Jump to content

Thomas Keller menu


Kevnzworld
 Share

Recommended Posts

I cannot imagine that if you ask they will not provide you with a regular wine glass.

 

I feel sure that they would, but am hoping that this slow rolling out of the menus and serving style, as well as teaching the staff how to cook and serve it, is also so that passengers can have some input. If most people did not like a particular aspect, perhaps the dishes or way of serving might be 'tweaked' before the complete article appears next spring? Or maybe Thomas Keller insists on doing everything his way?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am also an elderly Brit and have not heard of Keller of course, but having read all about this it is not appealing to me: neither the menu nor the "family serving" idea. That seems like a gimmick to me. However, in September '16 I will be investigating. Who knows. We might like the concept. J

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is that those of us here on CC are not "most people." Most people who sail have never heard of CC.

 

I was assuming and hoping that the F and B Manager etc. would be asking all those on board what they thought, although it would be good to think Head Office also read this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was assuming and hoping that the F and B Manager etc. would be asking all those on board what they thought, although it would be good to think Head Office also read this thread.

 

This thread is full of comments from people who have not yet tried the Keller concept on Seabourn.

 

And I should imagine that head office will be more interested in guest surveys than an internet message board.

 

I suspect that there will be those that like the Keller concept and those that don't. A bit like my feelings about Restaurant 2. I never really liked R2, but others did so that was okay. The great thing about Seabourn is that I had several other options to enjoy and R2 was not my only dining solution.

 

We will not really know if Keller is a hit or a miss until it has been in use for an extended period of time and there is sufficient guest feedback to form an opinion. For myself, I remain open minded and look forward to trying it out next March.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is full of comments from people who have not yet tried the Keller concept on Seabourn.

 

And I should imagine that head office will be more interested in guest surveys than an internet message board.

 

I suspect that there will be those that like the Keller concept and those that don't. A bit like my feelings about Restaurant 2. I never really liked R2, but others did so that was okay. The great thing about Seabourn is that I had several other options to enjoy and R2 was not my only dining solution.

 

We will not really know if Keller is a hit or a miss until it has been in use for an extended period of time and there is sufficient guest feedback to form an opinion. For myself, I remain open minded and look forward to trying it out next March.

 

Agree completely. This is all speculation at this point. People complaining about things they have not yet experienced. And even if someone does not like the TK menus they can eat elsewhere on the ship.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to admire SB for for their efforts to be somewhat innovative without being too extravagant in their goals. TK is a somewhat more restrained than many of the "nouveau cusine" crowd and I think his influence will be a positive one for SB. But more importantly SB is moving outside the stodgy box a bit which is not all bad. I am open-minded and hope others will be also. Not likely that anyone will have difficulty finding food which is excellent in one of the venues on board so there are always options. But I am excited to explore, as I do on all of my cruises.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to admire SB for for their efforts to be somewhat innovative without being too extravagant in their goals. TK is a somewhat more restrained than many of the "nouveau cusine" crowd and I think his influence will be a positive one for SB. But more importantly SB is moving outside the stodgy box a bit which is not all bad. I am open-minded and hope others will be also. Not likely that anyone will have difficulty finding food which is excellent in one of the venues on board so there are always options. But I am excited to explore, as I do on all of my cruises.

 

Again, I agree. How nice not to have another Italian or Steak House specialty restaurant!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am also an elderly Brit and have not heard of Keller of course, but having read all about this it is not appealing to me: neither the menu nor the "family serving" idea. That seems like a gimmick to me. However, in September '16 I will be investigating. Who knows. We might like the concept. J

 

Well don't hold your breath.

 

We are just off the Odyssey and I have to say the TK food was generally underwhelming except his Napa Burger that was rather splendid.

 

We had the TK menu twice in the restaurant and once family style in the Colonnade so we can't be accused of not persevering. The menu descriptions were interesting constructs that sadly served only to raise expections that were quickly dashed on tasting the food. Style over substance best describes the experience. We heard lots of complaints and returns of food to the kitchen ( one fatty lamb dish was a prime example ). And as for "family style", what families drink wine out of glass beakers? Ridiculous.

