Passport... Maiden Name

[Lsimon]

Originally Posted by njhorseman

Lsimon:

Contrary to your claim, it's not all that unusual for women to use two names, one for professional purposes and one for social purposes. Perhaps you don't know many professional women, or perhaps you're just ignoring the women's rights movement of the last 50 years (Betty Friedan's "The Feminine Mystique" was published in 1963.)

I'll end this here.

Now wait a minute!! I never said I didn't think women had the right to use whatever names they wanted to. I don't see how you could possibly interpret anything I've said as indicating I don't believe in full rights for women - and if I did say something that inferred that then I mispoke and I apologize.

I don't really care what name someone uses as it would be an individual's right (man or woman) to use whatever name they want to.

But I do not know if anyone (man or woman) can maintain two "legal" names or even exactly what a legal name really is. From a common sense standpoint I seriously doubt if they can have two drivers licenses with different names or two passports with different names. If I am wrong on this last point and anyone is aware of a rule of law or regulation that provides a legal right to do so then I'd love to hear about it just as a matter of curiosity.

As for it not being unusual I guess I can only speak from experience. I'm 57 years old and worked in medium to small sized businesses for over 30 years, half of which as a senior executive. In all that time I did not personally know any woman who maintained two different names in either my personal or business life.

If for some reason my statement that it was unusual for someone to use two different names offends you then let me restate it to say that in my personal experience it was unusual. I certainly did not intend to offend anyone. Again I was just trying to be helpful.

[navybankerteacher]

Originally Posted by Lsimon

Now wait a minute!! I never said I didn't think women had the right to use whatever names they wanted to. I don't see how you could possibly interpret anything I've said as indicating I don't believe in full rights for women - and if I did say something that inferred that then I mispoke and I apologize.

I don't really care what name someone uses as it would be an individual's right (man or woman) to use whatever name they want to.

But I do not know if anyone (man or woman) can maintain two "legal" names or even exactly what a legal name really is. From a common sense standpoint I seriously doubt if they can have two drivers licenses with different names or two passports with different names. If I am wrong on this last point and anyone is aware of a rule of law or regulation that provides a legal right to do so then I'd love to hear about it just as a matter of curiosity.


As for it not being unusual I guess I can only speak from experience. I'm 57 years old and worked in medium to small sized businesses for over 30 years, half of which as a senior executive. In all that time I did not personally know any woman who maintained two different names in either my personal or business life.



If for some reason my statement that it was unusual for someone to use two different names offends you then let me restate it to say that in my personal experience it was unusual. I certainly did not intend to offend anyone. Again I was just trying to be helpful.

My wife has had a long career in residential real estate - when we married she kept her previous name for her real estate work - to change it would be to risk a lot of referral business. She also kept her old passport until it expired. Sure, one cannot have two Connecticut drivers licenses in different names - or two U S passports in different names, but she remained the person who held a validly issued U S passport, even though she followed social convention and assumed my name for most other purposes. As long as her reservations were made in the name on her passport, and she used that passport to board, she complied with the cruise lines requirements. Further, I do not believe the US Department of State has any published requirements that a person who marries and assumes her husband's name for social purposes must surrender her old passport.

[njhorseman]

Originally Posted by Lsimon

Now wait a minute!! I never said I didn't think women had the right to use whatever names they wanted to. I don't see how you could possibly interpret anything I've said as indicating I don't believe in full rights for women - and if I did say something that inferred that then I mispoke and I apologize.

I don't really care what name someone uses as it would be an individual's right (man or woman) to use whatever name they want to.

But I do not know if anyone (man or woman) can maintain two "legal" names or even exactly what a legal name really is. From a common sense standpoint I seriously doubt if they can have two drivers licenses with different names or two passports with different names. If I am wrong on this last point and anyone is aware of a rule of law or regulation that provides a legal right to do so then I'd love to hear about it just as a matter of curiosity.

