We would avoid travel to Egypt

We do not normally post on this type of matter, but this seems somewhat compelling. DW and I really love traveling in Egypt and have even spent 2 weeks just working our way thought the country from one end (Abu Simbal) to the other (Alexandria) by ourselves. We have always found the Egyptian people friendly, helpful, and very polite to Americans. However, all this has now changed in such a big way, that DW and I would no longer consider traveling to that country (and we are normally pretty adventurous and willing to go to countries that many might avoid). The problem is that the current Egyptian government has become unpredictable and no longer seems to care about protecting Americans or tourists. In our experience (forty + years of international travel) once a government starts playing the "political hostage game" as is now happening in Egypt, a tourist is literally rolling the dice. At this point there is no guarantee that the Egyptian governement would not simply decide to hold an entire busload of cruise passengers or something similar. My advice (probably not worth much) is that any American citizen avoid travel to Egypt until such time as their government gets their act together.

Our hearts go out to the Egyptian people who depend on tourist dollars for a major part of their economy. It is obvious that the people have been double crossed by their own government and this is just a darn shame. We cannot imagine why any cruise line (carrying Americans) would call at an Egyptian port at this time and think its a place to be avoided until such time as their government renews their committment to support and protect tourists.

Hank

Frankly I am very glad we went to Egypt two years ago. And their are lots of well seasoned travelers who insist it's still safe. But in recent days it's getting worse for travelers to Egypt. And just today many Egyptian media outlets are threatening Americans and the US over aid packages and promoting Anarchy.

Feb 14, 2012: Egypt state media accuses US of spreading anarchy

Source: reuters // Reuters

* "America is behind the anarchy", state daily says

* Minister sees U.S. attempt to subvert change in Egypt

* Dispute among worst in decades of close U.S.-Egyptian ties

CAIRO, Feb 14 (Reuters) - State-run newspapers splashed accusations of a U.S. plan to spread "anarchy" in Egypt, escalating a dispute that Washington said on Tuesday must be resolved to ensure their continued military cooperation.

Based on remarks by a government minister, the headlines marked another low in the crisis between Washington and Cairo triggered by the investigation into U.S.-based non-governmental organisations that has resulted in criminal charges against Americans who have been banned from leaving the country.

http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/egypt-state-media-accuses-us-of-spreading-anarchy

Certainly understand what you guys are saying; however, we are very excited about our cruise that includes two overnights in Egypt in late October. Obviously we won't be able to go if things don't settle down in the next few months. I just hope Celebrity doesn't change/cancel anything this far out. We have put off going over there for the last few years and finally decided to just do it. Keep your fingers crossed for us!

I still have hopes. :):):)

Certainly understand what you guys are saying; however, we are very excited about our cruise that includes two overnights in Egypt in late October. Obviously we won't be able to go if things don't settle down in the next few months. I just hope Celebrity doesn't change/cancel anything this far out. We have put off going over there for the last few years and finally decided to just do it. Keep your fingers crossed for us!

I still have hopes. :):):)

I hope it works out for you. We did the Celebrity Eclipse two years ago and had a great time. The cruise lines have a big responsibility to protect their passengers and assets. In addition to the Egyptian transition government holding a group of Americans for trial, today they are threatening the U.S. if they hold back some foreign aid money the U.S. is due to give Egypt. Who knows how it will shake out in the coming months.

Well we will be there next month, and have no intentions of not going.

Having been all over Egypt, we have no reason to think we will be in any more danger than staying in New York or Atlanta (loved both cities )

We are going next month and have every intention to do and see what we can.

Lived in London for many years with terrorist bombs going off ( IRA )

Do you think that no tourists ever came to London / England in all those years ?

Kind regards

Tony

Well we will be there next month, and have no intentions of not going.

 

Having been all over Egypt, we have no reason to think we will be in any more danger than staying in New York or Atlanta (loved both cities )

I hope your trip is safe and you have a great time. But the last time I looked, neither NYC or Atlanta had 72 people killed after a sporting event, stopped visitors from leaving, or had exploded into violence. These stories are all from yesterday.

