Are Cruises From One US City to Another US City Illegal?

Hello,

So I recently learned about the Jones Act when reading about how people couldn't do the Splendor 8 night from New York to San Juan, and then the 8 night from San Juan to New York, because of the Jones Act. They said that some did do both cruises, they just paid the fee that comes with the Jones Act. But it got me thinking....

I almost booked the 11 day Enchantment of the Seas Repo from Baltimore to Port Canaveral in April 2013, but decided against it later. Either way, both are US ports. I know it called in Labadee, Aruba, and Curacao, and some others. Also, the Norwegian Dawn goes from Boston to New Orleans, twice every year. Heck even Carnival has the Vista going from New York to Miami in one cruise. The Breeze is going from Miami to Galveston in one cruise. The Magic is going from Galveston to Port Canaveral in one cruise. By one cruise, I mean not stopping in San Juan, switching passengers, and going again. Panama Canal cruises happen often too, starting in California and ending in Florida. But then again, the Splendor doesn't do a cruise from Miami to Norfolk, or Norfolk to New York, for reasons I don't know.

So they may not be "illegal", but do they add the Jones Act fee to the cruise fare? I read $300 somewhere. Is it $300 per person, or $300 per cabin? Either way, does it play a factor in Carnival Journeys? Are there any exceptions to the law that does not involve going to San Juan?

Thanks to anyone who can help clear this up! :D

The ship has to go to a "distant" foreign port during the cruise. That's the requirement for the passenger version of the Jones Act.

I am sure someone with more knowledge then me will respond. But I beleive th general jist of it is since those cruises you mention all involve stopping in a foreign port it is ok. I beleive you run into trouble when you do a back to back where you start and finish in a different US port. Also keep in mind this rule only applies to non-US ships (US built, US owned, US employees). All carnival ships are non-US.

Hello,

 

So I recently learned about the Jones Act when reading about how people couldn't do the Splendor 8 night from New York to San Juan, and then the 8 night from San Juan to New York, because of the Jones Act. They said that some did do both cruises, they just paid the fee that comes with the Jones Act. But it got me thinking....

 

I almost booked the 11 day Enchantment of the Seas Repo from Baltimore to Port Canaveral in April 2013, but decided against it later. Either way, both are US ports. I know it called in Labadee, Aruba, and Curacao, and some others. Also, the Norwegian Dawn goes from Boston to New Orleans, twice every year. Heck even Carnival has the Vista going from New York to Miami in one cruise. The Breeze is going from Miami to Galveston in one cruise. The Magic is going from Galveston to Port Canaveral in one cruise. By one cruise, I mean not stopping in San Juan, switching passengers, and going again. Panama Canal cruises happen often too, starting in California and ending in Florida. But then again, the Splendor doesn't do a cruise from Miami to Norfolk, or Norfolk to New York, for reasons I don't know.

 

So they may not be "illegal", but do they add the Jones Act fee to the cruise fare? I read $300 somewhere. Is it $300 per person, or $300 per cabin? Either way, does it play a factor in Carnival Journeys? Are there any exceptions to the law that does not involve going to San Juan?

 

Thanks to anyone who can help clear this up! :D

For some reason the cruise lines cite the Jones Act which applies to freight or cargo.

Actually the Passenger Vessel Services Act requires that a foreign flagged vessel, transporting passengers between two US ports, must visit at least one "distant" foreign port. Note the term 'distant'. The law further reveals that there are no 'distant' foreign ports in North America or Central America.

To comply with the PVSA, a ship must visit a port like Curacao or Cartagena Colombia. (South America) Hence all full transit Panama Canal cruises stop at one of these ports on their voyage from Florida to California.

And no, no cruise line knowingly books passengers on an itinerary that violates the PVSA and then assesses the $300. fine on the passengers.

No jones penalty, as long as it stops at a foreign port. That is why the Seattle Alaska cruises stop in Vancouver. However with this said you will need passports since it is not a"closed loop" cruise.

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So they may not be "illegal", but do they add the Jones Act fee to the cruise fare? I read $300 somewhere. Is it $300 per person, or $300 per cabin? Either way, does it play a factor in Carnival Journeys? Are there any exceptions to the law that does not involve going to San Juan?

There are "exceptions", only they're a part of the law. The ship must stop in a distant foreign port when traveling between two US ports. According to Jones Act/PVSA, the closest distant ports to the US are ABC Islands; that's Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao.

I'm not exactly sure why they're "distant", while Central American countries at the same distance from the US are not. I think they're classified as belonging to South America, which makes them distant in the eyes of the Jones Act/PVSA.