As for it not being unusual I guess I can only speak from experience. I'm 57 years old and worked in medium to small sized businesses for over 30 years, half of which as a senior executive. In all that time I did not personally know any woman who maintained two different names in either my personal or business life.

If for some reason my statement that it was unusual for someone to use two different names offends you then let me restate it to say that in my personal experience it was unusual. I certainly did not intend to offend anyone. Again I was just trying to be helpful.

I was hoping to end the conversation but you seem intent on dragging me back in.

First, I wasn't suggesting you didn't believe in full or equal rights for women...I was suggesting you seem to be unaware of some societal/social changes that have developed over the last half century.


Second, I didn't say it was permissible for anyone to have two passports in two different names or two drivers licenses in two different names. But, there is nothing preventing someone from having their passport in a different name than their drivers license...again as long as it's not done to defraud or deceive.

My "common sense" tells me that it's big waste of money for someone to change the name on their passport when it has many years of validity remaining when there are no laws mandating the change within some specified time limit, or at all, for that matter. The problem with your "common sense" arguments is that they're not really "common sense", but are actually based on an underlying incorrect assumption that there must be laws lurking out there requiring these sorts of changes. Once you realize that those laws don't exist your argument fails to hold water. You have to distinguish between feeling/opinions and facts, and while you're entitled to your own feelings and opinions, you're not entitled to your own set of facts.

I'm both older than you and spent my business career in both very large corporations and as the owner/operator of several small business. My wife is a health care professional who has been in private practice for close to 4 decades. Particularly in academic and health care professional circles, women using one name professionally and one name socially is a very common phenomenon, but I had any number of business colleagues who also did this.

Anyway, I think it's long overdue to put this to rest.

[dwjoe]

Originally Posted by njhorseman

Lsimon:

Contrary to your claim, it's not all that unusual for women to use two names, one for professional purposes and one for social purposes. Perhaps you don't know many professional women, or perhaps you're just ignoring the women's rights movement of the last 50 years (Betty Friedan's "The Feminine Mystique" was published in 1963.)

You're off base, njhorseman.

This statement reads like you're accusing Lsimon of sexism, and nothing he says warrants that.

Lsimon's point is that it makes sense for a woman to keep all of her IDs consistent, in either married or maiden name, but not to mix and match. And I agree. No one is going to arrest you for it, and each ID will probably work fine on its own. But problems may arise if you're ever asked for a 2nd piece of ID, and the names don't match. Or if you need to use one ID to renew another, and the names don't match. I think it's a valid point to recommend that they be consistent. And I don't understand why you're being contentious over it.

[njhorseman]

Originally Posted by dwjoe

You're off base, njhorseman.

This statement reads like you're accusing Lsimon of sexism, and nothing he says warrants that.

Lsimon's point is that it makes sense for a woman to keep all of her IDs consistent, in either married or maiden name, but not to mix and match. And I agree. No one is going to arrest you for it, and each ID will probably work fine on its own. But problems may arise if you're ever asked for a 2nd piece of ID, and the names don't match. Or if you need to use one ID to renew another, and the names don't match. I think it's a valid point to recommend that they be consistent. And I don't understand why you're being contentious over it.

You're off base. Please read the second sentence of my subsequent post:

First, I wasn't suggesting you didn't believe in full or equal rights for women...I was suggesting you seem to be unaware of some societal/social changes that have developed over the last half century.

I can't ever recall being asked for a second form of ID anywhere in the US or elsewhere in the world at any time. Nor do I (or anyone else I know) ever carry my passport with me while in the US. It only comes out of my desk drawer when I'm about to make an international trip. And for that purpose it is the only ID you need.

I was being contentious because the poster was repeatedly insisting his argument was based on common sense, when if you read his posts carefully his arguments were really based on an incorrect assumption that there were laws requiring a person to change the name on their passport when they married.

By the way, by reopening this, you're also being contentious.

