Adoption paperwork snafu nearly ruins family's cruise

[wagzz21]

Originally Posted by CeleBrat

I was able to take a look at the blog yesterday, before it got locked. It was an extended family trip (their family, their parents, another sibling with their kids), so it would've been a bigger deal for the family to miss the trip, rather than just the newly-adopted son.

I'm probably going to get bashed for this, but here goes:

We just finalized the adoption of our son last week. He will be 6 months NEXT week, and we have never ever been one day away from him (we were there at his birth). There is something incredibly special about the birth/raising of ANY child... but from personal experience, I can state with certainty that, when you adopt a child, you go through an enormously difficult and sometimes long and painful journey to parenthood and the one thing most important to you in the world is BEING parents to a child (or children). There is not one single part of me that can understand going through all of that to become a parent to a child, looking forward to bringing that child on his/her first vacation, and then "dumping" the child with ANYONE - whether known to the child or not - so that we could continue on a vacation without him, other family going or not.. I would have not thought twice to say, "I'm sorry. I guess we're going to miss this one..." and taken the hit on the money. If I were concerned about my other child being bummed, I would have maybe found a family member GOING on the trip who was willing to take that child with them, OR, as one poster mentioned, changing plans and doing something land-based as a newly complete family. I would NEVER have left my newly adopted child behind...

[Onessa]

I've never left my DD (now 16YO) with someone else so I could vacation. She's did the occassional overnight with gma/gpa and before they passed away, we regularly invited/took them with us and they were kind enough to babysit so DH and I could do some more "adult" type activities. DD liked going to the kids programs when she was a kid and that was pleanty of time for DH and I to take in a show or dance or whatever. As she has gotten older, she's done camps and other stuff -- so it is not like she can't be away from us.

But I do have friends who do it all the time (BFF and her DH have taken the week of their anniversary off "alone" every year since they were married - their kids now have kids and appear no worse for the wear; my co-worker and her husband left their 3MO with his parents for a week-and-a-half to go to one of those beach island places) I cannot pretend to understand, but it is their "thing". Another co-worker announces in front of her two kids that she and her DH have to "get away from the kids" -- THAT I find disturbing, it is one thing to go off to re-connect, it is another to tell your kids that you want to go away because of them!

My parents went off on vacations without my sister and I when I was young. Sometimes we'd get diviv'ed up between relatives, when sis was older, she'd be "in charge" (15YO and parents off in the Bahamas and you are home with your 8.5YO sister -- no fun for her, not much for me either). I volunteer a lot with kids stuff BBBS, GSA, other stuff -- and find that most kids do feel a bit confused and left out when their parents go off without them -- even if Gma or auntie or whomever is "fun to be with" you can see a real difference in most of them during these times. Some of the teachers will warn me when I do volunteer reading tutoring that a particular child's parents are in Hawaii and he's feeling a little low.

I'm sure some kids are fine with it, but IMHO childhood is way way way too short and I want to make my kid's childhood great, and I really cannot bear to miss any of it. But that is me, and my kid -- everyone really needs to do what is right for them and their kid(s), but yes what "works" for you may not for your kid (or vice versa) and I think when they are young, what works for them really needs to be a priority.

[Onessa]

[quote=wagzz21;33763503]. . . . There is not one single part of me that can understand going through all of that to become a parent to a child, looking forward to bringing that child on his/her first vacation, and then "dumping" the child with ANYONE - whether known to the child or not - so that we could continue on a vacation without him, other family going or not. . .[quote]
My mother had complications after my birth. As a consequence I came home and she was in the hospital for another 2+ weeks. My closest relatives either were working full-time (G'ma) or had newborns of their own, so a neighbor woman with five kids (from age 4 to 12) took me in for the first four weeks of my life.

It was a necessity but I still cannot imagine taking on a newborn! I have SO much respect for foster parents because this is a situation many of them choose to take on regularly.

[bus man]

Originally Posted by wagzz21

I'm probably going to get bashed for this, but here goes:

We just finalized the adoption of our son last week. He will be 6 months NEXT week, and we have never ever been one day away from him (we were there at his birth). There is something incredibly special about the birth/raising of ANY child... but from personal experience, I can state with certainty that, when you adopt a child, you go through an enormously difficult and sometimes long and painful journey to parenthood and the one thing most important to you in the world is BEING parents to a child (or children). There is not one single part of me that can understand going through all of that to become a parent to a child, looking forward to bringing that child on his/her first vacation, and then "dumping" the child with ANYONE - whether known to the child or not - so that we could continue on a vacation without him, other family going or not.. I would have not thought twice to say, "I'm sorry. I guess we're going to miss this one..." and taken the hit on the money. If I were concerned about my other child being bummed, I would have maybe found a family member GOING on the trip who was willing to take that child with them, OR, as one poster mentioned, changing plans and doing something land-based as a newly complete family. I would NEVER have left my newly adopted child behind...

No bashing from me. I understand your point of view and respect you for it.

