Would a Amex Starwood Card be a waste

Time to deep six my Carlson card which served us really well for the short time I had it. But, they've devalued, no longer give a free night on redempemtions and the locations for our next trips will not be in their strong suit area of Northern Europe and Mid East.

Next trip is a rather long land trip to SE Asia. In most cities Starwood properties are first or second choice. In one I'd have to go a bit farther down the food chain in choice. But, in the end..I'd reach the next level....and staring at a merger. :confused:

I guess the question is should I go for it, or just view it as a complete waste and go for the first choices all around?

I'm asking here because I view this board as the one with the knowledgable air/travel warriors with the greatest percentage of point chasers.

In general, the Starwood Amex is considered to be one of the top "point earning" cards. Part of the appeal is that you have flexiblity beyond just redemption for hotels. You can transfer to airline programs and get a 25% bonus on your transfers -- in other words, 20k Starpoints = 25k miles. Nice bonus. Starwood also has some good "Cash & Points" redemptions where you use some number of points + cash rather than all points. I often find that to be a better use than straight points. For longer stays, you can stay 5 nights for the cost of 4 - SPG gives the last night free. They have a "Nights and Flights" where you can turn in 60k points and get 50k of miles plus a 5 night Cat 3 redemption or 70k at a Cat 4.

Now, there are some Chase cards that are also quite valuable due to the transfer capability of the points plus the category spend bonuses. So Starwood is not the automatic "best" card to have. Also, there are cards to have but not to use. The Platinum Amex charge (not credit) card is one. Great side benefits, but the Membership Rewards earning value isn't as good as other cards. If savvy, you get that card for the benefits (like airline fee waivers, GE fee waivers, hotel and rental car status), not to earn MR points.

Gary Leff has a pretty good summary that can get you thinking HERE. There are also a number of good blogs at Boarding Area that also do credit card evaluations. Read them all if you can.

FWIW, I have the Starwood Amex and it is my go-to card. Now that Amex doesn't charge a foreign exchange fee on the card, I'm using it more overseas when I can. I also have the Platinum card, for the benefits (and they had a hell of a signup bonus when I got it).

Best advice: Do your research and find out what card fits YOUR spending patterns - also what fits your goals. Some cards come with elite status attached, some with great startup bonuses, some with great spend bonuses. Only you can know what will maximize your utility value AND will meet your aspirational goals. Good luck!

One further thought. In my experience, you can often do very well for lodging in Asia by using pre-paid reservation services. Better value than using points in almost all cases except for very aspirational properties (such as overwater bungalos etc). A couple of good ones are Agoda and Asia Travel. For example, got the Fullerton Hotel in Singapore for under $100 per night (including breakfasts) which was a steal. Ditto with top hotels in Vietnam and China and Thailand.

If you do use them, keep looking regularly and jump when a deal comes along. Hotels use these services to dump inventory when bookings are slow, so stay on the lookout.

Thanks for the tips Flyertalker. I'll relook at my first hotel choices and see if they have any prepay deals on some of those sites. We're ending our trip in regular old Asia - HK and Seoul - so those hotels will be pricey.

I checked the link and the Starwood card does look interesting, even if it will have a short life. I guess once they figure out which card will survive (I'd put my money on the Chase Visa) that card will chase existing Amex Starwood holders with some sign up benefits.

The only "card death" we've gone through was the old NW world perks. It's taken me forever to get my husband to stop using the replacement US Bank Flex card as his primary card - it's worthless! Making major headway there - I have him convinced to cancel that and get a Sapphire. I have a Sapphire already, which I used to accumulate points for the flights over.

I have used the free night trick for long stays - actually found a 4 for 3 at the Alphonso in Seville which was a great deal. But, I recently learned I was sleeping at the switch and could have tied all my Sheraton stays to Delta points too. Dang.

I probably spread my card points too thin - but I kind of view it as longer term farming, something is always ripening points wise.

Sorry that my answer was more on the elemetary level - didn't realize you were already working the game. You're on your way to making some good decisions - now do the research. And as always, Caveat Emptor.

Sorry that my answer was more on the elemetary level - didn't realize you were already working the game. You're on your way to making some good decisions - now do the research. And as always, Caveat Emptor.

Still learning - and still making mistakes - as evidenced by missing out on Delta points with three recent relatively high dollar Starwood stays. Thank you for keeping it on the elementary level, I have trouble following the points boards for the people that are specialists at this stuff.

I also didn't realize the 1.25X transfer to airline in the Starwood benefits.

