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  #1541  
Old July 28th, 2012, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MorganMars View Post
In the testimony of Silvia Coronika, http://www.quotidiano.net/file_gener...a-coronika.pdf he states (translated from page 5):

The Port Authority of Civitavecchia asked specifically whether there were any problems on board and the captain ordered Officer in charge of radio, Canessa Simone, to report that there was a blackout on board.
Thanks for this MM. Yes, I went to page 5 and that's exactly what Silvia Coronika said. So that was the voice of Simone Canessa, who was ordered to lie to the Coast Guard.

Not that it matters but I believe the third officer, Silvia Coronika or Coronica, is a woman.
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  #1542  
Old July 28th, 2012, 02:05 PM
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CT ... I think that at the time the coastguard spoke to a person/s on the bridge they would have been dealing with a Blackout and that is what they were told, however where it falls down is that there appears to be no later call to the ship from the coastguard asking for an update on the situation! and the much later one was the much published arguement between the Coastguard and the Captain.
At the time the Coast Guard spoke to Simone Canessa, it was well known to everyone on the bridge that they had hit a rock and water was gushing in.

Quote:
The Concordia crewman speaking with the Coast Guard was the ship’s navigation officer, a 26-year-old Italian named Simone Canessa. “The Captain ordered … Canessa to say that there was a blackout on board,” third mate Silvia Coronica later told prosecutors. “When asked if we needed assistance, he said, ‘At the moment, no.’ ” The first mate, Ciro Ambrosio, who was also on the bridge, confirmed to investigators that Schettino was fully aware that a blackout was the least of their problems. “The captain ordered us to say that everything was under control and that we were checking the damage, even though he knew that the ship was taking on water.”

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It is easy for a Historian to make a statement on an issue that happened 100 years ago! at best its a guess.
That was several historians -- not just one -- and that is true for all statements made regarding the binoculars.
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  #1543  
Old July 28th, 2012, 02:46 PM
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You are correct, of course. I had forgotten that. She is also one of the people who swam to shore. There is a photo of her here: http://www.la****one.it/grosseto/cro...te-nuovi.shtml

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Not that it matters but I believe the third officer, Silvia Coronika or Coronica, is a woman.
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  #1544  
Old July 28th, 2012, 02:59 PM
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You are correct, of course. I had forgotten that. She is also one of the people who swam to shore. There is a photo of her here: http://www.la****one.it/grosseto/cro...te-nuovi.shtml
That's her. Here she is:
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  #1545  
Old July 28th, 2012, 03:32 PM
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It is also worth noting that the Vanity Fair article, http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/20...-scandal-italy , identifies Simone Canessa as the ship's officer that worked with Mayor Pellegrini in the rescue of the passengers left stranded on the port side of the ship.
According to Mario Pellegrini, who was mired in the chaos above, two crewmen worked with him to supervise the aborning escape attempt: the doctor, Sandro Cinquini, and especially young Simone Canessa, the same officer who earlier in the evening told the Coast Guard the ship had suffered only a blackout. Canessa’s role in the evacuation has not been mentioned publicly; yet according to Pellegrini, he was the single most effective crewman still working to evacuate the ship during the long night’s most harrowing hours.
“When I got up there and saw Simone, he was the boss, he was the only one up there really helping,” says Pellegrini. “When he realized I was there to help, he saw we could work together. He was fantastic. Simone, I think, created this whole escape route. He was at the top. I did my best to help him.”
“I am not a hero: I did my job,” Canessa told VANITY FAIR in a brief telephone interview. “I did everything I could to save everyone I could.”
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Originally Posted by cruiserfanfromct View Post
So that was the voice of Simone Canessa, who was ordered to lie to the Coast Guard.
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  #1546  
Old July 28th, 2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MorganMars View Post
It is also worth noting that the Vanity Fair article, http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/20...-scandal-italy , identifies Simone Canessa as the ship's officer that worked with Mayor Pellegrini in the rescue of the passengers left stranded on the port side of the ship.
According to Mario Pellegrini, who was mired in the chaos above, two crewmen worked with him to supervise the aborning escape attempt: the doctor, Sandro Cinquini, and especially young Simone Canessa, the same officer who earlier in the evening told the Coast Guard the ship had suffered only a blackout. Canessa’s role in the evacuation has not been mentioned publicly; yet according to Pellegrini, he was the single most effective crewman still working to evacuate the ship during the long night’s most harrowing hours.
“When I got up there and saw Simone, he was the boss, he was the only one up there really helping,” says Pellegrini. “When he realized I was there to help, he saw we could work together. He was fantastic. Simone, I think, created this whole escape route. He was at the top. I did my best to help him.”
“I am not a hero: I did my job,” Canessa told VANITY FAIR in a brief telephone interview. “I did everything I could to save everyone I could.”
Thanks for this info MM. Do you remember what exactly happened with the anchors? Did Schettino order them to be dropped and if so, when? Did this help or hinder the evacuation process?

