Cunard and P&O Change Mobility Scooter Policy

[BlueRiband]

Originally Posted by daiB

Mobility scooters are just that for the mobility of disabled persons. That is how the are sold and rented.

That may well be the case in the UK. My unscientific web search showed a leisure target customer. In the US there is no medical certification need to buy or rent a scooter unless the government or an insurance company is expected to pay for it.

.. All disabled cruisers are being affected as scooter users who do not need an adapted cabin will be forced to book one therefore there will be far fewer cabins available.

No argument with that one. As things go in life inconsideration by a few lead to inconvenience for the many.

In another forum this past week somebody posted that another line doesn't allow them at all! (I was curious as to want on earth was an "electric buggy".) Apparently their ships are older and maneuvering them encounters serious clearance problems.

[balf]

This may be a technical question, but where does the power come from if the engine room is flooded. Is there a power generator on higher decks? And which lift is the one that remains in operation. I can imagine a scooter or scooters trying to move against the flow of panicking passengers going the other way.

Also I think that as with so many other "rules" all the cruise lines have not been too strict in their application.

Sadly, another similar Concordia disaster on a Cunard ship would leave many disabled passengers in some considerable danger ( I don't think there were many scooters aboard that vessel,)

David.

[BlueRiband]

New 2012 ADA rules in the States have a section that applies to passenger vessels operating into US ports. The details can be found here: PART 39—TRANSPORTATION FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES: PASSENGER VESSELS

The important points are:

* An accessible cabin has to be made available at the same price as the requested category.

* They may ask a person using a "power-driven mobility device to provide a credible assurance that the mobility device is required because of the person's disability...."

* Restrictions imposed "on the use of another powered mobility device on your vessel must be limited to the minimum necessary to meet a legitimate safety requirement. For example, if a device can be accommodated in some spaces of the vessel but not others because of a legitimate safety requirement, you could not completely exclude the device from the vessel."

A lot of things were re-evaluated after the Concordia sinking, especially since that ship took on a severe list so quickly. The scooter situation had been ignored. But now that passengers are being told to keep them in their cabins there are probably scores of complaints that it's too crowded in there with a scooter.

[Jimsgirl]

Seen on QV Feb 28-Mch16,

Wheelchairs and scooters in hall ways ( cbin door had "do not disturb" sign out so assume (is one allowed to assume ?) that the owners were inside room.

Passengers going into Britannia for DINNER wearing shorts and tee shirts on a Formal night, (only 3 couples ahead of myself) and those staff on the door simply looked the other way. Another Formal night a couple came in wearing Jeans and T shirts and same thing happened. Yes I did ask Head Honcho "why" he claimed " They were looking for friends to give them a message"

Did you know that Elvis and Marylin Munro are alive and well? What you do not believe that ?. Well I do not believe the "wanting to give friends a message " either.

[Jimsgirl]

Before the flaming starts, I do have a mobility problem myself, since I have a compulsive need to be "independent", 15 mins before the "muster, I collected my life jacket from the cabin, went to the stairs on deck 6, and hanging on to the banister carefully both feet on one step and staying to the extreme right made my way down to deck 3 to the Queens room (my muster point). Just to prove to myself- if no one else- that if the need arose I could "do it".

[Pies4u]

Sadly, far too many folks are now using mobility scooters as a convenience. Just look at any airport, they get priority treatment then they are skipping around in resorts like Derby winners. I've never encountered many on board ship but on some lines, I'm told, it is an increasing problem.

The issue is that genuinely disabled people could lose out if designated cabins are occupied by people who, to quote some on here, "want to save their legs for dancing" and/or simply can't be bothered to walk a few hundred yards.

The laudable post{s} from Jimsgirl do at least indicate that people can be reasonable about the matter.

[BlueRiband]

Originally Posted by Pies4u

...The issue is that genuinely disabled people could lose out if designated cabins are occupied by people who, to quote some on here, "want to save their legs for dancing" and/or simply can't be bothered to walk a few hundred yards...

The ADA rules supposedly state that cruise lines can ask if somebody who reserves a handicap cabin needs the special facilities. They can't ask the specific nature of the disability but can require one to produce a state-issued parking placard. (In the States, this allows one to legally park a car in one of the reserved "handicap" spaces in parking lots and garages.) If they show up and can't produce it they can be denied boarding.

Unfortunately, even if the miscreants get denied boarding, that wouldn't happen until embarkation day. By then the cabin would have long been removed from inventory.

[moniquet]

Originally Posted by Pies4u

Sadly, far too many folks are now using mobility scooters as a convenience. Just look at any airport, they get priority treatment then they are skipping around in resorts like Derby winners. I've never encountered many on board ship but on some lines, I'm told, it is an increasing problem.

The issue is that genuinely disabled people could lose out if designated cabins are occupied by people who, to quote some on here, "want to save their legs for dancing" and/or simply can't be bothered to walk a few hundred yards.

