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sparks1093
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Cheng - DS is now Asst Cheng on his destroyer. His KP education has been invaluable.:cool:

 

For a student with physical/learning disabilities, I would recommend checking the requirements of both Kings Point and the state academies. For Kings Point, prospective students need to meet the requirements of the Department of Defense Medical Examination Board (known by the acronym of DODMERB:eek:). Our youngest son, in high school, would dearly love to follow in his brother's footsteps at KP - but he has a history of asthma and likely won't meet DODMERB's requirements. SUNY Maritime, New York's state school, doesn't have the same medical requirements. Definitely on his list.:cool:

 

Out of 5 sons I have one that could make it past the DODMERB, maybe. The rest have issues that would preclude military service. From all that I've read my DS with Aspergers should be able to qualify as a civilian seafarer working in the merchant marine or on a cruise ship. I am glad he has the opportunity to make his living on the sea.

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Cheng - DS is now Asst Cheng on his destroyer. His KP education has been invaluable.:cool:

 

For a student with physical/learning disabilities, I would recommend checking the requirements of both Kings Point and the state academies. For Kings Point, prospective students need to meet the requirements of the Department of Defense Medical Examination Board (known by the acronym of DODMERB:eek:). Our youngest son, in high school, would dearly love to follow in his brother's footsteps at KP - but he has a history of asthma and likely won't meet DODMERB's requirements. SUNY Maritime, New York's state school, doesn't have the same medical requirements. Definitely on his list.:cool:

 

Good for him. I never really fit in the "gray funnel line". I repeatedly received poor performance appraisals due to the fact that I tended to "work with my hands" and not assign things to the enlisted men. I finally found my reserve billet on minesweepers that used to be home ported in Portland. The small boat Navy was always glad that I could fix the boats that had been neglected for decades.

 

Sparks; yes, KP requires that a midshipman be able to accept a commission in the Reserves, as a condition for receiving a free education. The state academies offer ROTC training, but it is not a requirement for graduation.

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Good for him. I never really fit in the "gray funnel line". I repeatedly received poor performance appraisals due to the fact that I tended to "work with my hands" and not assign things to the enlisted men. I finally found my reserve billet on minesweepers that used to be home ported in Portland. The small boat Navy was always glad that I could fix the boats that had been neglected for decades.

 

Sparks; yes, KP requires that a midshipman be able to accept a commission in the Reserves, as a condition for receiving a free education. The state academies offer ROTC training, but it is not a requirement for graduation.

I think one "advantage" DS has is that the gas turbine system on the Arleigh Burke DDGs wasn't something he was taught at KP - he's relies on the enlisted ranks. The paperwork does rankle him, though.
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Actually, one of the things that tend to amaze ex-Navy guys about merchant ships is the lack of watchstanders. The bridge watches are a mate and an able seaman, and are 4 on 8 off. The engineers are completely day workers in commercial shipping, with an unmanned engine room at night.

 

 

 

The state maritime schools are Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Texas, California, and Great Lakes (Michigan). I may be somewhat prejudiced, but I think that the US Merchant Marine Academy gives a better marine education. Kings Point condenses a four year classroom curriculum into 3 years, and adding a full year at sea as a cadet on commercial ships. The state academies tend to restrict sea time to 3 summer cruises on their training vessels. KP's sea year exposes the cadets to real life onboard a merchant ship.

 

 

I wouldn't lump Cal Maritime in that group. Consistently ranked in the top ten baccalaureate colleges in the west, it is academically rigorous in its entrance and performance requirements. For many years, a higher first time pass rate than UC Berkeley on the California mechanical engineer exam AND the only US maritime academy (outside of the US Coast Guard Academy) producing commissioned USCG officers. State of the art simulation (far beyond what KP has) including both real and virtual bridges on the TS Golden Bear (which also serves the Texas students)

 

 

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I wouldn't lump Cal Maritime in that group. Consistently ranked in the top ten baccalaureate colleges in the west, it is academically rigorous in its entrance and performance requirements. For many years, a higher first time pass rate than UC Berkeley on the California mechanical engineer exam AND the only US maritime academy (outside of the US Coast Guard Academy) producing commissioned USCG officers. State of the art simulation (far beyond what KP has) including both real and virtual bridges on the TS Golden Bear (which also serves the Texas students)

 

 

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I don't fault any of the state academies for the quality of their education, but I feel that KP stays more on mission of providing graduates who are more qualified for a maritime career. Rather than focus on other areas like marine biology, mechanical engineering, or even civil engineering (shoreland management) like the state schools, KP provides the inter-disciplinary education required to be a marine engineer. At sea, you can't call the Maytag repairman, you've got to be able to understand and fix anything. And KP graduates are given the opportunity to apply for and accept a commission in ANY branch of the Armed Forces, and every year, there are USCG, USAF, USMC, USA (Army), and even NOAA Commissioned Corps graduates in the class.

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I don't fault any of the state academies for the quality of their education, but I feel that KP stays more on mission of providing graduates who are more qualified for a maritime career. Rather than focus on other areas like marine biology, mechanical engineering, or even civil engineering (shoreland management) like the state schools, KP provides the inter-disciplinary education required to be a marine engineer. At sea, you can't call the Maytag repairman, you've got to be able to understand and fix anything. And KP graduates are given the opportunity to apply for and accept a commission in ANY branch of the Armed Forces, and every year, there are USCG, USAF, USMC, USA (Army), and even NOAA Commissioned Corps graduates in the class.

