Segways passenger already looking to sue

[lcguy]

Originally Posted by Mark_K

It is not a secret about crime in the Bahamas. In fact, employees of the Seguey tour company even commented on how bad the crime can is. That's already been posted. I guess RC didn't do their due diligence although they claim to have taken "extreme care".

Perhaps Royal Caribbean relied on the State Department's official statement regarding crime in The Bahamas:

Although The Bahamas has a high crime rate, areas frequented by tourists during the day are not generally prone to violent crime...

You should have kept going with your copy and paste from the State Department website.... (that is if you want to be accurate).

"Visitors should exercise caution and good judgment at all times. Criminals tend to target restaurants and nightclubs frequented by tourists. One common approach is for criminals to entice victims into accepting a ride, either as a “personal favor” or by claiming to offer taxi service, and then robbing and/or assaulting the passenger once they are in the car. Visitors should use only clearly marked taxis with yellow license plates and make a note of the license plate number for their records.
Travelers should avoid walking alone after dark or in isolated areas, and avoid placing themselves in situations where they are alone with strangers. Be cautious on deserted areas of beaches at all hours. Hotel guests should always lock their doors and never open their hotel room door without first verifying the identity of the person knocking. Further, hotel guests should never leave valuables unattended, especially on beaches. Visitors should store passports/identity documents, airline tickets, credit cards, and extra cash in hotel safes. Automated teller machines (ATMs) are available; however, visitors should try not to use them, especially after dark. Avoid wearing expensive jewelry, particularly expensive watches, which criminals have specifically targeted. Visitors should take care to ride only in taxis with seatbelts.
Visitors are advised to report crime to the Royal Bahamas Police Force as quickly as possible. Early reports frequently improve the likelihood of identifying and apprehending suspected perpetrators.
The U.S. Embassy has received numerous reports of sexual assaults, including assaults against teen-age girls. Most assaults have been perpetrated against intoxicated young women, some of whom had reportedly been drugged. To minimize the potential for sexual assault, the Embassy recommends that young women stay in groups, consume alcohol in moderation or not at all, ride only in licensed taxis, and not accept rides or drinks from strangers.
The legal age in The Bahamas for consumption of alcoholic beverages is 18. Parents should be aware, however, that minimum age requirements are not strongly enforced. It is easy for teenagers to obtain alcoholic beverages and underage drinking is prevalent. Many of the arrests, accidents and violent crimes suffered by U.S. citizens in the Bahamas involve alcohol. Engaging in high-risk behavior such as excessive consumption of alcohol can ultimately be dangerous because it greatly increases the vulnerability of an individual to opportunistic crime.
In many countries around the world, including the Bahamas, counterfeit and pirated goods are available. Transactions involving such products may be illegal under local law. In addition, attempting to bring such goods back to the United States may result in forfeitures and/or fines. More information on this serious problem is available from the U.S. Department of Justice.

[TEXASMUNK]

First camp: RCI is GUILTY! Hang em high! Make em pay! Those vicious evil corporate executives!

Second Camp: This happened in a foreign country. This occured using an independant contractor. RCI has successfully used this operator for an extended period of time. Allow the Bahamian Courts to sort it out.

The second camp will not prevail in the argument over the first camp. The first camp, instead of applying calm, rational thought will accuse the second camp of being lackies for the evil corporation...

[lcguy]

Originally Posted by TEXASMUNK

First camp: RCI is GUILTY! Hang em high! Make em pay! Those vicious evil corporate executives!

Second Camp: This happened in a foreign country. This occured using an independant contractor. RCI has successfully used this operator for an extended period of time. Allow the Bahamian Courts to sort it out.

The second camp will not prevail in the argument over the first camp. The first camp, instead of applying calm, rational thought will accuse the second camp of being lackies for the evil corporation...

What about the "third camp"???

You know, the camp that recognizes that there are three sides to every story.

The camp that has an understanding of how the justice system works (or doesn't).

The camp that knows how litigious some people can be just to make a buck and the lawyers that take on these type cases to do same.

And the camp that also recognizes that large corporations are not always the most innocent corporate citizens which often-times tries to assert a limitation of liability regardless of their actions.

Fact is, should anyone who had been damaged decide to file suit, the case, unless settled prior to trial will be heard by a jury of peers. Let the best argument win!

[Mark_K]

Originally Posted by lcguy

You should have kept going with your copy and paste from the State Department website.... (that is if you want to be accurate).

