Need suggestions for ships that provides marriage for partners

Hi, I am looking for suggestions for a cruise where my son and his partner would be allowed to be married onboard the ship - not a destination. Because of time and $$ constraints, a ship that leaves from the East coast or from the Gulf is a must!

They live in TN, and are currently talking about driving to a little unknown town in ILL, near the TN border, to get a license. A reception would be at a later time in TN. Didn't sound like much fun to me, so I offered to do some research on possible places for them to get married.

I came up with the cruise idea. :D Marriage and honeymoon at the same time! The hometown reception would still take place after they returned home.

Could someone suggest cruiselines/ships that sail anytime between this Fall (2014) to the following Fall that perform same sex marriages?

Also, what are the typical cost for an onboard wedding...not including the cruise portion?

Thank you! ;)

The major cruise lines will provide ceremonies for same-sex couples from ports where it is legal. On the east coast this would be ships departing from Boston, NYC, Bayonne, Baltimore.

When we booked our embarkation wedding for 50 guests on the Carnival Pride out of Baltimore last year it would've totaled $3,400 with tax and marriage license. Wedding pictures were an additional $500-$3000 depending on the package purchased. There are quite a few same-sex couples on the Honeymoon/Weddings boards who were recently married in the past few years and have written reviews for NCL and CCL.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1462186

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2079834

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1774666

They could also go with a smaller ceremony (the couple and 6 guests)--those start at around $1600 for the east coast ports.

:) Thank you! Just what I needed.

Nothing from the Gulf ports? I have no idea what states are legalizing SSM. :o I am surprise that you didn't mention FL. I would have bet that FL had legalized it.

Before I start a search for the aforementioned ports, are there cruiselines that do not support the onboard weddings? As you can see from my signature, we prefer RCCL and Celebrity, but have sailed a few times with Carnival. ;) The guys have been on Carnival, too. :)

You mentioned marriage license. Did you have to apply for that ahead of time?

I haven't noticed any same-sex couples having an outright issue with weddings on any of the lines. Celebrity just did an LGBT focused ad and everyone else is pretty much inclusive. In many of the ports, the lines have to legally offer same-sex weddings if they are offering weddings, or they can be sued for discrimination and have state based sanctions (fines).

The lines can't hold legal weddings in Texas, Louisiana, or Florida right now because they like a chunk of the states are in a state of legal limbo (along with Virginia and others). They will arrange for symbolic ceremonies, but some of the lines (Carnival) will require you to be legally married before hand.

In most states you have to apply for the marriage license ahead of time and there is a waiting period in a chunk of east coast states (ours was 48 hours in Baltimore) and I believe NYC also has one. They'll be responsible for obtaining that on their own. We actually were in a place of legal limbo and cancelled our embarkation wedding and opted to get married before we left and had a symbolic ceremony at-sea with our families.

OK, I was confused when you mentioned that the price included the marriage license, so thought that you received that as well. Now I see that you didn't have the onboard marriage. ;)

Having to go up a few days ahead of time may put a wrench in this whole thing. I am not even sure if the guys know that they would have to go to ILL a few days prior to getting married up there. :confused: We need to talk further. I just found out about this today. ;)

Nothing from the Gulf ports? I have no idea what states are legalizing SSM. :o I am surprise that you didn't mention FL. I would have bet that FL had legalized it.

No statewide domestic partnerships. No statewide anti-discrimination law. Same-sex adoption was only legalized because of a court order. "Sodomy" was only legalized because of SCOTUS.

Not every place in the state is The Magic Kingdom.

Good thing that I was doing research for son and partner. :eek: Look what I found on the Illinois State U.S. Marriage Laws:

Residency Requirement:

 

Non-residents cannot obtain a marriage license if said marriage would be void in their state.

 

Waiting Period: 1 day.

Does this mean that they cannot get married there?

OK, I was confused when you mentioned that the price included the marriage license, so thought that you received that as well. Now I see that you didn't have the onboard marriage. ;)

Carnival includes the cost as part of the package information so couples aren't surprised (in the islands it can get $$$), which is why I included it. Sorry

Good thing that I was doing research for son and partner. :eek: Look what I found on the Illinois State U.S. Marriage Laws:

 

Does this mean that they cannot get married there?

It seems that way.

I see. ;) Seems the cost of the license is incidental in the big picture.

Well, I need to make a call to the guys. I don't know what, if any, research they have even done on this Illinois thing. All they said was that it was a 5 hour drive for them to get a license and then get married. The guys are in their mid 20's and busy working, while trying make rent on their apartment. One is in graduate school. I was asked to help since they didn't have time. :rolleyes:

No statewide domestic partnerships. No statewide anti-discrimination law. Same-sex adoption was only legalized because of a court order. "Sodomy" was only legalized because of SCOTUS.

 

Not every place in the state is The Magic Kingdom.

The misguided voters passed a constitutional amendment against marriage which now has been ruled unconstitutional by 4 separate judges, however all rulings are stayed pending an appeal by the attorney general who wants it to go to the US Supreme Court. It is coming, but it is not here yet.

