Timid divers in Grand Caymen and Cozumel

My wife, son and I are going on cruise end of March to these two islands (along with Jamaica) and want to get in the water. We are all certified and dove together 3 years ago (with my now deceased son). However on that trip my wife rolled off the boat and surfaced under the boat hitting her head. She was fine and dove again that week, but it's made her a little more apprehensive about diving. She already has trouble, but gets there with her ears. So last year on a cruise my son and I went diving, but my wife wasn't feeling well. However, we did a shore dive for the 1st time and it was great. The problem is now my son says he's scared of diving in the "middle of the ocean" and my wife likes the idea of a shore dive too!

So obviously it's not a problem to shore dive on Grand Cayman. However, we all have under 25 dives each and we want a guide. I emailed Sunset House and they said A guide was $50 PER PERSON. That seems outrageous to spend $150 for one guide on a shore dive. Am I being cheap? Do we need a guide/DM on a shore dive? We have snorkeled off shore on vacation before, so I think the dive should be ok, but my wife is nervous to dive without a DM. Also is either Sunset or Eden better with novice divers? Even without a guide, we probably need help making sure our rental equipment is all properly fitted and such. Is the reef at Sunset that much closer to the shore than Eden?

On Cozumel, it doesn't seem like shore diving is an option. If I can't get my family to dive with me, I'm thinking of diving while they snorkel. Somehow snorkeling in the middle of the ocean is fine :-) Does anyone have recommendations for a company that does both snorkeling and diving together?

Thanks in advance for any help!

My wife, son and I are going on cruise end of March to these two islands (along with Jamaica) and want to get in the water. We are all certified and dove together 3 years ago (with my now deceased son). However on that trip my wife rolled off the boat and surfaced under the boat hitting her head. She was fine and dove again that week, but it's made her a little more apprehensive about diving. She already has trouble, but gets there with her ears. So last year on a cruise my son and I went diving, but my wife wasn't feeling well. However, we did a shore dive for the 1st time and it was great. The problem is now my son says he's scared of diving in the "middle of the ocean" and my wife likes the idea of a shore dive too!

 

So obviously it's not a problem to shore dive on Grand Cayman. However, we all have under 25 dives each and we want a guide. I emailed Sunset House and they said A guide was $50 PER PERSON. That seems outrageous to spend $150 for one guide on a shore dive. Am I being cheap? Do we need a guide/DM on a shore dive? We have snorkeled off shore on vacation before, so I think the dive should be ok, but my wife is nervous to dive without a DM. Also is either Sunset or Eden better with novice divers? Even without a guide, we probably need help making sure our rental equipment is all properly fitted and such. Is the reef at Sunset that much closer to the shore than Eden?

 

On Cozumel, it doesn't seem like shore diving is an option. If I can't get my family to dive with me, I'm thinking of diving while they snorkel. Somehow snorkeling in the middle of the ocean is fine :-) Does anyone have recommendations for a company that does both snorkeling and diving together?

 

Thanks in advance for any help!

Grand Cayman:

While it isn't the answer you are looking for, only you and your wife can decide if you are comfortable enough to dive without a guide. It is one of those things that if you know you can do it on your own, you're probably okay. If you're not sure if you can do it on your own, you almost certainly can't.

From your statement about needing help making sure everything is ready to go, it sounds like a refresher dive somewhere might be a good idea, or even signing up for an Advanced Open Water class to get more familiarity with diving and the equipment.

One option might be to pay for the guide on the first dive to get you familiar with the area and help you get comfortable. If your navigation skills are even decent, you can then just rent tanks for the second dive and go it on your own. This way you are paying about $200 for three people for two dives. Not a terrible cost.

Cozumel:

While I don't doubt there are places that will take snorkelers and divers together, the two activities just don't mix in Cozumel. (IMO) Good diving sites don't make good snorkeling sites and vice versa. I don't find Cozumel to be great snorkeling just because there isn't much in the way of shallow water reefs. Everything worth seeing is further out and much deeper.

$50 per person for a guided dive does sound high. I'd ask for confirmation specifically from the dive shop manager as I've seen folks get some bad info from worker bee at the dive shop and when I asked the manager he said, "WHAAAATTTTTT?" Like a post about a year ago where Sunset told someone "we don't do discovery dives." I contacted the shop manager and he was very interested to get a name of the employee who said that! Start your e-mail with 'please pass to dive shop manager'

WRT to navigation and need for a guide. If you can read a compass it would be hard to get totally lost at either EDEN or Sunset .... from the entry point, you head straight west and find the reef and to return you head straight east . . . in both places if you are in 60 foot of water you are in a sand flat beyond the reef. In either place if you pop up, there is land to the east and open ocean to the west . . . the two places are not very far apart so your dive profile is similar, max depth is around 60 and you can have a very nice dive staying well above that.