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/egypt-pyramids-and-revolution/2012/feb/14/sports-violence-triggers-egypts-latest-crisis/ Sports violence triggers Egypt's latest crisis

http://bikyamasr.com/57159/egypt-bars-australian-journalist-us-student-and-translator-from-leaving-country/ CAIRO: An Australian journalist, an American student and their Egyptian translator have been barred from leaving Egypt ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/14/sinai-violence-poverty-alienation-bedouin-egypt?newsfeed=true Sinai explodes into violence after years of chronic poverty and alienation

I hope your trip is safe and you have a great time. But the last time I looked, neither NYC or Atlanta had 72 people killed after a sporting event, stopped visitors from leaving, or had exploded into violence. These stories are all from yesterday.

 

 

 

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/egypt-pyramids-and-revolution/2012/feb/14/sports-violence-triggers-egypts-latest-crisis/ Sports violence triggers Egypt's latest crisis

 

http://bikyamasr.com/57159/egypt-bars-australian-journalist-us-student-and-translator-from-leaving-country/ CAIRO: An Australian journalist, an American student and their Egyptian translator have been barred from leaving Egypt ...

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/14/sinai-violence-poverty-alienation-bedouin-egypt?newsfeed=true Sinai explodes into violence after years of chronic poverty and alienation

While I don't dispute that tourists should seriously consider if this is really the right time to visit Egypt, sometimes those headlines can be a little misleading.

In the case of the journalist and student, they were not tourists. The student was studying labor unrest in Egypt, and the journalist was with him, trying to meet with a labor organizer. That's getting a bit more involved with the dynamics of Egyptian politics than a tour of the pyramids.

When Brits stop going to Egypt is when it's not safe. The Foreign Office would advise against travel and we would not get insurance either if we went against their advice. In addition, tour operators stop all travel too.

So my advice is keep an eye on the FO's advice and when Thomsons, Thomas Cook and their ilk stop holidays that's the time to cancel:)

I have mixed feelings on travel to Egypt right now. Things are unsettled, that much I think we can all agree on. While logic tells me it is unlikely that someone visiting Egypt for a day or two from a cruise ship is likely to meet with any significant trouble (cruise ships would probably have enough advance warning of serious issues to avoid porting there), I also don't know if I would wholeheartedly recommend Egypt as a travel destination at this moment.

I do agree headlines are blown out of proportion, and would add to Zukini's comment that visitors from a cruise ship would be pretty unlikely to be impacted by a riot at a local soccer match.

Edited to add: While nothing horrific happened in Atlanta and NYC in the past weeks, let us not think anywhere is safe. In the Atlanta Olympic Park bombing of 1996, hundreds of tourists were injured and one person was killed. And of course, NYC suffered through the horrific 9/11 events a decade ago.

Well we will be there next month, and have no intentions of not going.

 

Having been all over Egypt, we have no reason to think we will be in any more danger than staying in New York or Atlanta (loved both cities )

This. I was in Egypt in January. I would go back again. I had a great time. The people were very friendly and welcoming. Use local guides to do a lot of touring. The Australian travel advisory warning has remained the same for months now. When it changes to Do Not Travel like it is for Syria. Then that's the time to pull up stumps. Before I left Australia my insurance company stated that the travel advisory would have to change to do not travel or my trip be adversly affected.

I do think some of the media articles reported on the Egypt situation have blown it to portions of hysteria at times. Like another poster commented above those links were not your average tourists, rather that people wanting to immerse themselves in the local politics.

The question of whether one should go to Egypt or not at this time is deeply personal and has been the subject of some hot discussions on this site since the revolution last year.

Each traveler has their own 'profile' with distinct and different tolerances for risk-taking, adventure-seeking, comfort and security, so the discussion often becomes quite subjective.

I went to Egypt for six days last June, at a time when many suggested that it was not safe - the US, UK and Canada for instance had travel advisories, as I believe they still do.

