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  #61  
Old January 6th, 2005, 04:07 PM
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Typically everyone has an opinion on this issue, and they're all entitled to it. It's amusing how passionate the feelings are on this "issue".

Personally I have no problems with people who wish to try to smuggle alcohol on board. If they are successful... good for them! If it makes them enjoy their week more, I am very happy for them It's not something I choose to do, simply because I do not drink enough in a 7 day period to warrant the weight of the contraband and hassle of trying to find a creative way to smuggle it in.
Note: I am more likely to "stretch" the allowances on customs limits for alcohol when returning, but thats a different issue

However, if you do choose to smuggle, or violate other posted rules and regulations intentionally, please realize that whatever actions are taken in response by the cruise line cannot be complained about

You simply can't have it both ways! If you get caught... don't come back here to protest your treatment!

Enjoy your cruises
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  #62  
Old January 6th, 2005, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Host Cecilia
I would only say that it's ironic that people talk about smuggling alcohol as if it's a birth given right but then are the first to complain when someone's kid is out of control on the ship or someone dresses inappropriately for dinner or if someone smokes in the wrong place. There are rules about those things too right?
I contend that we as thinking adults have the right to consider the reason for rules when we decide on courses of action. I certainly am not going to blindly follow any rule imposed upon me by organizations that are not law-enforcement (whose rules I WILL always follow).

The vast majority of the non-legal rules we encounter in life are going to have a valid purpose behind them that compell us to respect them. For example, no-smoking rules protect others from second-hand smoke and personal discomfort. Rules about controlling one's children are for the protection of the children and the establishment, as well as insuring other patrons aren't disturbed. Rules about not bringing food/drink into a store are to protect that store's merchandise from damage. Rules about dress codes are for the purpose of insuring that the advertised product is what the patrons actually get - i.e. if a formal experience is sold, then an environment filled with people in non-formal attire changes the experience, so patrons do not get what they paid for.

But if a non-legal rule has no valid reason for existance other than purely self-serving, and in fact has a negative and unreasonable impact on me, I most CERTAINLY will consider breaking it. To be honest, I'm having a hard time coming up with any other rules that I might have encountered that didn't have any valid purpose, other than the rediculous cruiseship alcohol bans. I suppose I'll have to make one up...what if you booked a room in a hotel that was owned by Victoria's Secret, and were told that you can only wear their underwear while there, and if you showed up in others, you had to purchase theirs in order to sleep in your room? You could argue that, well heck, don't stay there! But what if it was the only hotel near a major public attraction, so that you would be prevented from visiting it by this self-serving rule? I would feel quite justified in sewing on fake VS labels in my panties so that I might visit this place. The "VS Underwear" rule does nothing to enhance my or anyone else's experience, does nothing to prevent harming anyone or anything, and serves no viable purpose other than to pad the pockets of the company. And what if I don't even LIKE VS underwear? What if I much prefer my Wonderbra to any bra I can find in a VS store? Who are they to tell me what I must wear under my clothes, and put on in the privacy of my room?

I see the booze rules the same. My bringing my own favorite wines and spirits to enjoy in the privacy of my own bedroom when I'm on my vacation is not their right to deny. It harms no one, impacts nobody but me, puts nothing at risk for anyone. Oh sure, they can try to prevent me, but I have absolutely no problem doing whatever is necessary to skirt this absurd, self-serving rule.

There's my take on it.

LeeAnne

  #63  
Old January 6th, 2005, 04:51 PM
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There was an interesting post about this here: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showt...6&page=2&pp=25It's post number 36, and it's about the reason the cruiselines don't allow passengers to bring on their own liquor. I don't know if it's true or not, but I thought it was interesting.
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  #64  
Old January 6th, 2005, 04:54 PM
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Why don't some of you start some threads about how it is your right to park your suv in two handicapped parking places, or throw used diapers out the window into the parking lot? Better yet, why not save additional money by just cutting out the ship part of the equation - and sit home and just pour booze down your throat?

  #65  
Old January 6th, 2005, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fin
Why don't some of you start some threads about how it is your right to park your suv in two handicapped parking places, or throw used diapers out the window into the parking lot? Better yet, why not save additional money by just cutting out the ship part of the equation - and sit home and just pour booze down your throat?
Parking in handicapped spots -- denies the spots to the truly handicapped (not to mention illegal).

Throwing diapers out the window -- harms the environment, disturbs others, health hazzard.

Bringing booze on board -- harms no one, denies no one anything, has no deleterious effects on anyone.

LeeAnne

  #66  
Old January 6th, 2005, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leejnd4
I see the booze rules the same. My bringing my own favorite wines and spirits to enjoy in the privacy of my own bedroom when I'm on my vacation is not their right to deny. It harms no one, impacts nobody but me, puts nothing at risk for anyone. Oh sure, they can try to prevent me, but I have absolutely no problem doing whatever is necessary to skirt this absurd, self-serving rule.

