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Old vs New Locks


jealdaka
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Maybe this is a dumb question but I have to ask. With the new locks now open are they still using the old ones? If so, how do you know which ships will go through which ones?

 

Yes, both sets of locks are in operation. "Panamax" ships (the maximum size that could fit in the old locks) and smaller ships will continue to use the old locks. Only ships between the "Panamax" and "Neopanamax" (the maximum size for the new locks) will use the new locks. So, if a cruise ship has done the transit before, it will continue to use the old locks.

Edited by chengkp75
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On the Atlantic side yes, however on the Pacific side somewhat obscured while you are actually in the original locks. Unless there is a ship in the new locks there may not be much to see as they have a low profile when compared to the terrain and natural growth. You will be able to see the sea entrance to the new locks from the channel as you make an approach/exit to the original locks.

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Yes, both sets of locks are in operation. "Panamax" ships (the maximum size that could fit in the old locks) and smaller ships will continue to use the old locks. Only ships between the "Panamax" and "Neopanamax" (the maximum size for the new locks) will use the new locks. So, if a cruise ship has done the transit before, it will continue to use the old locks.

 

I believe Princess has a cruise next year that specifically says new locks. Maybe just a one off.

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I believe Princess has a cruise next year that specifically says new locks. Maybe just a one off.

 

That would be the Caribbean Princess in October 2017, she will be doing partial transits for the fall/winter season. Meanwhile Princess' other "Canal" ships will be doing multiple full transits over the season. Whether or not the Caribbean Princess is the first cruise ship to use the new locks... it does have the first reservation:)!

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Hello,

Which popular ships will now be welcome into the new locks, for those of us who would return for a cruise with a full passage (Florida to California, etc.). Some of us really appreciate the expanded options found with a larger ship (and obviously these are more profitable?) as we enjoy show stages and contemporary attempts to minimize troublesome ship movements. We remember even a San Juan to Costa Rica (relatively short) cruise that ended with a multiple-day coach tour in Costa Rica (never again)?

DJ:)

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Hello,

Which popular ships will now be welcome into the new locks, for those of us who would return for a cruise with a full passage (Florida to California, etc.). Some of us really appreciate the expanded options found with a larger ship (and obviously these are more profitable?) as we enjoy show stages and contemporary attempts to minimize troublesome ship movements. We remember even a San Juan to Costa Rica (relatively short) cruise that ended with a multiple-day coach tour in Costa Rica (never again)?

DJ:)

 

Actually just about all of the larger mega ships are welcome, there are a few that are a tad too tall for the Bridge of Americas however. The Caribbean Princess is the only cruise ship so far scheduled to use the new locks. While the CP is a large ship, I would not put it in the same class as the Royal and Regal Princess or similar sized ship. Actually the Caribbean Princess length wise would fit nicely in the old locks and is only 12 too wide. In this case a miss by a foot is good as a miss by a mile:)!

 

Since cruise lines plan for their ship deployments 2 years out or so and the Canal expansion opening almost 2 years behind schedule, I'm not sure you will see much of anything with the larger ships until after 2018. Then again, there could be some change in their deployment strategy that provide some new itineraries.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Quite honestly, some of the larger ships would be real ill-suited for a panama canal cruise even if they do fit. With many ships no longer having any real promenade deck, you lose a lot of good locations for watching the passage from the ship. Some of these ships if you aren't on a balcony cabin, you're going to have problems finding a spot to watch things.

 

(Quite honestly, the rates for transiting the new locks are borderline insane, so that might cut down on the number of cruise lines that decide it's really worth it too.)

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Quite honestly, some of the larger ships would be real ill-suited for a panama canal cruise even if they do fit. With many ships no longer having any real promenade deck, you lose a lot of good locations for watching the passage from the ship. Some of these ships if you aren't on a balcony cabin, you're going to have problems finding a spot to watch things.