Actually, what I have learned is mostly by reading this board. It's like a summary of the highlights of the dedicated points boards. I can get the major concepts and run with them within my ability.

Starwood (spg) is being bought out by Marriott? I have the Marriott Visa Rewards Card and use it frequently. The two companies are still running separate award programs, but Marriott told me the plan was to merge the two within a year of final merger. I have points on both systems since I also stay at Westins regularly.

Long term that Starwood AMEX card may become outdated!

I too use the Amex Plat for the benefits which include lounge access (both Sky and Priority Pass), the rebate for Global Entry, the 200 fees rebates on a selected airline etc. I do lot of buying on Amazon and the 2x points is also a plus.

Chase is a good choice. I have both UA and Marriott. The bonus points on Marriott stays and travel is a big plus. The free night stay pays the fee.

Starwood (spg) is being bought out by Marriott? I have the Marriott Visa Rewards Card and use it frequently. The two companies are still running separate award programs, but Marriott told me the plan was to merge the two within a year of final merger. I have points on both systems since I also stay at Westins regularly.

 

Long term that Starwood AMEX card may become outdated!

Actually, it might be nice if it does go to credit card heaven before the annual fee kicks in.:D And now perhaps of conversion of points to Airline miles (now that I learned about the 1.25X) if they hammer the conversion of Starwood points to Marriott points on the program merger.

My searches have come up with some older links that give a 2018 target for the program merger....so I'll probably have at least one annual fee if I sign up for it.

Thanks for the tips Flyertalker. I'll relook at my first hotel choices and see if they have any prepay deals on some of those sites. We're ending our trip in regular old Asia - HK and Seoul - so those hotels will be pricey.

 

I checked the link and the Starwood card does look interesting, even if it will have a short life. I guess once they figure out which card will survive (I'd put my money on the Chase Visa) that card will chase existing Amex Starwood holders with some sign up benefits.

 

The only "card death" we've gone through was the old NW world perks. It's taken me forever to get my husband to stop using the replacement US Bank Flex card as his primary card - it's worthless! Making major headway there - I have him convinced to cancel that and get a Sapphire. I have a Sapphire already, which I used to accumulate points for the flights over.

 

I have used the free night trick for long stays - actually found a 4 for 3 at the Alphonso in Seville which was a great deal. But, I recently learned I was sleeping at the switch and could have tied all my Sheraton stays to Delta points too. Dang.

 

I probably spread my card points too thin - but I kind of view it as longer term farming, something is always ripening points wise.

Curious why you say the US. Bank Flexscard is "worthless"?

We have one and find that using miles for flights (especially domestic where we get flights up to $400 for 20,000 points and $600 for 30,000 points and also get airline miles for those flights!)

has been a huge money saver.

Am I missing something?

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I too use the Amex Plat for the benefits which include lounge access (both Sky and Priority Pass), the rebate for Global Entry, the 200 fees rebates on a selected airline etc. I do lot of buying on Amazon and the 2x points is also a plus.

 

Chase is a good choice. I have both UA and Marriott. The bonus points on Marriott stays and travel is a big plus. The free night stay pays the fee.

I'll have to look at the Marriott card, because that will probably be the "survivor", but I'd probably do the Starwood and wait for the transition.

I spent yesterday looking at the Hilton (no fee) and the IHG. We'll be doing 8 hotel stays thoughout SE Asia and and Asia, with high dollar stays in HK and Seoul (and one near Dulles before the long flight). I'm trying to look at which cards have the best fit to the hotels that were on the top of my list. Yesterday I just realized the Intercontinental were always near the top - except Seoul. Mid coast Vietnam is lost to points - no options for point accumulation.

With the IHG, low annual fee- free first year, free night on anniverary. 60K sign up, with an obscenely low spend -$1K. Platinum status with sign up that gives an extra 50% on points. Redemption options seem reasonable for area where I would use the points (looking toward South America for 2018). The Asia trip would, with sign up, would generate about 120K in miles and with the free anniversary night, result in about 7 free nights. I also like the 2x grocery points..being the family food gatherer it's where I generate a number of points. No FX transaction fees. Downside...Intercontinentals and Crowne Plaza are the only safely decent properties generally.

One of the Hilton cards by Citi is no fee, 3x grocery spend, $50 statement rebate on first stay. I pretty much stopped the analysis there, once I realized the redemptions looked expensive and after the Hanoi Hilton Opera, there wasn't much on my top list for the next trip...nothing in Saigon, only a really, really expensive Conrad in HK, and a lesser choice in Seoul.