So I will not try to make the argument that it is safe, but I would never try to make the argument that NYC or Timbuktu is safer, either.

The only thing I can say is that my personal travel 'profile' (& my wife's) told us that we should be informed, vigilant and make the best plans to assure our security when we went, travelling with a recommended tour company.

We did ... we had no incident ... and we absolutely loved our visit.

As I've said many times: If you are waiting for Egypt to be perfectly safe before going ... you will never get there.

We routinely traveled throughout England and the UK during the bad days of the IRA with little concern. We have traveled in North Africa when things were not totally safe, been to places like Vietnam and Indonesia (when things were a bit unsettled) etc. However, our concern about Egypt would not be the people or demonstrations (you can normally avoid these) but the current Egyptian government. Although we are willing to take our chances with some unrest, we generally do not take our chances with a government who seems to have no consideration for tourists or international rules. The Egyptian government has seen fit to hold 43 hostages (including 19 Americans) who were all legally admitted to the country. Why? Because the current government has some problem with their politics? When governments start taking hostages on a whim, we stop going to those countries on a "whim." Will tourists going to Egypt be safe? Probably yes. But then again, if the govenment decides they want a few more hostages..........

Hank

Most recent US State Department information on Travel to Egypt:

http://egypt.usembassy.gov/wm020912.html

UK official Egypt Travel advice:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/middle-east-north-africa/egypt

US Travel to Sinai warning:

U.S. citizens who plan to visit the Sinai in spite of the persistent threat of terrorist attacks should exercise great caution. Travelers should remain alert to their surroundings and are reminded that crowded tourist areas have been the target of terrorist activities. Travelers should use caution when visiting destination resorts and hotels without significant physical setback and security procedures. U.S. citizens are encouraged to visit the U.S. Embassy in Cairo website for the most up-to-date security information.

Most recent US State Department information on Travel to Egypt:

 

http://egypt.usembassy.gov/wm020912.html

 

UK official Egypt Travel advice:

 

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/middle-east-north-africa/egypt

 

US Travel to Sinai warning:

 

U.S. citizens who plan to visit the Sinai in spite of the persistent threat of terrorist attacks should exercise great caution. Travelers should remain alert to their surroundings and are reminded that crowded tourist areas have been the target of terrorist activities. Travelers should use caution when visiting destination resorts and hotels without significant physical setback and security procedures. U.S. citizens are encouraged to visit the U.S. Embassy in Cairo website for the most up-to-date security information.

The first link you posted is not a US travel warning. It is an alert issued by the US Embassy in Cairo regarding a specific event, which has already passed.

This is the current US Travel Alert regarding Egypt:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_5602.html

For those not familiar, the US issues both Alerts and Warnings. An Alert is related to specific, short-term events in a specific country. A Warning is related to long-term issues/instabilities in a country.

Some countries have been under either an Alert or Warning for years and yet people continue to travel there (e.g., Mexico, Israel).

I feel Hank is right, though, in thinking Egypt's government is volatile at the moment. I'm not sure I'd call the NGO employees "hostages", perhaps "detainees" is a more accurate description. And cynically, why isn't the US kicking up a bit more fuss on this -- it leads one to suspect that perhaps all their activities weren't as above-board as they'd like us to believe.....

The first link you posted is not a US travel warning. It is an alert issued by the US Embassy in Cairo regarding a specific event, which has already passed.

 

This is the current US Travel Alert regarding Egypt:

 

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_5602.html

 

 

For those not familiar, the US issues both Alerts and Warnings. An Alert is related to specific, short-term events in a specific country. A Warning is related to long-term issues/instabilities in a country.

 

Some countries have been under either an Alert or Warning for years and yet people continue to travel there (e.g., Mexico, Israel).

 

I feel Hank is right, though, in thinking Egypt's government is volatile at the moment. I'm not sure I'd call the NGO employees "hostages", perhaps "detainees" is a more accurate description. And cynically, why isn't the US kicking up a bit more fuss on this -- it leads one to suspect that perhaps all their activities weren't as above-board as they'd like us to believe.....