At Eden you'll probably encounter more people on the reef, both divers and snorkelers; and probably more boat traffic as you are close to town and the tender landings. Since Sunset is a little farther away, fewer folks venture there and you often find yourself the only person on the site. Eden has more 'swim throughs' but no one says you have to go thru them. Sunset has the statue and sunken landing craft and their 'sea pool' provides and even more controlled entry point than usual for a nervous shore diver.

I have a number of dives at both locations but probably 5 at Sunset for every Eden as I've done a number of week long stays at Sunset, diving it every afternoon or night. It is a popular location for a person's first night dive due to the easy navigation. At night, you can see the glow of the lights at My Bar, always providing a beacon to shore, even while at 60 feet!

{editorial: one of the things I dislike about smaller dive boats is the sometimes need to do the 'back roll' entry. It just is not a skill many divers use often. A larger boat with a decent platform and enough stability to use it safely is easier for most folks . . . }

 

{editorial: one of the things I dislike about smaller dive boats is the sometimes need to do the 'back roll' entry. It just is not a skill many divers use often. A larger boat with a decent platform and enough stability to use it safely is easier for most folks . . . }

When I was still teaching, we built a backroll mockup that we could mount on the edge of the pool and would stick out over the edge. We had quite a few people very hesitant to make that roll. Then there would be people who get in line and want to do it again. My wife loves the back roll entry because she doesn't have to try and walk on a moving boat.

My wife, son and I are going on cruise end of March to these two islands (along with Jamaica) and want to get in the water. We are all certified and dove together 3 years ago (with my now deceased son). However on that trip my wife rolled off the boat and surfaced under the boat hitting her head. She was fine and dove again that week, but it's made her a little more apprehensive about diving. She already has trouble, but gets there with her ears. So last year on a cruise my son and I went diving, but my wife wasn't feeling well. However, we did a shore dive for the 1st time and it was great. The problem is now my son says he's scared of diving in the "middle of the ocean" and my wife likes the idea of a shore dive too!

 

So obviously it's not a problem to shore dive on Grand Cayman. However, we all have under 25 dives each and we want a guide. I emailed Sunset House and they said A guide was $50 PER PERSON. That seems outrageous to spend $150 for one guide on a shore dive. Am I being cheap? Do we need a guide/DM on a shore dive? We have snorkeled off shore on vacation before, so I think the dive should be ok, but my wife is nervous to dive without a DM. Also is either Sunset or Eden better with novice divers? Even without a guide, we probably need help making sure our rental equipment is all properly fitted and such. Is the reef at Sunset that much closer to the shore than Eden?

 

On Cozumel, it doesn't seem like shore diving is an option. If I can't get my family to dive with me, I'm thinking of diving while they snorkel. Somehow snorkeling in the middle of the ocean is fine :-) Does anyone have recommendations for a company that does both snorkeling and diving together?

 

Thanks in advance for any help!

Actually, $50pp does not seem outrageous for a shore dive. They are supplying your tanks and weights, as well as your safety.

If you are going on Carnival, I think I saw shore dive excursions as an option through them. (they use Don Foster's and dive right in front of the dive op). They have videos on their website, just google Don Foster's Grand Cayman.

In Cozumel, as the others have said, boat diving is the only way to go. The reefs are waaaaay out from shore, except for a few shallow ones, so you need to get on a boat to do any good diving. They will do one of the shallow dives as the second dive, probably Paradise Reef, which is right next to the cruise ship pier where Carnival docks. The first dive will be out on one of the deeper reefs. The dive op through Carnival is Sand Dollar (they do all the cruise ships) and they have bigger boats, so everyone will most likely do a giant stride entry. Backrolls are common in Cozumel only for small boats. My husband and I have over 200 dives in Cozumel and I must say you will LOVE it. It is fantastic diving.

We will be there in 2 weeks, diving with both dive ops on our cruise. I will have a report and photos and videos once I get back.

Thanks for all the replies so far!!!

Just to clarify, it was not $50/person to dive at Sunset, but $50/person to add a guide to our dive. It's around another $50 per person to rent the equipment and air.