For the Marriott card, it would probably be better to wait, in that I could achieve the points on Starwood properties which are at the top of my list (HK and Westin Seoul) but would switch to an IHG for HK if I went that route. I will be redeeming miles for a stay in Siem Reap.

Sorry for the long winded analysis, but I'm a number cruncher by education.:) If someone bothers to read through this mess and thinks my analysis is warped feel free to set me straight.

Curious why you say the US. Bank Flexscard is "worthless"?

We have one and find that using miles for flights (especially domestic where we get flights up to $400 for 20,000 points and $600 for 30,000 points and also get airline miles for those flights!)

has been a huge money saver.

Am I missing something?

"Worthless" is obviously in the eyes of the beholder.

The big difference between cards like the Flexcard (or similar cards like Capital One et al) is that the more traditional cards allow you to accumulate points for premium cabin travel.

Take your $600 value for 30,000 points. That makes your points "worth" 2c each. Then take someone with a "conventional" mileage card who accumulates, say, 110,000 American Airline miles. Those can be redeemed for a business class round trip to Europe or South America that would cost upwards of $3500 (or more) to purchase. In that case, the miles are worth more than 3c each, 50% more valuable than the Flexcard.

Most people who "play the game" believe that using points or miles for economy tickets is not the best use of them, and in those cases the more conventional redemption options make more sense.

Back to the OP, I don't think there's been any word on what will happen with the SPG card once the Marriott takeover is finished. Because of its many airline partners (by far the biggest list in the industry) SPG is very popular with travelers, so if I were at Marriott (and I'm not) I'd do everything possible to keep the SPG partners list intact with the new program.

Curious why you say the US. Bank Flexscard is "worthless"?

We have one and find that using miles for flights (especially domestic where we get flights up to $400 for 20,000 points and $600 for 30,000 points and also get airline miles for those flights!)

has been a huge money saver.

Am I missing something?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

"Worthless" is obviously in the eyes of the beholder.

 

The big difference between cards like the Flexcard (or similar cards like Capital One et al) is that the more traditional cards allow you to accumulate points for premium cabin travel.

 

Take your $600 value for 30,000 points. That makes your points "worth" 2c each. Then take someone with a "conventional" mileage card who accumulates, say, 110,000 American Airline miles. Those can be redeemed for a business class round trip to Europe or South America that would cost upwards of $3500 (or more) to purchase. In that case, the miles are worth more than 3c each, 50% more valuable than the Flexcard.

 

Most people who "play the game" believe that using points or miles for economy tickets is not the best use of them, and in those cases the more conventional redemption options make more sense.

 

Back to the OP, I don't think there's been any word on what will happen with the SPG card once the Marriott takeover is finished. Because of its many airline partners (by far the biggest list in the industry) SPG is very popular with travelers, so if I were at Marriott (and I'm not) I'd do everything possible to keep the SPG partners list intact with the new program.

Thanks for the analysis.

Did you see the part where, when we fly using Flex Card miles, we also accumulate airline miles for that flight?

We don't use business class for short domestic flights and use those accumulated airline miles for the longer international ones.

So aren't we getting the best of both?

Actually, it might be nice if it does go to credit card heaven before the annual fee kicks in.:D And now perhaps of conversion of points to Airline miles (now that I learned about the 1.25X) if they hammer the conversion of Starwood points to Marriott points on the program merger.

 

My searches have come up with some older links that give a 2018 target for the program merger....so I'll probably have at least one annual fee if I sign up for it.

2018 is what I have heard also (not citing sources, but "knowledgeable" ones ;) )

The Marriott group has consistently said they like the SPG program's setup; hoping they go that way instead of the lackluster Marriott program. Employees may be getting shorted, though: the *wood employee stay discounts are WAY better than Marriott's. A stay at the Westin Rome is $89US/night while a stay at the Marriott up the street is 258EU/night...

Thanks for the analysis.

Did you see the part where, when we fly using Flex Card miles, we also accumulate airline miles for that flight?

We don't use business class for short domestic flights and use those accumulated airline miles for the longer international ones.

So aren't we getting the best of both?

Sorry, as Gardyloo made clear, I should have said worthless for us...someone else might find value.

Actually, I tend to be a "prostitute" when it comes to credit cards..I re-evaluate according to upcoming trips. For example the Carlson would have been a worthless card to most people, but under the old program it worked quite well for us...in fact I wish I had found it a year earlier when we were going to the Middle East. New Carlson program...doesn't work for redemption cost and geographically doesn't work well for foreseeable future trips. So, time for a new card where I can earn decent points with a spend and instant points on sign-up.

