CUNARD "to LOOSEN UP "

I am appalled at this new onslaught by Carnival-The feedback from first time cruisers has prompted this headline.What about the loyal Cunarders ?There are plenty of other ships to accomodate people who do not want to dress up-I personally enjoy the special occasions onboard to dress up -it's the reason I book with them as do a lot of others-it's another sign of dumbing down-What next a climbing wall on QE ?

I am appalled at this new onslaught by Carnival-The feedback from first time cruisers has prompted this headline.What about the loyal Cunarders ?There are plenty of other ships to accomodate people who do not want to dress up-I personally enjoy the special occasions onboard to dress up -it's the reason I book with them as do a lot of others-it's another sign of dumbing down-What next a climbing wall on QE ?

Only if it's attached to her stern, with instructions to go down, as a special attraction on formal nights for those not wishing to conform to the dress code. :D

I am appalled at this new onslaught by Carnival-The feedback from first time cruisers has prompted this headline.What about the loyal Cunarders ?There are plenty of other ships to accomodate people who do not want to dress up-I personally enjoy the special occasions onboard to dress up -it's the reason I book with them as do a lot of others-it's another sign of dumbing down-What next a climbing wall on QE ?

Could you give more details, where is the headline?

David.

Could you give more details, where is the headline?

 

David.

It was being discussed here http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1803139

Here's a link: http://www.etravelblackboard.com/article/141012/cunard-set-to-quotloosen-upquot

Peter

An appalling decision in my view. Disgraceful.

There are thousands and thousands of loyal Cunard passengers out there who have booked, and (until now) have continued to book because of, and for, the formal dining and the wonderful sight of people making an effort to dress up.

But how often do we read on here people saying "oh we want to do Cunard but don't like the dressing up part..." and other silly comments. It's like saying you want to go to Disneyland but are frightened of big mice....you want to go swimming but don't like getting wet.

We're fairly new to this cruise lark, and thoroughly enjoy it, although we have noted a decline in the level of enforcement of the dress code. Yes, we have spent quite a bit of money in the last few years with Cunard, but we've been more than happy to do so as we've had some amazing hols, on fine ships, and some super formal dining experiences.

Whether we will continue to be as loyal to Cunard in the future is yet to be seen:- we certainly will NOT be paying Cunard fares to dine with people in jeans and trainers, and who insist on using a fork like a spoon in their right hand.

A bad move by Cunardival. Dark dress code days ahead I fear.

Regards,

A Grumpy Mr. H. http://cruiseforums.cruisecritic.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

Unfortunately, this is a fact of the times. Seabourn, Silversea, Regent, Crsytal have all become far less formal in the past few years and will continue to evolve in that direction.Ye,s there may be thousands of loyal Cunarders who like the formal dress code but there are tens of thousands of potential younger cruisers who do not and who Cunard is trying to attract.

Unfortunately, this is a fact of the times. Seabourn, Silversea, Regent, Crsytal have all become far less formal in the past few years and will continue to evolve in that direction.Ye,s there may be thousands of loyal Cunarders who like the formal dress code but there are tens of thousands of potential younger cruisers who do not and who Cunard is trying to attract.

Exactly right. I might not personally like it but the only constant in life is change. Just like younger passengers have never learned to use a slide rule, they have not been exposed to formal events at the level that older passengers have.

I sense a bit of a contradiction here. On the one hand, we have this excerpt from one of the statements Peter Shanks made during his recent Q&A session here.

We do not intend to reduce or dilute either the style or the number of our Formal nights - they remain very important to us and very much enjoyed by our guests. ...

On the other hand we have this statement from Peter Shanks made in Sydney.

Regards,

John.

Well said, Mr. H! And Nom, what a wonderful idea! If only there were a job opening for maîtresse du mur. Think of how we would cheer you on as you dispatched offenders to their well-deserved fate!

I've already offered my two-cents worth on the other thread about what I think is an unfortunate decision, but I can't help but ask two questions:

According to etravelbloackboard, Mr. Shanks remarked that "Feedback showed that first time cruisers viewed the Cunard option as 'old fashioned and too formal', so the line plans to 'loosen up' without saying goodbye to their heritage and traditions." Are there not also many first-time cruisers who chose Cunard in part because of its formality? And how do Cunard plan to "loosen up" while holding on to their "heritage and traditions"? Trying to interpret what Peter Shanks means here is as daunting a task as it was trying to interpret the famously oracular utterances of Alan Greenspan.

Exactly right. I might not personally like it but the only constant in life is change. Just like younger passengers have never learned to use a slide rule, they have not been exposed to formal events at the level that older passengers have.

Well, you're right about change being a constant, of course. And yet, I notice that lots and lots of young men in the UK hire morning suits for weddings, yet I presume they don't wear them in their normal everyday lives. So presumably they find that dressing up feels special on a special occasion. For that matter, lots and lots of young women still dress up as beautiful brides. I'm not suggesting that going on a Cunard ship is akin to going to a wedding, merely pointing out that formal occasions and formal wear do still often go together, even for young people.

Personally, I'm wondering why I would still sail Cunard if they do go ahead with this, when I can get a similarly 'loose' experience for a lot less money on other lines. The formal atmosphere on Cunard is one of the main factors that makes it worth (to me) paying the premium they charge.