I have the same suspicions as Cruisemom and I also don't jump to the default of automatically condemning a foreign government for detaining citizens of my country.

That being said, one incident does not a pattern make, nor does it show that there's any reason to believe that tourists are next to be 'targeted for detainment' by a government moving towards removing martial law.

I respect Hlitner's personal choice to avoid travel to Egypt and I would respect anyone's decision to avoid travel there on the basis of not wanting to go to a country where there is any political unrest. However, it would be hard indeed to argue that Egypt's track record in doing its utmost to protect its treasured tourist sites (and to protect its treasured tourists) isn't as good as any country's.

Azamara (owned by the RCCL) has decided to eliminate Egypt ports in October and November - see the message below:

"UPDATE - Azamara Journey - October and November Egypt Itinerary Changes

Due to continued unrest in Egypt, We have made changes to four (4) itineraries onboard the Azamara Journey in October and November of 2012 to eliminate Egypt ports.

LISTED BELOW ARE THE (CURRENT) AFFECTED AZAMARA JOURNEY VOYAGES:

 October 15-26, 2012/ 11 night-Holy Land & Egypt / Piraeus-Piraeus/ Itinerary change

 Oct 26 - Nov 5, 2012/ 10 night-Holy Land, Egypt & Suez Canal / Piraeus-Sokhna (Cairo) / Voyage cancelled - new itinerary shown below

 November 5-15, 2012/ 10 night-Red Sea: Sinai, Luxor, Petra & Eilat / Sokhna-Sokhna / Voyage cancelled - new itinerary shown below (NOTE- The decision whether this new voyage will still operate as a President's Voyage will be forthcoming.)

 November 15-29, 2012/ 14 night-Luxor & Petra to India / Sokhna-Mumbai/Bombay"

I'm wondering whether RCCL (and Celebrity) will do something similar?

Screwcork

We were in Egypt in November/December. We never felt the least bit unsafe, ONCE we got out of downtown Cairo. We stayed at the Hilton right on Tahrir Square. On our very first morning there, we receive an email "warning" from the U.S. State Dept. to avoid crowds & particularly Tahrir Square. So thinking we were "invincible" & we were the "exceptions", we immediately walked into Tahrir Square. We were there less than 10 minutes before fighting broke out & before we knew what was happening, we were being shot at & tear gassed!! Eight people died in that little melee. We literally ran for our lives. We hold no one responsible BUT OURSELVES for making such a stupid & careless decision. But once we got out of Cairo, we experienced nothing but kindness & love from the Egyptian people in every city we visited. We're just so depressed at the direction their country seems to be taking however. I do hope to return to Egypt, provided it doesn't follow the path of so meany other Middle Eastern countries. But it sure looks as if it may.

We're just so depressed at the direction their country seems to be taking however. I do hope to return to Egypt, provided it doesn't follow the path of so meany other Middle Eastern countries. But it sure looks as if it may.

I've just been in touch with the young tour guide who so joyfully took us through Cairo when we were there last June and he is still optimistic and full of hope for Egypt's future. He, like most other young people, are worried about this period of instability while the military hands the reins of power over to the democratically elected parliament. But he says that Egyptians are steadfast in their resolve to see Egypt become a better country.

I wish you could feel the spirit in his words.As long as there are young people who want what he wants, I think there is little chance that dictatorship or despotism will return to Egypt.

I believe that things will get better after the Presidential elections in May and so does my young friend. At least, he says, there is a better chance that someone will actually be listening to the will of the people from then and moving forward.

I'm a solo traveller on the NCL Jade's Holy Land cruise. It has 2 stops in Egypt and 2 stops in Israel. I'm a bit reserved about Egypt, but I do hope that the situation changes by the time my cruise comes around. Has anyone actually had a situation where the cruise line has changed the iternary and not gone to Egypt in the past? What would be alternatives?

