website

Has anyone heard of the website First Class Flyer? For a yearly fee they give you all these great deals for Business and First class. A poster on a roll call said that she got RT Miami to Amsterdam for $1700 in business class. I went ahead and got the "free" 14 day membership but since we're still 11 months away for our cruise to the Baltics-the deals only go through March. Not exactly sure how you actually make the reservations once you have found a deal you want. Anyone out there use this site?

 

Teanne

Many of the deals they describe are basically ways to leverage credit card mileage awards, short-term sales by some airlines, etc. You can spend your money for the site, or - free - you can monitor this forum (and others) on Flyertalk - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premium-fare-deals-740/

 

Brush up on your airline and airport codes before diving in.

 

For example, a couple from today - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premium-fare-deals/1769738-klm-af-canada-germany-end-aug-may-17-cad1650-ai.html - e.g. Vancouver to Berlin for C$1650 (US$1221) round trip in business class on KLM/Air France, or http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premium-fare-deals/1769413-dl-us-west-coast-central-europe-biz-1700-a.html - e.g. San Francisco RT to Zurich on Delta, $1700.

Many of the deals they describe are basically ways to leverage credit card mileage awards, short-term sales by some airlines, etc. You can spend your money for the site, or - free - you can monitor this forum (and others) on Flyertalk - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premium-fare-deals-740/

 

Brush up on your airline and airport codes before diving in.

 

For example, a couple from today - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premium-fare-deals/1769738-klm-af-canada-germany-end-aug-may-17-cad1650-ai.html - e.g. Vancouver to Berlin for C$1650 (US$1221) round trip in business class on KLM/Air France, or http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premium-fare-deals/1769413-dl-us-west-coast-central-europe-biz-1700-a.html - e.g. San Francisco RT to Zurich on Delta, $1700.

 

I will be needing an "open jaw" (I think thats what its called) for May '17. Will I be able to find those on these sites? Its really confusing. Wish there was a search mode for those sites. Oh well.

 

Teanne

These are not "search" sites. Sometimes info is posted about an excellent fare between two cities. If they happen to meet your needs - great. Or you decide to jump on it and create a trip. But you can't just go to FlyerTalk and search for a deal between your cities on your dates.

 

The simple answer is - there is no simple solution. Finding a good price for your ticket involves research, accumulation of knowledge, and your own judgment as to when to buy a ticket. You need to accept that there isn't a

"magic site" or "magic date" or "magic time" or any "magic". Somehow, the collective flying public think that there's some secret out there that they just need to be told about.

 

For all of the great pricings I've found over the years, there have been FAR FAR more that have been run-of-the-mill fares. Ones where no amount of "skill" could have gotten me a "deal".

 

A couple more examples running around now. SFO to IST is going for under $1100 in business on AF, bought through DL. You can go to many cities in Asia on ANA for under $550 in coach - IF you make it an open jaw with the open segment in North America. (such as LAX-NRT-BKK-NRT-SFO).

These are not "search" sites. Sometimes info is posted about an excellent fare between two cities. If they happen to meet your needs - great. Or you decide to jump on it and create a trip. But you can't just go to FlyerTalk and search for a deal between your cities on your dates.

 

The simple answer is - there is no simple solution. Finding a good price for your ticket involves research, accumulation of knowledge, and your own judgment as to when to buy a ticket. You need to accept that there isn't a

"magic site" or "magic date" or "magic time" or any "magic". Somehow, the collective flying public think that there's some secret out there that they just need to be told about.

 

For all of the great pricings I've found over the years, there have been FAR FAR more that have been run-of-the-mill fares. Ones where no amount of "skill" could have gotten me a "deal".

 

A couple more examples running around now. SFO to IST is going for under $1100 in business on AF, bought through DL. You can go to many cities in Asia on ANA for under $550 in coach - IF you make it an open jaw with the open segment in North America. (such as LAX-NRT-BKK-NRT-SFO).

 

Thank you so much for explaining this. I see what you mean. Will probably just cancel the First Class Flyer before they charge my cc for it. I wish I could pay someone to watch the sites for me for the route I need-guess thats what my travel agent is for. Thanks for the input.

Teanne

I wish I could pay someone to watch the sites for me for the route I need-guess thats what my travel agent is for.

Travel agents in the US - in general - know next to nothing about air travel; the airlines stopped paying commissions (unlike cruise lines) years ago, so there's zero incentive for TAs to become experts in air travel.

 

What is the route you need and what are your dates? We'll be happy to help but we're not mind readers.

