Old Canal or New Canal?

[Cruizer Bill]

My DW and I have not yet cruised the Canal and wish to do so in late 2010 or early 2011. My TA has told us the new canal will be finished end of 2010 and stating January 2011 cruises will be in the new canal. Is this true? Is the old canal better/more scenic than the new canal? Does is make any differnece? My TA recommended we travel in 2010 and see the old canal instead of the new one.
Thanks.....Bill

[BillB48]

I hope your TA knows more about the travel business because he is giving you some bum info. In reality there won't be a new Canal, just and additional set of larger locks. The new locks will be near the present locks and the ships will use the same basic channel. Most of Gaillard Cut will be the same, (the new access channel to the new locks will be a little north of Pedro Miguel Locks) and the channel across Gatun Lake will essentially be the same. The new locks are not scheduled to open until the 100th anniversary of the present Canal, which will be in 2014.

There is a lot of work going on to widen and deepen some areas of the Canal but this won't have much of an impact on what the Canal looks like when the new locks are completed.

It will be a great cruise whenever you go!

[MSN-Travelers]

Originally Posted by Cruizer Bill

My DW and I have not yet cruised the Canal and wish to do so in late 2010 or early 2011. My TA has told us the new canal will be finished end of 2010 and stating January 2011 cruises will be in the new canal. Is this true? Is the old canal better/more scenic than the new canal? Does is make any differnece? My TA recommended we travel in 2010 and see the old canal instead of the new one.
Thanks.....Bill

I believe your TA may be over stating the Panama Canal Expansion project. They are not building a whole new canal. They are building a new set (third set) of locks on both the Atlantic & Pacific side that will be large enough to handle the new generation of container cargo ships. In doing this, they are adding some "new" stretches of canal that is wider and deeper than the existing route. Reference this article/map to see what is being added. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_...ansion_project

The size of the existing locks limits the size of the ships the cruise industry can put through the canal. In the grand scheme of things, I would expect the toll fee for the new route to be higher than the old route. If the cruise industry continues to use the same ships, then they will use the old route. If the cruise industry puts larger ships on this route, then they will use the new route.

So ... the cruise line you book with and the size ship they have on the canal itinerary in 2011 will determine if you would sail the new or old route.

Enjoy!

[Richard in Panama]

The offical Panama Canal site is http://www.pancanal.com/eng/index.html and you may find it helpful to familiarize yourself with the Canal and the expansion project.

The project is not scheduled for completion until 2025. The last I heard the bids for the lock portion all came in over budget . . . and I don't think that contract has been awarded yet.

Find a good Canal cruise and take it! Don't hold your breath . . .

Regards, Richard

[Cruizer Bill]

Thanks very much! That means it does not matter which month we will cruise in. That opens up our options. I see so many good cruises through the canal!!! Thanks!
Bill

[BillB48]

Hi Bill,

If you receive the Science Channel on cable, they had a good program on the new locks project. The program is hosted by Danny Forster (not quite sure of the spelling of the last name and he is kind of nerdy) called "Build it Bigger." I don't know if and when they may be doing reruns, but I think you would enjoy it. Try and catch it, some good shots of the present Canal/Locks as well. It originally aired July 16.

[Cruizer Bill]

Thanks! I'll check my TIVO for upcoming shows.
Bill

[gillianrose]

I have taken a look at several canal cruise videos on the Internet and have noticed that some show a green, lush canal and the most recent video I saw of March, 2009 Infinity showed what I would describe as clear cut areas that were not attractive.

How extensive is this clear cut area now, and how will it be six months from now?

I also saw a video of the canal which showed a lot of jackhammering going on. I did not see a cruise ship in the canal at the time, but I do want to know what the odds are of noisy jackhammering going on during a canal trip.

Is it too late already to have a lush, jackhammer-free cruise in the Panama Canal?