"Visitors should exercise caution and good judgment at all times. Criminals tend to target restaurants and nightclubs frequented by tourists. One common approach is for criminals to entice victims into accepting a ride, either as a “personal favor” or by claiming to offer taxi service, and then robbing and/or assaulting the passenger once they are in the car. Visitors should use only clearly marked taxis with yellow license plates and make a note of the license plate number for their records.
Travelers should avoid walking alone after dark or in isolated areas, and avoid placing themselves in situations where they are alone with strangers. Be cautious on deserted areas of beaches at all hours. Hotel guests should always lock their doors and never open their hotel room door without first verifying the identity of the person knocking. Further, hotel guests should never leave valuables unattended, especially on beaches. Visitors should store passports/identity documents, airline tickets, credit cards, and extra cash in hotel safes. Automated teller machines (ATMs) are available; however, visitors should try not to use them, especially after dark. Avoid wearing expensive jewelry, particularly expensive watches, which criminals have specifically targeted. Visitors should take care to ride only in taxis with seatbelts.
Visitors are advised to report crime to the Royal Bahamas Police Force as quickly as possible. Early reports frequently improve the likelihood of identifying and apprehending suspected perpetrators.
The U.S. Embassy has received numerous reports of sexual assaults, including assaults against teen-age girls. Most assaults have been perpetrated against intoxicated young women, some of whom had reportedly been drugged. To minimize the potential for sexual assault, the Embassy recommends that young women stay in groups, consume alcohol in moderation or not at all, ride only in licensed taxis, and not accept rides or drinks from strangers.
The legal age in The Bahamas for consumption of alcoholic beverages is 18. Parents should be aware, however, that minimum age requirements are not strongly enforced. It is easy for teenagers to obtain alcoholic beverages and underage drinking is prevalent. Many of the arrests, accidents and violent crimes suffered by U.S. citizens in the Bahamas involve alcohol. Engaging in high-risk behavior such as excessive consumption of alcohol can ultimately be dangerous because it greatly increases the vulnerability of an individual to opportunistic crime.
In many countries around the world, including the Bahamas, counterfeit and pirated goods are available. Transactions involving such products may be illegal under local law. In addition, attempting to bring such goods back to the United States may result in forfeitures and/or fines. More information on this serious problem is available from the U.S. Department of Justice.

There was no reason to include the rest as it did not apply to the situation at hand. i.e. people at a tourist attraction in the daytime being robbed at gunpoint.

Besides, most of what you highlighted are just common sense precautions, it would be like having to tell somebody that rented a dune buggy or a Sea-Doo that accidents happen.

[temple1]

Originally Posted by lcguy

What about the "third camp"???

You know, the camp that recognizes that there are three sides to every story.

The camp that has an understanding of how the justice system works (or doesn't).

The camp that knows how litigious some people can be just to make a buck and the lawyers that take on these type cases to do same.

And the camp that also recognizes that large corporations are not always the most innocent corporate citizens which often-times tries to assert a limitation of liability regardless of their actions.

Fact is, should anyone who had been damaged decide to file suit, the case, unless settled prior to trial will be heard by a jury of peers. Let the best argument win!

Best answer yet.

It seems we have been so indoctrinated into believing people are constantly trying to take advantage of the poor old corporations that we forget - the poor old corporations frequently are doing everything in their power to reduce their liability without doing anything to prevent problems.

[lcguy]

Originally Posted by Mark_K

There was no reason to include the rest as it did not apply to the situation at hand. i.e. people at a tourist attraction in the daytime being robbed at gunpoint.

Besides, most of what you highlighted are just common sense precautions, it would be like having to tell somebody that rented a dune buggy or a Sea-Doo that accidents happen.

Well the rest was posted, let other readers decide for themselves. What may be "common sense" precautions to you may not be for others.

Gee, was the seguey tour in an "isolated area"???

I'm really having a difficult time understanding your logic, but then again, it doesn't really matter.

[Mark_K]

Originally Posted by lcguy

Well the rest was posted, let other readers decide for themselves. What may be "common sense" precautions to you may not be for others.

Gee, was the seguey tour in an "isolated area"???

I'm really having a difficult time understanding your logic, but then again, it doesn't really matter.

The only reference to isolated areas in what you posted talks about walking alone. They were not walking alone, they were in a group at a tourist attraction.

A bad thing happened, nothing in anything that you've posted establishes liability on the part of RCI or that either the tour operator or RCI was negligent.

[lcguy]

Originally Posted by Mark_K

The only reference to isolated areas in what you posted talks about walking alone. They were not walking alone, they were in a group at a tourist attraction.

A bad thing happened, nothing in anything that you've posted establishes liability on the part of RCI or that either the tour operator or RCI was negligent.

I think we should settle on you're totally entitled to your opinion.

Here's some additional interesting reading...

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2009/11...are-continues/

[spoonful]

Originally Posted by kooljamming

Sit down for this one
I am Jamaican but mostly do vacations now. The last few times 'some' tourists think a local with a white American must be hooker.
This guy walked up to me and offered me $2000. I am thinking $2000, WTF (forgive the expression), he thinks I am capable of doing. DH is pi$$ed, I am still trying to figure out, $2000 for what? It turned out it was $2000JA which was about $23US. Over 20 years together and 16 years of marriage, in the US no one ever assumed I was anything but his dark and lovely wife...not in Ocho Rios. In Negril, 7 mile beach one asked if I was a 'Beach Ho', told him I don't much much in water because I can't swim. Toursit have repeatedly said to DH, the place would be much better off without the locals, fancy when they hear my voice. Because I speak the dialect, I see another side of tourists not usually discussed here.

similar thing happened in belize to my two male friends. one white, one black. my black male friend was assumed to be a paid belizan "companion" to my white male friend.

