ATM pin in Europe

I have heard a rumor that to use a ATM in Europe you need a pin that is four digits or less.

Is that true?

VegasPier

I have heard a rumor that to use a ATM in Europe you need a pin that is four digits or less.

 

Is that true?

 

VegasPier

4 digits.

All our US Banks' debit cards have 4 digits pin which works fine in Europe or anywhere in the world.

I also read several places that your pin cannot start with a "0", which ours

did. I changed it before we left and it worked just fine with 4 digits.

However, in the Netherlands merchants took one look at our visa and said they could not use it because it did not have a "chip" in it. Luckily after

our expensive dinner we had enough euros to pay without using the cc.

Carol

I never had a debit card until after we sold the business. I got one, we went off to Venice. My wife told me to go and get some cash. I went put my pin # in and it was rejected. I tried another machine, did not work. My wife asked me, "did you activate your card before we left?" I said "was I suppose to?" So for the rest of cruise, I had to ask her for money LOL.

Sam

I also read several places that your pin cannot start with a "0", which ours

did. I changed it before we left and it worked just fine with 4 digits.

 

However, in the Netherlands merchants took one look at our visa and said they could not use it because it did not have a "chip" in it. Luckily after

our expensive dinner we had enough euros to pay without using the cc.

 

Carol

The Netherlands, however, has another system which they refer to as "PIN cards". These are, I believe, preloaded credit cards and/or linked to a special account. They may say Visa, but it is really a different system. We too have been surprised in a restaurant when paying and not having our Visa card accepted. Take our advice and always ask first whether your card is accepted, and always carry enough cash to be able to pay for what you've bought.

 

However, in the Netherlands merchants took one look at our visa and said they could not use it because it did not have a "chip" in it.

There's talk of US financial institutions making chipped cards available, but so far it's been only talk.

Lew

"Chip" cards are also prevelant in Canada. On a recent trip to the States, I was surprised to see that no one uses chip technology.

There's talk of US financial institutions making chipped cards available, but so far it's been only talk.

 

Lew

Some banks have them but I think you have to ask for them

In Rome in February the ATM I always used rejected my card saying it wasn't valid. Called my bank, it was valid. Turns out the ATM either couldn't contact my bank or didn't have enough money in it. Got money down the street.

I don't doubt that happened; however, the merchant could have processed your non-chipped card manually. They're required to do it under their credit card agreement.

 

Agree, but try arguing this point with a merchant who uses English as a 3rd language if at all.

But be aware that non-chip cards will often not work in vending machines that sell train tickets or at automated gasoline pumps.

Agree, but try arguing this point with a merchant who uses English as a 3rd language if at all.

 

But be aware that non-chip cards will often not work in vending machines that sell train tickets or at automated gasoline pumps.

I work in a book shop and yes, while we can process payments manually... I don't think anyone has ever done that in our store. I assume there will be a manual somewhere and we do have a helpline we can call (and leave a message on their answering machine if they don't answer after the third ring, which means they might call back within an hour or so) but we cannot process more than one payment at one register at the same time.

Some of us speak English well, some don't. Some have basic knowledge, some have non (or won't use their little knowledge because they are too embarrassed). Our registers are not staffed with non-German speaking customers in mind, sometimes you might not find anyone to solve a (major) problem in English.

Some might go the extra mile (if it's a slow day or two staff at a specific register) and sometimes we might simply not be able to do so. On a busy Saturday if I am the only one at the register I'd likely get in trouble for chasing after a way to charge a card manually. To safe everybody (us and you as a customer) time, we would most likely ask you to go to the next bank/ATM and get money there. It's a two minute walk and likely much quicker than waiting an hour for a call back.

So. Yes. If you have a non-chipped card and travel Europe please be so kind as to either have some cash on you, especially for small purchases, or at least not to feel offended if a store is not able/willing to process your payment. Also be aware that some smaller stores/restaurants might not accept credit cards at all. And AmEx is not widely accepted, at least in Germany (Visa and Mastercard should usually be allright).

I also read several places that your pin cannot start with a "0", which ours did.

Yes, this sometimes is the case (depending on bank/ATM). Some ATMs use the "0" as "cancel". This is becoming less common though. At least in Germany.

Europe consists of so many countries that rules and/or possibilities will vary a lot. Some countries/cities might even accept $ (especially touristy areas) while in other parts this will not be possible. Just something one should at least be aware of :D

AAA will sell you a "Chip & PIN" prepaid Visa card that will work in all the European places where a credit card must have a chip (mostly an issue in automated machines like in train stations). I haven't looked into the economics of it, but in the past AAA prepaid cards haven't been a good deal financially.

I have made several trips to Europe and always used my Wells Fargo card. When I received my new card last fall it came with a chip and an access code pin number which is different from what you use at an ATM.

This card is referred to as a "smart card."

