against FCO advice (Foreign and Commonwealth Office that issues the UK advisories as required)

 

To the OP sorry about your disappointment and hope there is some resolution for you. We live in challenging times around the world just now

Too true, and this thread reminded us to check today whether, under our policy, we continue to be covered for travel warnings from the Canadian government.

Although perceptions of risk do indeed vary, I should think that if we ignore such official statements and the worst happens, depending on the nature of that warning we might not expect aid from our consular officers, assuming they are in place, to come to our aid.

So thanks for to the OP for this thread, although I'm not optimistic you will receive your desired settlement.

I do believe that the OP situation is different from just cancelled ports and disappointment of a changed cruise. The OP the way that I read this situation is a citizen of Israel and carrying that and only that passport. The government of that passport country has said not to go to the country the cruise starts and finishes in for safety and political reasons. What if cruiser goes to Istanbul and is refused entrance by Turkish government? Is it the same situation? Who knows what the situation will be in a few weeks -- peaceful solutions seem to be in short supply. Somehow in my mind this is a different situation than someone who just decides they are "uncomfortable" traveling in another country because of the situation -- this is several degrees past that because of the Israeli passport which will certainly cause more issues than other passports and the individual's will or control has no bearing with either country!

The simplest and best solution to this problem is for AZ to take individual case by case action. For good will, allow this Israeli passport holding and ticketed passenger transfer funds to another cruise that they can "legally" travel to without going against their government warnings.

i did misread your post -- sorry

 

But actually my answer would be no different......

 

.... You can always choose not to disembark at a particular port.

Laraine, that's so true.. If only we could have been lifted to the ship by a helicopter .. and then back again at the end of the cruise - I would have been happy just to spend all of the 12 days of the cruise on board the Quest - no ports visited at all! :D

Seriously.. This cruise starts and ends in Istanbul.. We need to get to the ship.. and then get off it. The 2 first ports are Turkish - as are the last 2. So how exactly can we avoid Turkey?

Some cases are just different from others - and I still hope that somebody there "on the top" of Azamara realizes that.

They could have easily credited the rest of the money we spent towards a future cruise. This way they would have shown good will and bought our gratitude - and ensured that we'll indeed want to come back again - and soon!

(and have I mentioned that Turkish Airlines - have cancelled our flights to Turkey without penalties? :) )

By the way - we have another cruise in September (Celebrity) which starts in Amsterdam and ends in.. (yes, again!) Istanbul. With no fuss, we arranged for an early disembarking in Athens.. We're going to 'lose' 3 days of that cruise.. some money (additional flight tickets, gratuities :)).. But we don't have any complaints.. Just happy that this time it's 'doable"!

Miriam

Miriam,

 

I am so sorry that you have had to cancel your cruise. Under the circumstances I think Azamara might have allowed you to transfer to a different itinerary. Maybe you will still achieve a good resolution.

 

In the meantime I hope you and your family stay safe and that this dreadful situation will end soon and bring peace to everyone.

Thanks!

I hope so too...... :)

Miriam

I do believe that the OP situation is different from just cancelled ports and disappointment of a changed cruise. The OP the way that I read this situation is a citizen of Israel and carrying that and only that passport. The government of that passport country has said not to go to the country the cruise starts and finishes in for safety and political reasons. What if cruiser goes to Istanbul and is refused entrance by Turkish government? Is it the same situation? Who knows what the situation will be in a few weeks -- peaceful solutions seem to be in short supply. Somehow in my mind this is a different situation than someone who just decides they are "uncomfortable" traveling in another country because of the situation -- this is several degrees past that because of the Israeli passport which will certainly cause more issues than other passports and the individual's will or control has no bearing with either country!

 

The simplest and best solution to this problem is for AZ to take individual case by case action. For good will, allow this Israeli passport holding and ticketed passenger transfer funds to another cruise that they can "legally" travel to without going against their government warnings.

Barbara, you totally 'got it'!

I couldn't have explained it better myself !! :)

Miriam

Laraine, that's so true.. If only we could have been lifted to the ship by a helicopter .. and then back again at the end of the cruise - I would have been happy just to spend all of the 12 days of the cruise on board the Quest - no ports visited at all! :D

Seriously.. This cruise starts and ends in Istanbul.. We need to get to the ship.. and then get off it. The 2 first ports are Turkish - as are the last 2. So how exactly can we avoid Turkey?