[Mark_K]

Originally Posted by lcguy

I think we should settle on you're totally entitled to your opinion.

Here's some additional interesting reading...

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2009/11...are-continues/

I'm sure it was a terrible experience. However, how bad it was for them, and who, if anyone other than the perpetrators, should be held liable are two different topics.

[chaswelf]

Originally Posted by lcguy

LOL... I can host a party at my house put written disclaimers all around stating that I am not liable for what may happen to my guests, place florescent tape on steps, a fence around my pool and do you think that if someone fell down the stairs, fell in the pool and injured themselves that they would not have the right to sue?

Either get in the real world or just stay in yours. You seem comfortable there.

The cruise lines do have a legal responsibility for their passengers' safety and warn them of potential safety issues in the ports they frequent. Your response does not address that at all. Rather it's a blanket disclaimer that says we're making money on the deal, but we take no responsibility. That's a joke.

Anyway, no suits will get to court. They'll be settled to avoid potential negative legal precedence and bad publicity.

Your example while true does not represent what happened. We need to take your party one step further. So now lets say someone needed a ride home and you called the cab for them. Put them in the cab and sent them on their way. Then something happens in / with the cab and the person is injured. Should you be financially responsible to this situation? You called the cab, You picked the cab service. No different than the cruise line picking the tour operator.

[hylasgirl]

Look what happened with that guy that fell overboard... George Smith (was that his name?) Look how much money his wife got on that whole ordeal and I really didn't think RCCL owed her a dime. Yes it was tragic... but for her to be awarded a million over it? Something is wrong with the system there. AND... this is probably why the segway tour people will get money over this issue. Someone always has to pay when dealing with American businesses. I think the entire thing is horrible. BUT... I don't think RCCL is to blame. The tourist aren't to blame either. BUT... no one owes them money either. Maybe someone owes them a pound of flesh or something, but it sure isn't the cruise line.

[Oxymoron]

Originally Posted by spongerob

Go back to your analogy of a house party. One of your guests has a few more cocktails than necessary and you recommend he take a cab. You call a reputable company, and the taxi driver has an accident on the way to your friend's house. Are you responsible? Should you be held liable because you did not perform due diligence? Of course you know the answer there - so why do think the rules should change when it's RC?

You may not have noticed this yet, but when you purchase an excursion from RCCL they (RCCL) don't charge you (the ticket buyer) the same cost at the tourist company charges them, they add on a fee, a fee that can in no way be construed as a "handling" or "ticketing fee". No they charge that hefty fee for their profit and with that profit comes liability. If they charged you the same as the tourist operator, then maybe you analogy above would hold water, but as this is not the case, then they are in-part responsible.

[Mark_K]

Originally Posted by hylasgirl

Look what happened with that guy that fell overboard... George Smith (was that his name?) Look how much money his wife got on that whole ordeal and I really didn't think RCCL owed her a dime. Yes it was tragic... but for her to be awarded a million over it? Something is wrong with the system there. AND... this is probably why the segway tour people will get money over this issue. Someone always has to pay when dealing with American businesses. I think the entire thing is horrible. BUT... I don't think RCCL is to blame. The tourist aren't to blame either. BUT... no one owes them money either. Maybe someone owes them a pound of flesh or something, but it sure isn't the cruise line.

George Smith "disappeared" while on the ship, that's quite a bit different than this situation.

[lcguy]

Originally Posted by chaswelf

Your example while true does not represent what happened. We need to take your party one step further. So now lets say someone needed a ride home and you called the cab for them. Put them in the cab and sent them on their way. Then something happens in / with the cab and the person is injured. Should you be financially responsible to this situation? You called the cab, You picked the cab service. No different than the cruise line picking the tour operator.

Only one small problem... In that scenario, I didn't a) represent I took great care to select the cab company; and b) I didn't sell my guest a ticket and make a profit on it. Sorry, your analogy or lack thereof doesn't hold up.

[lcguy]

Originally Posted by Mark_K

George Smith "disappeared" while on the ship, that's quite a bit different than this situation.

Yes, you're right it is quite a bit different... Smith "disappeared" while on board. The 18 people we are referring to in this thread were robbed, threatened, beaten and terrorized while on a shore excursion sold to them by RCI and DIS which take great care in ensuring the highest quality excursions.

[hylasgirl]

Originally Posted by Mark_K

George Smith "disappeared" while on the ship, that's quite a bit different than this situation.

I wasn't saying it was the same... I was saying that no matter what, someone will ALWAYS blame someone else. Like someone else posted... It's the American way. It is NOT RCCL's fault. It's SO unfortunate, but it is not their fault.

And yes... of course it wasn't the same... the people on the tour didn't disappear.