Tips/Hotel/Gratuity Charges (MERGED)

Dear Mr Shanks
Does The daily Gratuity Charge actually go to the staff as extra to their wages ?.
Would it be more beneficial to the staff to deduct the daily gratuity charge and hand them tips personally ?

There is a great deal of discussion on this forum about the distribution of the daily auto-tip that is deducted from passengers. Could you kindly put this matter to bed and tell us how the sum is divided and between which members of crew. I don't expect a $ figure but a percentage breakdown would be very welcome. It is believed that if the auto-tip is removed and cash is handed directly to a crew member that he must remit that cash to his supervisor or risk non-renewal of his contract. If you are unable to do this could you please explain why. Thanks.

Capn had a great question and I'm curious to hear the response to that. Overall - I've always been a little perplexed by the expectations around tipping. I know the autocharges are on my account, and my assumption is that it goes to the right people at the right proportions. That is, the steward and dining room staff. There's also the 15% tip added to every beverage or bottle of wine purchased. There's also the expectation that we tip extra, beyond the auto charge, for good service. This is even outlined in Cunard's literature. There's a general sense of being made to feel like a heel or a cheapo or subject to inferior service for the rest of the voyage if tipping on one-off occasions is not done. Why not increase the auto charge, and forbid all other tipping, or, just leave the tipping up to the passengers and remove the autocharge system? I leave the auto charge on, and tip individually, but I can't help but feel that I'm being guilted into tipping twice.

Have you considered having an inclusive cruise price that would cover the set percentage charge that is asked and as a follow up question do the salaries of your lowest paid employees comply with minimum wage levels or do they need these 'tips' to earn an acceptable wage?

Every cent of the gratuities collected go to our staff. We have a 'pool' system and it is shared out amongst all the staff who look after our guests, we believe it is fair and we are thankful to those guests who pay their gratuities. Personally - wherever I am in the world - I always recognise good service. I believe that every member of our ship's company is dedicated to looking after our guests and our White Star Service is really very good indeed. So to ask for a daily gratuity amount from our guests is justified. At the same time - it is not a compulsory charge - and if any of our guests are not happy with any element of the service then they are free to adjust the gratuity payment. I wuld just ask that everybody gives some time to experience the level of service before taking any decision to reduce the amount they pay. Peter

[quote name='Peter Shanks']Every cent of the gratuities collected go to our staff. We have a 'pool' system and it is shared out amongst all the staff who look after our guests, we believe it is fair and we are thankful to those guests who pay their gratuities. Personally - wherever I am in the world - I always recognise good service. I believe that every member of our ship's company is dedicated to looking after our guests and our White Star Service is really very good indeed. So to ask for a daily gratuity amount from our guests is justified. At the same time - it is not a compulsory charge - and if any of our guests are not happy with any element of the service then they are free to adjust the gratuity payment. I wuld just ask that everybody gives some time to experience the level of service before taking any decision to reduce the amount they pay. Peter[/quote]

Thank you for your answer but could you kindly answer this part of my question which seems to have slipped by you. " It is believed that if the auto-tip is removed and cash is handed directly to a crew member that he must remit that cash to his supervisor or risk non-renewal of his contract. If you are unable to do this could you please explain why."
Thanks.

[quote name='babine']Capn had a great question and I'm curious to hear the response to that. Overall - I've always been a little perplexed by the expectations around tipping. I know the autocharges are on my account, and my assumption is that it goes to the right people at the right proportions. That is, the steward and dining room staff. There's also the 15% tip added to every beverage or bottle of wine purchased. There's also the expectation that we tip extra, beyond the auto charge, for good service. This is even outlined in Cunard's literature. There's a general sense of being made to feel like a heel or a cheapo or subject to inferior service for the rest of the voyage if tipping on one-off occasions is not done. Why not increase the auto charge, and forbid all other tipping, or, just leave the tipping up to the passengers and remove the autocharge system? I leave the auto charge on, and tip individually, but I can't help but feel that I'm being guilted into tipping twice.[/QUOTE]

i am new to cruising and this is one of my most pondered question ... if i pay gratuities on my daily account and 15% compulsary on the bar tab .... why do i need to pay a cash tip on top of this????? if i remove the daily gratuity and pay those who give me good service directly i am missing those behind the scenes ..... maybe not if they have to pay the cash into a pool ... i am confused!!

