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  #21  
Old December 26th, 2011, 05:31 PM
mystkittsdivebuddy mystkittsdivebuddy is offline
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Originally Posted by Mike&Nancy View Post
Went to Fort Lauderdale last weekend, 12-09-2011, and figured I could do my 2 dives to qualify for "Scuba" and then see if I wanted to go farther. Little did I know that Mother Nature was gonna take an active hand in it. It's not nice to fool with her, let me tell you. When we went out, it was raining, the wind was coming in @ 20 knots, with 8' waves. To say the least, for a first-time diver, this was not the way it was sposed to be. I got suited up, sickern' a dog, but finally made the giant stride in. It was terrible. I put my snorkle in first but the waves kept loading it up and I was starting to panic for breath. Finally got my regulator in and my DM finally said let's go under. We did 32' for about 45 minutes(I was gulping air), and on the ascent up, my equalibrium was so off, I was sick before we even broke water. To say the least, I did not do the 2nd dive. And may very well never do the 2nd dive. We're doing a cruise out of SJ in Feb and wanted to have the "Scuba" certification, so don't know what I will do now. I have never ever in my life felt so helpless and dependent upon one person as I did in that water that day. I am a very independent individual and don't like that feeling. So, guess time will tell.

Mike!!
This brings out one of the worst aspects of the Dive Industry, the "money" comes before the comfort and well being of the student.
It has already been said by other Instructors that they would not consider taking a beginner out in those conditions.
I teach all the time in St Kitts and if conditions are bad, then we cancel the dive. The guest experience and safety is the overriding factor.
Mike, please do not be put off by this, Scuba is a wonderful sport and with the proper training you will find it the most enjoyable experience of future vacations.
On the point of being a "scuba diver", rather than an "Open Water" diver then please remember that you do have limitations to depth (40ft) and that a dive professional must be present in the water at all times.
This does not mean that you have to be specially looked after, or that the group will be small, just that the dive must be lead by an Instructor or Divemaster and the depth of 40 ft must be available for you.
In practice the way you are treated will differ depending on the individual practices of the dive shop. There will however be many dives you cannot do because the 40 ft depth is not available.
You must tell the dive shop that your qualification is "Scuba Diver" or you may be booking something that ultimately they will not allow you to do.
If you are going ahead with your plan to complete the training on a cruise then remember to take your logbook (should have the knowledge, pool work and your Dive 1 signed off). Also book ahead, either with the cruise or with a local dive shop at one of your ports of call.
One last point, you may prefer to do your dive 1 again, as the experience was so bad it was obviously not much of a training experience for you.
Don't give up, don't be put off, just find yourself an instructor who cares!
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  #22  
Old December 26th, 2011, 06:13 PM
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Hi Terry. I understand most of your post, but I don't understand the part about the 40' being available to me. If it's NOT 40', I really don't care. That 30'+ on my first dive was enough for me, at least for that time. I can see where everyone is trying to get me to look, that I'm gonna get bored with just 40'. That is a distinct possibility as I do get bored with things rather quickly.

Terry, we're going to be in St Kitts Feb. 7th from 8-5, and hopefully the weather will co-operate and let us dock. Last time we went thru there the wind was up so much that the capt decided to skip St Kitts and continue on. Would you be willing to take me out for my 2nd dive?? And how much?? If you prefer not to answer here, e-mail me at LedPype@aol.com. Remember tho, I'm an older guy and things get done a little slower now.

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  #23  
Old December 27th, 2011, 06:21 PM
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if one is qualified 'scuba diver'

and completes two dives

wouldn't they then meet the requirements for (PADI) Open Water Diver?

There are no additional skill tests are there?
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  #24  
Old December 28th, 2011, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt_BJ View Post
if one is qualified 'scuba diver'

and completes two dives

wouldn't they then meet the requirements for (PADI) Open Water Diver?

There are no additional skill tests are there?
I know there is additional classroom time, possibly pool time and OW skills, too.

