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  #21  
Old January 30th, 2012, 06:50 PM
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Have often heard "Cranky's" advice....personally, I have never held airline stock long since I made money as a kid on Braniff. I got out before deregulation started -- the stockholder trip to South America was one interesting aspect to being a BN investor. So my AA comment was a joke.

I have shorted airlines, and that always worked out well.

PS: Crandall
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  #22  
Old January 31st, 2012, 03:30 PM
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The business section of our Sunday paper has a big number every week with a caption underneath. Once it was a "0" captioned with "Total profits made by the US airline industry since the Wright Brothers".
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  #23  
Old April 19th, 2012, 12:54 PM
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American lost $1.7 billion in the 1st quarter. WOW!


http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/19/news...ines/index.htm
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  #24  
Old April 20th, 2012, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CruzVinnieCruz View Post
The news reported that there are merger talks between American Airlines and US Airways.

Vinnie
That possibility has been in the news for a while now, but recently a couple of AA unions seem to have approved the possible merger. Two airlines in trouble merge and the result is . . .? I assume US Airways, as the smaller partner, would move into the Oneworld Alliance from the Star Alliance. Routes would be cut at some point? We fly a lot between the U.S. and Brazil and have usually taken Continental. The flights from Houston and Newark haven't yet been reduced since the merger with United, but it's early yet. US Airways has just the one route to Brazil (Charlotte to Rio), while AA has several. My wife quite liked the true lie-flat seats on US Airways's 767. I remember when US Airways and America West merged. Latter was bigger but the former's name was better known and/or had a more national/international right to it.

Last edited by Fattony; April 20th, 2012 at 04:33 PM.
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  #25  
Old April 20th, 2012, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Fattony View Post
That possibility has been in the news for a while now, but recently a couple of AA unions seem to have approved the possible merger. Two airlines in trouble merge and the result is . . .? I assume US Airways, as the smaller partner, would move into the Oneworld Alliance from the Star Alliance. Routes would be cut at some point? We fly a lot between the U.S. and Brazil and have usually taken Continental. The flights from Houston and Newark haven't yet been reduced since the merger with United, but it's early yet. US Airways has just the one route to Brazil (Charlotte to Rio), while AA has several. My wife quite liked the true lie-flat seats on US Airways's 767. I remember when US Airways and America West merged. Latter was bigger but the former's name was better known and/or had a more national/international right to it.
Yes, I think the labor unions like the merger possibility because US Airways claims they would let only 6800 people go, while American plans to axe 13,000. Who knows what the reality would be.

Funny thing about US Airways ... I remember back around 1980 when a regional airline known as Allegheny wanted to expand and sound more national. Allegheny bought their new name of US Air from an air freight forwarder ... how far they've come from those regional days.
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  #26  
Old April 21st, 2012, 02:06 AM
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Yes, I think the labor unions like the merger possibility because US Airways claims they would let only 6800 people go, while American plans to axe 13,000. Who knows what the reality would be.

Funny thing about US Airways ... I remember back around 1980 when a regional airline known as Allegheny wanted to expand and sound more national. Allegheny bought their new name of US Air from an air freight forwarder ... how far they've come from those regional days.
The airline you're talking about was then bought by America West who decided to adopt the name (and the "US" IATA code). Everything else "US Air" is really America West, including their headquarters in Phoenix, management team, "AWE" ICAO code, and their "Cactus" call sign.
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  #27  
Old April 21st, 2012, 10:03 AM
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Yes, I think the labor unions like the merger possibility because US Airways claims they would let only 6800 people go, while American plans to axe 13,000. Who knows what the reality would be.
AA's union management and membership needs to look "beneath the hood" to find out what they are getting themselves into. The merger between AmWest and US employees has NEVER been fully integrated. There are STILL pockets of union employees working under two DIFFERENT contracts. One part of the baggage handlers at PHL are STILL operating under a different contract and could CARE LESS about your luggage. There is STILL hate and dissension because of the unfair way AmWest FA's were treated during the merger. Most pilots at AmWest got the short end of the stick also.

Phoenix SkyHarbor Terminal 4 is one of the nastiest, messiest, slowest terminals in all the airports I fly through regularly. And it primarily houses US Air and WN. The CEO of AmWest took a perfectly good airline, merged it with a failing airline (US Air) and now has neither a good airline nor one that even has decent service or clean planes.

Doug Parker is on a major ego trip. The Phoenix newspapers and TV are FILLED with all the "good" that will come as a result of the "hometown" airline getting bigger. US is neither the "hometown" airline nor a very good corporate neighbor. Of all the large corporations based in Phoenix, US Air contributes by far the least to the community. APS (Arizona Public Service) sponsors community events continually. Freeport-Moran (mining company), Swift, PetSmart, Apollo Group (University of Phoenix), Insight, etc. etc. all splash their names around and give, give, give to the community. You RARELY hear of anything US Airways Group is involved in except the golf tournament (where the CEO was arrested for drunk driving when he left).

Bad, bad move IMHO for the AA unions to even be thinking of partnering up with US Air. I am sure one of the big AA charities "Change for Good" will go by the wayside very, very fast if there is a merger. And that will disappoint and infuriate a lot of international flight attendants. Last year they collected over 1.5 million in change, all donated to UNICEF. They are very, very proud of their efforts.