 

(Quite honestly, the rates for transiting the new locks are borderline insane, so that might cut down on the number of cruise lines that decide it's really worth it too.)

 

Agree, ships without the traditional promenade will find about the only public space for viewing on the upper decks which is fine for vistas, but not as good for seeing your ship squeeze through the locks.

 

Actually the tolls for the new locks are not that much greater than with the old locks. The total dollar figure will be somewhat more, but that will be due largely because the ship is carrying more "cargo"... ie. passengers!:) A new toll rate went into effect in April, cruise ships using the old locks saw the toll rate increase from $134 to $138 per passenger berth, while ships using the new locks the toll was established at $148 ppb. A cruise ship with a 3500 passenger capacity will certainly have a heftier toll than the 2000 passenger ship, but the higher toll will be spread amongst more heads in the bed.

 

Another thing to consider about the tolls for cruise ships, while cargo ships have to include the cost of transiting the Canal in the rates they charge for shipment of cargo on their vessel, the cruise lines don't have to do that. Cruise lines establish the fare for the type cabin you wish to book and the tolls are a separate charge, placed in the tax and port fees section of the fare. So once the ship is filled, the passengers have already paid the Canal tolls and the cruise line has the fare for the cabin they sold you. Typically if you look at a 10 day non Canal Caribbean cruise, taxes and port fees run around $120 per passenger, while a 10 day Canal cruise will come in over $300pp. Tolls first, transit later:)!

 

A side note, just recently a fairly large container vessel, but not the largest that the Canal can accommodate paid a whopping $800K+ to transit. The Panama Canal does have to be concerned that it doesn't price it self too high since the Suez Canal is not quite as expensive in their tolls... so there is a little competition.

 

Another side note, although they are not in the business to drive away customers, the Canal really would not take a huge hit if all passenger ships stopped using the Canal. Less than 2% of all Canal transits are passenger ships.

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(Quite honestly, the rates for transiting the new locks are borderline insane, so that might cut down on the number of cruise lines that decide it's really worth it too.)

 

Well, insane for a pleasure cruise...perhaps. But people are very willing to pay.

 

As to cargo shipping, insane? Not if you compare the cost of shipping "around the horn", both in time and money. That is the whole reason behind the success of the Canal- cheaper and faster through the Canal then the alternatives.

 

The Canal is at or near capacity. There has been no decrease in business, only steady growth. Why decrease the rates?

Edited by CruiserBruce
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  • 2 months later...
Agree, ships without the traditional promenade will find about the only public space for viewing on the upper decks which is fine for vistas, but not as good for seeing your ship squeeze through the locks.

Actually the tolls for the new locks are not that much greater than with the old locks. The total dollar figure will be somewhat more, but that will be due largely because the ship is carrying more "cargo"... ie. passengers!:) A new toll rate went into effect in April, cruise ships using the old locks saw the toll rate increase from $134 to $138 per passenger berth, while ships using the new locks the toll was established at $148 ppb. A cruise ship with a 3500 passenger capacity will certainly have a heftier toll than the 2000 passenger ship, but the higher toll will be spread amongst more heads in the bed.

Another thing to consider about the tolls for cruise ships, while cargo ships have to include the cost of transiting the Canal in the rates they charge for shipment of cargo on their vessel, the cruise lines don't have to do that. Cruise lines establish the fare for the type cabin you wish to book and the tolls are a separate charge, placed in the tax and port fees section of the fare. So once the ship is filled, the passengers have already paid the Canal tolls and the cruise line has the fare for the cabin they sold you. Typically if you look at a 10 day non Canal Caribbean cruise, taxes and port fees run around $120 per passenger, while a 10 day Canal cruise will come in over $300pp. Tolls first, transit later:)!

A side note, just recently a fairly large container vessel, but not the largest that the Canal can accommodate paid a whopping $800K+ to transit. The Panama Canal does have to be concerned that it doesn't price it self too high since the Suez Canal is not quite as expensive in their tolls... so there is a little competition.