I'm not sure the comparison with Seabourn etc. holds, since if I understand correctly they are a class above Cunard and therefore in a different market segment.

I can't escape the feeling that Mr Shanks is a CEO who doesn't actually properly understand his own company or customer base.

Unfortunately, this is a fact of the times. Seabourn, Silversea, Regent, Crsytal have all become far less formal in the past few years and will continue to evolve in that direction.Ye,s there may be thousands of loyal Cunarders who like the formal dress code but there are tens of thousands of potential younger cruisers who do not and who Cunard is trying to attract.

There's much truth in what you say. But in a crowded marketplace, one of the things that has set Cunard apart has been its formal dress code, and for many of us it has been an important selling point. Times do change, of course. I don't think that even the Fashion Police object to the fact that white tie is no longer expected on formal nights. But as long as its cabins are filled, I hope that the loosening up Cunard is promising is as gentle as possible.

Only if it's attached to her stern, with instructions to go down, as a special attraction on formal nights for those not wishing to conform to the dress code. :D

They might get a few takers if they stuck the midnight buffet at the top of it! :D:D

J

to be honest the few things that keep me on Cunard is the formality and the physical QM2. While I'll always love QM2, I've found Celebrity Aqua Class to be like a mini Princess Grill and for far far less money (I've sailed solo). As the differentiation goes away, I might as well save some money and sail other lines

How best can we express our opinion to Mr Shanks?

Dear Mr Shanks,

if you are out there somewhere and still monitoring this discussion board, I just want you to know how much I respect and admire you. I think you are not only the best President and Managing Director the world has ever known but you are a thoroughly wonderful and saintly human being as well. Please do not be depressed by all the carping whingeing and criticism on this thread - you just go ahead and manage things in your own efficient and inimitable fashion.

J

PS - don't forget; QV out of Soton on 13 Sep this year. One of those Q1s right at the blunt end would be nice.

How best can we express our opinion to Mr Shanks?

See post #16

J

[LAUGHING]

Cruachan, you're bad!:D

Dear Mr Shanks,

 

if you are out there somewhere and still monitoring this discussion board, I just want you to know how much I respect and admire you. I think you are not only the best President and Managing Director the world has ever known but you are a thoroughly wonderful and saintly human being as well. Please do not be depressed by all the carping whingeing and criticism on this thread - you just go ahead and manage things in your own efficient and inimitable fashion.

 

J

 

PS - don't forget; QV out of Soton on 13 Sep this year. One of those Q1s right at the blunt end would be nice.

He's already doing that, don't encourage him!!!!!!

Dear Mr Shanks,

 

if you are out there somewhere and still monitoring this discussion board, I just want you to know how much I respect and admire you. I think you are not only the best President and Managing Director the world has ever known but you are a thoroughly wonderful and saintly human being as well. Please do not be depressed by all the carping whingeing and criticism on this thread - you just go ahead and manage things in your own efficient and inimitable fashion.

 

J

 

PS - don't forget; QV out of Soton on 13 Sep this year. One of those Q1s right at the blunt end would be nice.

Forgive me but when I first saw QV, she appeared to have TWO blunt ends.:eek::D

Forgive me but when I first saw QV, she appeared to have TWO blunt ends.:eek::D

TWO climbing walls?

I may need the help of MarTiStanUpUpUpManagementServices if I'm to be the new Maîtresse du Mur...

I sense a bit of a contradiction here. On the one hand, we have this excerpt from one of the statements Peter Shanks made during his recent Q&A session here.

 

Originally Posted by

Peter Shanks

We do not intend to reduce or dilute either the style or the number of our Formal nights - they remain very important to us and very much enjoyed by our guests. ...

On the other hand we have this statement from Peter Shanks made in Sydney.

"We're in much warmer climates here so we've been allowing our ships to be a little more flexible with how formal they are. We still have our formal nights, but we limit the amount of formal nights we have."

Regards,

John.

No, he was very careful to tiptoe around this. In the Q&A, he said they would not get rid of formal nights. In the second one, he says they will limit formal nights. Well, they already are limited in a sense, because not every night is formal. So he hasn't exactly contradicted himself. Call it sneaky, call it slimy, he's good at corporate-speak. :rolleyes:

The part I wonder about is "allowing our ships to be a little more flexible in how formal they are." I see that as diluting the semi-formal and elegant casual (or whatever they call it) nights. Other cruise lines do this. A couple of formal nights to appease the traditionalists, and then you can wear your jeans or whatever you like to dinner on the rest of the nights. It gives a cruise a sort of split personality, and I have found (on HAL and Princess) that the informality creeps into the formal nights pretty quickly. :mad:

Leave the number of formal nights but replace the informal

nights with more elegant casual nights.

Formality is not a growing market and that informal night

thing is just elegant casual with a tie .

This will attract more of those who are turned off with excessive

formality.

Leave the number of formal nights but replace the informal

nights with more elegant casual nights.

Formality is not a growing market and that informal night

thing is just elegant casual with a tie .

I agree - in fact I've said the same thing on here a couple of times in the past. Three forms of dress is overkill. I'm sure Formal and Elegant Casual would be quite enough.

J

I agree - in fact I've said the same thing on here a couple of times in the past. Three forms of dress is overkill. I'm sure Formal and Elegant Casual would be quite enough.

 

J

Unfortunately, it's difficult to keep the elegant in elegant casual.