What has happened to the Disney company

[Tonka's Skipper]

Originally Posted by BaronVonIggy

I had said something about spending time with great people from England, Germany and Hungry on a Carnival ship. Then someone said you mean the drunks chair hogs and porn stars. That is an attack or the so called typical American traveling.

I get it most of you don't like Carnival, didn't like having to pay for a soda or you saw someone get drunk. My family has not ever had a problem with them and we have not seen most of the thing you speak of, now we have only been on 5 Carnival cruises and 2 Costa cruises. I think that's all of the Carnival corp cruises we have done. All of the stuff people are saying happens we have never seen.

That is why I think what I said in the first part of this post would be called an attack. I guy called one of my post intelligent that's all he had to say, and now what I post about line share and % you guys are all talking. I think hes even one of them talking about it.

OK Baron, I was refering to debate in reguard to discussing the shipslines......not personal attacks........ I have to admit on occassion.....I have been a been snearky too......

[Tonka's Skipper]

Originally Posted by S.S.Oceanlover

OK found the info. Carnival Corporations North American cruise lines, Carnival, Princess, Holland America sailed at a capacity of 106.2% in 2011, 105.6% in 2010, and 105.5% in 2009.

Also found out digging up this info Carnival cruise lines has 23 ships and 58,274 berths to fill on a weekly basis to achieve 100% capacity and Disney has 4 ships and 8508 berths to fill on a weekly basis to sail at 100%.

Bill

Bill, somthing in these figuires are screwy.......we both have sailed on ships that have not been 100%........even Disney does not sail all their ships, always at 100%........

I am not doubting your finding the figiures.I just think the figures are screwy!


AKK

[Gary from PA]

Originally Posted by S.S.Oceanlover View Post
OK found the info. Carnival Corporations North American cruise lines, Carnival, Princess, Holland America sailed at a capacity of 106.2% in 2011, 105.6% in 2010, and 105.5% in 2009.

Also found out digging up this info Carnival cruise lines has 23 ships and 58,274 berths to fill on a weekly basis to achieve 100% capacity and Disney has 4 ships and 8508 berths to fill on a weekly basis to sail at 100%.

Bill

This poster is a TROLL.

Him and the Baron Iggy and the eagle warrior are shills from Carnival Corporation.

Host Mick, please take note, they have come on the DCL board to piss DCL and shill for Carnival .

This thread needs to be removed.

The title "What has happened to the Disney company" is itself provocative and highly misleading and false.

[Maxiecat3]

Originally Posted by Gary from PA

This poster is a TROLL.

Him and the Baron Iggy and the eagle warrior are shills from Carnival Corporation.

Host Mick, please take note, they have come on the DCL board to piss DCL and shill for Carnival .

This thread needs to be removed.

The title "What has happened to the Disney company" is itself provocative and highly misleading and false.

You're kidding right. This poster has a very good knowledge of the cruise industry. The figures he quoted are directly off the 2011 Carnival finacial report (page 45 if you must know). He was just showing that Carnival, and possible others, do sail at or above 100% to refute the 63% stated in an earlier post.

Gregg

[karajeboo]

Originally Posted by Gary from PA

That is like comparing the rates of a high class escort and a street walker

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper

All those items the other lines miss the point of .........bottom line its the *the Disney Magic........Pixie Dust*.......if you dont get it..fine......disney is not for everyone...but becuase you may not get it.......doesn't mean it is not there. The number of people who are willing to pay more is another proof of why DCL is better.


AKK

This is it in a nutshell!!!!! It's also why some choose WDW over Busch Gardens, or Universal, etc....

Originally Posted by war_eagle99

Let's make a relevant comparison. The Inspiration is an old ship and like most of the older Carnival and RCL ships it tends to attract a more party like crowd.

Here's the breakdown for the three newer ships out of Port Canaveral in June sailing to the Eastern Caribbean. I'm listing the lowest prices per Yahoo travel for inside, outside and balcony. All 7 days cruises.

Carnival Dream - 649/849/999
RCL Freedom - 819/999/1329
Disney Fantasy - 1750/2009/1547

This is a great comparison! When I said earlier that people are not comparing apples to apples, someone came up with a crazy stat that was definitely not comparing apples to apples in ship quality. You can't compare the Disney Fantasy to the Carnival Glory, or RCI's older ships either. But this is a good comparison.

The reason Fantasy inside rooms are so high is the virtual porthole, so they actually feel like porthole rooms..... Again, if people are willing to pay it and the ships are full, who are we to fault Disney for that? I'm sure the other lines are scratching their heads trying to figure out how to fill THEIR ships like that!