Dear Irelandhere - we believe the fairest way is to support the automatic daily gratuity charge amount that appears on your folio. That way the amount is distributed fairly amongst all those that support you - that is your waiters and bedroom stewards but also their colleagues who work so hard behind the scenes. The fact is you have a choice - nothing is compulsory. Some guests prefer to tip just those who look after them, some prefer just to work with the gratuity scheme. Some people find it akward as well - another reason why our gratuity scheme - which most cruise lines operate - is we believe the fairest way of all. Best Regards. Peter

[FONT=Verdana]“,,,So to ask for a daily gratuity amount from our guests is justified. At the same time - it is not a compulsory charge - and if any of our guests are not happy with any element of the service then they are free to adjust the gratuity payment”.[/FONT]

[COLOR=#0033cc][FONT=Verdana]If a gratuity is voluntary, and guests can decide whether they pay them or not, or indeed give additional amounts to individuals, why do you think Cunard (or any other cruise line) has a right to automatically include gratuities on a guest’s bill, thereby involving an ‘opt out’ should the guest feel that they want to show their gratitude to staff in their own way, or whatever else they might wish to do. Surely if you are correct in saying all gratuities are pooled, then why not just place a box at the Pursar’s Desk where guests can place the amount they feel is right for them and the money collected can still be pooled. This way the onus is on the guest to decide how much they pay and not Cunard. I do believe most guests would generally leave more than the daily amount levied, but what I really do not like is someone else telling me how much of my money I will give, with no regard to my opinion on the matter.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[FONT=Verdana]“I would just ask that everybody gives some time to experience the level of service before taking any decision to reduce the amount they pay”[/FONT]

[COLOR=#0033cc][FONT=Verdana]Again, most people choose to pay gratuities at the end of a trip, so I think the majority of guests do take into account their experience of the levels of service they have experienced and have no problems with leaving a fair and reasonable tip. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=blue]I should be grateful if you would also answer Capt Pugwash's question about those tiips given to individuals. Many thanks[/COLOR]

Mr Shanks, without wishing to keep asking the same question I notice that you've chosen to ignore or not answer my question so I will ask it for a third time.

" It is believed that if the auto-tip is removed and cash is handed directly to a crew member that he must remit that cash to his supervisor or risk non-renewal of his contract. [B][U]If you are unable to do this could you please explain why."[/U][/B]
Thanks.

[QUOTE=Peter Shanks; - we believe the fairest way is to support the automatic daily gratuity charge amount that appears on your folio. [/QUOTE]

Clearly this is not the fairest way, when any guest who so wishes can ask for the charge to be removed. In fact the present system seems to be the most unfair one possible.

There may be an idea that Cunard cruises would appear overpriced if gratuities were added to the cruise price, but people, and this is most of us shop around and are quite capable of working out the added value of an inclusive price.

David.

[quote name='capnpugwash']Mr Shanks, without wishing to keep asking the same question I notice that you've chosen to ignore or not answer my question so I will ask it for a third time.

" It is believed that if the auto-tip is removed and cash is handed directly to a crew member that he must remit that cash to his supervisor or risk non-renewal of his contract. [B][U]If you are unable to do this could you please explain why."[/U][/B]
Thanks.[/quote]


Peter Shanks, I am also looking forward to your direct response to the question posed by capnpugwash. Regards, -S.

[quote name='balf']Clearly this is not the fairest way, when any guest who so wishes can ask for the charge to be removed. In fact the present system seems to be the most unfair one possible.

There may be an idea that Cunard cruises would appear overpriced if gratuities were added to the cruise price, but people, and this is most of us shop around and are quite capable of working out the added value of an inclusive price.