There's my take on it.

LeeAnne
If that what most people were doing I don't thing we would be in this mess. The fact is many folks were drinking the booze they carried on in public areas as well. It is another case of the abuse of some impacting all.

I plead guility to doing that myself in the past. Buy one drink and stop by the cabin for a refill. I am sure many of us that object to the rule have done the same.

You don't think the kids that gave a black eye to one of the members son got drunk on booze they purchased with there Sail & Sign Card. The transaction will not go through.

I firmly believe we should have the right to bring wine and spirits onboard to consume in the cabin. The problem it keeps leaking out of too many cabins.

You can once again bring your favorite wine if it is not available onboard

Bar set up solves the spirits problem with a small premium. Not perfect but better then no alternative. If you were not a member here you whould never know the service was available.

Last edited by shoreguy; January 6th, 2005 at 05:13 PM.

  #67  
Old January 6th, 2005, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samdham
There was an interesting post about this here: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showt...6&page=2&pp=25It's post number 36, and it's about the reason the cruiselines don't allow passengers to bring on their own liquor. I don't know if it's true or not, but I thought it was interesting.
Yes, very interesting. For those of you who don't want to read the whole thing, the jist is this:

1) A study was done by a cruise line comparing profits onboard when all outside alcohol was banned, vs. any outside alcohol allowed to be brought onboard. The study showed that alcohol profits were THE SAME.

2) The legal dept. insisted on banning outside booze for the purpose of preventing lawsuits: if a passenger gets drunk and is harmed, the cruiseline will not be held responsible as long as they have made "REASONABLE efforts to control alcohol consumption on its premises."

If this is true, then it seems to me that the best solution is the one that appears to be employed by Celebrity -- the stated rules about bringing alcohol are murky but suggest it is not allowed, however, the enforcement of this is spotty at best. The result is that they have their "rules" to fall back on to deny any passenger bringing an unreasonable amount of booze, while allowing passengers to carry on limited amounts of wine, which can be consumed in the dining room with an established corkage fee, or spirits to consume in their room undisturbed. This protects against the over-the-top party animals most likely to cause drunkenness problems from rolling on their cases of beer, kegs, or bags filled with multiple bottles of wine, without alienating those discriminating passengers who wish to sip their favorite single-malt scotch in the privacy of their own rented on-board bedroom.

LeeAnne

  #68  
Old January 6th, 2005, 06:30 PM
NewCruiseFan NewCruiseFan is offline
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Oh, one other thought on a modified version of smuggling. If you are sailing from a US port simply mail yourself a bon voyage gift containing the alcohol you most adore - your own bar setup so to speak.

Those gifts are simply sent to your cabin without regard to whether it contains alcohol. For myself, because I can't drink grain alcohols, next time I sail from a US port I'm shipping myself the Cosmo kit for Girls!

p.s. LeaAnne - you go, girl!
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  #69  
Old January 6th, 2005, 06:47 PM
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Mikey8Ohio Mikey8Ohio is offline
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Default Ok, I'll bite....

I have previously sailed on Princess, Celebrity and RCCL, and each time brought a bottle with me. Not that I was smuggling, I honestly didn't know that it was wrong. Believe it or not, until I started reading the NCL posts, I wasn't aware that I was a smuggler.

I don't necessarily want to break the rules now that I am aware of them, but I also enjoy a cocktail in bed as I read a good book prior to being gently rocked to sleep. (No one would want to see me sitting at a ship's bar dressed for bed with a book in my hand having my nightcap.....)

[color=RoyalBlue]As I am finalizing plans for a Majesty cruise, I am becoming concerned about how to enjoy my respite. Yes, I could purchase the bar setup, and probably will. I could also smuggle and hope for the best, (And certainly not complain if I am caught....) But I was intrigued by the sending of a package to the ship. Does anyone have any idea how to do that? Has anyone done it with success? Unless I hear otherwise, I will plan to buy the bar setup. Thanks in advance for the input.......Mike
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  #70  
Old January 6th, 2005, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Leejnd4
I contend that we as thinking adults have the right to consider the reason for rules when we decide on courses of action. I certainly am not going to blindly follow any rule imposed upon me by organizations that are not law-enforcement (whose rules I WILL always follow).
That sounds like an awful lot of words to say "I wanna do it".
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  #71  
Old January 6th, 2005, 07:20 PM
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Mikey - there are a lot of companies that ship bon voyage gifts to cruisers. you just put your package together as a gift and ship it to yourself. When I do it in the future I'll probably put my Mom's name as sender and include for myself a wonderful BV sendoff card!