[BillB48]

They have been making the Canal larger almost from the moment it was finished in 1914! Don't worry, you will still see lots of old growth areas particularly when crossing Gatun Lake. The area that you will see the most excavation for the new locks is on the west bank of the Canal between Pedro Miguel Locks and the new Centennial Bridge. This is where they are digging an access channel for the new Pacific side locks which will be near the present Miraflores Locks. The passage through Gaillard Cut you will see considerable activity here as well. The widening of the Cut has been on going for a long time, the original width was just 300 feet. Now the minimum width is 500 feet and continuing to get larger! The terracing of some of the larger hills may appear to be part of the enlargement of the Canal but it is really to ensure the stability of the banks along the Canal. A underappreciated fact is there has been more dirt removed from the Canal since it was built than was removed for its construction.

I don't which direction you are planning to transit, (I can't tell you the order in which you will see things) but the 20 or so miles between Gamboa and Gatun Locks, there will be lots of lush vegetation. This is the Gatun Lake portion of the transit and what you see will be much the same as it was a 100 years ago.

[gillianrose]

Originally Posted by BillB48

I don't which direction you are planning to transit, (I can't tell you the order in which you will see things) but the 20 or so miles between Gamboa and Gatun Locks, there will be lots of lush vegetation. This is the Gatun Lake portion of the transit and what you see will be much the same as it was a 100 years ago.

The cruise which looks most interesting so far is Westbound, which means the lushest part of the canal will be early in the morning, is that right? (I am usually not an early riser, but realize now that I will have to be in order to see the entry into the canal from the Atlantic side.)

What percentage of the full transit will be lush and what percentage of the full transit will be heavy construction with areas that have no vegetation on the side?

Does the jackhammering go on during cruise ship transits?

[BillB48]

Originally Posted by gillianrose

The cruise which looks most interesting so far is Westbound, which means the lushest part of the canal will be early in the morning, is that right? (I am usually not an early riser, but realize now that I will have to be in order to see the entry into the canal from the Atlantic side.)

Going from Atlantic to Pacific the ship will be making its' approach to Gatun Locks just as it begins to get light which will be somewhere around 6:15-6:30AM. Depending on your ship's schedule it could even be as late as 7-7:30. Now the ship will arrive in Canal waters and pick up the pilots about an hour to hour and a half before those times I mentioned. Going in this direction while approaching Gatun Locks the vegetation is fairly thick on the starboard side of the ship. I don't know how well you will be able to see it at this point since it will still be dark. It should be daylight by the time you arrive at Gatun Locks, or at least twilight. The Atlantic side of the Canal is less developed so even at this point you'll see a lot of vegetation. The lockage at Gatun will take about 1.5 hours then you will be in Gatun Lake. The next 20 or so miles to Gamboa is in the ship channel across Gatun Lake. The channel basically follows the route of the Chages River which supplies the major portion of the water used in the Canal. This is the area that is fairly untouched by modern times.

What percentage of the full transit will be lush and what percentage of the full transit will be heavy construction with areas that have no vegetation on the side?

Almost all of the first half of your transit until Gamboa will have almost no visual impact from the new construction. While you are at Gatun Locks what construction that you might be able to see would be on the port side but I don't think it is at a stage where you are able to see much at this point. After passing Gamboa, you will enter Gaillard Cut. For the next 8 miles you will see various areas that are being widened or have been widened, but it is not 8 solid miles of upheaval. After passing under the new Centennial Bridge on your starboard side will be the biggest area that you will see of the new construction. It is about 1 mile from the bridge until Pedro Miguel Locks. On the port side in this area, you will see the towns of Paraiso and Pedro Miguel. After Pedro Miguel Locks, it is just a short mile across Miraflores Lake until Miraflores Locks. You will begin to see more civilization on the port side and maybe some glimpses of construction from the starboard side. I would think that it would be close to the 50% mark that you will be able to see the lush tropical growth. Even in the areas where there is civilization and construction, I think you will be pleasantly surprised on how thick the growth is. The jungle reclaims the land very quickly!!