 

I guess my take on this is that it seems justified spending as much time researching a $2000 purchase of airline tickets as you would for a $700 washing machine.

Travel agents in the US - in general - know next to nothing about air travel; the airlines stopped paying commissions (unlike cruise lines) years ago, so there's zero incentive for TAs to become experts in air travel.

 

What is the route you need and what are your dates? We'll be happy to help but we're not mind readers.

 

I guess my take on this is that it seems justified spending as much time researching a $2000 purchase of airline tickets as you would for a $700 washing machine.

 

You'd think the travel agents would know all these things but I guess thats not true. My last travel agent told me to get my own airfare for the Holy Land Cruise we were going on. Geez-it was just flights into and out of Rome-no biggie. Don't use that travel agent anymore. Your right about time researching-I need to brush up on the airport and airline codes. Of course our flights aren't even available yet-I hear that you have to wait until about 10 months out. Here's my info though in case you see something:

 

Lv Austin TX May 16, 2017 for Amsterdam

Rtn June 1 2017 out of Stockholm to Austin TX.

We actually have a BA which flies to London daily from Austin-would love to get on that flight but I know we usually have to go through Atlanta or JFK when we go to Europe. We missed a connection last year on BA and stayed the night in London and they put us on the direct flight which was the new "dreamliner"-nice plane. I was hoping to get business on the long parts of the flights and economy on the shorter parts. So I think I have to wait another month for those flights to be posted. So far I've only seen things through March '17.

For most US airlines you have to wait until 330 days before travel (some foreign carriers will open bookings at 360 or 365 days) but it's important to note that you don't necessarily get the cheapest fares right when they go on sale. Airlines will sometimes hold back the cheapest fare classes until they can be more certain their own operating costs aren't likely to go up too much in the interim (fuel price spikes etc.) so they will make the consumer cover the "hedge." Like I'm prone to say, sometimes early birds don't get worms, they get cats.

 

It's worth mentioning that BA has business class fare sales from time to time, and - maybe counter-intuitive - summer is often when transatlantic business class fares are at their cheapest, as demand from actual business travelers falls off for the season. So I'd start monitoring BA with your open-jaw itinerary (you'd change planes in London in both directions) starting later this month. Be patient - seats aren't going to sell out.

I would not only look for this London flight but also any either Austin Amsterdam return or Austin Copenhagen return flights. And then cover the Europe internal flight Copenhagen Amsterdam with a one way low cost flight of which there are plenty. It's short and painless so you won't need a fancy seat. Just luggage often needs booking extra.

I would not only look for this London flight but also any either Austin Amsterdam return or Austin Copenhagen return flights. And then cover the Europe internal flight Copenhagen Amsterdam with a one way low cost flight of which there are plenty. It's short and painless so you won't need a fancy seat. Just luggage often needs booking extra.

 

No I don't need an Europe internal flight. The cruise leaves from Amsterdam and then we get off the ship in Stockholm. Should I look for 2 one-way flights? I will look at other flights too. Maybe AUS-ALT-AMS or something like that. Thanks

Teanne

No I don't need an Europe internal flight. The cruise leaves from Amsterdam and then we get off the ship in Stockholm. Should I look for 2 one-way flights? I will look at other flights too. Maybe AUS-ALT-AMS or something like that. Thanks

I think you are missing the point.

 

It seems like you are looking for an itinerary that flies directly to AMS from the USA. Also coming from ARN directly to the USA. The suggestion is that you should also think of routing AUS-XXX-YYY-AMS and ARN-YYY-XXX-AUS (where XXX is in the USA and YYY is in Europe). Yes, it's a double connect, but that's much a function of you starting in AUS. You could (and should) think of starting your flights from DFW and IAH as well. In my guess, better flight pricing may come from those cities due to greater traffic to Europe.

 

You could use many cities as gateways to the TATL segment, heading into any number of Euro-hubs, then connecting to AMS (and back from ARN on the return). Various Euro-hubs and their alliances include:

 

LHR - British Airways (Oneworld)

MAD - Iberia (Oneworld)

HEL - Finnair (Oneworld)

TXL & DUS - Air Berlin (Oneworld)

FRA & MUC - Lufthansa (Star)

ZRH - Swiss (Star)

VIE - Austrian (Star)

CPH & ARN - SAS (Star)

IST - Turkish (Star)

CDG - Air France (SkyTeam)

AMS - KLM (SkyTeam)

FCO & MXP - Alitalia (SkyTeam)

 

What you may lose in convenience may very well be made up in terms of cost. Also, you may want to factor in the inflight product - if one airline has a better seating arrangement, it may be worth factoring in an evaluation of that benefit.

