credit card usage

Has anyone had any issues using their credit cards in London at all. Someone mentioned to me that they were asked for pin numbers and I thought that was a bit odd. Can anyone elaborate on that?

We have the chip in some cards here they are gradually switching them over.

It seem more common in Europe

 

You can read more about it

http://www.visa.ca/chip/

hmmmmmmm..very interesting..thanks for the tip..

although after doing some add'l research it seems the USA hasnt adopted this technology yet...hopefully i dont have any issues...did anyone else have any issues from the USA with the UK chip readers they now have..supposedly, it's hit or miss ..the machines are able to read the magnetic swipes still and basically it boils down to staff who just do not know how to handle american credit cards with the swipes since they all now use the chip cards over there...any other feedback from the USA market on this????

we were just in London and used a credit card that does not have the new chip technology - so all credit card slips needed signature..

 

If your card has the new chip technology - the card gets placed in a slot at the front of the machine - it reads the info (rather than swipe down the side) and then you enter your PIN just like you would with your ATM bank card.... with this technology - you do not need to sign the transaction slip.

 

I would not worry - while the new chip technology is not yet applied all over the world, both systems of credit card usage are in effect.

 

Carol

Thanks..I dont think the USA has this technology even available so that's why i was worried. And I had just heard some people were getting their credit cards rejected so it's a concern..i suppose in major hotels/restaurants/stores, it's probably not an issue ..just a problem in the mom/pop shops...thanks

Well I'm going to throw a spanner in the works here :)

 

I live in the UK and already here the banks are moving on from 'chip and pin'. My bank has sent me a new debit card ... apparantly all I have to do is 'wave' the card at some kind of machine :confused: and the money is taken from my account.

 

I'm not liking this idea at all, I was happy with the 'Pin' method. I refuse to believe 'Paywave' can be a safe way of making a payment. I have shredded mine, hopefully the citizens of the UK will unite and do the same with theirs.

Thanks..I dont think the USA has this technology even available so that's why i was worried. And I had just heard some people were getting their credit cards rejected so it's a concern..i suppose in major hotels/restaurants/stores, it's probably not an issue ..just a problem in the mom/pop shops...thanks

 

I've travelled out of the US (not to England, though) and the first time I did it, I found out about the PIN numbers -- we of course don't use them here in the US, but every credit card I have, has a PIN number attached to it, which I found out about by calling the credit card company and asking. It's also a good idea to tell the credit card company that you are going out of the country -- otherwise they'll put an "alert" on your card and stop payment on "suspicious" charges...which will mean you' won't be able to use your card!

 

The "wave your card" thing is happening here in the US, too. There's a chip embedded in the card so all you have to do is hold it up to the machine (at the sites who have that technology), and the site machine will 'read" the chip in your card, and the charge will appear on your credit card, as usual. Here in the US I've most often seen them at toll booths on highways, but they're beginning to appear in unlikly places lilke drive-through restaurants -- you just hold up your card and pass on through.

 

I don't have a problem with it..you can always dispute charges that might appear on your bill. People worried a lot when on-line shopping was starting out that they'd be charged incorrectly. I'm sure it does happen occasionally -- but I've been doing that for years without any difficulties, so I'm sure I'll use the "wave through" when it becomes available to me.

the machines are able to read the magnetic swipes still and basically it boils down to staff who just do not know how to handle american credit cards with the swipes since they all now use the chip cards over there

Unfortunately, whenever there is a generally-used system and a small number of exceptional cases, there will always be some staff training issues about what to do in relation to the exceptional cases.

 

But the basic position is clear: foreign cards that do not have a UK-readable chip are acceptable with traditional signature verification.

That's good to know. It was like that when I was last there. We here in Canada are just starting the transition--my VISA card is now chip and pin, and I have yet to use it in any but the traditional way, even in large stores.

It all depends on the merchant and their understanding of the processes. We were in

Manchester last year and a restaurant would not take our Visa card because it did not have

a chip. After much discussion, they accepted our non-chip Mastercard without question.

Go figure. The Visa card was accepted everywhere else we presented it.

But the basic position is clear: foreign cards that do not have a UK-readable chip are acceptable with traditional signature verification.

 

Well.... not exactly. Try buying a ticket or refilling an Oyster Card with an American credit card at an Underground station without queuing and having the ticket agent do it. Basically, the biggest problem that I have found involves unattended kiosks, which show up a lot in transportation terminals not just in the UK, but all over Europe. There's no way around it, you need a human. And more and more stations are unattended at various times.

Well.... not exactly. Try buying a ticket or refilling an Oyster Card with an American credit card at an Underground station without queuing and having the ticket agent do it. Basically, the biggest problem that I have found involves unattended kiosks ...

Unattended machines could never do traditional signature verification, so I don't see what's in the least bit inaccurate about what I said.

I have spoken to my credit card company about this very thing just a few days ago. I was told that you do not need a pin for purchases with a credit card, but will need one for cash advances, Perhaps you need a pin for using your card at unmanned kiosks as well.

What the other poster said is correct about un-manned ticket kiosks. Automatic payment machines are now pretty much set up for reading chip and cards and will not accept cards that do not have an embedded chip on them (so pretty much all USA cards)

 

In this situation, make payment with a credit card to a real person, if available, or have some cash as a back up.