Make sure you let the credit card company know you are traveling. Sometimes a card will be stopped by the company because it is thought to be stolen.:rolleyes:

"Chip" cards are also prevelant in Canada. On a recent trip to the States, I was surprised to see that no one uses chip technology.

I was exposed to the "chip" card on a recent trip to Canada. We went to pay for lunch and the cashier said "oh, it's one of those cards". Curious, I asked her what she meant and she told me about the "chip" card. We didn't have an issue using our non-chip cards though, as all of the merchants we patronized had a machine to read non-chip cards. We were in a border city (Windsor), so I don't know if this is the norm for the country as a whole or not.

In support of what others have stated, a friend of mine who travels internationally for work informed me that non-chip cards are becoming harder to use overseas.

I was exposed to the "chip" card on a recent trip to Canada. We went to pay for lunch and the cashier said "oh, it's one of those cards". Curious, I asked her what she meant and she told me about the "chip" card. We didn't have an issue using our non-chip cards though, as all of the merchants we patronized had a machine to read non-chip cards. We were in a border city (Windsor), so I don't know if this is the norm for the country as a whole or not.

 

.

The reader will accept chip & swipe cards anywhere we have been in Ontario

Some shops have the "WAVE" technology now also ;)

What next:D

European merchants are supposed to me able to accept a swiped card, but that doesn't mean they will make it easy (or will know how to do it). The liability for fraud is different for chip & PIN vs. swipe and sign transactions. The merchant has fraud liability for swipe & sign and they don't for chip & PIN.

I was able to use my regular swipe credit card at a petrol station in the UK that had a sign saying they only accepted chip & PIN cards, but I had to show my passport to the clerk (and it might have helped that I couldn't pay for my gas any other way since the ATM outside had just malfunctioned).

Don't know about "less" but 4-digit pin worked for me.

When I called the bank to tell them we're going to Europe, they warned me to make sure my pin does not start with zero (people who I talked to didn't have access to my pin number)

I asked the staff in a small village shop about non-chip cards, and they all knew to swipe them, but sometimes the tills are worked by students doing a part-time job, who may not have seen a non-chip before...it's quite a few years now since they began to be used, so teens will not have heard of swipe cards. If you have problems, ask to speak to a manager, who will know about swiping.

Jo.

In Rome in February the ATM I always used rejected my card saying it wasn't valid. Called my bank, it was valid. Turns out the ATM either couldn't contact my bank or didn't have enough money in it. Got money down the street.

Italian ATMs are a bit notorious about this issue. You just have to try a different bank. You can ask your bank before you go if they know "what Italian Banks recognize their cards".

Has to do with routing numbers. Larger banks shouldn't be a problem.

I've traveled extensively and used my (previously Wachovia and now Wells Fargo) debit card with a pin starting with "0" all over -- never have had it rejected other than when a machine was out of money. Not sure if it is an issue with just certain banks or debit systems....:confused:

Also, the "chip and pin" cards used by merchants in Europe are not the same as the swipe/chip cards or the WAVE chip cards. It is a card with a chip that must be inserted in the machine and the customer must then also enter their pin. I did extensive research prior to my last trip to Europe (a few weeks ago) and no US credit card company currently offers a true chip and pin card. I wish they'd quit dragging their feet!

Also, the "chip and pin" cards used by merchants in Europe are not the same as the swipe/chip cards or the WAVE chip cards. It is a card with a chip that must be inserted in the machine and the customer must then also enter their pin.

So do the US chip card/pin card not have a chip??

Our cards have a chip embedded in the card ... Canadian Visa

Wells Fargo has begun issuing Chip & PIN cards to some customers who travel extensively and you can buy a Travelex prepaid card that works in chip & PIN terminals. Neither solution is very attractive to me yet, due to availability and/or costs.

Wells Fargo has begun issuing Chip & PIN cards to some customers who travel extensively and you can buy a Travelex prepaid card that works in chip & PIN terminals. Neither solution is very attractive to me yet, due to availability and/or costs.

Wells Fargo may say that they are doing so, but I (as an account holder and frequent traveler) was unable to get any information from them as to this program. I do not believe they're actually doing it yet. Yes, you can get a Travelex, but that is not a credit card.

One bank I spoke with is very tricky -- they offer what they "call" a chip and pin card, but it is actually a chip and signature card -- which would not work at all for the situations I had in mind, e.g., unmanned ticket terminals, gas pumps, etc.

Just remember than a non chip card can easily be skimmed so never let the card out of your sight...

Just remember than a non chip card can easily be skimmed so never let the card out of your sight...

EDIT: I understand that the cardholder has less protection with a chip & PIN card so if the card and PIN are compromised (e.g. if the person is dumb and writes down their PIN and then the wallet containing the card and PIN is lost or stolen) there's much more risk of incurring a real loss with a chip & PIN card than with a swipe & sign card.