The laudable post{s} from Jimsgirl do at least indicate that people can be reasonable about the matter.

I was the one who said "save legs for dancing" I presume you can understand the wink at the end. Although I am sure you are correct and there is lots of abuse.

[Pies4u]

Sure - nothing personal, just emphasising the point.

[donaldsc]

It is about time for this policy if it as actually enforced.

DON

[Paul&Kathy]

We also got the letter from Cunard and were rather upset. First of all let me say that I thoroughly agree that nothing should ever be left in the hallway - no problem with that rule and I wish it were enforced more strictly.

But my husband uses a Luggie, it is a small folding scooter that fits easily through a standard cabin door and when folded up either slides under the bed or stands in the wardrobe. I shall measure it, but I think its dimensions when folded up are probably smaller than those of a folding wheelchair, it is certainly much smaller than most suitcases. We have never ever left it in the hallway and never would (both so as not to cause a nuisance and also so as not to lose it to a joyrider as it is keyless !). We have to book last minute due to his medical condition and there is almost never a disabled cabin available which is fine, we are happy to be cruising at all and can manage a standard cabin and would rather leave them for somebody whose need is greater than ours. But now Cunard will refuse us boarding with no refund if we arrive with the scooter ? I am going to write to Cunard and tell them how discriminatory this policy is but in practical terms it just means they (and P&O apparently) will be crossed off our list of lines when looking for a cruise.

On our last Cunard cruise the ship had norovirus and was moved to a different embarkation port so we were about 12 hours late boarding, hugely inconvenienced and we were not even given a glass of water, Cunard could not even be bothered to send an email to tell us so that we could at least adjust medication, but now they can write to tell us we are no longer welcome on their ships with his scooter, that I honestly don't think inconveniences anyone (except me). Sorry, there is smoke coming out of my ears !!

[3rdGenCunarder]

Originally Posted by Paul&Kathy

We also got the letter from Cunard and were rather upset. First of all let me say that I thoroughly agree that nothing should ever be left in the hallway - no problem with that rule and I wish it were enforced more strictly.

But my husband uses a Luggie, it is a small folding scooter that fits easily through a standard cabin door and when folded up either slides under the bed or stands in the wardrobe. I shall measure it, but I think its dimensions when folded up are probably smaller than those of a folding wheelchair, it is certainly much smaller than most suitcases. We have never ever left it in the hallway and never would (both so as not to cause a nuisance and also so as not to lose it to a joyrider as it is keyless !). We have to book last minute due to his medical condition and there is almost never a disabled cabin available which is fine, we are happy to be cruising at all and can manage a standard cabin and would rather leave them for somebody whose need is greater than ours. But now Cunard will refuse us boarding with no refund if we arrive with the scooter ? I am going to write to Cunard and tell them how discriminatory this policy is but in practical terms it just means they (and P&O apparently) will be crossed off our list of lines when looking for a cruise.

On our last Cunard cruise the ship had norovirus and was moved to a different embarkation port so we were about 12 hours late boarding, hugely inconvenienced and we were not even given a glass of water, Cunard could not even be bothered to send an email to tell us so that we could at least adjust medication, but now they can write to tell us we are no longer welcome on their ships with his scooter, that I honestly don't think inconveniences anyone (except me). Sorry, there is smoke coming out of my ears !!

Before you write them an angry letter (and I do understand why you're angry), write to them and why they have made this rule, and why it should apply to you, since your husband's scooter is so manageable and does not need a large parking space. And please report back on their answer. I'm sure there are plenty of other people reading this thread who are in a similar situation and are rethinking how they plan for a cruise.

If they're using this as a back-door way to limit the number of scooters on board, they won't admit it. But I hope they give you some sort of explanation.'

[Cruachan]

Originally Posted by Paul&Kathy

We also got the letter from Cunard and were rather upset. First of all let me say that I thoroughly agree that nothing should ever be left in the hallway - no problem with that rule and I wish it were enforced more strictly.

But my husband uses a Luggie, it is a small folding scooter that fits easily through a standard cabin door and when folded up either slides under the bed or stands in the wardrobe. I shall measure it, but I think its dimensions when folded up are probably smaller than those of a folding wheelchair, it is certainly much smaller than most suitcases. We have never ever left it in the hallway and never would (both so as not to cause a nuisance and also so as not to lose it to a joyrider as it is keyless !). We have to book last minute due to his medical condition and there is almost never a disabled cabin available which is fine, we are happy to be cruising at all and can manage a standard cabin and would rather leave them for somebody whose need is greater than ours. But now Cunard will refuse us boarding with no refund if we arrive with the scooter ? I am going to write to Cunard and tell them how discriminatory this policy is but in practical terms it just means they (and P&O apparently) will be crossed off our list of lines when looking for a cruise.