I'm a solo traveller on the NCL Jade's Holy Land cruise. It has 2 stops in Egypt and 2 stops in Israel. I'm a bit reserved about Egypt, but I do hope that the situation changes by the time my cruise comes around. Has anyone actually had a situation where the cruise line has changed the iternary and not gone to Egypt in the past? What would be alternatives?

I asked Princess HQ the same question. They will try to find alternate ports (if & when available) or extra sea days. I think it will be sea days if the cancellation of the original port is on short term notice.

Theo

I'm a solo traveller on the NCL Jade's Holy Land cruise. It has 2 stops in Egypt and 2 stops in Israel. I'm a bit reserved about Egypt, but I do hope that the situation changes by the time my cruise comes around. Has anyone actually had a situation where the cruise line has changed the iternary and not gone to Egypt in the past? What would be alternatives?

That is exactly why my wife and I ended up travelling through Egypt on a six day overland tour. The 13-day RCI cruise we were originally booked on had cancelled the 2-day stop in Alexandria, replacing it with Istanbul, and gave passengers two weeks to decide what they were going to do: cancel or cruise. Luckily we found a concurrent seven-day cruise that would visit most of the other ports, allowing us to book the overland tour. Our flights had already been purchased.

Although the cruise lines do cancel ports without notice, the part that we didn't expect was the sudden shortened timeline to decide what to do. We normally would still have had a couple of months to decide before being locked in to the cruise, but their decision to give passengers only two weeks to decide after cancelling Alexandria was to protect themselves from a flood of cancellations. Not a very friendly practice but obviously good for business.

For us, Egypt was the principal reason we booked the original cruise. When it was cancelled, we were beyond disappointed and I was bound and determined to get there. Many other cruisers were satisfied with the replacement port. We were not prepared to let the cruise line predict for us whether Egypt was going to be safe, four months later. In effect, I took the decision out of their hands and kept it for myself, knowing that I could decide much sooner before the trip than they ever could.

I would suggest that, because of the continued disturbances in Egypt, travelers like us, who want to avoid the disappointment caused by a potential cancellation, should book their cruises but have a close look at alternatives in the event of cancellations.

We were booked for an NCL Jade cruise including Egypt in December last year. In response to concern about the election, NCL cut that and most other Egypt stops for the next six months. Fortunately we were able to scramble and get aboard the last Israel-Egypt cruise in October. We had a marvelous time including our time in Tahrir Square. The only times we felt unsafe were during our mad passages through insane Cairo traffic.

We travelled to Egypt independently about 4 years ago, when things were calm. I have to admit I have been to a lot of places in the world and I wouldn't say I felt unsafe, but uncomfortable at times, maybe me.... However I would not have missed the time we spent in Cairo for anything - I guess keep your eyes and ear open and your wits about you like you would anywhere.

I work in London and it can be as manic on a busy day as anywhere - but do agree with posts about traffic in Cairo - we have 4 bumps in our taxi from the airport - just little ones but part of the fun.

two guys tried to pickpocket my hubby (who had nothing in his pockets) during our cruise in Italy last summer, yet never experienced anything like that in Egypt - silly guys like I would let my hubby have any money ;)

My SIL and family are off to Egypt next week and they were there twice last year and had a ball of a time

I'm a solo traveller on the NCL Jade's Holy Land cruise. It has 2 stops in Egypt and 2 stops in Israel. I'm a bit reserved about Egypt, but I do hope that the situation changes by the time my cruise comes around. Has anyone actually had a situation where the cruise line has changed the iternary and not gone to Egypt in the past? What would be alternatives?

I was on the Jan 2011 NCL Jade when the government was really losing control of the company. Our ship was supposed to stay overnight in Alexandria, but after leaving Turkey, we were told we would be diverted and spend two nights docked in Istanbul. As things evolved on Sky TV, we certainly agreed with their decision. Istanbul, as it turned out, was the most interesting city I ever visited. My wife and I hope to see the Pyramids on the December 2012 NCL Jade cruise, but of course, are waiting to book until we see how things turn out this summer.