Costa Concordia sinks (link)

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#21
sf usa
561 Posts
Joined Jan 2002
Captain now charged with manslaugter, abandoning ship before many passengers. Crew were not properly trained for emergency and also rushed off ship before many passengers. French couple say there was no lifeboat drill when they boarded in France.
#23
321 Posts
Joined Aug 2003
Cruise ship captain: That rock wasn't on my chart
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#24
Connecticut
470 Posts
Joined Apr 2006
Originally posted by Jim Avery
Interesting difference of tracks. The first site shows much more detail and yes, the ship is obviously not heading back to sea but is virtually ashore on the island. Very curious. I am amazed that, with all the extensive compartmentalization of modern ships, that the list developed so rapidly. Very scary stuff. Heading off to Queen Victoria on Thursday.
I frequent that site often and the underlay map often is quite off , sometimes showing the ship in port, "in" the land. If you study it, the course is actually the same in both sites and both do not show the final turn which had to have happened.
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#25
SE Queensland, Australia
5,336 Posts
Joined Oct 2007
The AIS track is obviously missing a number or reporting points - the first 4-5 points are 2-3 minutes apart , but then at the end there is a 15 minute gap in reports. Thus AIS does not show us where the ship was during that missing 15 minutes. The Turkish newspaper report claims that the ship went between those rocks just to the south of the town. I don't know what info they have to support that - but if it is true, that would be mind blowingly incredible!!! The gap between those rocks is only about 60 metres -- http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en...h&z=17&vpsrc=6 I simply can't believe that any cruiseship would try to go through there!!

Barry
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#27
USA
9,195 Posts
Joined Apr 2010
Originally posted by safarigal
We are on QV at the moment, and the captain just made an announcement about the Costa ship. He also reassured us that the officers and crew on QV were well trained in emergencies. He then went on to say that the weather is deteriorating and we can expect a stormy night tonight.................

Hi safarigal. Thanks for your post; best wishes to you and all the ships at sea. Regards, -S
#28
USA
9,195 Posts
Joined Apr 2010
Originally posted by Jimsgirl
I always attend the muster no matter which ship I am on, BUT I will admit that in the past I have sighed , wished I had the nerve not to go, and listened with only half my mind on that being said.

In future I will be far more attentive, and never think of not attending in.

That is the lesson we should all learn from this terrible event and the discussion here.

Mrs Jimsgirl, I also plead guilty to not paying attention to muster drills after the first 7 or 8 voyges on QM2.

But considering the events on the Costa Concordia, with the ship listing to such a degree by the time the abandon ship was called, muster drill was rendered meaningless. (If your muster station is underwater, where do you go?) Passengers rely on the captain and crew, but we also (hopefully) know not to panic.

Unfortunately, we know that all too often the facts of the situation are not communicated to passengers; to me, this is a breach of trust.
#29
Chester, UK
1,118 Posts
Joined Apr 2011
The thing about the muster/safety drill is that is utterly pointless.

Before I'm abused for saying that, I'll tell you why I think it.

1) I've briefly worked on an off-shore North See oil rig. To be allowed to go I had to undertake a 5-day off-shore survival course. So when I first went to the ship's safety briefly and realised the whole thing was a total waste of time.

2) I work on an industrial site from time to time. Everyone who is on the site must watch a safety video once a month. One of the things on it is what the two alarms sound like and what to do if they go off ( one is the fire alarm, the other is if there is a toxic chemical incident ). A few months ago, one of the alarms did go off and nearly every one walked outside and headed to the fire assembly point. The problem was that is was the gas alarm, so they did totally the wrong thing. But, they have all seen to video, so they should have all know what to do - but they didn't.

3) I reckon if you ask a passenger on a ship what they were told in the safety briefing an hour after it ended, I'd bet most people will not be able to tell you, and if they do, it will most likely be wrong.

My point is, my occupation sometimes takes me to hazardous work places, and I see "tick box" safety all the time. I could give you loads more examples of the rubbish I see, all in the name of "health and safety" and the muster briefing on a cruise ship is a prime example.
#30
SE Queensland, Australia
5,336 Posts
Joined Oct 2007
I can see your point - and as an ex-Navy man, I have always known that if some major emergency was to happen on a cruiseship (I have been mainly thinking of fire up until now), chaos would reign.

The average age of many cruiseship passengers is quite high - and the average fitness level is low (many are morbidly obese) . Can you imagine what would happen if a large cruiseship was to have a major fire and undisciplined civilian elderly/unfit passengers had to get up perhaps 5-6 decks by stairs in the dark (can't use lifts), etc.

My understanding is that the "safety lectures" on Costa ships are done in 5 languages -- is this so??

Barry
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A Blog of our unusual "World Cruise" - Brisbane to Brisbane, Australia - 12 weeks on two different P&O ships, Oriana and Arcadia - with a White Christmas in-between....UK 2010

A review of our 28 day cruise to Tahiti on Pacific Pearl.... Pacific Pearl to Tahiti

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#31
3,345 Posts
Joined Sep 2008
Originally posted by guernseyguy
The ship is operating a circular itinerary, with most passengers embarking and disembarking in Savona - and they had their drill 6 days ago. Some passengers boarded yesterday in Civitavecchia and they would have had their muster drill tomorrow with the newly boarded Savona passengers, within 24 hours of sailing, as required by law.
I have always thought this to be very unsafe practice.