 

Think again Seabourn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just back from the Quest with several TK selections in the MDR. Not overly impressed. Seems all passengers were invited to the Colonnade over the course of our 20 days for the family style dinner. We were four who were well acquainted but would not have wanted to share that type of dinner with strangers. The food was good and familiar to Americans, perhaps not to others. Most surprising was the attire of the service staff in the Colonnade on the TK night--jeans and "Dickies" tops. We live in Fort Worth where Dickies are made and I can't imagine a restaurant, other than a truck stop, where servers would wear Dickies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most surprising was the attire of the service staff in the Colonnade on the TK night--jeans and "Dickies" tops. We live in Fort Worth where Dickies are made and I can't imagine a restaurant, other than a truck stop, where servers would wear Dickies.

 

As a resident of the 76107, I can think of several:

 

Thirteen Pies & sister AF+B (being retooled as The Porch

MASH'D

Tillman's (or whatever the new retooling is called)

Little Red Wasp

The Tavern (although I think they dress up more at sister restaurant Pacific Table)

And several other concepts in the hot development areas of W 7th and Magnolia.

Heck, even Reata wears boots and jeans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well don't hold your breath.

 

We are just off the Odyssey and I have to say the TK food was generally underwhelming except his Napa Burger that was rather splendid.

 

We had the TK menu twice in the restaurant and once family style in the Colonnade so we can't be accused of not persevering. The menu descriptions were interesting constructs that sadly served only to raise expections that were quickly dashed on tasting the food. Style over substance best describes the experience. We heard lots of complaints and returns of food to the kitchen ( one fatty lamb dish was a prime example ). And as for "family style", what families drink wine out of glass beakers? Ridiculous.

 

Think again Seabourn.

 

I've been waiting to read your feedback. We fly to Miami in one week to join the Odyssey for 20 days.

 

Great to read about the Napa burger!

Do you think that the main issue with the food being returned is that the ingredients aren't of high enough quality to match what TK would be doing on land? I was concerned about this from the start. I'm sure that TK uses absolutely top quality ingredients in his restaurants, but I'm not sure that Seabourn's food budget would run to that, and perhaps the ingredients are ok but not top notch.

Or maybe it just is that the execution of the dish isn't working. If so, that can be resolved quite easily.

Just musing really, I suppose.

Hope you enjoyed the cruise generally and were happy with the included wines.

 

If anyone has a photo of one of these "wine beakers" I'd be interested to see it.

We use both Riedel and Schott Zwiesel stemless wine glasses at home for informal dinners, I'm imagining something similar. They make washing far easier, and don't get knocked over easily, but some of the shapes are challenging for those of us with small hands. Also, they don't work for white wine at stand-up gatherings. Clutching the bowl of the glass warms the wine too much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MarionH and mljatsea - it is good to hear some feedback on TK. Were you asked specifically for your views on these meals, either on board or in your guest questionnaire, I wonder?

 

We weren't asked for any feedback onboard and nothing specifically about TK on the guest questionnaire.

 

Jenidallas--Dickies and jeans may work in Texas but seemed out of place on the ship. Perhaps OK when they served the TK rib dinner but they also wore them for the by-reservation Thanksgiving dinner in the Colonnade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't contribute to this thread previously because I didn't want to add to the wild guesses and misinformation, i.e. typical drama, on here... ;) But now that I've just finished 35 days on the Quest and experienced the roll-out (to-date) of TK dishes in the MDR and Colonnade, I thought I'd share my first hand observations and thoughts.

 

The TK dishes in the MDR are good. So far they've implemented 7 menus. After the team goes back to TK's facilities in Napa Valley (probably next Spring) for another round of train-the-trainer sessions, the goal is to implement another 7 menus, so that there'd be a total of 14 menus, meaning guests do not need to repeat a single TK dish in any 28-day period. (TK menu is only offered every other night, in addition to the regular menu, in the MDR.)

 

The TK menu in the MDR usually consists of 1 starter, 2 mains, and 1 dessert. Of the 2 mains, 1 is usually vegetarian. The starter is sometimes vegetarian, and the dessert is mostly vegetarian (except when it contains gelatin).