[tulsacubfan]

Originally Posted by navybankerteacher

My wife has had a long career in residential real estate - when we married she kept her previous name for her real estate work - to change it would be to risk a lot of referral business. She also kept her old passport until it expired. Sure, one cannot have two Connecticut drivers licenses in different names - or two U S passports in different names, but she remained the person who held a validly issued U S passport, even though she followed social convention and assumed my name for most other purposes. As long as her reservations were made in the name on her passport, and she used that passport to board, she complied with the cruise lines requirements. Further, I do not believe the US Department of State has any published requirements that a person who marries and assumes her husband's name for social purposes must surrender her old passport.

Navy Banker Teacher - did she maintain her previous name on social security, etc? Pretty much anything "legal" and used your name for, as you said, social purposes? This really is to answer my curiosity - nothing more.

[navybankerteacher]

Originally Posted by tulsacubfan

Navy Banker Teacher - did she maintain her previous name on social security, etc? Pretty much anything "legal" and used your name for, as you said, social purposes? This really is to answer my curiosity - nothing more.

No, for Social Security she submitted name change, which was appropriate as we file joint tax returns -- and her Schedule C indicates her maiden name as
"DBA" (doing business as). Her driver's license name was changed, so only her passport name and business name remained unchanged - really not that difficult a concept to grasp. A valid passport is just that: an ID for international travel, which does not become invalidated by marriage.

[tulsacubfan]

Originally Posted by navybankerteacher

No, for Social Security she submitted name change, which was appropriate as we file joint tax returns -- and her Schedule C indicates her maiden name as
"DBA" (doing business as). Her driver's license name was changed, so only her passport name and business name remained unchanged - really not that difficult a concept to grasp. A valid passport is just that: an ID for international travel, which does not become invalidated by marriage.

Thanks! I was really wondering about the Social Security and payroll taxes....the DBA makes sense.

[njmomof2]

You all are dealing with name changes due to marriage. I had to do it for the opposite reason...divorce.

My passport was issued in 2007, good until 2017. My divorce was final September, 2012. Within 2 weeks, I had visited Social Security and DMV as well as sending copies to anyone who required it in order to change my name on bills, accounts, etc.

Unlike most married women, who might not care if their not due to expire passport was in their maiden name, I was not going to go a minute longer than necessary with my prior married name. However, since I was not planning on travelling where I needed the passport, I didn't send it in. Now I have a cruise scheduled for March, still don't really NEED the passport, as my DL and BC match, but I sent it in, along with the gold sealed divorce decree, and my check for $110. And just last weekend, got my new passport.

I could have continued to make my bookings under my old married name as long as the passport was valid (another 5 or so years) but that would have been very unpleasant for me. So off it went.

[varoo]

Originally Posted by njmomof2

You all are dealing with name changes due to marriage. I had to do it for the opposite reason...divorce.

My passport was issued in 2007, good until 2017. My divorce was final September, 2012. Within 2 weeks, I had visited Social Security and DMV as well as sending copies to anyone who required it in order to change my name on bills, accounts, etc.

Unlike most married women, who might not care if their not due to expire passport was in their maiden name, I was not going to go a minute longer than necessary with my prior married name. However, since I was not planning on travelling where I needed the passport, I didn't send it in. Now I have a cruise scheduled for March, still don't really NEED the passport, as my DL and BC match, but I sent it in, along with the gold sealed divorce decree, and my check for $110. And just last weekend, got my new passport.

I could have continued to make my bookings under my old married name as long as the passport was valid (another 5 or so years) but that would have been very unpleasant for me. So off it went.

You are not alone. A very common situation that so many other women have gone through also.

Many women keep their own name these days to avoid the hassles of messing with name changes. Most of the time it is when they already have established credentials and careers in their own names.

It is common not only in the world of business, but also in academia, medicine, sports and entertainment.
A woman may be Dr. A or Professor A or Captain A professionally and Mrs. B socially.

Someone brought up the subject of taxes previously.
In the USA many married couples with different last names file joint tax returns. There is no problem.

[dwjoe]

NY Times blog article from 2009 about married name changes and how to go about it.
http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/...nge-your-name/