In response to the "drunks" comments, I have only sailed DCL, but will sail RCI in March. I've also only sailed 7 night cruises, but will sail a 4 ight DCL on Sunday, but my question is to those who HAVE sailed different ships, different lines, different cruise lengths..... Aren't the "party cruises" the 3 and 4 night cruises, typically that fall over a weekend, that are perfect for bachelorette parties, singles cruises, etc? Easily affordable to a group of college kidgs, or a bunch of singles, etc. It would be hard for me to get a group of friends to go on a $1000 7 night cruise on a new ship, but I could easily get us all on a 3 night "booze cruise" if we so desired.

So that's why I'm not worred at all about our upcoming Freedom of the Seas cruise - it's not Disney, it won't have the pixie dust, but I'm sure it will be clean, friendly, and mostly drunk free... lol

People just need to chill out..... yes DCL is GREAT! But it's not the be all end all and we need to realize that to each his own....

[Gary from PA]

You're kidding right. This poster has a very good knowledge of the cruise industry. The figures he quoted are directly off the 2011 Carnival finacial report (page 45 if you must know). He was just showing that Carnival, and possible others, do sail at or above 100% to refute the 63% stated in an earlier post.

You just proved my point that he is a Carnival insider also known as a "shill"

[Maxiecat3]

Originally Posted by Gary from PA

You just proved my point that he is a Carnival insider also known as a "shill"

Why, because he knows where to go to find out information to refute an obvious misinformed poster. In the meantime, I looked at the rest of this thread and from your cruise history you have only been on 1 cruise but seem to know the demographics of other cruise lines without ever being on one. So, if anything, I would consider you a Disney insider also known as a "shill".

Gregg

[Gary from PA]

Originally Posted by Maxiecat3

Why, because he knows where to go to find out information to refute an obvious misinformed poster. In the meantime, I looked at the rest of this thread and from your cruise history you have only been on 1 cruise but seem to know the demographics of other cruise lines without ever being on one. So, if anything, I would consider you a Disney insider also known as a "shill".

Gregg

I would also consider you as the partner in crime, as a Carnival shill

Attack as a team , ehh

[Tonka's Skipper]

Originally Posted by Maxiecat3

Why, because he knows where to go to find out information to refute an obvious misinformed poster. In the meantime, I looked at the rest of this thread and from your cruise history you have only been on 1 cruise but seem to know the demographics of other cruise lines without ever being on one. So, if anything, I would consider you a Disney insider also known as a "shill".

Gregg

hey there Gregg....

I am still not so sure I was wrong as I have seen that overall average 63% occupensy figure noted in various places.

I posted above that the 100% full ships seems screwy becuase I have never been on any ship...including DCL cruises, where the ship was at 100% or had all the cabins in use.......its just doesnit make sense to say all ship a average 100% +.

This also was report at the Criuse industry convention in Febuary where MA of Carnival Corporation was talking about how most lines had taken a 12% downturn in bookings and Costa, of Course was down 35%.

I don't doubt Bill (oceanlover) found those figures, but as written they don't make any sense!

Now can you tell me in the last few years all or even most of your criuses have been full?.or even nearly full?..

Why 2008 have all the lines noted considerabelly lower oocupensy rates?.including DCL?


What I am trying to say here is something is off....srewy........etc?


AKK

[Tonka's Skipper]

Originally Posted by Gary from PA

I would also consider you as the partner in crime, as a Carnival shill

Attack as a team , ehh

Gary.....with all due respect...........maybe its time to back off....Just a thought..AKK.

[Maxiecat3]

Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper

hey there Gregg....

I am still not so sure I was wrong as I have seen that overall average 63% occupensy figure noted in various places.

I posted above that the 100% full ships seems screwy becuase I have never been on any ship...including DCL cruises, where the ship was at 100% or had all the cabins in use.......its just doesnit make sense to say all ship a average 100% +.

This also was report at the Criuse industry convention in Febuary where MA of Carnival Corporation was talking about how most lines had taken a 12% downturn in bookings and Costa, of Course was down 35%.

I don't doubt Bill (oceanlover) found those figures, but as written they don't make any sense!

Now can you tell me in the last few years all or even most of your criuses have been full?.or even nearly full?..

Why 2008 have all the lines noted considerabelly lower oocupensy rates?.including DCL?


What I am trying to say here is something is off....srewy........etc?