Sorry, I missed your post earlier, shepp. ;)

Again, surprising about Florida. :(

We were able to get our license in NYC even though we are living in Idaho. We got married on the NCL Breakaway while in port and then sailed with some of our guests.

Congratulations to your son and his partner! Your support is beautiful.

- Robert

Haha...I was just looking at the NCL Breakaway cruise. :)

If the guys took to this idea, it would be DH and my wedding gift to them.;) Apparently, they have already booked and paid for the reception that is to be in the Fall of 2015. I don't see how they could pay for something so far ahead of time. Maybe it's just the venue rental and not anything that goes along with it. :rolleyes:

The major cruise lines will provide ceremonies for same-sex couples from ports where it is legal. On the east coast this would be ships departing from Boston, NYC, Bayonne, Baltimore.

As of this moment, Norfolk, VA may also be an option for them unless the Supreme Court places a stay on the recent court decision. I think only CCL is doing Norfolk in Spring and Fall 2015.

Interesting! ;) They may not be able to do a cruise, but the Virginia boarder is less than 30 minutes from my home...a 3 hour drive for the guys. :) That's better than 5 Hours, and means that the whole family could go with them.

I'll keep an eye and ears out for developments. If this goes through, the next step would be finding someone nearby that would be willing to perform the ceremony. :rolleyes:

Thank you!

The misguided voters passed a constitutional amendment against marriage which now has been ruled unconstitutional by 4 separate judges, however all rulings are stayed pending an appeal by the attorney general who wants it to go to the US Supreme Court. It is coming, but it is not here yet.

Absolutely. It's coming. It's just that it's not surprising that Florida, from Anita Bryant onward, hasn't been in the vanguard of queer rights. Old folks, Cuban Catholics, and, once you get beyond MIA-FLL and MCO, a bunch of self-described "crackers" (as my Floridian mother-in-law happily calls herself) and a church on every corner. Not the most fertile ground for marriage equality.

Interesting! ;) They may not be able to do a cruise, but the Virginia boarder is less than 30 minutes from my home...a 3 hour drive for the guys. :) That's better than 5 Hours, and means that the whole family could go with them.

 

I'll keep an eye and ears out for developments. If this goes through, the next step would be finding someone nearby that would be willing to perform the ceremony. :rolleyes:

 

Thank you!

Your son is lucky to have a tenacious mom like you.

The way courts have been ruling and with the expectation that the Supreme Court will wade in, being optimistic, national marriage equality may be instituted before the Fall of 2015.

 

Again, surprising about Florida. :(

Sad to say, but it's not. Florida is one of the most politically conservative states in the country.

Interesting! ;) They may not be able to do a cruise, but the Virginia boarder is less than 30 minutes from my home...a 3 hour drive for the guys. :) That's better than 5 Hours, and means that the whole family could go with them.

 

I'll keep an eye and ears out for developments. If this goes through, the next step would be finding someone nearby that would be willing to perform the ceremony. :rolleyes:

 

Thank you!

They can't get a license yet in Virginia. Although a district court has ruled that the state's ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit has upheld that ruling and refused to stay it (that last part happened today), it is very likely that the Supreme Court will issue a stay as it has the other rulings from around the country, while it decides what to do with the pending petitions that it review these cases.

Your son's best bet if he wants to be married legally now (even though TN won't recognize his marriage yet) is to go to a state or country where he and his partner can get married. Then celebrate back home -- or on a ship! :)

Freedom to Marry's web site has a good graphic of where gay and lesbian couples can marry (the Illinois restriction you posted re out of staters is news to me, so that bears checking into).

http://www.freedomtomarry.org/states/

Good thing that I was doing research for son and partner. :eek: Look what I found on the Illinois State U.S. Marriage Laws:

 

 

 

Does this mean that they cannot get married there?

My *very* quick research turned up the same restriction. I wonder if it dates from the days when interracial marriage was prohibited by tons of states. I'm almost certain this is not a recent provision. (Massachusetts used to prohibit non-residents from marrying; that law dated to something like the early 20th Century. It's what then Gov. Romney used to keep non-Massachusetts gays from marrying there after Goodridge was decided.)

They can't get a license yet in Virginia. Although a district court has ruled that the state's ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit has upheld that ruling and refused to stay it (that last part happened today), it is very likely that the Supreme Court will issue a stay as it has the other rulings from around the country, while it decides what to do with the pending petitions that it review these cases.

 

Your son's best bet if he wants to be married legally now (even though TN won't recognize his marriage yet) is to go to a state or country where he and his partner can get married. Then celebrate back home -- or on a ship! :)

 

Freedom to Marry's web site has a good graphic of where gay and lesbian couples can marry (the Illinois restriction you posted re out of staters is news to me, so that bears checking into).

 

http://www.freedomtomarry.org/states/

Thanks, I have marked that site.

The guys want to marry in October, so there is still time for something to happen in VA. If not, it will have to be NJ, NY, Maryland or Illinois?. As long as they are paying to get up there, why not give them a cruise! :)

My *very* quick research turned up the same restriction. I wonder if it dates from the days when interracial marriage was prohibited by tons of states. I'm almost certain this is not a recent provision. (Massachusetts used to prohibit non-residents from marrying; that law dated to something like the early 20th Century. It's what then Gov. Romney used to keep non-Massachusetts gays from marrying there after Goodridge was decided.)