 

I said "usually" and "sometimes" because with TK's high quality standards, nothing is guaranteed. During the roll-out, some items were cancelled at the last minute, when the quality of the ingredients and/or the execution did not meet TK's exacting standards, which took quite a bit of effort for the SB chefs to master. In fact, I overheard a couple of them remarking about how difficult and time-consuming it's been, e.g. they have to use tweezers (instead of tongs) for the mise-en-plat.

 

The vegetarian dishes were quite good, as were the desserts. However, I've heard some complaints about the non-vegetarian dishes. Apparently TK's philosophy is slow cooking at low temperature, which supposedly results in better flavor and different texture, i.e. no searing or crusting, and some passengers complained about the texture of their meat. BTW, this is second hand knowledge, as I do not eat dead animal flesh. ;)

 

As for the Colonnade, so far they're rolled out two menus. There will be two more, at least, including the fried chicken dish that others had mentioned on this thread. That dish will, however, have to wait till after dry dock, as new equipment is required to fry/cook it. Quest will be the first to have the new equipment (I believe it's scheduled for dry dock next Mar/Apr.), followed by the Encore. Odyssey and Sojourn are not scheduled for dry dock till 2017/18.

 

I quite enjoyed both menus in the Colonnade but have to admit that the vegetarian mains were not that exciting: zucchini slices one night, and trumpet mushrooms another. However, the other three courses (salad, cheese/bread, and dessert) were all good, as was the country french bread. My dining companions quite enjoyed their meat dishes.

 

No issues with sharing tongs at our table of four. Nice to see wine poured into stemless glass tumblers - which has been done at so many trendy restaurants for so many years that I don't think it's trendy anymore. It's just something different.

 

And that's my verdict for the TK experience in the Colonnade: it's something different. New ambiance, new vibes, new food, featured as by-reservation only evenings, twice a week. Nobody is forced to partake in this; just go to any other dining venue if the menu or concept doesn't appeal. (For me or vegetarians in general, this is a plus, as I normally don't go to the Colonnade at night, with its weak vegetarian dishes, so this gives me an additional venue at night at times.)

 

One word about the attire - SB staff didn't necessarily wear the mostly all-black uniform that well. They look better in their usual uniform, IMHO. But that's a minor point that did in no way detract from the overall enjoyment of the meals.

Edited by sfvoyage
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jenidallas--Dickies and jeans may work in Texas but seemed out of place on the ship. Perhaps OK when they served the TK rib dinner but they also wore them for the by-reservation Thanksgiving dinner in the Colonnade.

 

But it's not just Texas... it's major trend in the industry around the farm-to-table, tail-to-snout style of dining.

 

It's not just Tecas. It's Ad Hoc and several other hot restaurants in N. California. It's Girl and the Goat in Chicago. It's Momofuku in NYC. It's Frenchie in Paris. I could go on and pick out dozens of other hot tables in cities around the globe.

 

Pick up Bon Appetit, Food and Wine, Travel and Leisure, Conde Nast Traveler - you'll see this in their pages.

 

I like the thought of Seabourn doing something that offers a different (and some might say "less stuffy") option to appeal to a different demographic... still interested in luxury and accustomed to high quality cuisine, but also recognizing that goodies and luxury fans come in many forms

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a resident of the 76107, I can think of several:

 

 

You don't even WANT to think about the dress code for servers at restaurants here in Austin - restaurants recognized as some of the best in the country.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But it's not just Texas... it's major trend in the industry around the farm-to-table, tail-to-snout style of dining.

 

It's not just Tecas. It's Ad Hoc and several other hot restaurants in N. California. It's Girl and the Goat in Chicago. It's Momofuku in NYC. It's Frenchie in Paris. I could go on and pick out dozens of other hot tables in cities around the globe.

 

Pick up Bon Appetit, Food and Wine, Travel and Leisure, Conde Nast Traveler - you'll see this in their pages.