AKK

Hello AKK,

Would you have any links to the reports of the 63% figures, as the 106% for Carnival came off of their annual report. Of my 3 cruises I would say the only one that wasn't almost if not completely at capacity was the Liberty OTS, which was it's inaugural cruise. Sometimes the cruise lines do not book fully on inaugurals so the bugs can be worked out without a full passenger load. I would guess about 80-85%.

Also, do you know how the percentages are arrived at? A lot of people, not necessarily you, in the past wondered how the percentage can be more than 100%. The percentage is based on double occupancy. As an example, I believe the Fantasy has a DO of 2,500 with a maximum of 4,000. If it sails with 3,000 passengers, the occupancy rate would be at 120%. If you were aware of this I apoligize, but other people might not be aware.

Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper

Gary.....with all due respect...........maybe its time to back off....Just a thought..AKK.

Thanks for this. As I have never been, and might never be on a Carnival cruise, I don't understand his rudeness. My DB, SIL and 2 small children (4 & 2) have been on 3 Disney cruises and are DVC members. My children are 25 & 22 so RCCL suits our needs better, but anytime they come down to WDW we do our best to meet them there to spend a day with them and the young-uns.

Gregg

[Tonka's Skipper]

Originally Posted by Maxiecat3

Hello AKK,

Would you have any links to the reports of the 63% figures, as the 106% for Carnival came off of their annual report. Of my 3 cruises I would say the only one that wasn't almost if not completely at capacity was the Liberty OTS, which was it's inaugural cruise. Sometimes the cruise lines do not book fully on inaugurals so the bugs can be worked out without a full passenger load. I would guess about 80-85%.

Also, do you know how the percentages are arrived at? A lot of people, not necessarily you, in the past wondered how the percentage can be more than 100%. The percentage is based on double occupancy. As an example, I believe the Fantasy has a DO of 2,500 with a maximum of 4,000. If it sails with 3,000 passengers, the occupancy rate would be at 120%. If you were aware of this I apoligize, but other people might not be aware.



Thanks for this. As I have never been, and might never be on a Carnival cruise, I don't understand his rudeness. My DB, SIL and 2 small children (4 & 2) have been on 3 Disney cruises and are DVC members. My children are 25 & 22 so RCCL suits our needs better, but anytime they come down to WDW we do our best to meet them there to spend a day with them and the young-uns.

Gregg

See Gregg,you gave me a education. I did indeed not know how those figuires were arrived at and now they make more sense. Thanks for your help.

Now....over time I have been told that DCL ship average 85% full.....which for the Fantasy with a 4000 capacity would be about 3400 passingers.

I only remember the report from the Cruise industry converence......and earlier reports of those 85% and 63% figuires.

My real point was to show DCL ship were generally sailing fuller then most lines.....even at the higher price, showing people will pay for the better (and specailized) cruise.

Don't you love how staticies can be made to show what you want!

My issue with this post really was the title.it was inviting a arguement. I have found on these forums that people have their favoratie lines and get very passionate about them, as I am about DCL and Disney in general, Walt is a personal hero to this old ex deep water sailor!

I maybe wrong, but I do find some people love to put down DCL and the only thing they can point to is the price, which has been noted on various boards is not always true, depending on the time of year and vessels.

I have no problems with RCL,Princess, Celebrity, etc, but I must admit my opinion is based on the boards and my industry reading......I dont care for the NCL operation especailly the Dining, from friends who have.

I do have a problem with Carnival line and the drinking, party crowd...just not for us. 2 short cruises of being woken at 0200 did that.

I also feel Carnival Corporation has some real operational and policy issue on how they run some of the lines both on the vessels and in the offices.....they have had way to many casulities over the last 2-3 years. This includes the Splender, Allegre, and QM2 fires, the Concordia, and the still in question Star princess not stopping to pick up that fisherman.

What I am hearing from Maritime friends, reading and my sea time, something is really wrong in Carnival Corp.


No problem over the 2nd post..I have been known to get snearky now and then.......but this is starting to go way past the line.

Beside us DVC (93) owners need to stand up for eachother..LOL..

I am hoping to talk my wife into a NYC/Bermuda trip on RCCL next year..but shes a stronger DCL fan then I am!


AKK

[war_eagle99]

Ok - here is how the occupancy rate works and why a cruise can be over 100% yet still have available cabins. The number is based on double occupancy and those rooms with 3 or more booked count more than 100%.