I read there is a video out there by the Guardia di Finanza who arrived onsite 10 minutes after the disaster and shows that the anchor had not been lowered at that point. Do you know anything about this? Thanks.
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  #1547  
Old July 28th, 2012, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cruiserfanfromct View Post
Thanks for this MM. Yes, I went to page 5 and that's exactly what Silvia Coronika said. So that was the voice of Simone Canessa, who was ordered to lie to the Coast Guard.

Not that it matters but I believe the third officer, Silvia Coronika or Coronica, is a woman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorganMars View Post
You are correct, of course. I had forgotten that. She is also one of the people who swam to shore. There is a photo of her here: http://www.la****one.it/grosseto/cro...te-nuovi.shtml
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruiserfanfromct View Post
That's her. Here she is:

Why don't you get some real proof. Your just going by news reports.

How do you know Sylvia Coronica was the 3rd officer?

For that matter, was voice on the radio a male with a high pitched Alto voice?

How do you know that photo is really Sylvia Coronica?

Could it be a Giglio islander who was on the pier with her boyfriend for a secluded tryst at the time?

In fact, how do you know for sure it's even a female?

You shouldn't be posting personal theories as facts until a judge and jury have evaluated some real proof.
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  #1548  
Old July 28th, 2012, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Uniall View Post
Why don't you get some real proof. Your just going by news reports.

How do you know Sylvia Coronica was the 3rd officer?

For that matter, was voice on the radio a male with a high pitched Alto voice?

How do you know that photo is really Sylvia Coronica?

Could it be a Giglio islander who was on the pier with her boyfriend for a secluded tryst at the time?

In fact, how do you know for sure it's even a female?

You shouldn't be posting personal theories as facts until a judge and jury have evaluated some real proof.
...this is just one big conspiracy theory and Schettino is being unfairly scapegoated --- NOT!
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  #1549  
Old July 28th, 2012, 04:54 PM
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CFFC,

I followed discussions regarding the deployment of the anchors closely as initial reports showing the movement of the ship during the turn that resulted in the grounding on the starboard side was reminiscent of a maneuver that I had been trained to use in emergency situations. At some point though, I believe it was the release of the video of the bridge, I became convinced that the anchors were not dropped at an appropriate time to use them in such a maneuver.

In the opinion of Captain John Konrad, Schettino deployed the anchors during the grounding in order to help prevent the capsize but, by allowing too much chain to be released, that maneuver was ineffective. However, it may be that the chain brake on the ship was not operational without power. I must leave it to others who are more familiar with that machinery to enlighten us. A video of a chain brake failing can be found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_ZKprRgxLQ .

Regards,
MorganMars

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Originally Posted by cruiserfanfromct View Post
Thanks for this info MM. Do you remember what exactly happened with the anchors? Did Schettino order them to be dropped and if so, when? Did this help or hinder the evacuation process?

I read there is a video out there by the Guardia di Finanza who arrived onsite 10 minutes after the disaster and shows that the anchor had not been lowered at that point. Do you know anything about this? Thanks.
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  #1550  
Old July 28th, 2012, 07:05 PM
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Interesting video. If I'd been on that deck I would have run away terribly quickly and told everyone else around me to do the same... only once the chain had run out past the bitter end would I even think about getting back on that deck!