Thanks for all of the quick responses, it makes sense now!

No jones penalty, as long as it stops at a foreign port. That is why the Seattle Alaska cruises stop in Vancouver. However with this said you will need passports since it is not a"closed loop" cruise.

 

 

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All Seattle cruises are closed loop cruises. You cannot sail from Seattle to Anchorage or visa versa. Most Seattle cruises visit Victoria on Vancouver Island. Passports or birth certificates and photo ID suffice.

One-way Alaska cruises invariably begin or end in Vancouver. Hence they do not transport passengers from one US port to another US port and are not covered by the PVSA. And, as you say, passports required.

The OP is asking about one-way cruises from one US port to another.

Hello,

 

So I recently learned about the Jones Act when reading about how people couldn't do the Splendor 8 night from New York to San Juan, and then the 8 night from San Juan to New York, because of the Jones Act. They said that some did do both cruises, they just paid the fee that comes with the Jones Act. But it got me thinking....

 

I almost booked the 11 day Enchantment of the Seas Repo from Baltimore to Port Canaveral in April 2013, but decided against it later. Either way, both are US ports. I know it called in Labadee, Aruba, and Curacao, and some others. Also, the Norwegian Dawn goes from Boston to New Orleans, twice every year. Heck even Carnival has the Vista going from New York to Miami in one cruise. The Breeze is going from Miami to Galveston in one cruise. The Magic is going from Galveston to Port Canaveral in one cruise. By one cruise, I mean not stopping in San Juan, switching passengers, and going again. Panama Canal cruises happen often too, starting in California and ending in Florida. But then again, the Splendor doesn't do a cruise from Miami to Norfolk, or Norfolk to New York, for reasons I don't know.

 

So they may not be "illegal", but do they add the Jones Act fee to the cruise fare? I read $300 somewhere. Is it $300 per person, or $300 per cabin? Either way, does it play a factor in Carnival Journeys? Are there any exceptions to the law that does not involve going to San Juan?

 

Thanks to anyone who can help clear this up! :D

A cruise between two US cities that stops in a Distant Foreign is legal. Panama Canal cruises are legal because they stop in a Distant Foreign port. Any cruise between two UC cities that stops in Aruba , Curacao or Cartagana are legal.

The Jones Act properly called the PVSA has a penalty of about $30K per person .

You can bet the cruise lines wouldn't open theirselves to that kind of legal problems. They have to many lawyers on their staff.

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The RCCL Enchantment cruise would have been allowed because it stopped at least one distant foreign port....Aruba or Curacao.

For example it would be illegal to cruise from New York to Miami without going to Aruba, Bonaire or Curacao. The ABC islands are the distant foreign for the east coast and Panama Canal cruises.

You can bet the cruise lines wouldn't open theirselves to that kind of legal problems. They have to many lawyers on their staff.

 

 

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Yes they do and the fine is levied on the cruise line and passed onto the passenger. I don't think that a cruise line would let a passenger intentionally violate the law since the fine is in their name.

A cruise line won't book a passenger for an "illegal" segment. If a passenger decided to get off early - before the ship went to a foreign port - their on board account would be assessed the fine. That would make it pretty expensive - one would have to pay for the full cruise plus be charged $300 for jumping ship.

A cruise between two US cities that stops in a Distant Foreign is legal. Panama Canal cruises are legal because they stop in a Distant Foreign port. Any cruise between two UC cities that stops in Aruba , Curacao or Cartagana are legal.

The Jones Act properly called the PVSA has a penalty of about $30K per person .

No, the fine is $300 per person, not $30,000 per person.

The Jones Act properly called the PVSA has a penalty of about $30K per person .

No Jones penalty, as long as it stops at a foreign port. That is why the Seattle Alaska cruises stop in Vancouver. However with this said you will need passports since it is not a"closed loop" cruise.

You mean Victoria? Vancouver is only used as a turnaround port.

If you don't bring your passport, you need to have your ID and birth certificate. I would rather bring my passport - much easier and less risky.

There seems to be a weather-related exception to the Jones Act. When Nassau, the only port of call on my itinerary, closed on embarkation day, Carnival chose Key West to visit instead. I never heard or read Carnival was fined for that even though the cruise was round trip Port Canaveral and assume it was OK because the Sensation met Hurricane Sandy that week.

cruise has to stop at atleast one international port to avoid a bunch of taxes. It's the Reason why Hawaiian cruises always hit Ensenada on the way back.

cruise has to stop at atleast one international port to avoid a bunch of taxes. It's the Reason why Hawaiian cruises always hit Ensenada on the way back.