However, I can also understand the POV of the family described in the original post. Maybe part of it was the money; we all can't just shrug off a loss of thousands of dollars, and this may well have been the only shot at a vacation that this family would have had for awhile.

But more than that, I can see them not wanting to disappoint their other child. Can you imagine the months-long buildup to the cruise, only to have to miss it at the last minute? Can you imagine the resentment that the other child might have felt? "That new baby made me miss my cruise!" Now obviously, it was the parents' fault, not the baby's; but I can easily see a child blaming the new addition for the missed trip.

I don't know this family, and I wasn't there, so anything I say is speculation only. But it's entirely possible that they decided that it would be better for long-term inter-sibling harmony if they went ahead with the cruise.

In any case, the parents made the best decision FOR THEM. And that's what parents do: make the best decisions for themselves, their children, and their family as a whole.

[wagzz21]

Originally Posted by bus man

No bashing from me. I understand your point of view and respect you for it.

However, I can also understand the POV of the family described in the original post. Maybe part of it was the money; we all can't just shrug off a loss of thousands of dollars, and this may well have been the only shot at a vacation that this family would have had for awhile.

But more than that, I can see them not wanting to disappoint their other child. Can you imagine the months-long buildup to the cruise, only to have to miss it at the last minute? Can you imagine the resentment that the other child might have felt? "That new baby made me miss my cruise!" Now obviously, it was the parents' fault, not the baby's; but I can easily see a child blaming the new addition for the missed trip.

I don't know this family, and I wasn't there, so anything I say is speculation only. But it's entirely possible that they decided that it would be better for long-term inter-sibling harmony if they went ahead with the cruise.

In any case, the parents made the best decision FOR THEM. And that's what parents do: make the best decisions for themselves, their children, and their family as a whole.

Oh, I understand that we all have to do what is best for our individual families under the circumstances. I guess my point was that, in no way am I discounting what others go through to become parents "naturally" or through surrogacy, but in an adoptive situation, I *know* from personal experience the heartache, time investment, monetary investment, and most importantly, the emotional investment that goes along with becoming a parent via adoption... I would never change what we went through to become parents, but I also cherish every single moment with my son as a result of it... and I, personally, cannot fathom, after going through everything we did to adopt, choosing to leave him behind to take a vacation, under ANY circumstances, let alone something like this. I agree - foregoing thousands of dollars spent on a vacation is easier said than done, but money isn't going to replace 7 days with a brand new child that you're going to miss. Maybe the baby won't remember it, but you would... I also understand doing things in the interest of sibling harmony and having to "pad" the waters a little for an older sibling when bringing a new one, especially via adoption, into the family. You don't want them to feel left out, forgotten, or like they are "losing" anything because of the new baby. But, in my opinion, LEAVING the baby to take the older one on a vacation without the baby doesn't necessarily send the right message to that older child, either, about how this baby IS in fact a part of the family now. Yes, these people had to make a quick decision based upon what they thought was best for them and, yes, my statements clearly are judging them in a not-so-positive light, but I, PERSONALLY, after having been through an adoption and knowing how much I love this little boy and want to spend every conceivable bit of my time with him because we waited so long for him to become a part of our family, cannot even BEGIN to imagine making the decision that they did. Like I said, I would give up the vacation and find something else "fun" to do with the other child landbased before I would ever have considered leaving my newly-joined member of the family behind. Just my personal opinion, though. I understand that we all vary on them.

[6rugrats]

For those who missed the original story because mom locked the blog and then pulled this post, here is part of the story. People really should be careful of what they post online:

http://savingdollars.org/2012/05/dis...ild-on-cruise/

[wagzz21]

* I'll add after looking at their blog, that they have a beautiful family.... But, that said, the older sibling in this story is only now 2. I'm not sure when this happened, but she was a toddler, not an older kid who might harbor resentment for missing the ship...

[BeagleOne]

I'd like to have been able to read her original blog entry, but based on what I've read here and in the entry linked to above, I don't think this was Disney's fault. They state pretty clearly what documentation is required.

The family was in an unusual situation...between the point where the adoption is final but they don't have the birth certificate yet...so it was THEIR responsibility to ENSURE they had everything in order. One phone call a month before the cruise, with no written confirmation, (and who knows what was actually said, we only know what Betsy claims was said) is NOT ENOUGH.

And they obviously didn't bring every form of ID they could think of if they didn't bring the commemorative document from the hospital.

It's too bad that one family member was not able to go, but they are exceptionally lucky that a relative was nearby and willing and able to take the baby, and it sounds like he was well-cared-for. If the mom was that concerned about his not being able to go, or the effect cancelling the trip would have had on her toddler daughter, she could have sent her husband and daughter on the cruise and stayed with the baby.