Does the jackhammering go on during cruise ship transits?

Yup! It should be far enough away that it should not be a huge distraction! You maybe able to hear some muffled machine noise in the areas of the construction or while you are passing a dredge. I don't think it will be an issue.

Hope you enjoy!

[gillianrose]

Much appreciated. Thank you very much!

[n0w0rn3v3r]

Hi All.....
I'm looking for updated info concerning the "new" vs "old" locks and cruise ships. Back in 2009 someone speculated that the smaller ships would use the older locks. Is this still the prevailing theory or will the ships be routed to the next available opening?

Any info is appreciated.

[CruiserBruce]

I believe the new locks won't be available until 2014. Are we getting ahead of our selves a little?

[n0w0rn3v3r]

I'm sorry I thought this was a place where questions about the Canal could be asked? And since this was originally asked in 2009, I didn't think asking for an update was unreasonable.

[Loonbeam]

To answer the question, there is no idea as rates have not been set. It's PROBABLE the older canal will have lower fees, so its reasonable to assume that smaller ships who can will still use them...

If the rates end up generally equal, then I suspect the smaller ships will find other itineraries and larger ships will use the new locks. But we won't know probably till mid-2013. (I am actually hoping that Princess will be able to add some new routes to the Island and Coral's schedule if they free up from the canal!)

[AKman2495]

As I understand it, there will not be a new canal. They are building new locks at the ends of the canal, but it will still be largely the same canal.

As for how it will be used, that is hard to say. It takes a lot of water to use the locks and to us both sets at the same time, may be limited. OTOH, it makes sense to use the larger locks for the larger ships and the smaller locks for the smaller ships.

This is supposed to be done in 2014. As far as bookings go, it is way too early to guess.

I imagine that the cruise lines will have some larger ships use the canal just because they can. It all depends, however, as to how they will set up schedules for further transits.

[KreinKrunker]

Originally Posted by n0w0rn3v3r

Hi All.....
I'm looking for updated info concerning the "new" vs "old" locks and cruise ships. Back in 2009 someone speculated that the smaller ships would use the older locks. Is this still the prevailing theory or will the ships be routed to the next available opening?

From the things that I have seen, it is very unlikely the new locks will be ready in 2014. We'll just have to wait and see. Since the new locks will be recirculating most of the water, they may use them more than the old ones by putting two ships in one lock at the same time. Size permitting of course.

[BillB48]

Originally Posted by n0w0rn3v3r

Hi All.....
I'm looking for updated info concerning the "new" vs "old" locks and cruise ships. Back in 2009 someone speculated that the smaller ships would use the older locks. Is this still the prevailing theory or will the ships be routed to the next available opening?

Any info is appreciated.

That is exactly the plan. The new locks will be a supplement to the present locks in that their primary focus will be on ships that are too large for the present locks. The present locks maximum size ship that can be accommodated is 965x106 (they can play with those numbers a bit), while the new locks will accommodate ships of 1200x160. Again those numbers can be massaged a tad.

One of the innovations for the new locks that Canal watchers will notice absent on the new locks is.... there will be no "mules" to assist the ship through. Of course no locomotives this is the method ships use at other similar locks in other parts of the world such as the St. Lawrence Seaway.

[BillB48]

Originally Posted by KreinKrunker

From the things that I have seen, it is very unlikely the new locks will be ready in 2014. We'll just have to wait and see. Since the new locks will be recirculating most of the water, they may use them more than the old ones by putting two ships in one lock at the same time. Size permitting of course.

I suppose there won't be a reason that they could not do this as they already perform a similar maneuver with the present locks and they stuff more than one ship in a chamber on the Kiel Canal (North Sea Canal) on a regular basis. Presently they will put two ships together in the same chamber as long as the combined length is not over 800'. Probably don't see this much during the day since usually the daytime is when they try to get the larger ships through.