 

I like the thought of Seabourn doing something that offers a different (and some might say "less stuffy") option to appeal to a different demographic... still interested in luxury and accustomed to high quality cuisine, but also recognizing that goodies and luxury fans come in many forms

 

And yet even at Bouchon you won't find Kellers staff dressed that casually (never mind the French Laundry or Per Se). It's only his "low-end"/retail places that you may find casual staff. If you're looking for something "less stuffy" there are lines to cater to that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And yet even at Bouchon you won't find Kellers staff dressed that casually (never mind the French Laundry or Per Se). It's only his "low-end"/retail places that you may find casual staff. If you're looking for something "less stuffy" there are lines to cater to that.

 

But they aren't trying to mimic French Laundry or Per Se or Bouchon. They are trying to mimic Ad Hoc - which is 100% Keller and where the staff dresses in the aforementioned casual attire.

 

Seabourn said they were bringing Thomas Keller to the ships - they didn't specify that it would be exclusively the highest end parts.

 

And I'm perfectly comfortable on Seabourn, thank you very much. And given that I've got MANY years of cruising life ahead of me, I am happy to see Seabourj evolving with the trends in travel that all sectors are embracing (from hotels to airlines to car services) to accommodate a new generation of travelers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sfvoyage,

 

Thanks for your detailed comments on the rollout of TK so far. The one thing I take away from this is that this is an ongoing situation and they are just starting to see what works and what doesn't. Why can't we all just give them the benefit of the doubt and wait a while to see the final results? As you said, no one is forced to eat his food. Plenty of other options.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sfvoyage, , no one is forced to eat his food. Plenty of other options.

 

Of course this is true. But many pax will be seduced by the hype and the prospect of experiencing fancy food from a much lauded Michelin starred chef's repertoire.

 

My own recent experience on Odyssey suggests that if things don't improve, they will be disappointed. One would have hoped that customer feedback would help inform Seabourn about the TK experience. However, there did not seem to be any mechanism on board for pax to provide such feedback - a pity. Or perhaps they are relying on anecdotal information from serving staff or monitoring the amount of food sent back to the kitchen. In any event it would be helpful for pax TK experience to continue to be shared through Cruise Critic.

 

As an aside, I was told that pictures of TK dishes are posted in the galley and dishes have to be compared with these to check compliance with TK standards before they are released to anticipating pax.

 

Although I was disappointed with my own experience of the current TK menus ( except the Napa burger), I would support continuing the experiment in the hope that by my next Seabourn cruise menus will have been refined.

Edited by MARIANH
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But they aren't trying to mimic French Laundry or Per Se or Bouchon. They are trying to mimic Ad Hoc - which is 100% Keller and where the staff dresses in the aforementioned casual attire.

 

Seabourn said they were bringing Thomas Keller to the ships - they didn't specify that it would be exclusively the highest end parts.

 

This from Seabourn's own press release: "In an ongoing quest to provide a world-class experience, Seabourn has created a partnership with world-renowned American chef and restaurateur Thomas Keller. The culinary genius behind a trio of Michelin-starred restaurants – The French Laundry, Per Se, and Bouchon – Chef Keller brings his award-winning French and American cuisine to the ultra-luxury cruise line adding new flavors and flair to complement Seabourn's already celebrated cuisine."

 

We somehow got the impression from what was written that we would be getting the highest end parts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But they aren't trying to mimic French Laundry or Per Se or Bouchon. They are trying to mimic Ad Hoc - which is 100% Keller and where the staff dresses in the aforementioned casual[/quote

 

Having just experienced TK on Odyssey, I have to say that you are incorrect.

 

It was only the family dining in the Collonade where servers dressed down.

 

The TK menus in the MDR were "mimicking" TK high end offerings. Servers were dressed in usual smart attire.

 

There seems to be much speculation on this thread from people who have not experienced the TK product on Seabourn ships. Probably best to wait for more feedback from Seabourn pax before jumping to conclusions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MarianH - I wonder if you might know whether the TK 'posher' food is to be served in the MDR, or perhaps in the Signatures restaurant in future, which I can only assume is restaurant 2 at present in the current ships - don't know where else it could be.

 

Casual eating and staff dressing down a bit in the Colonnade sounds fine to me, assuming the food is tasty.

 

I am sure the new concept is causing a lot of stress and hard work for the galley staff, and to some extent for servers, and it will take some time to get right. At least you 'guinea pigs' did not have to try it if you did not wish to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Welcome to Cruise Critic
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...