Personally, I still think the OP does not see the big picture and I'm hoping he keeps an open mind about finishing OW. I just feel like he is going to get burned by cruising to a great dive locale and not being able to dive with his cert unless he hires a private DM. Every dive day I've ever done has started with 60+ ft.
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  #25  
Old December 28th, 2011, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Kryssa View Post
I know there is additional classroom time, possibly pool time and OW skills, too.

Personally, I still think the OP does not see the big picture and I'm hoping he keeps an open mind about finishing OW. I just feel like he is going to get burned by cruising to a great dive locale and not being able to dive with his cert unless he hires a private DM. Every dive day I've ever done has started with 60+ ft.
True. As a divemaster, I would refuse to limit a group to 40 ft just to serve one "diver."
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  #26  
Old December 28th, 2011, 06:37 PM
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I know there is additional classroom time, possibly pool time and OW skills, too.


please expand . . . I've looked at the PADI site . . . what are the additional requirements specifically?

(I was certified in the 70's by a PADI instructor with a single digit instuctor number ... an old timer .... several hundred dives as recently as last March )

I understand your guess answer but I'm looking for one from an Instructor

what does a diver need to do to be open water certified?

retake the entire course?

to go from OW to advanced you only demonstrate new skills . . .
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Last edited by Capt_BJ; December 28th, 2011 at 06:47 PM.
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  #27  
Old December 28th, 2011, 07:29 PM
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If you don't already have one, consider getting a "dry top" snorkel. They help keep the water out while you're using your snorkel on the surface. But if its really rough I keep my regulator in my mouth from the time I leave the boat to the time I get back on board up the ladder.

SCUBA diving has a way of potentially compounding small problems to big problems if you don't address them when you should.
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  #28  
Old December 29th, 2011, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gliner View Post
True. As a divemaster, I would refuse to limit a group to 40 ft just to serve one "diver."
And we are thankful for that!
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  #29  
Old December 29th, 2011, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt_BJ View Post
I know there is additional classroom time, possibly pool time and OW skills, too.


please expand . . . I've looked at the PADI site . . . what are the additional requirements specifically?

(I was certified in the 70's by a PADI instructor with a single digit instuctor number ... an old timer .... several hundred dives as recently as last March )

I understand your guess answer but I'm looking for one from an Instructor

what does a diver need to do to be open water certified?

retake the entire course?

to go from OW to advanced you only demonstrate new skills . . .
Where is an OWSI+ when you need one?
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  #30  
Old December 29th, 2011, 09:15 PM
mystkittsdivebuddy mystkittsdivebuddy is offline
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Default Padi Scuba Diver V Padi Open Water Diver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryssa View Post
Where is an OWSI+ when you need one?
I will try to be brief so just the main points

PADI SCUBA DIVER

Knowledge development modules 1 to 3 . Does NOT take final exam.
Pool Dives 1 to 3
Open Water Dives 1 + 2
Depth limitation 40ft
Must Dive with a Padi professional in the water at all times.


PADI OPEN WATER DIVER

All 6 Knowledge development modules and a final exam.
All 5 Pool Dives
All 4 Open Water Dives
Depth limitation 60ft
Is taught to be able to dive with a buddy.

Scuba Diver can be upgraded to Open Water Diver at any time by completing the rest of the course.

Just looking at this list is really very simplistic, please talk to a Dive professional if you are considering the courses.
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  #31  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 11:59 AM
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It's been awhile since I've been on, mainly because I felt bad about not going for my 2nd, 3rd, and 4th dives to qualify. So, with that being said, we did do the SJ B2B cruise and our very last stop on the 2nd leg was St. Croix. Offered thru RCCL was a Discovery Scuba excursion. I had no idea that these could be offered as I usually don't look at the ship's excursions. Just packed in too tight usually. So, I jumped at the chance to do this, since I'd had my other training and I was hoping it wouldn't be as rough as the FLL one. And I also thought that just maybe it would goad me into completing my OW cert. To say the least, this was the most fun I'd ever had, period. It was amazing. There were 14 of us. And 4 DM's. They took us down to the 40' mark and we stayed down as long as the air held out, about 40 minutes or so. I think come Summer I'm going to try and go back and do the muddy lake and get my OW cert. I can see now why everyone was urging me onward and upward. I'm still on Cloud 9.