Here is an example based on a 10 room cruise ship for simplicity sake:

If 8 out of 10 rooms are sold the ship sails with 80% of its rooms filled... but if 6 of those 8 rooms have 3 people in them and the other two rooms have 2 that gives you a total of 22 cruise passengers. Based on double occupancy the cruise is considered 100% full as soon as 20 passengers are booked (10 rooms x2). That means the ship in this example is sailing at 110% capacity (22/20) even though rooms are available.

[Gary from PA]

Originally Posted by war_eagle99

If 8 out of 10 rooms are sold the ship sails with 80% of its rooms filled... but if 6 of those 8 rooms have 3 people in them and the other two rooms have 2 that gives you a total of 22 cruise passengers. Based on double occupancy the cruise is considered 100% full as soon as 20 passengers are booked (10 rooms x2). That means the ship in this example is sailing at 110% capacity (22/20) even though rooms are available.

Great way to fool the public

[Tonka's Skipper]

Originally Posted by war_eagle99

Ok - here is how the occupancy rate works and why a cruise can be over 100% yet still have available cabins. The number is based on double occupancy and those rooms with 3 or more booked count more than 100%.

Here is an example based on a 10 room cruise ship for simplicity sake:

If 8 out of 10 rooms are sold the ship sails with 80% of its rooms filled... but if 6 of those 8 rooms have 3 people in them and the other two rooms have 2 that gives you a total of 22 cruise passengers. Based on double occupancy the cruise is considered 100% full as soon as 20 passengers are booked (10 rooms x2). That means the ship in this example is sailing at 110% capacity (22/20) even though rooms are available.

Thanks War eagle.....Maxiecat explained the same thing...now I understand the difference, as the 85% and 63% figiures I had read about are likely just raw....% ....based on totall capacity.

see I like to learn something everyday.

AKK

[Maxiecat3]

Originally Posted by war_eagle99

Ok - here is how the occupancy rate works and why a cruise can be over 100% yet still have available cabins. The number is based on double occupancy and those rooms with 3 or more booked count more than 100%.

Here is an example based on a 10 room cruise ship for simplicity sake:

If 8 out of 10 rooms are sold the ship sails with 80% of its rooms filled... but if 6 of those 8 rooms have 3 people in them and the other two rooms have 2 that gives you a total of 22 cruise passengers. Based on double occupancy the cruise is considered 100% full as soon as 20 passengers are booked (10 rooms x2). That means the ship in this example is sailing at 110% capacity (22/20) even though rooms are available.

Originally Posted by Gary from PA

Great way to fool the public

Actually, Disney should jump at the chance "to fool the public" as you state. Because Disney is more family oriented than probably any other cruise line out there, they have a higher percentage of cabins that will hold more than 2 people. Examples:
Fantasy: DO 2,500 Max capacity 4,000 If sailing completely full would have a capacity number of 160%
RCCI Oasis OTS: DO 5,408 Max capacity 6,300 Full sailing 116%
RCCI Liberty OTS: DO 3,634 Max capacity 4,375 Full sailing 120%

Disney should be using these number to their advantage.

Gregg

[Host Mick]

Originally Posted by Gary from PA

This poster is a TROLL.

Him and the Baron Iggy and the eagle warrior are shills from Carnival Corporation.

Host Mick, please take note, they have come on the DCL board to piss DCL and shill for Carnival .

This thread needs to be removed.

The title "What has happened to the Disney company" is itself provocative and highly misleading and false.

There's nothing in the Guidelines prohibiting members from shilling for their favorite cruise lines nor dissing on others. We're not here to defend the honor of any cruise lines.
The rules prohibiting attacks on other members are still in full force.

[Host Mick]

While this has been an interesting thread, folks here need to cool off.

I'm giving this thread a time out, 12 or 24 hours of whenever I remember to unlock it.

[e2011]

Originally Posted by war_eagle99

Having just returned from a cruise on the Dream I am in complete agreement. I'm going to be posting a more detailed post comparing Disney to other cruise lines at some point this week.

We like to cruise on different lines to see what they all have to offer so I feel like I can make some relevant comparisons and in my opinion they are indeed way overpriced. I look forward to the spirited debate/flaming some of the Disney fanatics will be sure to offer.

No debate from me. Beauty (and cost) is in the eye of the beholder....

[e2011]

I can see that many of the people on this board have the "my opinion is the right one!" attitude. They are wrong. What is interesting is when it breaks down into personal attacks. Many folks on here have no idea how to properly debate! How sad for our society that when someone doesn't agree they turn to personal attacks since they cannot defend their position. I say kick em...