Caution re Deposits at Milford Haven

My wife and I just finished a 14 day cruise on Holland America's Prinsendam to ports in Guernsey, Wales (Milford Haven), Liverpool, and Ireland. Due to bad weather we had what our captain called the Magical Mystery Tour with three ports canceled (St. Peter Port, Milford Haven, and Galway), one changed as to schedule (Dublin), and two added (Greenock and Belfast). HAL and our captain did a great job of salvaging the cruise. Kudos to them.I had made arrangements with a transport company in Milford Haven (I am not sure if I am allowed to name them, so I won't, for now) for a 16-passenger minibus to take our group of 10 to visit Carew Castle, Pembroke Castle, and St. David's Cathedral. A fellow cruiser on our cruise had also reserved a similar bus for her group of 11. We each made a £100 deposit. We first thought we might be able to make port so we arranged with the transport company for one large bus to accommodate both groups, but ultimately the captain made the call that it would be unsafe to travel to Milford Haven so we notified the transport company and requested that our deposits be refunded. The company refused, citing their no-refund policy. While we respect their right to establish policy, it is not a policy that is cruise-friendly. If the ship had been able to dock and we had for whatever reason canceled, fair enough. But when safety dictates that the port has to be canceled, the deposit should be returned. So a word of caution to anyone booking a minibus in Milford Haven for visits to the two castles and St. David's: your deposit will not be returned if the ship cannot dock. Fortunately for me the other couples in our group reimbursed me for their share of the deposit but that means there were five couples who are unfairly out £20 each.

Thanks for the warning. It pays to look at a company's cancellation policy before putting down a deposit. I think the companies that have more lenient policies (as in refunding your deposit if the ship doesn't dock) eventually prosper more than those that don't.

Thank you for the warning.

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To be honest I don't think it unreasonable to retain a deposit in these circumstances. The bus was available, and it was no fault of the bus company that the ship was unable to dock. They wouldn't have known this until the last minute so they lost a day's income from what is a very expensive vehicle.

I appreciate that it wasn't your fault either, but in the grand scheme of things a £20 deposit is hardly significant, so long as it was made clear at the point of booking.

It may be that in America, deposits are commonly refunded, but the whole point of a deposit is to guarantee a reservation. It is common in the UK for deposits to be non refundable.

It is immaterial to the company what the reasons are for cancelling. If they gave a refund, they would have to stand the loss and a lot of these companies are quite small. As Bob++ says, non refundable deposits are common in the UK but you will find this stated in their terms and conditions, so you can check before you book.

Incidentally, it's not just UK tour companies that have refund policies that are not universally popular. I don't know about other cruise lines but with Princess if you book in the UK and then cancel, you don't get your deposit back however far out the cancellation is.

Sorry to hear that you lost out.

Sorry too that the tour operator lost out.

We all agree that nobody's at fault, so if the booking is frustrated by circumstances at the last minute it's gonna impact unfairly on one side or the other or both.

With you losing your deposit and the operators losing the rest, it's the operators who'll be losing most because they'll have turned down work from other directions, and their vehicle & staff will be lying idle. They'll lose the entire fee bar your deposit and the gas that they won't be using, but all you're losing is a tenner a-piece.

In practically every hotel & motel in the States, just the same as elsewhere in the world, the customer loses the entire cost of their accommodation for at least the first night if they fail to show at short notice. And they can fail to show for myriad reasons beyond their control. Should the hotel lose out because the customer was hospitalised or their rental car broke down en-route or a dozen equally-valid reasons - including their ship failing to port on the due day.

I don't see your circumstances as any different, other than that the failure to port is easily verifiable..

It's always important to check out cancellation terms.

Yes, there are operators who'll refund if the ship doesn't port, but they'll have to make up the shortfall somehow such as higher rates or sending freelance drivers home unpaid - that's happened to me more than once, lost me a lot more than £10 a time but was a risk I had agreed to take.

It's not against Cruise Critic rules to name the operator, but most have a similar policy and your thread will hopefully make others aware of the risk. And they can check the reliability of the ports too, especially the tendered ones.

They may prefer to use an intermediary like cruisingexcursions, whose policy is to refund in the event of the ship not making port but who charge higher prices..

But just like paying a deposit when booking a cruise, the terms for most businesses in the UK & most of the world are that your deposit is at risk from the moment it is handed over.

I could never understand the US system of a full deposit refund if the customer chooses to cancel before final payment day.

I won't knock that policy, it's great for the customer - but why bother requiring a deposit if it's refundable on a whim?

Just MHO as always

JB :)

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Yes, it is the operators business decision. But we as consumers must ask and then make our decision.

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I want to thank Bob++, aquilegia, John Bull and others for their responses. I was not aware of normal business practice in the UK so that's a helpful perspective. And I agree that checking a company's stated policy with regard to deposits and refunds is important. To be honest, being ignorant of weather in that part of the world, it never crossed my mind that the ship wouldn't dock. In 15 cruises this is the first time we've encountered this situation. For what it's worth, the two of us who had organized the prospective tours and paid the deposits made phone calls and sent emails to the company to make sure they had as much advance notice as possible that we would not be able to dock, potentially giving them the possibility of using their transport for other clients. From what we had learned, the weather was so bad that their business was impacted irregardless of our situation.