Mike
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  #32  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 12:04 PM
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That's great!!!
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  #33  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Paul View Post
Keys are a great idea. Great place to dive, lots to see and yes usually much calmer water.
Many years ago we went down to the Keys for our OW certification dives. The ocean was rough! We eneded up doing our checkout dives in a canal where the water was calm and the visibility about 3 feet! Two of us went down with the instructor and his assistant at a time. Figured if we can make it there we can make it anywhere!

The first dives in the ocean after certification were in somewhat in choppy water but it wasn't a big issue since we could see so much further!

The "scuba" certification thing is new to me.
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  #34  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurie S. View Post
I can't remember when I haven't been asked for my card. I've been asked for my logbook several times, too.
On the otherhand I have never been asked for my log book.

My usual cruise dive buddy is more advanced than I am and he doesn't log anything. One time he left his c-card on the ship (it was PADI so they could have checked it online) but when the dive shop saw me with my log book they said that if he signed my log book on previous dives they'd accept that as proof. So me with the geeky log book came in handy that day.
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  #35  
Old March 2nd, 2012, 06:52 PM
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Have dove all over the place - including the Red Sea ! ALWAYS take my C card...... but don't even own a log book. Have never been asked once for it.

That said, I forgot both mine and dh's cards in December on our post Xmas trip to Abaco Bahamas. Called our dog sitter and she emailed my PADI numbers to us from our cards....... dive shop took those.

Just depends on the dive shop I guess....but I have never been asked for a log book.
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  #36  
Old March 19th, 2012, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike&Nancy View Post
Gerry12, We're about in the same range of age. And the Caribbean is probably all I will ever dive in. I'm hoping to get at least one dive in to complete the "scuba" cert while we're cruising in Feb. If I feel comfortable after that, then I may attempt to complete the OW cert. Want to see what the DM's are like on-board ship and how patient they are with us older folk.

Mike!!
I'd like to give you my opinion .... and keep in mind I'm not trying to dissuade or pursuade you.

I'm 65 and my wife calls me a water baby since if I find something wet I'm in it. I love the water and Scuba was always something I wanted to do. So after reading this forum last year I signed up for the OW course. Passed it in two weekends and got my certification.

However .....

I was never comfortable down past 10 feet or so. Dunno why ... perhaps I'm a big wuss. But whatever it is I don't like Scuba diving. I've never been back under the surface since the final dive to pass. I still snorkel and still love it.

I hated the bulky equipment, I hated putting it on and taking it off. I hated having to take off the wetsuit just to pee. I was always struggling with keeping my feet down ... guess my legs are more bouyant since I was the only one who had that problem ... and yes it was a constant fight. I was the one who always had the lowest pressure left in the tank so I must have been sucking in more air. (Nervous maybe?)

I mentioned this to one of the PADI instructors and he said if I wasn't comfortable not to dive. He said diving should be fun and some people just aren't cut out for it so I've taken his advice.

Again, not trying to influence you, just telling you Scuba isn't for everyone. I wish you well in whatever you decide.
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  #37  
Old March 20th, 2012, 01:43 PM
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Hi Cruiserguy,

LOL, I kinda got tickeled when you said you couldn't keep your feet down. I'm not quite that bad, but I seem to be pretty damn bouyant too. I have to carry about 20lbs of weight with me to keep me down. The experience this time was such a 180 degree turnaround from my very first one, that I have to try to get the OW cert. The sea was just like glass on this one. I kinda wish there had been some choppiness just to see if I could handle it. But I know what you're talking about, putting all the gear on. My big problem I had in the confined water courses was getting that damn thing off and then back on. I've had rotator-cuff surgeries on both shoulders and they definitely limit me to movement. But, I did get it done and loved this last dive. Gonna try and we'll see what happens.
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  #38  
Old March 20th, 2012, 03:02 PM
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Mike,

I'm glad to hear that you had a good time. First time out in open ocean with swells can be really intimidating. Happened to me too.