David.
#32
Old York
5,646 Posts
Joined May 2007
Originally posted by bazzaw
I can see your point - and as an ex-Navy man, I have always known that if some major emergency was to happen on a cruiseship (I have been mainly thinking of fire up until now), chaos would reign.

The average age of many cruiseship passengers is quite high - and the average fitness level is low (many are morbidly obese) . Can you imagine what would happen if a large cruiseship was to have a major fire and undisciplined civilian elderly/unfit passengers had to get up perhaps 5-6 decks by stairs in the dark (can't use lifts), etc.

My understanding is that the "safety lectures" on Costa ships are done in 5 languages -- is this so??

Barry
Another thing that has always worried me about the muster drill is that it is predicated on the idea that you will go from your cabin to "your" muster station, and the muster stations are basically arranged so that there is a more or less even distribution of cabins to muster stations.

All this is fine if the accident happens, for example, during the early hours of the morning when just about everyone is in their cabin. But if it happens during the day when passengers are spread around ever public space from one end of the ship to the other then the probability of mayhem becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

J
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#33
Scotland
530 Posts
Joined May 2007
A scary prospect indeed. Just thinking about it all happening in the dark too while all dressed up..............
Good point about the predominance of elderly and pretty infirm people who enjoy cruising too. Oh dear oh dear
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#34
Thornbury (like anyone would know it!), uk
1,098 Posts
Joined Oct 2007
It's even scarier if you add alcohol into the equation at that time of night, in evening wear & spread all over the ship= Bedlam!

A lady has posted on the Costa forum telling her story. She & her family are waiting to fly back to Oz. It sounds terrifying.
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#35
47 Posts
Joined Sep 2010
I do think that many commentators are completely missing the point here.

If you knew nothing about this incident but were simply shown the pictures and told that the ship was nearly full and asked how many casualties there were then most people would come up with far larger numbers than seem to be the case.

I live near Grayrigg and was there the morning after the train crash. I looked at the scene of devastation along with the intact carriages and vowed to travel in this type of train wherever possible.

Clearly this accident should never have happened (whatever the cause) but the ship having got into this position the fact that the vast majority of passengers are safe and well is a tribute to the crew, the passengers and the safety systems.
#36
UK
4,064 Posts
Joined Jan 2009
The number not accounted for has now been set at just 17 (previously around 40) - 11 passengers and 6 crew.

Still just 3 people confirmed dead.
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#37
1,065 Posts
Joined Feb 2009
Originally posted by Ubarrow
I do think that many commentators are completely missing the point here.

If you knew nothing about this incident but were simply shown the pictures and told that the ship was nearly full and asked how many casualties there were then most people would come up with far larger numbers than seem to be the case.

I live near Grayrigg and was there the morning after the train crash. I looked at the scene of devastation along with the intact carriages and vowed to travel in this type of train wherever possible.

Clearly this accident should never have happened (whatever the cause) but the ship having got into this position the fact that the vast majority of passengers are safe and well is a tribute to the crew, the passengers and the safety systems.
Totally agree.
#38
NYC
3,472 Posts
Joined Mar 2011
Originally posted by ToadOfToadHall
The thing about the muster/safety drill is that is utterly pointless... I had to undertake a 5-day off-shore survival course. So when I first went to the ship's safety briefly and realised the whole thing was a total waste of time...
I'll take a chance and disagreeing with you since what happens on an oil rig is considerably more volatile than a sailing on a cruise ship.



At the very least, after a muster drill people know that they are supposed to stop whatever else they were doing, grab medication and other essentials, get their life vest and show up at the appointed place. (If the ship was so catastrophically damaged that ALL of the muster stations were submerged then of course this would be pointless.)


On a port call in Barbados in December 2010, the QM2 crew had a drill deploying the port side lifeboats. Some ships crew were inside suited up in their safety gear so presumably that boat would be their charge should the situation ever come to that. (Whether they would still keep up these standards now that the ship is the "Bermuda Queen" is another argument.)



With all do respect, what to you therefore propose? Mandatory attendance at a safety video before the ship sails? What if somebody doesn't attend? Put them off the ship? Perhaps ban evening wear in case there should be an emergency?
#39
Chester, UK
1,118 Posts
Joined Apr 2011
Originally posted by mariepr
With all do respect, what to you therefore propose? Mandatory attendance at a safety video before the ship sails?
No, the complete opposite. If you read the example I gave about the fire alarm/gas alarm incident that I witnessed, what I'm saying is the safety briefings/videos or whatever are a waste of time.

People simply don't take the information in, i.e. these briefings serve no real purpose, so don't bother with them.

But, that will never happen, because the main purpose of the safety briefing is to protect the company involved from any legal action.

Originally posted by mariepr
after a muster drill people know that they are supposed to stop whatever else they were doing, grab medication and other essentials,
You see, that's wrong. If the ship is sinking or on fire, people should not be wasting time looking for their pills or anything else. What can be "essential" given the fact that the ship is sinking ?
#40
NYC
3,472 Posts
Joined Mar 2011
We're going to have to disaree on this one. At least people know what they are supposed to do when the alarm sounds. (Whether they do it or not is another issue.)

As for the legal issues, I couldn't agree more. There was an earlier thread where the QM2 stated the emergency procedures during the gas turbine fire. One person commented that they were "ninety minutes from loading the life boats". It appears the cruise lines are in a lose-lose situtation. Start emergency procedures and they're accused of inciting unnecessary alarm. Don't start them in time (as one of the Concordia survivers recounted) and the situation is worse.