Norovirus rules ????

[A&L_Ont]

Originally Posted by ChevyCruiser

Ever lick your finger to turn a page in a book? Did you wash your hands before you did so? That's how easily norovirus can be introduced into your system.

Who used the stair handrail before you, door handle, elevator button and on and on and on.

Escalator hand rails are one of the worst. If you watch carefully on Oasis and Allure when you get on back on from shore there is a cleaning crew member who only cleans the escalator hand rails. He squirts a cleaner on a cloth and just stands there leaving it on the rail as it continues to move. They rotate from one rail to the others.

Andrew

[waterbug123]

Originally Posted by dz9yvr

Guess again, the CDC has specific guidelines for cruise ships

Yes, and they include following the instructions/suggestions of the ship's medical personnel, including quarantine. But I guess you continue to ignore that.

Originally Posted by ChevyCruiser

Ever lick your finger to turn a page in a book? Did you wash your hands before you did so? That's how easily norovirus can be introduced into your system.

A few more examples:
You wash your hands before sitting down in the dining room. You pick up a knife to butter your roll, but oops! The person who put the silverware out hadn't washed their hands quite well enough. Now the virus that was on the silverware is on your hands. You use your hands to eat the roll and the virus is now in your mouth.
Or you touch the handrail on the way to the pool, and then move your pool chair a little to the side. Of course, the last person to touch the rail or the pool chair had noro on their hands so you now it's on your hands. And when you wipe that little piece of lime pulp from the rim of your Corona bottle? Yep, noro in your mouth when you take the first sip.
And on and on. Sorry, but I always have to roll my eyes when people talk about washing their hands, because you really don't think about all the ways something can get on your hands AFTER your wash them, and all the ways that something on your hands can get in your mouth. Obviously, washing your hands is a huge step toward preventing the spread of norovirus, but it's hardly failsafe.

[ChevyCruiser]

Here's a link to an article with some good information about norovirus.

http://www.emetophobiahelp.org/norovirus.html

Here's a little cut and paste from the article that everyone should read:


Transmission

Norovirus is transmitted through the fecal-oral (feces meaning “stool” and oral meaning “mouth”) route. This means you have to "swallow" the virus particles contained in the feces or vomit of someone who has the virus. “Swallow” means to ingest it into your gastro-intestinal system which is through your mouth. You bite your nails, you lick your fingers, or you contaminate that hotdog bun with your hand and then eat it. It’s also possible that a food-handler with Norovirus touches your food (that isn’t cooked) with dirty hands and then you eat it. This is one form of “food poisoning.” You may contract Norovirus through uncooked shellfish. Raw sewage finds its way into the ocean and into the shellfish – mainly those eaten raw or steamed – oysters, mussels, clams.

When someone vomits outside of a closed-in room (such as a bathroom) the act of vomiting produces a mist or spray that can send airborne particles into the mouths and noses of anyone nearby. As well, vomit particles may land on all surfaces in a bathroom such as flusher handles, taps, counters, even toothbrushes or cups. These are highly contagious. Similarly, diapers and clothing with fecal matter are highly contagious. Cleanup immediately all surfaces with a bleach solution. Wear a mask.

The virus can be active outside a host (person) on surfaces such as counters, toilets, faucets, doorknobs and even clothing. It is unknown exactly how long the virus can live on such surfaces, as this depends on the number of viral particles, temperature, and the nature of the environment. Remember that you cannot catch it by just touching a doorknob. You would have to put your hand into your mouth. Therefore, hand-washing is imperative to prevention of transmission.

The main reason for all Norovirus outbreaks is poor hygiene, i.e., people defecating and not washing hands afterward, then contaminating surfaces or foods Note: Alcohol-based hand gels do not kill Norovirus

[dz9yvr]

Originally Posted by ChevyCruiser

Here's a link to an article with some good information about norovirus.

http://www.emetophobiahelp.org/norovirus.html

Here's a little cut and paste from the article that everyone should read:


Transmission

Norovirus is transmitted through the fecal-oral (feces meaning “stool” and oral meaning “mouth”) route. This means you have to "swallow" the virus particles contained in the feces or vomit of someone who has the virus. “Swallow” means to ingest it into your gastro-intestinal system which is through your mouth. You bite your nails, you lick your fingers, or you contaminate that hotdog bun with your hand and then eat it. It’s also possible that a food-handler with Norovirus touches your food (that isn’t cooked) with dirty hands and then you eat it. This is one form of “food poisoning.” You may contract Norovirus through uncooked shellfish. Raw sewage finds its way into the ocean and into the shellfish – mainly those eaten raw or steamed – oysters, mussels, clams.