We also had to cancel a pre-paid tour in Galway but that tour operator refunded our money without question. It probably helped that we toured with the same operator in Killybegs the day before we were expected in Galway and she refunded the Galway tour to us in cash. Bottom line, weather happens, it just happened to us in the form of severe storms hitting Wales and then a few days later the west coast of Ireland.

Final word on refunds, obviously if you book a HAL-sponsored shore excursion, your money will be refunded if the tour is canceled. Something to think about.

Final word on refunds, obviously if you book a HAL-sponsored shore excursion, your money will be refunded if the tour is canceled. Something to think about.

Everyone has their own level of risk tolerance, of course - but it does help to bear the numbers in mind when working out what's better value.

To be honest I don't think it unreasonable to retain a deposit in these circumstances. The bus was available, and it was no fault of the bus company that the ship was unable to dock. They wouldn't have known this until the last minute so they lost a day's income from what is a very expensive vehicle.

 

I appreciate that it wasn't your fault either, but in the grand scheme of things a £20 deposit is hardly significant, so long as it was made clear at the point of booking.

 

It may be that in America, deposits are commonly refunded, but the whole point of a deposit is to guarantee a reservation. It is common in the UK for deposits to be non refundable.

I agree with this but want to point out that in the USA the deposit would not have been refunded either, and in many case you would still be responsible for the entire amount of the booking.

Some insurance policies will cover shore excursions too, like Allianz. If you purchased an independent insurance policy, you may have that loss covered. Good to remind everyone that it pays to read the company's deposit policies before booking.

Interesting observations from the various responses. What it does remind me of is the risk one takes when organizing a private excursion. Those who say "I'm in" on a roll call need to understand that they will share in the risk of the one making the deposit on the group's behalf. In my case I was fortunate in that everyone in my group accepted their share of the risk but that may not always be the case. On our cruise we had private shore excursions, either ones I organized or were organized by someone else, in Milford Haven, Liverpool, Killybegs, Galway, Bantry and Waterford and the only one that had a no refund on deposit or payment policy was in Milford Haven, so it's hard to generalize what might be common practice. I suspect those tour operators who get a major portion of their business from cruise ship passengers have more liberal policies.

Sorry but feel this is reasonable, and in UK normal practice. The bus would not do another trip, diesel would be bought and the driver/guide have to be paid, equally parking permits for sites may have been paid up front.

It illustrates the dangers of private tours especially in ports like Milford Haven, well off the main tourist trail, where companies would shell out in advance. After wages etc I doubt that the tour company would break even either.

I want to thank Bob++, aquilegia, John Bull and others for their responses. I was not aware of normal business practice in the UK so that's a helpful perspective. And I agree that checking a company's stated policy with regard to deposits and refunds is important. To be honest, being ignorant of weather in that part of the world, it never crossed my mind that the ship wouldn't dock. In 15 cruises this is the first time we've encountered this situation. For what it's worth, the two of us who had organized the prospective tours and paid the deposits made phone calls and sent emails to the company to make sure they had as much advance notice as possible that we would not be able to dock, potentially giving them the possibility of using their transport for other clients. From what we had learned, the weather was so bad that their business was impacted irregardless of our situation.

We also had to cancel a pre-paid tour in Galway but that tour operator refunded our money without question. It probably helped that we toured with the same operator in Killybegs the day before we were expected in Galway and she refunded the Galway tour to us in cash. Bottom line, weather happens, it just happened to us in the form of severe storms hitting Wales and then a few days later the west coast of Ireland.

Final word on refunds, obviously if you book a HAL-sponsored shore excursion, your money will be refunded if the tour is canceled. Something to think about.

This itinerary sounds similar to our cruise next year.

Yikes on the failure to tender. When I researched it seemed like most of the tender ports except one were do-able.

Would you mind if I asked what time of the year you cruised please? And the name of your tour company in Galway that you used in Killybegs?

thanks so much.

Kazu, our cruise was 03-17 June of this year. I would like to think the weather was unusual in how it affected our itinerary but I really don't have much local knowledge. The tour company we booked was Emerald Isle Tours for both Killybegs and Galway. Connie was very responsive and we thoroughly enjoyed our day touring with her in Killybegs. We would highly recommend her.

Dennis

Kazu, our cruise was 03-17 June of this year. I would like to think the weather was unusual in how it affected our itinerary but I really don't have much local knowledge. The tour company we booked was Emerald Isle Tours for both Killybegs and Galway. Connie was very responsive and we thoroughly enjoyed our day touring with her in Killybegs. We would highly recommend her.

Dennis

Thanks very much Dennis.

I really appreciate thei information. :):D

We were also on the Prinsendam and missed the tour at Milford Haven described above. We have also set up tours for Cruise Critic folks in many other ports and have never had a problem with refunds of deposits. The point is, if you are going to Milford Haven, be aware that Narbeth Mini bus Tours will not return your deposit if your ship misses the port for any reason. Milford Haven is a tender port and no Captain is going to take the risk of launching tenders if the weather could cause injuries passengers boarding or off loading from these small boats...Just a caution to other Cruise Critic folks visiting Milford Haven...

John Hildebrandt Palm Coast, FL

I have arranged private tours for Cruise Critic groups in many countries around the world & I always ask "will our deposit be refunded if the ship or tender is unable to get to the port". I have never had a tour operator say anything but if you can't get here we will refund your deposit. This includes 2 tours in the UK.

The situation encountered is a good reminder to always check cancellation policies and kudos to those on your tour who paid you their portion of the lost deposit.