Moscow visit as long as we are that close!

We are interested in a Baltic cruise that stops in St. Petersburg overnight and then ultimately ends in Stockholm. Since we may never get back to that part of the world we think we should go to Moscow for 2 or 3 days. So here are my questions:

1. I understand if we book a private tour with a reputable co. for St. Petes, they will give us our Visa's for the tour. Will we need another Visa for Moscow?

2. Should we train or plane. Time & money differences?

3. Is 2 full days enough to see the major sites or do we need 3?

4. Would we be smart to hire the same tour co. from St. Petes to take us around Moscow or is there a better way to find a guide?

I think that's it. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.

I'm a bit confused here. You say the cruise stops overnight in St Petersburg, by which I presume you mean that it stops for just the one night. But you are talking about going to Moscow for 2 or 3 days. Do you mean going after the cruise ends in Stockholm?

Regarding visas, the private tour companies (and the ship's tours) cover you with a group visa but only so long as you are part of the tour. If you are independently going to travel to Moscow, you will need to apply for individual Russian visas.

I'm a bit confused here. You say the cruise stops overnight in St Petersburg, by which I presume you mean that it stops for just the one night. But you are talking about going to Moscow for 2 or 3 days. Do you mean going after the cruise ends in Stockholm? Regarding visas, the private tour companies (and the ship's tours) cover you with a group visa but only so long as you are part of the tour. If you are independently going to travel to Moscow, you will need to apply for individual Russian visas.

Agree strongly with the concerns/comments by aquilegia about the confusion on the original questions. Tell us more!!! Help clarify. If you were to fly to Moscow after completing your cruise in Stockholm, you would then need a Russian Visa. More complicated and costly!

You might consider the option we did. Do a cruise that offers three days and two nights in St. Petersburg. You won't need a visa under that timing. On one of our days, we did Moscow. In 2008, it was by air. Now, the trains are faster and that works well. Below are notes on what we did and how. That still leaves two full days to see the great options in and around St. Petersburg. With a good private tour and just a small group, that can work well.

Reactions and added questions? Below are some of my visuals from our visit to Moscow. Agree that when you are this close, it would be great to see both. In order to get the three days in St. Petersburg, you might need to use one of the smaller and/or more luxury cruise lines. Most of the larger, "mass" cruise lines will do only two days in St. Petersburg.

The high-speed train connection does make a big, big difference currently. We did the one-day Moscow trip in 2008 by the air connections. I'll offer up some added background, along with various pro/con factors for your consideration. My wife thought it was lots of money, but she viewed it as very much worth it after completing the trip as a "once in a lifetime" experience.

CON FACTORS: It's a long day! Leave the ship early (greeted by a small welcoming band dockside); get back to the St. Petersburg airport around midnight and back to the ship a little before 1 am. Moscow is a super large city of over ten million people. There has been huge growth in the suburbs of this city during the past decades or so. Traffic and time from the airport to the main downtown takes about an hour, but the train takes your directly into the heart of this large city. Since we had to drive in from the airport, we had a good feel as we traveled into town through the coach windows about the “new Moscow” with its suburban growth, commerce, advertising, capitalism, big box stores, etc.

PRO FACTORS: Moscow has its unique history, sights and sites, from Ivan the Terrible up through Lenin, Stalin and the new Russian leaders of today. After a long ride in from the airport on the outer edge of this large metro areas of 17.3 million (with 10.5 million in the city), we stopped at a new hotel for coffee/tea/break. Then, we rode the Moscow subway and saw a couple of their very unique and artistic stations. Stalin at the time called these stations “People’s Palaces”. This Moscow Metro was first opened in 1935 and now has 182 stations, 12 different lines,187 miles of routes and carries seven million passengers each weekday. It’s the world second busiest subway system. This subway ride offered a good sampling of real life for people who live and work in Moscow. We then saw more key places enroute, including the home of the Bolshoi Ballet, KGB Headquarters, various Stalin-era buildings, etc. Then we went to the Kremlin with its 19 historic towers. WOW, we were really there!

Inside the Kremlin are three key “super stars”. First, was the State Armoury with its spectacular Faberge Eggs, plus so many carriages, crowns, gowns, jewels, etc. Second are the various historic Cathedrals within the Kremlin Walls, plus the Tower Bells, Icon art, etc. This includes the Cathedral of the Annunciation built in the 1480’s and having such spectacular wall murals and icons. Third, was the Great Kremlin Palace with its spectacular reception halls, inlaid wood floors, gold and more gold, fancy ceilings, etc. The Czars were crowned here, plus the current heads of the Russian government, etc. The size and scale of these areas are hard to describe in words, let alone reflect and capture the history that has happened in some of these rooms dating back to the late 1400’s. We have seen lots of great palaces all over Europe, but this is something above and beyond for the eyes, heart and brain.