When someone vomits outside of a closed-in room (such as a bathroom) the act of vomiting produces a mist or spray that can send airborne particles into the mouths and noses of anyone nearby. As well, vomit particles may land on all surfaces in a bathroom such as flusher handles, taps, counters, even toothbrushes or cups. These are highly contagious. Similarly, diapers and clothing with fecal matter are highly contagious. Cleanup immediately all surfaces with a bleach solution. Wear a mask.

The virus can be active outside a host (person) on surfaces such as counters, toilets, faucets, doorknobs and even clothing. It is unknown exactly how long the virus can live on such surfaces, as this depends on the number of viral particles, temperature, and the nature of the environment. Remember that you cannot catch it by just touching a doorknob. You would have to put your hand into your mouth. Therefore, hand-washing is imperative to prevention of transmission.

The main reason for all Norovirus outbreaks is poor hygiene, i.e., people defecating and not washing hands afterward, then contaminating surfaces or foods Note: Alcohol-based hand gels do not kill Norovirus

Finally some sanity to this discussion... hopedfully this will help educate many on CC. So when a person no longer has symptoms of vomiting and washes very well after they using the bathroom, they can go about their vacation without endangering other people. Add additional precuations of not using the buffet, avoiding contact with railings and elevator buttons and these people are not a threat to the lives and safety of the other passengers. If someone cannot follow these guidelines, perhaps they should stay in there cabin.

[IwannaGo Now]

While on a 2012 RCI Thanksgiving cruise I contracted what was either food poisoning, or Noro. I embarked Sunday morning, and Tuesday evening I took ill.....with typical nasty GI symptoms. I always am aware of good hygiene, but got sick for the first time in more than 20+ cruises. I reported it to the cabin steward, who said he had not been made aware of any outbreak, but quizzed me on my symptoms, and previous behavior, and suggested that I drink plenty of fluids, rest, and stay in the cabin. I continued being sick till Saturday....although the vomiting ceased after about 12 hours.
Room service would not stray from their menu....I would have loved broth, or hot cereal....but was refused, and traveling solo, was restricted to room service items....mostly nothing. It was the first cruise that I lost weight on..lol !
I wonder if I had reported the illness to the infirmary if I would have been treated differently?
I think that the cruise line doesn't have to report to the CDC, unless a certain percentage of passengers/crew become ill......so just wondering, maybe they don't want to really know if you're sick??

[Mahya]

Just a comment before I post an excellent article on Norovirus - which won't make any cruiser feel any better about how much cleaning is done within the few hours before a new cruise starts ......

My comment is about crew...I do believe the crew spreads the virus like mad- I have seen dining room servers sniveling and actually sneezing while serving - they are not paid well and I'm sure are afraid of losing a
day or more pay, therefore go on working even though sick - same thing at buffet...there was an outbreak on one cruise I was on and the servers at buffet were wearing gloves - the girl sneezed into her glove and was about to continue serving holding the handle of the utensil - my incredulous look at her stopped her - and she said " guess I better go change my gloves, huh?" ......(DUH YEAH!)

meanwhile here's a few pertinent lines from this Reuters article and the URL:

"John Harris, an expert on the virus at Britain's HPA, puts it simply: "Norovirus is very contagious and very unpleasant."
What makes this such a formidable enemy is its ability to evade death from cleaning and to survive long periods outside a human host. Scientists have found norovirus can remain alive and well for 12 hours on hard surfaces and up to 12 days on contaminated fabrics such as carpets and upholstery. In still water, it can survive for months, maybe even years."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8BU05N20121231

I recently sailed on the Independence which had had an outbreak just before my cruise - so I brought on a can of lysol and was spraying door knobs, tv remote, bathroom utilities etc......I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THE BEDSPREAD OR CARPET and I'm sure the ship doesn't clean the carpet in between sailings and it's doubtful if they change the bedspread in every cabin- otherwise we would be feeling the wet carpet when we got to our cabin..... does anyone know if they do change the bedspreads after each cruise ???
12 days on contaminated fabrics !!!
Wow.I never thought of spraying the bedspread - and one can of lysol certainly would not be enough to spray a carpet - but from previous advice about how far the contagion can projectile ....................

I'm thinking if at all possible, once a person finds out there has been a big outbreak on a particular cruiseship - they would be better off to cancel their cruise if insured, and wait a few cruises before boarding the same ship.

[styxfire]

What IS effective at killing the virus?
Are Lysol wipes effective?
Is ammonia?
Is bleach?
Somebody just posted that alcohol is not effective.

I'm pretty sure the staff doesn't clean all hand-touched surfaces in the 2 hours between cruise #1 disembarking and cruise #2 passengers boarding. Meaning, I doubt they have time to attend to every elevator button, every handrail, every doorknob (in every cabin and every bathroom and every deck), every menu, every salt/pepper shaker, every arm chair.