 

 

Don't get me wrong. KP is a fine institution as are SUNY and Maine's Maritime Academies.

Though I doubt any discussion of institution A vs B will sway the opinion of some alumni or fans (even though the prowess of the Ohio State football team and it's marching band are undisputed!), I'm still going to place Cal Maritime at the top of the list. With the highest faculty salaries of any US maritime academy, the resources of the largest public university system in the country (the California State Univ.), truly state of the art simulation (both deck and engine) and a broad base for understanding the demands of a modern maritime industry, including required course work in the liberal arts, logistics and global maritime affairs, CMA produces exceptionally knowledgeable, skilled and experienced young merchant and governmental maritime and military officers. Add the TS Golden Bear and a small fleet of brown water vessels and none of the others come close. I will however give the edge to KP when it comes to the lowest cost overall thanks to federal support.

 

 

 

 

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Don't get me wrong. KP is a fine institution as are SUNY and Maine's Maritime Academies.

Though I doubt any discussion of institution A vs B will sway the opinion of some alumni or fans (even though the prowess of the Ohio State football team and it's marching band are undisputed!), I'm still going to place Cal Maritime at the top of the list. With the highest faculty salaries of any US maritime academy, the resources of the largest public university system in the country (the California State Univ.), truly state of the art simulation (both deck and engine) and a broad base for understanding the demands of a modern maritime industry, including required course work in the liberal arts, logistics and global maritime affairs, CMA produces exceptionally knowledgeable, skilled and experienced young merchant and governmental maritime and military officers. Add the TS Golden Bear and a small fleet of brown water vessels and none of the others come close. I will however give the edge to KP when it comes to the lowest cost overall thanks to federal support.

 

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You're right, we could debate this forever. I will say that in almost 40 years at sea, I've met even less Cal Maritime grads than Kings Point that have remained at sea more than a couple of years. While the Golden Bear is probably a fine ship (and the State of Maine is a sister), I don't feel that the training vessel experience stacks up against the sea year experience at KP (I know that limited state cadets get to do a couple of months of commercial shipping), where you work with the equipment that is current in the industry, using practices that are current, and are assigned to work alongside (and in many cases alone) on maintenance tasks. It also gives a good introduction to actual shipping schedules, port operations, and daily shipboard routine. Cal, as well as KP and the other state schools do a fine job of training for maritime jobs ashore, but again, I think that the KP grads are the best equipped to follow a long career at sea. Many don't want the long time at sea, I know my family (amazingly only one wife, and three grown sons) has suffered for my career, and if you don't want the seafaring career, the state schools probably do a better job preparing you for shipping management ashore. I admit that I am a dinosaur, most guys who retire from seagoing do so after 20 years, not stick around for nearly twice as long.

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You're right, we could debate this forever. I will say that in almost 40 years at sea, I've met even less Cal Maritime grads than Kings Point that have remained at sea more than a couple of years. While the Golden Bear is probably a fine ship (and the State of Maine is a sister), I don't feel that the training vessel experience stacks up against the sea year experience at KP (I know that limited state cadets get to do a couple of months of commercial shipping), where you work with the equipment that is current in the industry, using practices that are current, and are assigned to work alongside (and in many cases alone) on maintenance tasks. It also gives a good introduction to actual shipping schedules, port operations, and daily shipboard routine. Cal, as well as KP and the other state schools do a fine job of training for maritime jobs ashore, but again, I think that the KP grads are the best equipped to follow a long career at sea. Many don't want the long time at sea, I know my family (amazingly only one wife, and three grown sons) has suffered for my career, and if you don't want the seafaring career, the state schools probably do a better job preparing you for shipping management ashore. I admit that I am a dinosaur, most guys who retire from seagoing do so after 20 years, not stick around for nearly twice as long.

 

 

You are correct. In an alumni survey done at CMA within the past decade, the average "life at sea" of deck and engineering grads was about 5 years. And this appears to be a worldwide phenomenon. I was at a maritime ed meeting in Odessa a few years ago and one of the most interesting presentations talked about the alarmingly shrinking ranks of Japanese harbor pilots, usually a great job but, now, with far fewer young people pursuing maritime careers.

On a separate but related item, it should also be noted that US maritime ed (across all of our schools) is the "gold standard."

One only needs to go to a country like the Philippines to see how much emphasis is placed on simulation vs shipboard education.

 

 

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You are correct. In an alumni survey done at CMA within the past decade, the average "life at sea" of deck and engineering grads was about 5 years. And this appears to be a worldwide phenomenon. I was at a maritime ed meeting in Odessa a few years ago and one of the most interesting presentations talked about the alarmingly shrinking ranks of Japanese harbor pilots, usually a great job but, now, with far fewer young people pursuing maritime careers.

On a separate but related item, it should also be noted that US maritime ed (across all of our schools) is the "gold standard."

One only needs to go to a country like the Philippines to see how much emphasis is placed on simulation vs shipboard education.

 

 

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I remember about 10-15 years ago, when France was looking for US Captains to take French harbor pilot jobs, because there were so few qualified French citizens. Most shipping companies, regardless of flag, will pay extra for a US marine engineer.

 

Simulation can be a good thing, for deck officers to cram a multitude of ship handling into a short time. For engineers, it can be of benefit to teach troubleshooting of system operation, but it cannot help with the "nuts and bolts" of doing maintenance and repair work, the mechanical aptitude that is prized in marine engineers. It can teach what is wrong, but not how to fix it.

 

I will say that some of the most exceptional engineers I've met afloat were some of the few Cal grads.

Edited by chengkp75
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