It's great to arrive to gifts! You can even call the cruise line to ask how to send a BV custom gift to a friend, you may wish to send something more personal or customized than the companies that offer the service.
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  #72  
Old January 6th, 2005, 07:27 PM
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I, too, am a smuggler and not one bit ashamed of it. I smuggled on my last cruise, and ended up bringing half of it back home because it is just easier to buy the drinks in whatever bar I may be in. My bar bill was still quite high, needless to say. But I also had the freedom of having a drink on my balcony with alcohol from my room that I brought. Yes, I play hard but I also work hard in order to afford these cruises. The cruise line is getting PLENTY of money from me, whether I bring my own booze or not. As a matter of fact, they are probably getting MORE from me when I do have my own bottle to sip on. I tend to get a little more generous when I've had a few drinks, and I tend to have a few more drinks when I'm not buying them.
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  #73  
Old January 6th, 2005, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Globaliser
That sounds like an awful lot of words to say "I wanna do it".
Sorry, but that is not correct. What I said was:

"I contend that we as thinking adults have the right to consider the reason for rules when we decide on courses of action. I certainly am not going to blindly follow any rule imposed upon me by organizations that are not law-enforcement (whose rules I WILL always follow)."

That does not simply say "I wanna do it." It says that I carefully consider all factors before I decide what to do. Yes, that is a rather complex concept. I'll try to keep things simpler.

LeeAnne

  #74  
Old January 6th, 2005, 08:01 PM
vivianbstrd vivianbstrd is offline
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Question Just curious

Please excuse my ignorance, however I am taking my first cruise this upcoming November and am curious what the procedures are for checking luggage. Do they simply run it through a scanner and if something looks suspicious (like a bottle) they then search it? What about with carry-ons? How can they tell its a bottle anyway - shape, chemical composition (e.g. glass)??

  #75  
Old January 6th, 2005, 08:13 PM
NoPiratesPlease NoPiratesPlease is offline
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LeeAnne:
I'm jealous! You wrote such a clear and cogent argument I wish I had written it!

Cecilia, you may sniff and consider yourself on the moral high ground, but the fact is that the cruise lines CHANGED THE RULES unilaterally. NCL et al are not legal government agencies, they are private, profit making enterprises whose ONLY hold upon us (and upon them) is contractual. They have chosen to change the contract unilaterally, saying, if you don't like it, go somewhere else, KNOWING, that as an oligopoly, there IS no where else to go.

Therefore, when I bring liquor on board (not concealing it, either) I am a) NOT violating my contract or b) committing a moral sin or c) committing either a legal sin or a legal tort. They can a) ignore it or b) attempt to interdict me. If I offer NO physical resistance I have committed no crime--but they cannot use physical force either. They MAY ask me to surrender the liquor, but only with the promise to return it. They MAY ask me to leave the ship, if I refuse. They may choose to ignore it.

Now, I'm no lawyer, but I KNOW that, under the law, if they choose to ignore the "no alcohol" rule, they have now effectively and tacitly legally AGREED to change and abrogate that clause of the contract--and therefore they then have NO legal right to prevent ANYONE from carrying alcohol on board.

Now, I cannot and will not defend someone planning to bring a case of wine on-board just to save buying it at dinner. What you do in your cabin is one thing (and that's what I've been defending), but when they are serving you dinner, their obligation to serve safe, wholesome food may be compromised by your bringing consumables in--and they, and every restaurant in the world with a liquor license will say "no"--not to your having it, but to your opening it and drinking it. Besides, it's pretty tacky to be in a formal dining room, and brown-bag it! Nor can I defend someone bringing a rolling beer cooler to the ship's pool! Talk about an obstacle!

I believe it was Plato who discussed that there are two kinds of laws in society. The first is moral law (not imposing morality, but right and wrong). This protects us from murder, robbery, etc. The second has nothing to do with right and wrong but is based on establishing a smooth-running society. These are things like speed limits, traffic lights, noise ordinances and which side of the road to drive on. These are not inherently determined from right and wrong but are arbitrarily chosen and then abided by to provide a smooth and safe flow of society. My proof? In the US and most of Europe and North America we drive on the right side of the road. In Britain, Australia, Japan, much of the Caribbean and Africa, they drive on the left side of the road. Neither is inherently morally superior--but once the choice is made we (who aren't sociopaths) abide by it because it is LOGICAL that we all conform to this rule.

The ancient Greeks had yet to conceive of the 3rd concept--the contract. This is, supposedly, a set of agreements FREELY entered into by both parties and has its roots in Anglo-Saxon common law going back something like 600-1000 years. While contracts spell out what each party agrees to do, it also spells out penalties for failure to perform. The other party may elect not to enforce that penalty, because it's tough to keep someone to a contract they no longer wish to be bound by. Or they may enforce it. If NCL chooses not to enforce that clause of the contract, so be it.