Some cases are just different from others - and I still hope that somebody there "on the top" of Azamara realizes that.

They could have easily credited the rest of the money we spent towards a future cruise. This way they would have shown good will and bought our gratitude - and ensured that we'll indeed want to come back again - and soon!

 

(and have I mentioned that Turkish Airlines - have cancelled our flights to Turkey without penalties? :) )

 

By the way - we have another cruise in September (Celebrity) which starts in Amsterdam and ends in.. (yes, again!) Istanbul. With no fuss, we arranged for an early disembarking in Athens.. We're going to 'lose' 3 days of that cruise.. some money (additional flight tickets, gratuities :)).. But we don't have any complaints.. Just happy that this time it's 'doable"!

Miriam

Turkish Airlines is the best airline in the world -- so not surprised that accommodated you.

The problem as I see it is that Turkey is not telling Israeli citizens not to come to Turkey -- it's the other way around. I do not see how a cruise line can accommodate all the political requirements in this complicated world. If the US told all of its citizens not to travel to Israel e.g. (which it largely has) and Azamara decided to stop in Israeli ports for 3 nights, Azamara would not be accommodating American citizens either. I doubt ANY cruise line would do that.

You need the "rachmunis" factor here -- you have to find someone high enough in the food chain who can make decisions as opposed to just following policy. Given Azamara's poor shoreside service, could be difficult but I would keep trying. Perhaps Bonnie can help you?

Laraine is totally correct. You need a decision maker to step in.

Miriam are you on twitter? If so, perhaps you could send a tweet and then a direct message to Larry Pimentel (@LarryPimentel)

Good luck

Laraine is totally correct. You need a decision maker to step in.

 

Miriam are you on twitter? If so, perhaps you could send a tweet and then a direct message to Larry Pimentel (@LarryPimentel)

 

Good luck

Thank you!

I did write to Larry Pimentel (8 days ago) .. As suggested by my TA and using their services. Haven't heard anything back yet, but still hopping!

(maybe they lost my email? :) If so - and if somebody from the "decision makers department" is reading this then it's miriam10_il@yahoo.com)

And nooo. I am not on twitter.. Should I look him up on Facebook?? :confused:

Miriam

Thank you!

 

I did write to Larry Pimentel (8 days ago) .. As suggested by my TA and using their services. Haven't heard anything back yet, but still hopping!

(maybe they lost my email? :) If so - and if somebody from the "decision makers department" is reading this then it's miriam10_il@yahoo.com)

 

And nooo. I am not on twitter.. Should I look him up on Facebook?? :confused:

 

Miriam

Sorry, I am not a Facebook user but it's probably worth a try.

Even if you had travel insurance, most would not cover this situation.

Yes, you should get your port fees and taxes refunded.

It sounds like you did your due diligence and looked at flying into and meeting the ship at another port, and leaving early. This is evidenced by the fact you are doing exactly that on a Celebrity cruise.

I believe these type of situations need to be handled on a case by case basis, and Azamara should let you have a 75% credit to use on another cruise.

Even if you had travel insurance, most would not cover this situation.

 

Yes, you should get your port fees and taxes refunded.

 

It sounds like you did your due diligence and looked at flying into and meeting the ship at another port, and leaving early. This is evidenced by the fact you are doing exactly that on a Celebrity cruise.

 

I believe these type of situations need to be handled on a case by case basis, and Azamara should let you have a 75% credit to use on another cruise.

Well.. strangely, we did not get port fees and taxes back..

Nor - even more strangely - the $50 we paid for the transfer from the airport to the cruise ship. As I've already mentioned - everything we paid was "lumped" together - and our credit card account has been credited with (exactly!) 25% of that sum. (it says - by RCI)

And to tell you the truth, I have no idea even to whom to complain about it..

Thanks for the support..:)

Miriam

Thanks for the support!