I did send another email to Sunset, so hopefully I'll get a response to clarify.

Does anyone have any recommendations on dive operators in Cozumel who don't use the back roll? We have dived under 25 times each, but I have always booked independent operators who just happen to all have the boats were we need to back roll.

Thanks again for all the help!

did you price Eden Rock? It is on their price list

1 tank, full equipment, escorted US $70

2 tanks $110

Guide dives leave from our Scuba Diving Center at 9:00 AM 11:00 AM and 2:00 PM. Allow one and a half hours for a one tank dive and 3 hours for a two tank dive.

http://www.edenrockdive.com/guided_dives.html

And I checked Sunset and a guided dive IS listed as $50 US

http://www.sunsethouse.com/training/padi-certification-programs.htm

Yes, I have looked at both websites.

The main thing I'm trying to figure out is if I do 2 tanks at Sunset, it's seems to be $50/person for each guide per dive. Therefore Sunset is looking to cost around $450 for 2 tank guided dives, while Eden is $330.

Again, thanks for all the responses!

Cozumel.... as I said before, the backroll entry is for smaller boats. Most dive ops have those. Bigger boats will use the giant stride. The dive op that the cruise ships use, Sand Dollar, has all bigger boats to my knowledge.

You don't have to do a backroll on a smaller boat, you can go face first. That's how my husband, former Navy Seal and MSDT, always does it. For me, I have them throw my gear in the water and I suit up there. It's much easier on my back.

You don't have to do a backroll on a smaller boat, you can go face first. That's how my husband, former Navy Seal and MSDT, always does it. For me, I have them throw my gear in the water and I suit up there. It's much easier on my back.

there two problems with that...

first... the OP says she is afraid. I don't think getting in the water head first roll is going to happen.

second.... Cozumel is drift diving. They are not going to throw anyone's gear, or in this case their gear as rental, in the water as it will drift away.

Contact a local shop and do a refresher before you go. It's been 3 years since your wife was last in the water and a year since you and your son have been in. You'll have a chance to get used to the kit again, as well as practice back roll's off the side of the pool

for the record my comment about backroll has no application in this discussion

a) OP is inquiring about a Cayman Shore dive ....

b) in MANY MANY boat dives in Cayman AND Cozumel I have never been "required" to do a back roll entry - altho occasionally in Coz' it was 'allowed' as an option (I've seen very small boats in Coz where this might be required, but stay away from them personally)

btw - my major issue with the backroll is that typically less experienced divers rolled with no look first and ended up landing on top of another diver who had not yet cleared the area. . .

The refresher is a GOOD idea ... I missed the 3 year gap. When dd became interested in diving, I'd been out of the water for over 3 years. So we went to Sunset and I booked discovery dives for us both. And when we got there I explained that she was a first timer, and I was using the discovery as a refresher. Sunset now lists the discovery/refresher on the same line - $100 equipment included. If they would let you keep the gear for a second dive paying only for the second tank - and go alone since you were now familiar with the site, you'd be the same cost as Eden . . and have the benefit of the added training and attention in setting up the gear....

there two problems with that...

first... the OP says she is afraid. I don't think getting in the water head first roll is going to happen.

second.... Cozumel is drift diving. They are not going to throw anyone's gear, or in this case their gear as rental, in the water as it will drift away.

First, head first is not a roll dive. And, no, I wouldn't except a beginner to attempt it.

Second, they don't throw the gear in (there would be hell to pay if anyone ever threw my gear), the gear is handed to me after I have entered the water and signaled that I'm ready for it. I have done this many times on drift dives.

Actually, it sounds to me like the OP is too timid and inexperienced to be diving at this time on an excursion and should take a refresher course first.

I agree a Refresher before you leave would be a very good idea. For an inexperienced timid diver three years is to long without a refresher course. For an inexperienced diver one year is even questionable.

Many operators require dives within the last two years some are even going down to one.

In Cozumel the cruise line operator is Sand Dollar Sports and their main business is cruise lines and resorts. They have big boats (giant stride entry) and deal with new and inexperienced and vacation diver all the time.

I will go into the LDS and rent the pool for hour before I go on a winter trip just to get comfortable, have fun, and practice some skills. I have over 200 dives and am a DM but find that I enjoy the dives much more because I have had some recent practice and can relax more.

while very off topic

I have NO idea what is being described here

First, head first is not a roll dive. And, no, I wouldn't except a beginner to attempt it.