The issue isn't taxes it's fines, and if a cruise line were to blatantly and intentionally violate the law it could even be denied the right to enter US waters . It's flat out illegal for a foreign flagged cruise ship to have a cruise itinerary with US ports of embarkation and disembarkation without making a call on a foreign port. If it's a closed loop cruise any foreign port will satisfy the law. If it's an open jaw cruise the ship has to call on what is defined as a distant foreign port.

and to top it off, it is even more complicated than what everyone has said. Certain ships can transport passengers between two different US ports without penalty. There are a few that do up and down the east coast, and some in AK, but you don't hear about them because they are very small ships. The G/R for the mass market lines is as everyone has stated, but OPs NY - San Juan - NY crusie is perfectly legal because it is a round trip.

and to top it off, it is even more complicated than what everyone has said. Certain ships can transport passengers between two different US ports without penalty. There are a few that do up and down the east coast, and some in AK, but you don't hear about them because they are very small ships. The G/R for the mass market lines is as everyone has stated, but OPs NY - San Juan - NY crusie is perfectly legal because it is a round trip.

Even a one way NY to San Juan with a foreign port but not a distant foreign port is legal because there's an exception to the PVSA rules in place for Puerto Rico. The exception was put into place because of the lack of US-flagged ships to serve Puerto Rico.

There are "exceptions", only they're a part of the law. The ship must stop in a distant foreign port when traveling between two US ports. According to Jones Act/PVSA, the closest distant ports to the US are ABC Islands; that's Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao.

 

I'm not exactly sure why they're "distant", while Central American countries at the same distance from the US are not. I think they're classified as belonging to South America, which makes them distant in the eyes of the Jones Act/PVSA.

Well, the PVSA only specifies what at "nearby foreign port" is:

A “nearby foreign port” is defined as "any port in North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao)." 19 CFR § 4.80a(a)(2).

Anything else would be a "distant" foreign port.

The issue isn't taxes it's fines, and if a cruise line were to blatantly and intentionally violate the law it could even be denied the right to enter US waters . It's flat out illegal for a foreign flagged cruise ship to have a cruise itinerary with US ports of embarkation and disembarkation without making a call on a foreign port. If it's a closed loop cruise any foreign port will satisfy the law. If it's an open jaw cruise the ship has to call on what is defined as a distant foreign port.

Exactly. Cruise lines won't have an illegal itinerary, and won't allow a passenger to book b-to-b cruises on the same ship that would violate the PVSA (not the Jones Act). And I would imagine that if a passenger who deliberately didn't return to a ship and ended up having an illegal cruise, that passenger won't only just get the fine passed on to him, but risks being blackballed by the cruise line.

and to top it off, it is even more complicated than what everyone has said. Certain ships can transport passengers between two different US ports without penalty. There are a few that do up and down the east coast, and some in AK, but you don't hear about them because they are very small ships. The G/R for the mass market lines is as everyone has stated, but OPs NY - San Juan - NY crusie is perfectly legal because it is a round trip.

You might be confusing small ships with ships that are US flagged and can do those itineraries. Two different things

Exactly. Cruise lines won't have an illegal itinerary' date=' and won't allow a passenger to book b-to-b cruises on the same ship that would violate the PVSA (not the Jones Act). And I would imagine that if a passenger who deliberately didn't return to a ship and ended up having an illegal cruise, that passenger won't only just get the fine passed on to him, but risks being blackballed by the cruise line. [/color']

 

 

 

You might be confusing small ships with ships that are US flagged and can do those itineraries. Two different things

Not confusing anything at all. The fact that certain ships can transport passengers between US ports and others can't is all part of the PSVA, most people don't realize that. The details are to complex to go into in this thread. The size of the ship involved has nothing to do with who can and can't transport passengers, It has to do with where the ship was built and where it is flagged.

Not confusing anything at all. The fact that certain ships can transport passengers between US ports and others can't is all part of the PSVA, most people don't realize that. The details are to complex to go into in this thread. The size of the ship involved has nothing to do with who can and can't transport passengers, It has to do with where the ship was built and where it is flagged.

That's exactly what I said. It has to do with whether it's a US-flagged ship or not. (it's not even about where it was originally built from what I understand about the Pride of America as it got a special exemption despite being built in Germany, IIRC).

It is a bit complex, but only because you have to consider start and ending points and whether there's a "distant foreign port" or not. These details have been discussed many times in previous threads.

How did POA get an exception?