On a ship, it's the weight of chain on the seabed that anchors the ship in position, not the anchor itself. Once their is sufficient weight on the seabed, additional chain will increase the distance the ship can move.... it's as much art as science, a balance between how much slack chain their is, and weight of chain on seabed as too little chain will increase the risk of anchor drag.

VP
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  #1551  
Old July 28th, 2012, 07:36 PM
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VP,

I understand what you are saying about the chain. What I don't understand is Captain John Konrad's theory about using the anchors and a proper length of chain to prevent the capsize of the Concordia. It sounds as though, he is implying that the ship could have been careened. Is that possible with the Concordia and similar vessels?

Regards,
MorganMars

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Originally Posted by Vampire Parrot View Post
Interesting video. If I'd been on that deck I would have run away terribly quickly and told everyone else around me to do the same... only once the chain had run out past the bitter end would I even think about getting back on that deck!

On a ship, it's the weight of chain on the seabed that anchors the ship in position, not the anchor itself. Once their is sufficient weight on the seabed, additional chain will increase the distance the ship can move.... it's as much art as science, a balance between how much slack chain their is, and weight of chain on seabed as too little chain will increase the risk of anchor drag.

VP
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  #1552  
Old July 29th, 2012, 04:56 AM
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I understand what you are saying about the chain. What I don't understand is Captain John Konrad's theory about using the anchors and a proper length of chain to prevent the capsize of the Concordia. It sounds as though, he is implying that the ship could have been careened. Is that possible with the Concordia and similar vessels?
The hawsepipes (through which the anchor chains run through and which hold the anchor in place at sea) are close to the centreline of the ship, so the force to be applied from the anchor to the ship required to stop the ship capsizing would be huge as there is so much mechanical disadvantage. Perhaps the right length of chain would have prevented the capsize - personally, I doubt it.

Careening a flat-bottomed boat (which all modern ships are) would be extremely difficult. It would either stay upright or topple over onto it's side.

VP
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  #1553  
Old July 29th, 2012, 06:04 AM
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CT ... it is of no matter how many Historians put their name to the Titanic issue and the binoculars, after all they were not there and are merely hazarding a guess that they would not have helped without actual proof.

"In the opinion of Captain John Konrad, Schettino deployed the anchors during the grounding in order to help prevent the capsize but, by allowing too much chain to be released"

Morgan ... so many people have hung their coats on making a guess without waiting for the actual facts of how and when the Anchors were used.
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  #1554  
Old July 29th, 2012, 11:29 AM
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CT ... it is of no matter how many Historians put their name to the Titanic issue and the binoculars, after all they were not there and are merely hazarding a guess that they would not have helped without actual proof.
You're right Sid...there is no PROOF whether the binoculars would have prevented the Titanic from hitting an iceberg or not -- it goes both ways.

We do however have PROOF that 100 years later they did not help Captain Schettino, as captured from the bridge of the Concordia in the photo below :
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  #1555  
Old July 29th, 2012, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cruiserfanfromct View Post
You're right Sid...there is no PROOF whether the binoculars would have prevented the Titanic from hitting an iceberg or not -- it goes both ways.

We do however have PROOF that 100 years later they did not help Captain Schettino, as captured from the bridge of the Concordia in the photo below :

Here's a photo of what Captain Schitino is looking at:


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  #1556  
Old July 29th, 2012, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Vampire Parrot View Post
The hawsepipes (through which the anchor chains run through and which hold the anchor in place at sea) are close to the centreline of the ship, so the force to be applied from the anchor to the ship required to stop the ship capsizing would be huge as there is so much mechanical disadvantage. Perhaps the right length of chain would have prevented the capsize - personally, I doubt it.

Careening a flat-bottomed boat (which all modern ships are) would be extremely difficult. It would either stay upright or topple over onto it's side.

VP

I agree VP........the anchors could not have been used in this manner. In a emergency like this, the anchors could have been used to hold position, cause the vessel to spin around to maybe better position her to provide a lay side to get the lifeboats away or to lay her againist the ocean bottom to keep her from capsizing/sinking.