When I was first certified, a LONG time ago, we were taught the "Mike Nelson" entry ... from Sea Hunt fame. Front flip, landing tank down . . . I'm pretty sure NO agency does this one any more .... nor do they teach the over the head flip for donning your tank ... I still scare folks with that one on occasion . . .

so what is this one? Kneel on the bulwark and just roll to a face plant?

Curious minds want to know . . .

Again, thanks for all the replies.

Strange as it seems, the most economical option seems to be to take the cruise ships "Shore Dive" excursion. This is only $75 per person and includes the rental equipment and a guide. I emailed Don Foster's and they said we can just rent another tank for another dive if we want to off the shore. So it seems for $85 we'll get our rental gear, a guided dive and then we should be fine doing a second shore dive ourselves.

I'm leaving Cozumel open right now. My dream outcome would be my wife and son remember how much they love being underwater and will go on a 2 tank boat dive in Cozumel. Otherwise we'll wing it

Thank you all again for all the comments!

Don Foster is a long established name on Cayman who disappeared for a few years

their NEW location, as I recall, is 'tween Eden and Sunset . . .

you'll see similar dive profile to Eden or Sunset

I guess we overloaded you with answers

sorry 'bout that

http://www.donfosters.com/pages/diving_shore.php

while very off topic

 

I have NO idea what is being described here

 

First, head first is not a roll dive. And, no, I wouldn't except a beginner to attempt it.

 

When I was first certified, a LONG time ago, we were taught the "Mike Nelson" entry ... from Sea Hunt fame. Front flip, landing tank down . . . I'm pretty sure NO agency does this one any more .... nor do they teach the over the head flip for donning your tank ... I still scare folks with that one on occasion . . .

 

so what is this one? Kneel on the bulwark and just roll to a face plant?

 

Curious minds want to know . . .

He goes over the side pretty much like he's diving off the side of a pool. Headfirst entry, doesn't roll onto his back at all. It's not the Mike Nelson entry.

Ohhhhh Kayyyyyyy

it sounds dramatic . . .

is all I can say .....

Not at all, and he avoids hurting his bad knee by doing it that way. I've done it a couple times, too. It's actually rather fun to do it.

so's the Mike N . . . . fun that is ....

as a water safety instructor tho ... going in head first is a bad idea

neck injuries ! ! !

In my youth I would dive from a platform 8 feet above and 8 feet aside from the pool and keep my arms by my side for a head first entry ... impressive? or stupid?

I think I'll stick with a giant stride, which never seems to hurt my bad knee.

Having read through the thread, I have a few thoughts.

As an instructor, I teach a lot of update courses this time of year (people who haven't dove for a time, and now realize they need an update course for an upcoming trip). I wish I could get something like the original post on this thread from everyone that comes for an update course. The biggest value I can offer from the course is to address a diver's specific concerns that they're experience has given them. When a diver is in their Open Water course, everything is theoretical. Their concerns often turn out to be based on a misconception about diving picked up from TV, or something they heard. Once the new diver has some dives - as the OP and his family do - they have concerns based on reality. I spend the first part of every update class trying to draw EXACTLY that kind of information out of divers; "What things have happened to you diving that you weren't expecting, or you weren't prepared for in your Open Water course?"

Given the right instructor, I strongly believe an update course could help the OP's wife's concerns about entries; and certainly his son's concerns about boat dives (Sounds like he saw "The Abyss").

Harris

Denver, CO

so's the Mike N . . . . fun that is ....

 

as a water safety instructor tho ... going in head first is a bad idea

 

neck injuries ! ! !

 

In my youth I would dive from a platform 8 feet above and 8 feet aside from the pool and keep my arms by my side for a head first entry ... impressive? or stupid?

 

I think I'll stick with a giant stride, which never seems to hurt my bad knee.

Oh really, he's only been doing this for 43 years without incident. He knows what he is doing and what works for him. He only uses this entry when we're on a panga and there is no way to do a giant stride.

I would email or call Happy Fish who are located at The Lobster Pot in Grand Cayman. My sil recently did a dive with them, she was a solo and told me that she paid an extra $20 for a guide and she was very happy. She did a boat dive but I am sure they could accommodate shore dives.

When we were in Cayman, we were told by long time locals who dive that any of the Lobster Pot shops were good. My H dove with another operation when Happy Fish was full and was really, really happy.

When husband dove after years where he didn't dive, he took a refresher and said that it was well worth it. He was really happy.