Another side note, although they are not in the business to drive away customers, the Canal really would not take a huge hit if all passenger ships stopped using the Canal. Less than 2% of all Canal transits are passenger ships.

 

WOW!! This is super great background on the Panama Canal, its costs, use, etc. Very interesting!! Am looking to do a Fort Lauderdale to San Francisco cruise through the Panama Canal in late February-early March 2017. This would be our first time for visiting Columbia, Panama Canal, Central America, etc. BUT, surprise, I cannot seem to find a specific Cruise Critic board for Nicaragua. Am I, a fairly experienced CC board veteran, missing something or looking in the wrong places?

 

Any special secrets, ideas, suggestions, experiences, etc., to share as to where is best to feed our interests in history, photography, nature, sampling the people and character of this area, etc.?? Just doing too much of the usual tourist stops/shopping is not our priority and/or interest. We will have stops in Cartagena/Colombia, Puntarenas/Costa Rica, San Juan del Sur/Nicaragua and Cabo San Lucas/Mexico.

 

Any key photo tips for locations to use or avoid while transiting the Panama Canal? Other ideas for where to be and ideas while doing our first Panama Canal trip?

 

THANKS for the help! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

From our Jan. 25-Feb. 20, 2015, Amazon River-Caribbean combo sailing over 26 days that started in Barbados, here is the link below to that live/blog. Lots of great visuals from this amazing Brazil river and these various Caribbean Islands (Dutch ABC's, St. Barts, Dominica, Grenada, etc.) that we experienced. Check it out at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2157696

Now at 43,548 views for these postings.

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Any key photo tips for locations to use or avoid while transiting the Panama Canal? Other ideas for where to be and ideas while doing our first Panama Canal trip?

 

I think that most people's favorite photo spot on the Canal transit is from the forward part of the ship catching the first set of gates opening. In your direction that will at Gatun Locks. The problem here is just about everyone has the same idea! The only solution is to stake your claim early, no matter how early you get out there, you won't be by yourself.

 

For the remainder of your transit there will be lots of things to put the camera on... after leaving Gatun Locks you will cross Gatun Lake and this will be the best time to encounter oncoming ship traffic. After passing Gamboa where the Chagres River empties into the Canal, you will enter Gaillard (Culebra) Cut where the bulk of the Canal excavation took place and is still ongoing to this day. While in the Cut you will sail under the Centennial Bridge... certainly a Kodak moment. In addition the Bridge you will sail past Gold Hill which marks the Continental Divide and has been a continual source of geologic instability as in landslides. Then onto the two Pacific Locks, the Bridge of Americas, the skyline of Panama City along with the several islands in Panama Bay. In short plenty of opportunities to use up a bunch of megabytes of storage.

 

Overall the best advice for your transit is don't be too stationary as in homesteading your balcony, even though it does sound very attractive. Things do happen slowly at the Canal and normally you will have plenty of time to position yourself to see items of interest.

 

Have a great transit!!

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Any key photo tips for locations to use or avoid while transiting the Panama Canal? Other ideas for where to be and ideas while doing our first Panama Canal trip?

 

I think that most people's favorite photo spot on the Canal transit is from the forward part of the ship catching the first set of gates opening. In your direction that will at Gatun Locks. The problem here is just about everyone has the same idea! The only solution is to stake your claim early, no matter how early you get out there, you won't be by yourself.

 

For the remainder of your transit there will be lots of things to put the camera on... after leaving Gatun Locks you will cross Gatun Lake and this will be the best time to encounter oncoming ship traffic. After passing Gamboa where the Chagres River empties into the Canal, you will enter Gaillard (Culebra) Cut where the bulk of the Canal excavation took place and is still ongoing to this day. While in the Cut you will sail under the Centennial Bridge... certainly a Kodak moment. In addition the Bridge you will sail past Gold Hill which marks the Continental Divide and has been a continual source of geologic instability as in landslides. Then onto the two Pacific Locks, the Bridge of Americas, the skyline of Panama City along with the several islands in Panama Bay. In short plenty of opportunities to use up a bunch of megabytes of storage.