David.[/quote]

I agree - the present system is not fair. Passengers are given the option of removing the auto hotel and dining charge, and some do - while others tip to over-compensate, knowing that there are those who do not. There is little equity and dignity in such a system - for either passengers or crew.

[quote name='Salacia']I agree - the present system is not fair. Passengers are given the option of removing the auto hotel and dining charge, and some do - while others tip to over-compensate, knowing that there are those who do not. There is little equity and dignity in such a system - for either passengers or crew.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I overtip and quite resent it when, on the last two days of the crossing on the Queen Mary 2, I see the lines at the Purser to remove auto-tipping.

I have heard, "We English do not tip." My reply is, "You know when you are getting services for which you are not paying."

I have heard that P&O removed tipping in Australia. Cunard should do the same. Pay the staff a decent wage and charge accordingly. Tipping is from a bygone age of colonialism. It is degrading to people.

Can we assume Mr shanks has left the building and we can now openly debate these interesting topics?

If the rules are still in force then PLEASE remove this post..

I agree with what is being said regarding paying a fair wage for a fair day's work.

Without these tips or gratuities then the staff are being paid an embarrassing and if the ship was UK flagged.. Illegal wage!

With the tips, then if the monies went to the individuals, they would be getting a very attractive salary although we do have to remember they may well work longer hours than most hotel staff?? (question)

I am your typical stereo type Englishman that begrudges tipping folks for just doing their job BUT and this is a big BUTT.... I also do NOT believe in taking advantage of folks and by withdrawing from the gratuity allocation and not paying an equivalent or more funding then are we guilty of taking advantage of these very hard working, dedicated people that carry out excellent work, sometimes under very arduous conditions.

As I keep saying, at present I simply add the cost of the gratuity to the cost of the cruise and then use that as my cost for the cruise. I would like to see this simple piece of arithmetic removed from the whole saga of choosing a cruise.

A number of companies are going 'All inclusive' so could Cunard please consider this?

To those that opt out of 'tipping' and do not hand over a similar amount, then shame on you as you are not punishing Cunard, you are not making any type of stance, you are simply taking advantage of someone that cannot answer back. Why not tell them at the start of the cruise that you are not going to give them this gratuity and you expect them to clean up after you free gratis? (These points do not apply to those that give more than the required amounts)

John

[quote name='glojo']

Without these tips or gratuities then the staff are being paid an embarrassing and if the ship was UK flagged.. Illegal wage!

[/QUOTE]

How do you know this?

David

[quote name='capnpugwash']Mr Shanks, without wishing to keep asking the same question I notice that you've chosen to ignore or not answer my question so I will ask it for a third .[/QUOTE]

Captain, Jeremy Paxman asked Michael Howard the same question 12 times, I fear you are not likely to beat that.

David.

Capn - Methinks you can repeat your question until you are blue in the face but I doubt that it will be answered.

Of the replies I have read from Mr Shanks they seem to be rather vague and not always to the point. Mr Shanks would earn much more respect here if he answered truthfully and honestly and informed us if he does not know the answers rather than just ignoring the questions.

I must admit I have not read all the replies as I have been disappointed by those I have read and do not have the patience to continue reading more corporate speak. Some people can speak for quite a while without actually saying anything of relevance. I will now duck.

[quote name='balf']How do you know this?

David[/quote]I read an article in the Daily Telegraph that highlighted their wage.

Do you know something to the contrary?

[quote name='glojo']I read an article in the Daily Telegraph that highlighted their wage.

Do you know something to the contrary?[/QUOTE]

No I don't, do you have a link to it, I would like to read it.

David.

[quote name='balf']No I don't, do you have a link to it, I would like to read it.

David.[/quote]:)Ouch... No it was a newspaper article, sorry.

[quote name='glojo']:)Ouch... No it was a newspaper article, sorry.[/QUOTE]

You see, this is one subject that keeps coming up here. There are all sorts of figures quoted for what the hotel staff get paid. I still don't think anyone has found out for certain. The general average figure quoted is around $3000 PCM for a waiter including tips, on which we are not any wiser now than before Mr Shanks paid us a visit.