Then, we saw more building inside the walls of the Kremlin. We went outside of the Kremlin Walls and walked next door to adjoining Red Square, seeing St. Basil’s and the re-done Gum Department Store. Red Square is so historic, especially having grown up seeing the military May Day parades there, visuals of Lenin’s Tomb, etc. Have the words “spectacular” and historic been used too much? Maybe, but it fits for many of these unique places. St. Basil’s was built 1555–1561 on the order of Ivan IV (the Terrible). It was the tallest building in Moscow until the completion of the Ivan the Great Bell Tower (266 feet tall) in 1600 inside the Kremlin Walls. To be able to “CONTRAST” and compare Moscow and St. Petersburg during these three short days adds to the benefits of seeing both of these great Russian capital cities. Each is a very different and special city.

We finished with dinner in the Central Writers’ Club, a one hundred years old mansion made into a restaurant with crystal chandeliers, rich wood panelling, fireplaces, and antique balustrades.

Is one day too short and limited? YES! You can, however, do and see lots in only that one short day. You get a small sampling above. How often do you get to Russia? The Cold War might not come back in full force, but there are going to be increasing and revisited tensions in future years involving Russia and getting access there. They have done this tour many times and have its details down well and timing perfected. Let me know any questions, thoughts or reactions.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2010, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 117,472 views.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

Walking on the famed Red Square of Moscow. This square separates the Kremlin, as the former royal citadel and the current official residence for Russia's President, from a historic merchant quarter. Red Square is often considered the central square of Moscow and all of Russia, because Moscow's major streets originate from here. The name Red Square comes neither from the color of the bricks nor from the link between the color red and communism. The name came about because of a Russian word that can mean either "red" or "beautiful". This word, per Wikipedia, has the meaning "beautiful", was originally applied to Saint Basil's Cathedral. Then, later, the meaning was transferred to the nearby square. It is believed that the square acquired its current name in the 17th century. Red Square was the leading stage and trade center for Moscow. Ivan the Great decreed that trade should only be conducted from person to person, but later these rules were relaxed and permanent market buildings began appearing on the square. After a fire in 1547, Ivan the Terrible reorganized the lines of wooden shops on the Eastern side into market lines and part of that transitioned into what is now GUM department store that adjoins this famed square.:

St. Basil's sits on Red Square and dates back to its 1555-61 construction on the orders of Ivan the Terrible (Ivan IV). It commemorates the capture of Kazan and Astrakhan and marks the geometric center of the city. This location has been the hub of its growth for Moscow since the 14th century. It was the tallest building in Moscow until the completion of the Ivan the Great Bell Tower in 1600. This church was near destroyed in the 1930’s when Stalin was in control.:

The domes of the historic church inside the walls of the Kremlin:

This is the interior for Moscow's most historic church, Assumption Cathedral or the Cathedral of the Dormition, inside the Kremlin walls. It is the mother church of Muscovite Russia. The church stands on Cathedral Square and was built in 1475–1479 by the Italian architect Aristotele Fioravanti. It was erected on the spot of an older 14th century cathedral of the same name:

Here is a small sampling of the Kremlin Royal Treasures of the Czars: Eggs & Jewels inside the famed State Armoury in Moscow. One of the oldest museums in Moscow, it was established in 1808 and located within the Kremlin Walls. It originated as the royal arsenal in 1508 during when it was in charge of producing, purchasing and storing weapons, jewelry and various household articles of the Tsars. There are ten Fabergé eggs in the Armoury collection (all Imperial eggs). This is the most Imperial eggs, and the second-most overall Fabergé eggs, owned by a single owner. The Trans-Siberian Railway Egg is a jeweled Easter egg made under the supervision of the Russian jeweler Peter Carl Fabergé in 1900 for Tsar Nicholas II of Russia. It was presented by Nicolas II as an Easter gift to his wife. The exterior of the 1900 Trans-Siberian Railway egg is made of onyx, silver, gold, and quartz, and is decorated with colored vitreous enamel. The lid of the egg is hinged, has an overlay of green enamel, and is decorated with inlaid leaves of acanthus. On top of the lid is a golden three-headed eagle in gold with the Imperial Crown. The interior is lined with velvet. A route map of the Trans-Siberian Railway is engraved in silver across the face, with major stations marked by a precious stone, forming a belt around the egg. The egg is supported by three griffins made of gold-plated silver on a stepped triangular base of white onyx.:

The Russian subways are called the “People’s Palaces” with their marble coverings and unique designs for each of the different and many stations. This visual is from Moscow, but you have similar to see in St. Petersburg. Very interesting!!:

Thank you so much for all your replies. To unconfuse facts (I hope), we are looking at a RCL 7 night scan Russia cruise that has 2 days and 1 night in St. Petes. The cruise ends in Stockholm so we would be getting to Moscow from there. To be honest I did a Berlin tour from our port that docked 3 hours away, and even though we saw so many things, we were tired from the travel. I would rather spend a bit more and have 2 or 3 days. So unless we have tour set up for the entire time we're in Moscow we will need to buy Visas. Correct? And the fast train is better then flying? I assume it's closer to the city center, but is it more expensive then air? Again, Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

If you're coming from Stockholm, I wouldn't even worry about train. It will be far too long.