 

Overall the best advice for your transit is don't be too stationary as in homesteading your balcony, even though it does sound very attractive. Things do happen slowly at the Canal and normally you will have plenty of time to position yourself to see items of interest.

 

Have a great transit!!

 

Thanks! looks like good, sound advice. Can't wait to try it out!

 

Cheryl

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I think that most people's favorite photo spot on the Canal transit is from the forward part of the ship catching the first set of gates opening. In your direction that will at Gatun Locks. The problem here is just about everyone has the same idea! Overall the best advice for your transit is don't be too stationary as in homesteading your balcony, even though it does sound very attractive. Things do happen slowly at the Canal and normally you will have plenty of time to position yourself to see items of interest. Have a great transit!!

 

Yes, YES, agree with Cheryl that this is more wonderful info and insights. Very helpful!! Keep sharing. Look forward to any other experienced veterans posting their secrets and tips. Will be copying and saving these suggestions and ideas. Might have more questions later.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Enjoyed a 14-day, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Sydney to Auckland adventure, getting a big sampling for the wonders of "down under” before and after this cruise. Go to:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

for more info and many pictures of these amazing sights in this great part of the world. Now at 157,038 views for this posting.

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Glad to see this thread.

 

We're specifically waiting for a trip through the new locks just so we can say we've done both. -- Yes we are that childish.

 

The full transit is our favorite cruise so far. 2 weeks on a boat, and the trip through the canal is just amazing. Love hanging out on the balcony and watching the jungle glide by.

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  • 1 year later...

Well, I am really late to this thread, but I wanted to add a comment. I have done both a full transit (LA to Miami in Feb 2008) and a partial transit (Miami to Miami in Dec 2016). Both were on NCL [maiden voyage of the NCL Jade (but not the maiden voyage of the ship) and the NCL Pearl]. So why those two ships? Because both have forward facing balconies (my cabin was on the lower row, third from the port side both times) ...

 

i-qGTp7zJ-L.jpg

 

i-PTnDSXn-L.jpg

 

i-rQmFgFK-L.jpg

 

i-RMQf3pV-L.jpg

 

i-sHp4nhT-L.jpg

 

i-GJd7VFt-L.jpg

 

Here is a link to the 200 photos I took on the 2008 full transit ...

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-VnbZQS/i-gRpxXs2

 

and the 2016 partial transit (about 150 photographs) ...

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-nHf7fs/i-n2dVFNQ

 

If you want to see the larger photographs in SmugMug, just click on the photograph to the right of the thumbnails. Click on the left and right arrows to move through the album. Click on the white "X" in the upper right corner to return to the smaller photographs. The two arrows to the left of the white "X" will take you to full screen. The Esc key will bring you back. You can add comments to the photographs if you want (the comment section is just below the photographs).

Edited by Cuizer2
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I think I followed your transit when you posted originally, enjoyed them again. It's good to look through another lens. You will have to back and update your pics, the Atlantic Bridge which was under construction on your partial is structurally complete (just not open for traffic yet)... sure changes the appearance of Atlantic entrance of the Canal.

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  • 1 month later...

The Panama Canal is doing very well and although it is expensive to go through the canal, it's a lot less than going around So. America, considering time and fuel. The new locks are being used by bigger cruise ships, but those are limited by the height of the Bridge of the Americas. So the Mega ships like MSC Seaside probably can't go through. In the old canal the doors swing open, in the new canal the doors slide in and they are roughly the height of a 20 story building. We walked there before it was flooded. Attached are a couple of pictures. Our neighbor is a pilot on the canal and they had an open house for friends and family. 

image2.JPG

DSC_1343.JPG

DSC_1353.JPG

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