I hope that you get a response from Azamara. Not all insurance policies are the same. Did your policy cover terrorism and acts of war? I am booked on a tour to Israel in October. When I booked in May, I did not expect the conflict in Israel. I have not canceled. I hope that the fighting stops soon. If not, the tour company has reassured us that they will cancel the trip. They will also refund our money. I can also cancel and get my money back. I do not think that Azamara or any cruise line would put guests into a harmful situation. I am rather surpised that Azamara is still doing the Black Sea cruise. I know people who were booked on the Quest Aug. 20 and rebooked on the Journey Aug. 20. Good luck. I hope you get satisfaction.

Turkish Airlines is the best airline in the world -- so not surprised that accommodated you.

 

The problem as I see it is that Turkey is not telling Israeli citizens not to come to Turkey -- it's the other way around. I do not see how a cruise line can accommodate all the political requirements in this complicated world. If the US told all of its citizens not to travel to Israel e.g. (which it largely has) and Azamara decided to stop in Israeli ports for 3 nights, Azamara would not be accommodating American citizens either. I doubt ANY cruise line would do that.

 

You need the "rachmunis" factor here -- you have to find someone high enough in the food chain who can make decisions as opposed to just following policy. Given Azamara's poor shoreside service, could be difficult but I would keep trying. Perhaps Bonnie can help you?

The mystery of Turkish Airlines' unexpected magnanimity has been just solved. And it has nothing to do with their being (or not) "the best airline in the world". (I agree that they are good, but not THAT good)

If you check their website, you'll find that they've just announced that "due to operational reasons'' they are canceling "most of their flights to and from Tel Aviv between 18 August and 25 October" (!).

"Our" flight (the earliest one on the 20 August) is now officially canceled .. as are also 3 later flights ! So it seems that if we hadn't canceled - we would have been NOW in a situation when we have a cruise ( already with 100% penalty! ) and no reasonable way to get there.

Laraine, I don't think we need 'rahmunis' :). I still hope that common sense and good will should be enough to see that this IS indeed a "special case".

And I would love to hear from Bonnie..

Miriam

Good luck

Let us know how it turns out

Azamara does not have the smartest policy when it comes to public relations. They could build some good will here. Good opportunity for them to make it a win win. Let's see if they rise to the occasion.

Miriam,

Bonnie is currently on vacation on the Journey so it is unlikely she will be monitoring this thread.

In her absence Azamara Joel has been posting. Possibly he can assist you as I believe he is based in Miami.

Thank you!

 

I did write to Larry Pimentel (8 days ago) .. As suggested by my TA and using their services. Haven't heard anything back yet, but still hopping!

(maybe they lost my email? :) If so - and if somebody from the "decision makers department" is reading this then it's miriam10_il@yahoo.com)

 

And nooo. I am not on twitter.. Should I look him up on Facebook?? :confused:

 

Miriam

I am confident that you will receive a response to your email. I've contacted him on a few occasions and have always heard back. I hope you're able to transfer to another sailing.

I am confident that you will receive a response to your email. I've contacted him on a few occasions and have always heard back. I hope you're able to transfer to another sailing.

TerryAndDoug , thanks for your post.

If you've been in touch with him in the past - do you have a more direct line to him? I wrote to him c/o my TA and can't be even sure that it arrived at its destination. If you have - can you write to me at the email you quoted in your answer to me?

TIA Miriam

Sorry to read about your problems, and I hope they work out OK. I had to cancel a trip a few years back on the day before it sailed so I lost 100% and the insurance did not cover the reason either. However I did get back all of the port and tax charges along with the prepaid shore trips etc. They were posted on my CC in a few days with no hassle. The way I would address this part of the issue would be to put a complaint in to the CC company or complain directly to RCI as that is who is listed on the CC.

Miriam

First of all I hope you and yours continue to be safe.

We had a Black sea cruise booked with Celebrity for October this year. When all the trouble first kicked off in the Ukraine we decided we didn't want to go. Our Government in the UK were at that point advising against travel. Celebrity hadn't organised alternative ports but agreed to us switching to a far east cruise with no penalty.

The difference is that you are much closer to sailing date and I guess cruise companies must be having to sell these Black sea itineraries hard to fill the ships. They must be making an effort to avoid cancellations and switches.

In your special circumstances though I would have thought more could be done. As a new Azamara customer I'm interested to see how good Azamara's legendary service is in difficult circumstances like this