I suppose they attempt to wipe these surfaces AFTER a severe outbreak occurs, but I doubt it happens BEFORE.

Therefore, I'm becoming quite disgusted and alarmed about what I can do to protect myself immediately after boarding. Any advice?

[cruisnseas]

Originally Posted by styxfire

What IS effective at killing the virus?
Are Lysol wipes effective?
Is ammonia?
Is bleach?
Somebody just posted that alcohol is not effective.

I'm pretty sure the staff doesn't clean all hand-touched surfaces in the 2 hours between cruise #1 disembarking and cruise #2 passengers boarding. Meaning, I doubt they have time to attend to every elevator button, every handrail, every doorknob (in every cabin and every bathroom and every deck), every menu, every salt/pepper shaker, every arm chair.

I suppose they attempt to wipe these surfaces AFTER a severe outbreak occurs, but I doubt it happens BEFORE.

Therefore, I'm becoming quite disgusted and alarmed about what I can do to protect myself immediately after boarding. Any advice?

Wash your hands throroughly and frequently. Do not unnecessarily touch your face and if you show ANY symptoms, immediately report to the infirmary.

[styxfire]

I'm feeling a need to bring Lysol wipes with me (if they work) and wipe every inch of my room before any of us touch anything. Closet handles, TELEPHONE, tv remote, door handles, shower knobs. Uggh, I'm envisioning a cess pool of germs.

[dz9yvr]

Originally Posted by Mahya

My comment is about crew...I do believe the crew spreads the virus like mad- I have seen dining room servers sniveling and actually sneezing while serving - they are not paid well and I'm sure are afraid of losing a
day or more pay, therefore go on working even though sick - same thing at buffet...there was an outbreak on one cruise I was on and the servers at buffet were wearing gloves - the girl sneezed into her glove and was about to continue serving holding the handle of the utensil - my incredulous look at her stopped her - and she said " guess I better go change my gloves, huh?" ......(DUH YEAH!)

Two additional thoughts...
1) I think the hotels around the ports play a large role in the continuing spread of the virus. For instance, in Fort Lauderdale many cruisers on Allure will stay in hotels with returning Oasis passengrs (and up to seven other ships) for a night and often are exposed to a morning breakfast with returning Allure (as well as other ships) passengers arriving early at the hotel for the breakfast buffet. The hotels don't follow any of the Noro prevention cleaning or procedures. In addition the passengers are not following all of the hand wasking warnings from the ships. Maybe hotels need to limit their bookings to either outbound or returning guests.

2) I wonder how much RCCL really cares about preventing Noro if you are off the ship. For example on a recent Allure cruise, the ship followed all of the Noro prevention procedures, special cleaning, no self-service buffets, etc, for the 7 days of the cruise. However on Sunday morning as the pasengers are leaving the ship, they dropped all of the dining room Noro prevention procedures and all of the guests were serving themselves touching silverware, plates, serving tools, etc. If RCCL was really concerned about their passengers health, they would have continued the prevention procedures for another few hours. But since most of the pasengers are leaving the ship, I guess they don't care.

[suncityga]

Originally Posted by IwannaGo Now

Room service would not stray from their menu....I would have loved broth, or hot cereal....but was refused, and traveling solo, was restricted to room service items....mostly nothing. It was the first cruise that I lost weight on..lol !
I wonder if I had reported the illness to the infirmary if I would have been treated differently?
I think that the cruise line doesn't have to report to the CDC, unless a certain percentage of passengers/crew become ill......so just wondering, maybe they don't want to really know if you're sick??

In my experience... I did report to the clinic at 1:00 AM, got a shot and was asked to stay in my cabin for 24 hours (or until the symptoms went away). Some type of ship notification was issued because room service was very helpful in providing recommended meals, internet access was provided at no charge, free movies on the TV, and the cabin stewart did a special cleaning of the room the next day. My symptoms were gone by noon time, but I stayed in the cabin for 24 hours. I reported to the clinic by phone the next morning that I was fine.

My wife did not have any symptoms at any time and was allowed to go on her tour while I was quarantined.

[ChevyCruiser]

Originally Posted by styxfire

I'm feeling a need to bring Lysol wipes with me (if they work) and wipe every inch of my room before any of us touch anything. Closet handles, TELEPHONE, tv remote, door handles, shower knobs. Uggh, I'm envisioning a cess pool of germs.