 

All chip and pin machines in shops will have a magnetic swipe on them too, but often they rarely get used. If the assistant looks at you blankly when you come to pay, suggest they try swiping your card instead "just to see what happens"; and then the machine will take it from there!

We also were just in London for a week, and we used our Capital One credit Card as often as possible. I read about the chip, here on CC, and when I got the card, I asked Capital One about it. they told me it was not available for the average consumer as of yet and the regular credit card would be fine. I can attest to that. We charged as every opportunity, in resautants, in Taxi's, at tourist attractions, and never had one problem with this card.

They are corect in that you cannot use the card if there is no one there to give a signature to, but all else is fair game. Charge away.

Unattended machines could never do traditional signature verification, so I don't see what's in the least bit inaccurate about what I said.

 

Don't you have machines which allow you to sign a plastic panel with an attached electronic pen? Quite common here, although whether they are actually verifying signatures or just collecting a handwriting sample to aid in later prosecution is unclear.

 

Possibly Europe diverges from the US on this, but it is easy to make small credit card purchases at unattended machines here without being asked for a signature or any proof that you haven't just mugged someone for their card. For example, many parking garages allow you to swipe a card to enter and and to leave, charging the card for the elapsed parking time, and NJ Transit, which operates suburban trains out of New York, accepts credit cards at unattended ticket kiosks. In fact, our local supermarket just raised the threshold for requiring a signature to $50, from a previous $25.

Don't you have machines which allow you to sign a plastic panel with an attached electronic pen? Quite common here, although whether they are actually verifying signatures or just collecting a handwriting sample to aid in later prosecution is unclear.

I know the machines you mean, but I've never seen them here. I don't believe that the machines verify the signature, because that would require data transfer and analysis of a very high and complex order. They simply record the signature much as it would be recorded on a piece of paper; only they do this electronically to avoid having reams of paper to deal with.

Possibly Europe diverges from the US on this, but it is easy to make small credit card purchases at unattended machines here without being asked for a signature or any proof that you haven't just mugged someone for their card.

This was always very rare here, and is pretty much unknown now that Chip and PIN is fully installed. It is a real surprise to find any retailer who will accept a credit card without requiring verification of one type or another. Traditionally, this meant signature for all transactions.

 

Very recently there have been some systems being trialled which will accept cards for very low value transactions without verification (possibly because they're fast-linked to stolen card databases - but that's speculation on my part). But these are also very rare indeed.

Today's NY Times has a good summary of the situation (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/04/travel/04pracchip.html?_r=1&ref=travel), along with the welcome news that Travelex is apparently working on a preloaded chip-and-PIN card.

 

Incidentally, a poster on our Celebrity Roll Call claims that debit and credit card PINs starting with zero are often rejected by international ATMs. Has anyone run across this?

No problems last summer for us in London and southern England using our credit cards for cash, etc.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

holy moly! lots of info...glad i brought the topic up! i hope lots of people are reading this...it's very important to go to overseas knowing all this information...thanx all!

The chip and pin machine at the restaurant/store is using exactly the same pin number that you use at the atm machine.

 

Have any US visitors actually tried to use their card in a chip/pin reader in the UK and entered their atm pin number ?

 

Just curious.

 

Also, now that chip/pin is in the UK a store/restaurant is NOT protected against fraud if they decide to accept the old-fashioned signature method.

 

That could explain why they are reluctant to train their staff and/or accept that old method.

 

Paul

Also, now that chip/pin is in the UK a store/restaurant is NOT protected against fraud if they decide to accept the old-fashioned signature method.

 

That could explain why they are reluctant to train their staff and/or accept that old method.

Yes it could, although as I understand the position I think that this would be a misunderstanding of the scope of the protection. The merchant is not protected against fraud if they accept a signature when the card is chip and PIN-capable. But if the card has no chip and signature verification is the only way, then the normal fraud protection exists.

But the basic position is clear: foreign cards that do not have a UK-readable chip are acceptable with traditional signature verification.

 

I am sure you must agree that 'traditional signature verification' is a very loose series of words.

 

We all know that our signature is never exactly the same and to have a store clerk really tell the difference between mine and a good con-artist's would be asking a lot and bound to lead to confrontations if there should be a problem.

 

When signing for a small purchase in the US I hardly ever use my real 'signature'. A simple scratch will do. But when it involves more than a few dollars, the clerk should ask for my ID, such as a driver's license with my picture, to 'verify' that I am whom I claim to be. This request is recorded on the back of my credit card.

I don't believe that is used in the UK, or is it?

 

I am sure the chip method will come to us, but in the mean time clerks should not only 'verify signatures' but also have a picture of the person to 'verify' who they are. But, again, this should apply to fairly large purchases and not toll booths and grocery store items.

I am sure you must agree that 'traditional signature verification' is a very loose series of words.

I'm not here to debate the merits of traditional signature verification, nor the standard to which the task is performed.

 

Everyone knows what I mean by traditional signature verification. A slip is produced for you to sign, you sign it, the merchant checks the signature against the signature on the strip on the back of the card. That's how it's been done all over the world for decades.

 

And the only point I am making here - which I hope will help at least some travellers - is that in the UK, where chip and PIN is the normal method of verification, if you have a foreign card that does not have a UK-readable chip, then your card is still acceptable with traditional signature verification.

 

Or, if those words are too complicated to understand: bring your US card and use it like you do at home.