We were booked in a resort in the Keys to get out Advanced Open Water (myself, my son and a friend). We got down a day early so my son & I decided to go out for a warm up before the course started. What a disaster. 6 -7 foot swells, 4-6 knot current and a boat full of newbies. My son and I were together in line to jump off the back and just after he went in, a newby stood up (nearly knocking me over) and cut in front of me. Of course he was mis-rigged, hadn't turned on his air and had his weight belt threaded wrong. While the deckhand was trying to get him straightened out, my son was headed for New York because he missed the dragline. I finally gave up and rolled off the side of the boat. Swam over to my son and found that he was having equipment issues. His regulator had a crack in the mouthpiece and he was sucking seawater with every breath. He hadn't quite panicked, but it was close. So we headed back to the dive boat to get his equipment fixed. If you have ever tried to fight a 4 knot current, it is not fun. I had to drag him the last 100 yards or so to the dragline. After some fun getting up the ladder (think washing machine agitator on steroids and you are the socks) we were so exhausted we skipped going back in. That was a mistake. I ended up feeding the fishes a nice warm meal for the rest of the afternoon.

After that first trip out, I was sure my son was never going to set foot on a boat again. But 7am, he was there shaking me out of bed, ready to go at it again. The weather was much nicer and we both got our AOW cards over the next couple of days. He was 12 at the time and we have gone diving every chance we get. So don't give up. 99% of the dives have been wonderful. The other 1% have been interesting.

As far as equipment goes, it gets better with practice. I have shoulder issues also and it can be a bear sometimes getting into the BCD. I have found I just need to get it on most of the way and fix it in the water. Most dive masters get upset when I just throw the equipment in and get into it in the water, so I fight my way into the straps and then fix it up in the water. It also helps if you bring your own equipment. That way you know how it is going to work and you can pre-rig it to make it easier to get into. The rental stuff is usually pretty beat up.

Also if you are having bouyancy issues, ankle weights can help. They make soft ones that wrap around your ankles and help trim you. I normally go heavy and compensate with the BCD and bleed it off as the tanks become emptier. If you have to empty your BCD completely to make the initial descent, you need more weight. You have to remember that as the tank goes empty, it becomes bouyant and if you have no air to bleed in the BCD you will start to float up.

Anyway, welcome to the Brotherhood of the Bottom Dwellers. And remember the motto "You are not in trouble until you see the boat below you!"

ken
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  #39  
Old March 20th, 2012, 03:42 PM
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From my Old inst. back in 67.
Requirements to consider yourself an avg. intermediate diver.
50hr. Snorkeling ( now called freediving)
50hr. Scuba Diving
After this 100hr total you might consider yourself a avg. intermediate diver.

Truth:
The most likely accidents that will occur in 40ft OR 60ft OR 80ft. are the same for a single tank non repetitive dive.
A depth limit of 40ft. is no real protection from them.
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  #40  
Old March 20th, 2012, 04:00 PM
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Ken, I was laughing out loud at your post. Not AT you, mind you, but WITH you. Poor kid, trying to fight that current. And as far as you having to pull him back in, the DM on my first dive had to "tired diver" me for a ways because I was so sick. And as far as feeding "chum" to the fishes......yep......the rest of the afternoon waiting on the other divers. It was a 2 tank dive.
I actually went to a dive shop this afternoon and expressed my concern for having to take off and put on the BCD in the water. Told them that I had done it but it was very difficult for me. The DM there told me that was NOT one of the requirements for OW cert. Imagine my surprise. My mouth must have been open because he told me to shut it. That's one of the MAIN reasons I've been putting off trying for the OW cert. I really struggled with that in the pool and figured I'd never get it out in OW. The DM said they hold OW dives starting in May over a 2-day weekend so I will be trying to get in one of the classes for June. A re-fresher course is gonna cost me $75 for a 3 hour course, but worth it to me. Will hold off taking that until closer to the time to actually qualify.
frediver....I definitely have the 50hrs of snorkling. Love to do that. And actually have about 2 hours of scuba diving now. So well on my way to being an average intermediate diver, LOL. Thanks guys for all the stories and help. Keep 'em coming. It makes great reading.......at least to me it does.
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