There are many factors that would effect this maneuver.......the current, tide, wind force and direction, and the shape and depth of the bottom.

AKK
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  #1557  
Old July 29th, 2012, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Uniall View Post
Here's a photo of what Captain Schitino is looking at:



A nice view!


I am lol here looking at the bridge photo.............8 other Officers visible and the Captain........My merchant ships had the Duty Officer, a quarter master and the look out forward, at night...that it! Ho add the Captain if he was on the bridge!


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  #1558  
Old July 29th, 2012, 01:22 PM
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At least Captain Schettino has got his glasses on the the photo! ....
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  #1559  
Old July 29th, 2012, 01:47 PM
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At least Captain Schettino has got his glasses on the the photo! ....
How do you say "Dominca" in Italian?
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Completed Cruises
Jan '89 Premier pre Disney Oceanic, Baham; May '95 Regal Empress, Mex; Apr '96 Regal Empress, Carib; Jan '06 RCI Radiance of Seas, West Carib; Aug '06 NCL Sun, Alas; Oct '07 NCL Pride of Aloha Hawaii; Feb '08 HAL Westerdam, Irish Theme, Carib; Nov '08 NCL Jade, Med.; Apr '09 NCL Jewel, TA, Miami/Dover; May '09 NCL Jewel, Dover/Baltic; Oct '09 NCL Jewel, New Eng & Can; Nov '09 NCL Jewel, South Carib; Nov '09 NCL Jewel, Baham; Apr '10 NCL Spirit, NOLA/Boston; Sep '10 NCL Pearl, Vanc'ver, Can./LA; Sep '10 NCL Pearl, LA/Pan Canal/Miami; Oct '10 NCL Pearl, Baham; Oct '10 NCL Pearl, West Carib; May '11 NCL Epic, TA, Miami/Barcelona; Oct '11 NCL Jade: Rome/Eastern Med/Rome; Oct '11 RCI Mariner: Rome/Eastern Med/TA/Carib/Galveston; Dec '11 NCL Dawn, Miami/Carib; Apr '12 RCI Majesty, Miami/Carib; Apr '12 RCI Grandeur, Miami/Carib/ TA/Malaga, Spain; Oct '12 NCL Star, NYC/Carib/NOLA; Apr '13 NCL Star, NOLA/TA/Copenhagen; May '13 NCL Star, Copenhagen/Baltic/Copenhagen; Dec '13 NCL Gem, NYC/Carib/NYC; April/May '14 RCI Brilliance Tampa/TA/Harwich UK; May/Jun '14 RubyPrincess: Southampton/Irish & English Channels/Southampton;

Booked Future Cruises
Oct '14 NCL Sun, LA/Pan Canal/Tampa; Oct '14 NCL Sun, Tampa/Western Carib/Tampa; Apr '15 RCCL Radiance: Sydney, AUS/South Pacific/ Honolulu; May '15 RCCL Radiance: Honolulu/Hawaiian Isles/Vancouver, CAN; Oct '15:NCL Sun: SanDiego/Mex Riviera/San Diego; Nov '15 NCL Escape Miami Eastern Carib; Nov '15 RC Independence, Ft Laud/Southern Carib; Nov '15 RC Independence, Ft Laud/Westrn Carib
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  #1560  
Old July 29th, 2012, 04:13 PM
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sidari sidari is offline
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John .... no idea about that but I guess the anchor argument will go on to the bitter end!

Tonka ...... do you reckon the sacrificial annodes will have still done their job despite the ship listing over? Could the ship have listed like it has due to being holed in the ballast tanks?
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MSC Orchestra November 2014 Venice to Dubai
MSC Divina November 2013 T.A. Venice to Miami
MSC Opera June 2013 Southampton to Norway
MSC Poesia November 2012 T.A. Barcelona to Fort Lauderdale
Norwegian Jade April / May B2B 2012
Norwegian Jade February 2012
Costa Deliziosa December 2011
Mariner of the seas May 2011
Oasis of the seas October 2010
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Brilliance of the Seas June 2009
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