 

Ultimately, it comes down to what are YOUR priorities. For example, I have friends who think I'm nuts to have four segments for a simple run from the west coast to Asia. I, on the other hand, want to maximize my FF mile redemptions and will gladly take longer itineraries to get the lowest business class rate. Plus, I will route certain aircraft and carriers to get better inflight product.

 

The good news....you have time. Check routes from AUS, DFW and IAH, as well as from SAT. Get a feel for pricing and establish your targets. Evaluate what the worth is for fewer connections - and for various airline/aircraft/airport combinations (I need a significant cost reduction to justify flying through JFK or ORD, for example). And get your mind ready to pull the trigger when you find something you are happy with, for he who hesitates is lost.

I think you are missing the point.

 

It seems like you are looking for an itinerary that flies directly to AMS from the USA. Also coming from ARN directly to the USA. The suggestion is that you should also think of routing AUS-XXX-YYY-AMS and ARN-YYY-XXX-AUS (where XXX is in the USA and YYY is in Europe). Yes, it's a double connect, but that's much a function of you starting in AUS. You could (and should) think of starting your flights from DFW and IAH as well. In my guess, better flight pricing may come from those cities due to greater traffic to Europe.

 

You could use many cities as gateways to the TATL segment, heading into any number of Euro-hubs, then connecting to AMS (and back from ARN on the return). Various Euro-hubs and their alliances include:

 

LHR - British Airways (Oneworld)

MAD - Iberia (Oneworld)

HEL - Finnair (Oneworld)

TXL & DUS - Air Berlin (Oneworld)

FRA & MUC - Lufthansa (Star)

ZRH - Swiss (Star)

VIE - Austrian (Star)

CPH & ARN - SAS (Star)

IST - Turkish (Star)

CDG - Air France (SkyTeam)

AMS - KLM (SkyTeam)

FCO & MXP - Alitalia (SkyTeam)

 

What you may lose in convenience may very well be made up in terms of cost. Also, you may want to factor in the inflight product - if one airline has a better seating arrangement, it may be worth factoring in an evaluation of that benefit.

 

Ultimately, it comes down to what are YOUR priorities. For example, I have friends who think I'm nuts to have four segments for a simple run from the west coast to Asia. I, on the other hand, want to maximize my FF mile redemptions and will gladly take longer itineraries to get the lowest business class rate. Plus, I will route certain aircraft and carriers to get better inflight product.

 

The good news....you have time. Check routes from AUS, DFW and IAH, as well as from SAT. Get a feel for pricing and establish your targets. Evaluate what the worth is for fewer connections - and for various airline/aircraft/airport combinations (I need a significant cost reduction to justify flying through JFK or ORD, for example). And get your mind ready to pull the trigger when you find something you are happy with, for he who hesitates is lost.

 

OK I see what your saying. We will probably use our free tickets for Southwest Airlines to get to the east coast and then head to Europe from there. I have no problem with a stop in Europe before hitting AMS. Same thing on the way home. Just want those Business seats on the long flights and coach on the others.

 

So I have a question about timing. What has your experience been with timing? I know that my TA will get me quotes from Choice Air too. But when would be the latest I should wait to firm up my flights. I do tend to get anxious if there are things left undone or until the last minute. I'm a "planner"-ex-I already have all our tours and shore excursions planned and booked and the cruise is 11 months away.

 

I understand what you mean about "in-flight product". I prefer KLM, AF, DL,AA, BA. I won't fly the smaller airlines internationally. I prefer the A300 series or Boeings 777 Dreamliner (the hubs and I went to the plant in Seattle for a tour a few years ago and they were making the Dreamliner and he was so impressed-he's an air traffic controller so he loves all things aviation). Wish the Dreamliner had the seating configuration of 2 seats on each side rather than 3. I hate middle seats. But I know with Business thats not an issue.

 

Teanne

OK I see what your saying. We will probably use our free tickets for Southwest Airlines to get to the east coast and then head to Europe from there. I have no problem with a stop in Europe before hitting AMS. Same thing on the way home. Just want those Business seats on the long flights and coach on the others.

In my view that's a waste of miles. Airfares are not determined by distance, but rather by supply/demand factors between any "city pairs." Thus a ticket to say, Holland, from New York or Boston can be more expensive than one from Chicago or Dallas, or so close that there's no advantage of using Southwest miles (or any other miles) to "position" yourselves "closer" to Europe. Doesn't work that way.