The issue with visas isn't really a big deal. In fact, I think it's less of a deal than trying to squeeze everything in a rush, especially as you say it won't be visited often. Sure, it's something extra to organise, but it's not that big a deal. You are correct that you need to have your visa organised.

It's a multi-step process for tourists. You need to have a booking with a hotel/tourist provider. They will provide you with an 'invitation.' When you have that, you can then organise a visa from your local embassy/consulate.

With the tours as well, there's very little time to spend anywhere, including shopping. You're only getting a taste of everything. Personally, if you have the opportunity, I favour spending a few days there as you suggest. It will give you a much better idea.

Note that hotel accommodation in Moscow is especially pricey though, especially if you want a high standard. On the downside, Moscow isn't a great 'tourist' city, and English isn't widely spoken. However, young people and tourist stores/hotels will manage, but it is harder to get around independantly than other European countries.

We will be on the June 18, 2014 Legend of the Seas cruise from Copenhagen to Stockholm - with 3 days in St. Petersburg. We will tour St. Petersburg on days 1 and 3, and Moscow on day 2 via train - all arranged by Alla Tours: http://www.alla-tour.com/. Since you want to spend more than one day in Moscow, you would fly there from Stockholm and arrange for your own Russian visas, as others have suggested.

Another option is a more in-depth land tour, such as one Rick Steves offers to Tallinn, Helsinki, and St. Petersburg (http://tours.ricksteves.com/tours/st-petersburg-helsinki-tallinn?year=2014). Since that tour ends in St. Petersburg, you could fly or take the train to Moscow. You would have to get a Russian visa for this tour, so it would also cover you in Moscow (http://tours.ricksteves.com/tours/content/sth/faq.cfm)

Nancyil, you are on the Legend's 11 day right before us! Ours begins on June 29. I've been to the stops at the beginning of your cruise, which is why I was so excited about a 7 day w/ 2 St. Petes days! I know most of the time those kind's of cruises are either longer or $$$$. Moscow was an after thought since we are in that part of the world and may not be again. Have a great time and let me know if there's something I shouldn't miss when I go. Thanks again to everyone who helped me.

Why stress yourself with such a long trip for a short time in Moscow? Go back to Russia on a river cruise and spend four days in Moscow.

We just did exactly what you are planning except we did Moscow before our cruise so my advice is pretty well current. We flew in from Berlin and out to Stockholm. FWIW Sheremetyvo (sp) airport was significantly better than Domodedovo (sp) We had 2 3/4 days, and 3/4 was a Monday which was a bit of a waste as many things were closed BUT we did go to the Boyars Palace which was one of the highlights becuase of the other closures. All written info was in Russian and English

I had very little issue with the Visa other than filling out the long form online for all the countries we had visited.

We only had a few hitches travelling around, one on the metro but the "gate lady" despite not speaking english pointed on the map and we communicated effectively with sign language. If using the metro it pays to plan your journey ahead of time.

This is what we did:

Spent first night wandering around Red Square and it was much less crowded as the cruise tours were all gone. Great photos especially Gum with the lights on.

Day 1: Kremlin: Took 45 mins to queue for tickets (this is where a guide is handy) but we had the opportunity to look around inside ourselves and buy Diamond fun tickets when in the Armory. Many ships tours are not allowed in the Diamond fund (too many people at once). (take food!)

Afternoon: St Basils, Gum and Tsum, Teatralnaya area (Bolshoi etc)

Day 2: Pushkin Museum (1 pax) and a special personalised event. (the other 2 pax)

Afternoon: Cosmonaut Museum

Evening was a religious festival as there were lost so streets closed and stall etc up. Soaked in the atmosphere

Day 3: Monday- Had planned Gorky Park. Did Boyars then walked along the river and up to Arbatskaya. Souvenir shopping (failed). late lunch back at Gum then airport much earlier than needed (we had based on the 1hr+ to get in a DME and took 3 mins at Immi at SVO.

We missed things we wanted to see, Gorky Park, Historical Museum etc. But had prioritised.

Reasons for not going on the ship tour:

Armory and Diamond Fund

Space Museum

Being able to walk around once the cruises had left (including those on the river cruises docked overnight) as the place became much more like a place people lived

English Speaking: Other than the metro we had no problems. I had written instructions for buying tickets etc in Russian, never needed them. I made sure maps had both English and Cyrillic on them because there were only a few signs in English. Every where we went had written info in English and Russian and if it ididn't they gave you an audio guide.