You don't need to worry about disinfecting your environment, you'll never be able to do so. Just remember what I posted earlier:

Norovirus is transmitted through the fecal-oral (feces meaning “stool” and oral meaning “mouth”) route. This means you have to "swallow" the virus particles contained in the feces or vomit of someone who has the virus. “Swallow” means to ingest it into your gastro-intestinal system which is through your mouth. You bite your nails, you lick your fingers, or you contaminate that hotdog bun with your hand and then eat it

Fecal-oral route means that you need to keep the virus out of your mouth. Wash your hands, wash your hands, wash your hands. If you are unsure if your hands are clean, don't pick up food with your hands and then put it in your mouth. When you wash your hands in the restroom, DO NOT open the door with your bare hands on the way out. After you wash your hands for dinner, do not touch the handrail on your way to the MDR. If you manage to get from the restroom to the MDR table without touching door handles or stair rails, think about what you touched to pull your chair in and about that menu the waiter handed you. After you are all set and have handed the waiter the menu back, sanitize your hands with some hand sanitizer - hopefully one effective against noro.

Treat the world as contaminated and break the connection between the world and your mouth by keeping your hands clean.

[crisndeefromde]

And just to add.....knuckles and elbows....I don't put either on my face or in my mouth. they are my best friends on a ship...especially for the elevator buttons when others won't push the button for me.....

Just saying...and to those of you that can put your elbow in your mouth...God Bless you!

Lighten up......schools are rampant with the "stomach bug" right now...gessh it is norovirus...only gets the media attention when it's on a cruise ship.

Use papertowels or hit the handicap button when going in the restrooms...use those hips...its not rocket science...its about doing what you have to do to ensure your health! Even in every day!

Sing old macdonald at the sink....yep my daughter in law is a nicu nurse and has taught my granddaughter the same...God Bless her!

Happy New Year everyone and safe cruising!!!

[Elvis1209]

I came down with Noro on my Norway cruise last August on Brilliance. I did everything I was supposed to do,. sanitized my hands, washed them, etc. I still got it! There was no need to quarrantine me, I wasn't going anywhere! After 24 hours I was feeling all right, 48 hours I was back to normal. Not the way you want to spend your vacation, but if you have to be sick you might as well be sick on a cruise ship!

[TravelerThom]

Originally Posted by dz9yvr

If you get sick during the cruise, are you required to go to the ship's medical facility? Since there is nothing they can do to help, why go to the doctor? Do they quarantine anyone with possible symptoms?

Why you should go to the medical facility has been pretty well beaten to death, so I'll not go there. But the question was "are you required to go to the ship's medical facility?" The short answer is YES. When you signed the ship contract [required, or you are not allowed to board] you agreed to comply with the Guest Conduct Policy http://www.royalcaribbean.com/conten...uct_Policy.pdf which includes that you MUST advise the medical staff immediately of gastrointestinal illness, and that failure to MAY result in confinement [including a holding cell if necessary] and removal from the ship at the next port of call. I emphasize the word MAY, because I believe the ship does not want to go to the hassle of forceably confining and removing people, but I think they will do so if one insists on being argumentative. If you don't care what people think of you, being argumentative on CruiseCritic has no consequences [other than possibly being banned from posting]. Being argumentative on the ship can [and does] get you removed from the ship in a foreign country.

Selected portions of the Guest Conduct Policy say:
In the event you experience symptoms that indicate a gastrointestinal illness, such as diarrhea or vomiting, or know of someone experiencing these symptoms, you must advise the medical staff immediately. In addition, some gastrointestinal illnesses remain contagious up to 72 hours or more after symptoms subside; therefore, if you or someone you know experienced such an illness just prior to your cruise vacation, you must immediately notify the ship’s medical staff. This will permit the crew to take steps to reduce the chance that your illness will spread to others on the ship. Failure to immediately report a contagious illness to the ship’s medical staff, or to accurately describe its onset, greatly increases the likelihood the illness will spread to others and is a violation of this Guest Conduct Policy. In the event of a contagious illness, the ship’s crew will take steps to curtail its spread to other guests, including if necessary, steps set forth in the Consequences Section below.

Consequences
Failure to act in accordance with this policy, or if a guest's presence onboard creates a concern for safety or security, may result in:
· Intervention by Security, other management personnel, or law enforcement;
· Removal of certain onboard privileges, which may include being detained, quarantined or confined in a stateroom or holding cell;
· Confiscation of illegal/contraband/prohibited items (may be turned over to law enforcement authorities);
· Denial of boarding on the current or any future Royal Caribbean International cruise vacation;
· Reporting of incidents to government and law enforcement authorities for followon legal action;
· Removal from a ship at the next port of call. Guests removed from a Royal Caribbean International ship pursuant to this policy are responsible for their own accommodations and transportation home, at their expense. Documentation requirements for re-entry into the guest’s home country are also the responsibility of the guest.