I did a Google on the Illinois law and kept coming up with the same answer of the meaning. It's written for same sex marriages. :rolleyes: I'll just tell the guys what I have found and let them handle it by making calls.

 

 

I did a Google on the Illinois law and kept coming up with the same answer of the meaning. It's written for same sex marriages. :rolleyes: I'll just tell the guys what I have found and let them handle it by making calls.

Please see this article in the Indy Star, which explains that the non residency provision pre-dates Illinois' new marriage equality law, but also reports an opinion of Equality Illinois that this should not be a problem for many non-residents, depending on how their own state laws are written. The article was written before the Illinois marriage equality law took effect. Now that it is in effect, whether the state's non-residency provision is an issue is knowable. A phone call to Equality Illinois, or to Lambda Legal's Chicago office, or even to the office of the clerk where your son would get his license, should get the answer.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2013/11/06/indiana-could-feel-impact-as-neighboring-illinois-adopts-same-sex-marriage/3456535/

Edited to add: here's the FAQ from Equality Illinois; scroll down to the part about non-residents. Need to check the wording of the TN ban on same-sex marriage and see if it makes them "void." If not, your son should be able to get a license in Illinois. I'll try to check the TN law later.

http://www.equalityillinois.us/issue/marriage/

Edited to add: it appears that the TN anti-gay marriage amendment does declare same-sex marriages to be void, in which case it looks like Illinois is out. Fortunately, still lots of other options!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Marriage_Protection_Amendment#Text_of_the_amendment

I was intrigued by the provision of Illinois law noted above barring marriages by non-residents if their marriage would be "void" in their state of residence, and just did a little more digging. I was correct in my assumption that this provision of the Illinois marriage laws is quite old and was not adopted as part of the recent marriage equality legislation. Unfortunately, as this article in the Illinois Bar Journal notes, the recent marriage equality law did not repeal the older, non-residency provision, so it remains a problem for some non-residents:

The "reverse evasive marriage statute." Finally, the only meaningful shortcoming of the new Act is its failure to address section 217 of the IMDMA, which voids an Illinois marriage by non-residents that would be void in their state of residence. Enacted more than 100 years ago, the statute contains two parts. The first, section 216, voids prohibited marriages obtained elsewhere by Illinois residents, and the second, section 217, declares as void for all purposes marriages obtained here by non-residents coming to, and with an intent not to remain in, Illinois to obtain a marriage deemed void in their state of residence.

 

Neither provision of Illinois' statute was repealed by the Act. Section 216 was amended as to same-sex marriages by the new Act's removal of "marriages between 2 persons of the same sex" from the list of prohibited marriages under the IMDMA.29 Section 217, however, was left intact by the new Act.

 

Section 217's continued viability could have disproportionate impact on same-sex couples seeking to marry here. The federal decision in Windsor, which recognizes same-sex marriage under all of federal law without regard to the parties' residence - but only if valid where celebrated - is a compelling incentive for couples from non-recognition states to go elsewhere to marry. Illinois, like all states, has no residency requirements for marriage but is in close geographic proximity to many non-recognition states. While the recent wave of federal court decisions overturning same-sex marriage bans might ultimately render the question moot, section 217 remains valid for now.

http://www.isba.org/ibj/2014/08/illinoisreligiousfreedomandmarriage

Please see this article in the Indy Star, which explains that the non residency provision pre-dates Illinois' new marriage equality law, but also reports an opinion of Equality Illinois that this should not be a problem for many non-residents, depending on how their own state laws are written. The article was written before the Illinois marriage equality law took effect. Now that it is in effect, whether the state's non-residency provision is an issue is knowable. A phone call to Equality Illinois, or to Lambda Legal's Chicago office, or even to the office of the clerk where your son would get his license, should get the answer.

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2013/11/06/indiana-could-feel-impact-as-neighboring-illinois-adopts-same-sex-marriage/3456535/

 

Edited to add: here's the FAQ from Equality Illinois; scroll down to the part about non-residents. Need to check the wording of the TN ban on same-sex marriage and see if it makes them "void." If not, your son should be able to get a license in Illinois. I'll try to check the TN law later.

 

http://www.equalityillinois.us/issue/marriage/

 

Edited to add: it appears that the TN anti-gay marriage amendment does declare same-sex marriages to be void, in which case it looks like Illinois is out. Fortunately, still lots of other options!

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Marriage_Protection_Amendment#Text_of_the_amendment

Oh Turtles... You have been so helpful! :)

This information is really going to save the poor guys from making a big mistake by showing up and not being able to marry. Not to mention them spending money for a trip that they really cannot afford right now.

Looks like I will have to be the bearer of bad news.:( I'll still have them call and double check, though. Hopefully, Virginia will come through.

Thank you again for all your research. ;) BTW- We missed you and your partner on the Baltic's cruise. We had a great time, but Russia was not all that special.