 

There are umpteen one-stop solutions from Austin to Amsterdam. You can fly on BA to London then connect on BA, or you can fly on Delta to Atlanta and then Delta to Amsterdam, or on American to Philadelphia then Amsterdam, or on United to Chicago or Newark, then onward, and so on and so on. And that's not even counting "partner" airlines, e.g. Delta to Atlanta then KLM to AMS, etc. There are fewer coming back, because Stockholm isn't the airline hub that AMS is, but there are still a large number of options.

 

So I have a question about timing. What has your experience been with timing? I know that my TA will get me quotes from Choice Air too. But when would be the latest I should wait to firm up my flights. I do tend to get anxious if there are things left undone or until the last minute. I'm a "planner"-ex-I already have all our tours and shore excursions planned and booked and the cruise is 11 months away.

As I said earlier, booking flights too early runs you a couple of risks: you can actually pay more than if you're patient, and the longer out you book the higher the odds are that there will be one or more schedule changes in the interim. This can sometimes be quite problematic, especially on the return if you're trying to fly out on the day the cruise ends.

 

There's no "best" time - you eventually will have to decide if the price and flight times/routes are things you can live with, then pull the trigger and don't look back. Personally, I wouldn't purchase tickets any earlier than six months before your departure date, and I wouldn't wait past two months before, unless I thought there was a really good chance of a fare sale cropping up. And like I said earlier, there are sales, particularly for business class, that do crop up. "Keep your powder dry" can be good advice. And don't worry, you're not going to miss the best deals or end up with no seats being available. There are tens of thousands of airline seats flying over the Atlantic every day of the year. Your best bet is to keep monitoring, and be prepared to jump.

 

I understand what you mean about "in-flight product". I prefer KLM, AF, DL,AA, BA. I won't fly the smaller airlines internationally. I prefer the A300 series or Boeings 777 Dreamliner (the hubs and I went to the plant in Seattle for a tour a few years ago and they were making the Dreamliner and he was so impressed-he's an air traffic controller so he loves all things aviation). Wish the Dreamliner had the seating configuration of 2 seats on each side rather than 3. I hate middle seats. But I know with Business thats not an issue.

The Dreamliner is a 787, not a 777. And you'd be surprised how comfortable business class can be in a narrow-body jet like some of United's or American's 757s fitted for longhaul service.

In my view that's a waste of miles. Airfares are not determined by distance, but rather by supply/demand factors between any "city pairs." Thus a ticket to say, Holland, from New York or Boston can be more expensive than one from Chicago or Dallas, or so close that there's no advantage of using Southwest miles (or any other miles) to "position" yourselves "closer" to Europe. Doesn't work that way.

 

There are umpteen one-stop solutions from Austin to Amsterdam. You can fly on BA to London then connect on BA, or you can fly on Delta to Atlanta and then Delta to Amsterdam, or on American to Philadelphia then Amsterdam, or on United to Chicago or Newark, then onward, and so on and so on. And that's not even counting "partner" airlines, e.g. Delta to Atlanta then KLM to AMS, etc. There are fewer coming back, because Stockholm isn't the airline hub that AMS is, but there are still a large number of options.

 

As I said earlier, booking flights too early runs you a couple of risks: you can actually pay more than if you're patient, and the longer out you book the higher the odds are that there will be one or more schedule changes in the interim. This can sometimes be quite problematic, especially on the return if you're trying to fly out on the day the cruise ends.

 

There's no "best" time - you eventually will have to decide if the price and flight times/routes are things you can live with, then pull the trigger and don't look back. Personally, I wouldn't purchase tickets any earlier than six months before your departure date, and I wouldn't wait past two months before, unless I thought there was a really good chance of a fare sale cropping up. And like I said earlier, there are sales, particularly for business class, that do crop up. "Keep your powder dry" can be good advice. And don't worry, you're not going to miss the best deals or end up with no seats being available. There are tens of thousands of airline seats flying over the Atlantic every day of the year. Your best bet is to keep monitoring, and be prepared to jump.

 

The Dreamliner is a 787, not a 777. And you'd be surprised how comfortable business class can be in a narrow-body jet like some of United's or American's 757s fitted for longhaul service.

 

 

Oops-my bad about the Dreamliner. You've given me so much great information. I really appreciate it. Will just sit back and watch how the fares go. Not in any hurry and I have a good idea of what price I'd "like" to pay for business. Will wait but will jump on it when I see the good fare.