Remember that the figure, whatever it is, is tax free and accommodation and food is provided. It may well be that many in our country are living on far less net income.

David.

[quote name='balf']You see, this is one subject that keeps coming up here. There are all sorts of figures quoted for what the hotel staff get paid. I still don't think anyone has found out for certain. The general average figure quoted is around $3000 PCM for a waiter including tips, on which we are not any wiser now than before Mr Shanks paid us a visit.

Remember that the figure, whatever it is, is tax free and accommodation and food is provided. It may well be that many in our country are living on far less net income.

David.[/quote]
Did you watch the Channel 4 documentary which featured a journalist that went undercover as a waiter?

If the wages were as you claim which contradicts big time the Daily Telegraph article I read then I have one simple question.

Why are the great majority of waiters\stewards\cleaners from countries where the average monthly wage is a pittance where are the unemployed UK waiters? I have no reason to disbelief the newspaper article I read nor the TV documentary which made similar allegations.

Here you go

[URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/04/ian-jack-cruise-ship-pay"]Click[/URL]

I accept that prising money out of a Scotsman is comparable to striking a match on jelly but who knows..... One day percy pongo might buy a round of drinks!! :D

[quote name='glojo']

Why are the great majority of waiters\stewards\cleaners from countries where the average monthly wage is a pittance where are the unemployed UK waiters?
Here you go

[[/QUOTE]

Unfortunatly the British workforce does not nowadays regard waiting on as a suitable job for them, so I would not expect to find any working on cruise ships. Also cruise lines tend to recruite from particular areas: P&O employ Indians from Goa and almost invariably the security staff will be from the Philipines.

I am always wary of undercover exposies on tv and in papers. The fact is we do not know the answer to this question and Mr Shanks made it quite clear that he did not wish to reveal all. But, the staff on Cunard ships and all the others I have sailed have never given the impression of being unhappy to be working there, although the worst part of the job for many is being away from home for long periods. And you will often notice staff returning from port shopping trips laden with bags, often from leading retailers. And why not, but I do not believe they do so badly, with Cunard anyway.

David.

[quote name='balf']Unfortunatly the British workforce does not nowadays regard waiting on as a suitable job for them, so I would not expect to find any working on cruise ships. Also cruise lines tend to recruite from particular areas: P&O employ Indians from Goa and almost invariably the security staff will be from the Philipines.

I am always wary of undercover exposies on tv and in papers. The fact is we do not know the answer to this question and Mr Shanks made it quite clear that he did not wish to reveal all. But, the staff on Cunard ships and all the others I have sailed have never given the impression of being unhappy to be working there, although the worst part of the job for many is being away from home for long periods. And you will often notice staff returning from port shopping trips laden with bags, often from leading retailers. And why not, but I do not believe they do so badly, with Cunard anyway.

David.[/quote]

Talk about making blanket statements..

[QUOTE]
Unfortunatly the British workforce does not nowadays regard waiting on as a suitable job for them
[/QUOTE]

What a complete and utter load of tosh... I am saying this with the greatest of respect and biting my lip as I type

Yes some parts of our once greta country does still have an industry base and no doubt some very nice jobs to go with them BUT... Down here in the West Country the holiday industry is the ONLY employment that most folks will ever aspire to. Here in Torquay I can assure you the British workforce is the main nationality that works within the hotel industry, they would love to work on cruise ships but the base salary is a HUGE turn-off. we can put our heads in the sand and try putting up a smoke screen but as a youngster working in grotty Torquay as a waiter, would you prefer that to working on a cruise ship travelling the world for the same salary? (minimum wage)

Just asked my daughter about this and lots of her friends are waitresses here in Torquay, a number have applied to numerous crise lines for work but the base salary was laughable. I tried getting figures but my daughter simply says she never asked. Bottom line however is that none of them have left their minimum wage job here in Torquay.

Mr Shanks will understandably dodge this VERY emotive subject as it is possibly an unsavoury topic that would see folks getting quite emotive.