On our last Cunard cruise the ship had norovirus and was moved to a different embarkation port so we were about 12 hours late boarding, hugely inconvenienced and we were not even given a glass of water, Cunard could not even be bothered to send an email to tell us so that we could at least adjust medication, but now they can write to tell us we are no longer welcome on their ships with his scooter, that I honestly don't think inconveniences anyone (except me). Sorry, there is smoke coming out of my ears !!

We are in exactly the same position. We specifically purchased a small scooter that strips down into its main component parts so that it can be easily stored in the cabin. It's actually small enough to be driven quite easily into a standard balcony cabin and I devised a way of parking it up that doesn't restrict our movement around the cabin but means that we don't have to spend too much time taking it to bits and reassembling it again. Like you, we do not leave it parked in the corridor.

I suspect that these draconian restrictions may well spell the end of our cuising "career".

Please let me know if you get any meaningful response from Cunard. I am considering writing to them myself.

J

[BlueRiband]

Originally Posted by Paul&Kathy

.. First of all let me say that I thoroughly agree that nothing should ever be left in the hallway - no problem with that rule and I wish it were enforced more strictly...

That's propably what prompted the requirement to book ADA rooms. In the wake of the Concordia sinking the rule was being enforced more stringently but passengers complained, "There's no room in here for that!"

The cruise lines are in a loose-loose situation on this one. What do they do? A scooter-using passenger can book a "regular" stateroom only if the scooter is a Model X, Y, Z, etc.?

[capnpugwash]

Originally Posted by mariepr

That's propably what prompted the requirement to book ADA rooms. In the wake of the Concordia sinking the rule was being enforced more stringently but passengers complained, "There's no room in here for that!"

The cruise lines are in a loose-loose situation on this one. What do they do? A scooter-using passenger can book a "regular" stateroom only if the scooter is a Model X, Y, Z, etc.?

No but they could mandate that the scooter must be easily dismantled and have dimensions less than x by x by x. This would be quite simple to enforce and would be a fair resolution for all concerned. Their requirement seems very unfair to me in its current form.

[Cruachan]

Originally Posted by mariepr

That's propably what prompted the requirement to book ADA rooms. In the wake of the Concordia sinking the rule was being enforced more stringently but passengers complained, "There's no room in here for that!"

The cruise lines are in a loose-loose situation on this one. What do they do? A scooter-using passenger can book a "regular" stateroom only if the scooter is a Model X, Y, Z, etc.?

I don't think it needs to be that complicated. We already have to fill in quite an extensive form detailing mobility and other medical requirements. The form requires us to give the leading dimensions of any wheelchair/scooter or other mobility aid (including those collapsible, wheeled walkers that people take), as well as requirements for oxygen, medical sharps, powered monitoring equipment etc etc etc. I'm sure it would be a relatively simple thing to get passengers to certify that their particular scooter is capable of disassembly and storage in the cabin at all times when not in use. If they can't certify that, then they could be required to book a wheelchair accessible cabin. I think that the "one size fits all" policy is, as has been said, somewhat discriminatory and I believe that it unfairly punishes people who genuinely require these mobility aids and who have gone out of their way already to ensure that any safety hazards and/or inconvenience to others is minimised.

J

[Cruachan]

Originally Posted by capnpugwash

No but they could mandate that the scooter must be easily dismantled and have dimensions less than x by x by x. This would be quite simple to enforce and would be a fair resolution for all concerned. Their requirement seems very unfair to me in its current form.

ROFL!

Very concisely put Cap'n. You got that one in while Mr Prolixity here was composing the 300 word essay that came next and said exactly the same thing.

J

[Cruachan]

Originally Posted by capnpugwash

No but they could mandate that the scooter must be easily dismantled and have dimensions less than x by x by x. This would be quite simple to enforce and would be a fair resolution for all concerned. Their requirement seems very unfair to me in its current form.

It also occurs to me that this new policy of insisting that everyone who intends to bring a mobility scooter must book a wheelchair accessible cabin will almost certainly result in the "law of unintended consequences" coming into play. People who, in the past, would happily have brought their scooters along and stored them in their cabin (or, of course, illegally left them in the corridors), will now have to "compete" for adapted cabins with wheelchair users for whom those cabins are absolutely essential. There can only be one group of losers in that particular game.

J

[Paul&Kathy]

I can't find an email for Nick BUrrows at Cunard but have written a letter basically a shortened version of my post and asking the reasons for the new policy, will send it snail mail tomorrow and report if/when I get a reply. I would encourage anyone else affected to write too - the more letters the more chance they will realise their mistake.

[capnpugwash]

Originally Posted by Paul&Kathy

I can't find an email for Nick BUrrows at Cunard but have written a letter basically a shortened version of my post and asking the reasons for the new policy, will send it snail mail tomorrow and report if/when I get a reply. I would encourage anyone else affected to write too - the more letters the more chance they will realise their mistake.

Nice idea, when you write I suggest that you remind them that they currently run three ships. I'm not convinced that they are aware of that fact.