I shudder to think of this happening.
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  #28  
Old April 21st, 2012, 11:07 AM
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I have been waiting for your opinion greatam and FlyerTalkers also. I myself do not like the idea of a merger but I am also fairly clueless about how these things work. The media is good at spinning things and that is why I never really believe all they say. Two sides to everything and nothing is ever all good.....
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  #29  
Old April 21st, 2012, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottbee View Post
The airline you're talking about was then bought by America West who decided to adopt the name (and the "US" IATA code). Everything else "US Air" is really America West, including their headquarters in Phoenix, management team, "AWE" ICAO code, and their "Cactus" call sign.
Yes, I understand that ... my point was how far a regional airline (Allegheny) progressed, absorbing other carriers along the way, until it too was taken over by yet another carrier.
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  #30  
Old April 21st, 2012, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSUmom View Post
I have been waiting for your opinion greatam and FlyerTalkers also. I myself do not like the idea of a merger but I am also fairly clueless about how these things work. The media is good at spinning things and that is why I never really believe all they say. Two sides to everything and nothing is ever all good.....
I am not the only one who feels that "deceitful Doug" is BS'ing the unions and will take them down as fast as he builds them up.

Here's a direct quote from the very long thread on Flyertalk-"I would laugh my *** off at all the union suckers who ran from Horton only to end up deceived by Doug."

There are many, many others in the thread who feel the same way. There is absolutely NO advantage to the unions to cozy up to US Air. Just think this one through-Doug Parker offered the employees MORE than AA in terms of "hard" costs (meaning salary). But AA needs to get at least 1B in savings to be viable. So how do you offer MORE MONEY and slash costs at the same time with the same aircraft??? Sounds like our government and their never ending printing machine.

Some of AA's equipment (the MD-80's particularly) are HUGE fuel hogs. And in this day and age of high fuel costs, those planes are a drag on the bottom line.

Here is a pretty good explanation about what Doug Parker offered the AA unions and what AA is offering:

"I can assure you that it will not be even close to the $1 billion reduction needed. I just saw the bridge term sheet posted the US forum.

No Furloughs
Wage Increases: 2.5% on effective date. 1.5% annually over next 5 years.

Schedule Maximum:
Minimum of seventy (70) credit hours and a maximum of ninety (90) credit hours per bid period.

Can someone tell me how they are going to get the productivity out of the 90hour/month increase without furloughs?


I don't think that they will get much savings out of the retirement costs for a while with terms like this:

Current employees will receive automatic 401(k) contributions for 5 years, with no match requirement. Contribution levels as follows:
9.9% age 50 +
6.75% age 40 – 50
5.5% age 39 – below

Considering that the median age of the FA workforce is over 50, a 9.9% contribution rate is right around the cost of the pension contributions.

Also:

Maintain all other provisions in our current Contract including:
Vacation accrual and pay
Current PVDs
Sick hour use and current sick policy

My favorite part is that a new contract would go to binding arbitration 60 days after single carrier issue if there is no permanent contract. So it isn't going to be some deus ex machina for US to impose a more productive contract after merger.

Just wow... giving away the farm indeed."

Bad business all the way around with this merger. You certainly won't catch me going into Terminal 4 in Phoenix very darn often if the merger happens. I will fly Continental to NYC for my monthly meetings and who ever I need to to get to a US gateway for my international flights. You won't catch me on a Doug Parker merged airline except in last minute emergencies.
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  #31  
Old April 21st, 2012, 03:46 PM
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I am learning so much from what you post and I thank you. I have been a loyal AA flyer and only one time did I fly another airline - southwest because I had a family emergency. I enjoy reading your thoughts and opinions it puts a whole different light on what is really going on. Again, thanks.
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  #32  
Old April 21st, 2012, 04:13 PM
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They were discussing the AWE/AMR proposal on the morning news. If the merger were to go through (and it's rather unlikely IMHO), the headquarters would be moved from Tempe to Fort Worth. So much for growing the "hometown" airline!
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  #33  
Old April 21st, 2012, 08:09 PM
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As a loyal AAer (despite being located in the Pacific Northwest, or, as it's referred to by American Airlines, Pluto) I'm watching this whole melodrama unfold with a degree of cynicism. As in, if my eyes were rolling any faster you'd hear a buzzing noise.

Between the AA union leadership, the Horton/Arpey Mahogany Row crowd, and Doug Parker, I think we have the makings of a Hubris Black Hole - all matter and energy is sucked into the singularity and all that comes out are neutrinos and radio noise. If it weren't for the 80,000 or 90,000 jobs on the line, I'd really be in a mind set to "let God sort them out."

For Parker to play the White Night is beyond ludicrous; for Horton to think he can nuke the union contracts then expect the unions to sign off on a reorganization plan like the Amen Chorus makes me wonder what is in the water in Fort Worth, and for the unions to think US Airways has got some sort of pro-union mojo rising is... well... do I really want those guys driving me around at 35,000 feet?

But y'know, you look around the world for examples of how it could be done better, and you find... what? Wee Willy Walsh, who moved from Aer Fungus to BA and now Iberia/IAG, whose main contribution to the global economy has been the fuel surcharge? United/Continental, who both know the name of every bankruptcy lawyer in Washington DC? Delta/Northwest, who fly a fleet of DC-9s manufactured when LBJ was new on the job? Or who will charge you a bazillion Sky Pesos to fly from Minneapolis to Detroit?

Let's face it, it's not exactly an industry you'd want your kids to grow up to manage, now is it?
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