For the flights on this trip, I signed up for a Sapphire in early February...and by late June I had enough for one one-way first class (for the long portion) DTW to SGN..it's economy to Dulles and business from Bejing to SGN. DH had enough in his account from a Chase United signup a few years ago for his flight. Cost was 80k miles each. For the way back, I bought miles (100K) during a AA miles sale for two business class SEL to DTW (60K each) to add what few miles I had left in my AA account. With the AA Citi card 12k miles went back into the account with the redemption.

The whole thing worked for me...basically a little over $2K out of pocket for two RT front of the plane Asia tickets. Others could have done a lot better, but, I'm pleased that I worked the system decently well, for what I wanted, within my capabilities and knowledge base. Note, when we purchase flights outright, we usually fly Delta, since we're in a hub.

For the 2018 big trip, I'll probably have to buy the flights, but the hotel spend will be subsidized by a point spend.

I use my Amex Starwood card as my primary card. I never "waste" the miles on hotels.

I transfer 20,000 points to American Airlines and get 25,000 miles. Then use these for one way flights to Europe. (I do a lot of TAs .)

Flights to Europe (economy) are 20,000 miles.

For hotels I use lastminutetravel club or Priceline or Hotwire.

2018 is what I have heard also (not citing sources, but "knowledgeable" ones ;) )

 

The Marriott group has consistently said they like the SPG program's setup; hoping they go that way instead of the lackluster Marriott program. Employees may be getting shorted, though: the *wood employee stay discounts are WAY better than Marriott's. A stay at the Westin Rome is $89US/night while a stay at the Marriott up the street is 258EU/night...

Thanks Slidergirl, if anyone would have the inside scoop on the transition it would be you. I would love to see the Starwood program remain.

I'm still doing due diligence on which program to go with (more like analysis paralysis - it's a good thing that I find it fun- like working a logic puzzle).

I've managed to eliminate 2 programs, the Hilton and Marriott. Getting a "currency" value on hotel points isn't easy - it's much more subjective than Air miles. I probably should look at each program's air conversion factor, to put them in a currency I can somewhat relate to.

I do like the Hyatt's signup bonus...but, what I'd have to spend for the paid nights would increase (the properties are quite nice) so that's most likely out also. It looks like they have some nice $ and points rooms in some properties, but I could always open an account and transfer some Sapphire points if I wanted to splurge at a cost I could live with (like their property in Buenos Aires on 2018 trip). Probably a stupid move - but value is in the eye of the beholder.:)

To add a couple of data points for your analysis:

Point values from The Points Guy: LINK HERE (he does this monthly)

Point values from Gary Leff: LINK HERE (less frequent)

Of course, much depends on your particular goals. Are you going for aspirational type rewards (such as overwater bungalow in Polynesia or Maldives) or more of just an alternative currency? Value of transferability? You know the drill.

Biggest issue to all: Deciding what YOU want from the program, then looking to see who delivers that in the most effective way.

To add a couple of data points for your analysis:

 

Point values from The Points Guy: LINK HERE (he does this monthly)

 

Point values from Gary Leff: LINK HERE (less frequent)

 

Of course, much depends on your particular goals. Are you going for aspirational type rewards (such as overwater bungalow in Polynesia or Maldives) or more of just an alternative currency? Value of transferability? You know the drill.

 

Biggest issue to all: Deciding what YOU want from the program, then looking to see who delivers that in the most effective way.

Thanks...those links do help. Starwood is the clear winner for chugging nights. In fact I think it seals the deal. I like all of their properties in each city we're visiting, except for Hanoi...but none of contenders have anything great there (except Hilton for location). And, it has the product I've been collecting the most points with over the years with stays...it's always in the sweet spot with price/luxury/amenities for us. The link also confirmed what happened to Carlson after it's devaluation...it's horrid.

BTW to look at the sign-up bonus I had a really weird equalizing analysis...how many nights it would buy in Ho Chi Minh (except for Hyatt all the properties are very similar.) All buy two nights...except Marriott, which doesn't even buy one.

It could end up being a short lived card, due to the merger...but, hopefully Amex will get very aggressive with pricing in order to take the whole deal. I recall reading somewhere they got very aggressive to keep Delta. And, they lost Costco.

Thanks all, it's bye bye Carlson..hello Starwood.

I can sometimes get lost in the forest...that airline exchange tells all. Putting away all airline cards...at least until the merger.

Sorry, I can be really dense sometimes until I get it.