  #76  
Old January 6th, 2005, 08:17 PM
shoreguy shoreguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vivianbstrd
Please excuse my ignorance, however I am taking my first cruise this upcoming November and am curious what the procedures are for checking luggage. Do they simply run it through a scanner and if something looks suspicious (like a bottle) they then search it? What about with carry-ons? How can they tell its a bottle anyway - shape, chemical composition (e.g. glass)??
Just like the Airport - all bags scanned. Carry on they ask you to remove the object. Checked bags they don't open but hold the bad in a common room and ask you to open and remove the object.

How can they tell - look at the screen in an airport - a bottle looks just like a bottle.

  #77  
Old January 6th, 2005, 08:45 PM
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salty dingo salty dingo is offline
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Default Most popular topic?

You gotta love these alcohol posts. I think it must be the most popular topic. Such heartfelt sentiment. You know, maybe I could write a book on this. I think I'll go check if the domain name www.cruise-alcohol-smuggling.com is available.

  #78  
Old January 6th, 2005, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoPiratesPlease
LeeAnne:
I'm jealous! You wrote such a clear and cogent argument I wish I had written it!
Garsh, thanks! I'm no lawyer either, but I am a writer so I try to express myself with a reasonable amount of logic. I have posted many times in the ubiquitous "booze smuggling" threads, because I have some pretty strong and (I believe) valid opinions, and I feel some sort of strange compulsion to set the record straight with the you-must-follow-all-rules folks who look askance at those of us who "smuggle". We are not all scumbags who are trying to save a buck, or to see what we can get away with.

Couple points I wanted to make:

1. The bar set-up isn't an acceptable solution for some of us. In my case, I am a single-malt Scotch lover, and I have my favorites, which are rarely carried on a cruiseline (although one of them can be found on Radisson ships). Some of the best are very hard to find anywhere, and when I do see one, I make of point of snatching it up. When I'm cruising, I find a special joy in sipping a rich, golden 15-yr-old Scotch on my balcony at the end of a wonderful evening. I do not feel that the cruise line should deny me that pleasure on my vacation, in my own room where I have paid to live and sleep. Nor do I feel they have a right to charge a surcharge to do so (such as some kind of "corkage fee" for booze in my room, where that fee covers no additional services).

2. The vast majority of fine restaurants have no problem with allowing patrons to bring in a special bottle of wine, and they charge a corkage fee for the service of pouring it for you. Most cruise ships will do this as well -- I was quite surprised to find out that NCL does not. RCI and Celebrity do. (Radisson does not charge, but then, they don't charge for ANY drinks at dinner, and you are free to bring whatever you want on board at no additional cost. Apparently their legal dept. is not worried about lawsuits from drunken idiots.) I have brought many bottles of fine wine that I'd been cellaring onto both RCI and Celebrity ships, and had no problem.

One thing I've learned here -- I've decided NOT to patronize NCL, now that I know how they treat their passengers in terms of searching them, delaying them, and siezing their possessions. That's certainly not the type of environment in which I want to spend my precious leisure time.

LeeAnne

  #79  
Old January 6th, 2005, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leejnd4
2. The vast majority of fine restaurants have no problem with allowing patrons to bring in a special bottle of wine, and they charge a corkage fee for the service of pouring it for you. Most cruise ships will do this as well -- I was quite surprised to find out that NCL does not. .....snip....

One thing I've learned here -- I've decided NOT to patronize NCL, now that I know how they treat their passengers in terms of searching them, delaying them, and siezing their possessions. That's certainly not the type of environment in which I want to spend my precious leisure time.

LeeAnne
Base your decision on facts. NCL does permit you to bring special wines and pay a corkage. The exception is if it is already on their wine list. They do not delay passengers but they will hold a bag in a common room for you to claim. They do not search passengers or their bags but ask you to open like all the other lines.

I like you enjoy a single malt and always bring one. By "rule" it is not permitted on any mass market cruise ship.

  #80  
Old January 6th, 2005, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoPiratesPlease
Cecilia, you may sniff and consider yourself on the moral high ground, but the fact is that the cruise lines CHANGED THE RULES unilaterally. NCL et al are not legal government agencies, they are private, profit making enterprises whose ONLY hold upon us (and upon them) is contractual. They have chosen to change the contract unilaterally, saying, if you don't like it, go somewhere else, KNOWING, that as an oligopoly, there IS no where else to go.
If it makes you feel better to cite philosophers and snub your nose at me, fine. By the way...NCL is not the only cruise line so there are other options for your cruise. There's no need to keep trying to change my opinion. We disagree.

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