[bus man]

Originally Posted by wagzz21

Oh, I understand that we all have to do what is best for our individual families under the circumstances. I guess my point was that, in no way am I discounting what others go through to become parents "naturally" or through surrogacy, but in an adoptive situation, I *know* from personal experience the heartache, time investment, monetary investment, and most importantly, the emotional investment that goes along with becoming a parent via adoption... I would never change what we went through to become parents, but I also cherish every single moment with my son as a result of it... and I, personally, cannot fathom, after going through everything we did to adopt, choosing to leave him behind to take a vacation, under ANY circumstances, let alone something like this. I agree - foregoing thousands of dollars spent on a vacation is easier said than done, but money isn't going to replace 7 days with a brand new child that you're going to miss. Maybe the baby won't remember it, but you would... I also understand doing things in the interest of sibling harmony and having to "pad" the waters a little for an older sibling when bringing a new one, especially via adoption, into the family. You don't want them to feel left out, forgotten, or like they are "losing" anything because of the new baby. But, in my opinion, LEAVING the baby to take the older one on a vacation without the baby doesn't necessarily send the right message to that older child, either, about how this baby IS in fact a part of the family now. Yes, these people had to make a quick decision based upon what they thought was best for them and, yes, my statements clearly are judging them in a not-so-positive light, but I, PERSONALLY, after having been through an adoption and knowing how much I love this little boy and want to spend every conceivable bit of my time with him because we waited so long for him to become a part of our family, cannot even BEGIN to imagine making the decision that they did. Like I said, I would give up the vacation and find something else "fun" to do with the other child landbased before I would ever have considered leaving my newly-joined member of the family behind. Just my personal opinion, though. I understand that we all vary on them.

FWIW, I'm an adoptive parent too; so I fully understand where you're coming from.

The family in question was faced with a very difficult decision to make, and they likely had no more than a couple of minutes to make it. Keep the family together and kiss the vacation (and lots of money) goodbye? Or leave their new baby with the relative and be apart for a week? It sounds like it would an easy call for you; but if I found myself in that situation, I'm not sure what I'd do. (We have no relatives in Florida, so that option is out the window.)

They picked the least-bad option for them, and sometimes that's the best that any of us can do.

(I didn't read the original blog post, so I didn't know until reading wagzz21's post that the sibling was a toddler, thus reducing the likelihood of resentment. Now that I know, I suppose that this can be discarded as a likely factor in their decision-making.)

[crusinmama06]

About 200 comments at the bottom and none of them good

I have to say - I agree with the majority of them

http://consumerist.com/2012/05/disne...on-cruise.html

[sailinglisa]

This is why whenever anyone asks about what is required to board a cruise and go out of the country with special circumstances, I always tell them to check with the highest authority on the subject, the US State Department. I would not trust what ANY representative of a cruise line says will be fine. Just not worth it if they are wrong, and they have been in the past.

[sailinglisa]

Originally Posted by crusinmama06

About 200 comments at the bottom and none of them good

I have to say - I agree with the majority of them

http://consumerist.com/2012/05/disne...on-cruise.html

Where's the "LIKE" button?

[beachchick]

Originally Posted by Onessa

I've never left my DD (now 16YO) with someone else so I could vacation. She's did the occassional overnight with gma/gpa and before they passed away, we regularly invited/took them with us and they were kind enough to babysit so DH and I could do some more "adult" type activities. DD liked going to the kids programs when she was a kid and that was pleanty of time for DH and I to take in a show or dance or whatever. As she has gotten older, she's done camps and other stuff -- so it is not like she can't be away from us.

I've read posts where you talk about your daughter and you have every reason to be proud of how you are raising her. IMO, it's great that she had some time on her own with her grands before they passed away. And she's obviously comfortable doing things on her own because, while you've had her with you, you've encouraged her to have her own experiences (kids programs, camps, etc.)

But I do have friends who do it all the time (BFF and her DH have taken the week of their anniversary off "alone" every year since they were married - their kids now have kids and appear no worse for the wear; my co-worker and her husband left their 3MO with his parents for a week-and-a-half to go to one of those beach island places) I cannot pretend to understand, but it is their "thing". Another co-worker announces in front of her two kids that she and her DH have to "get away from the kids" -- THAT I find disturbing, it is one thing to go off to re-connect, it is another to tell your kids that you want to go away because of them!

Totally agree! That is a sure way to make kids feel they are a bother or ruining their parents' lives. I also cannot understand leaving a 3 m/o for that long and we wouldn't have done it, but I guess it's what worked for them.

My parents always took vacations without us kids once we were out of diapers. Usually it would be a couple of weekend getaways and maybe 5 or 6 days in the summer (both teachers, so plenty of flexibility). They made it exciting for us by creating an environment of "We want you to have time with your grandparents/close relatives" and we "got" from a very young age that they weren't abandoning us, just having adult time. (Athough, I was peeved when I learned as an adult that we stayed with my dear grandma in Oregon, while they went to the worlds fair in Seattle. Nevermind that I had no idea at the time where they were; nevermind that my baby brother was too young to have handled the trip; nevermind that we had a great time with grandma; nevermind that they brought me cool stuff. Really!) OTOH, we had many, many family getaways and long camping trips every year, so plenty of family time.

My parents went off on vacations without my sister and I when I was young. Sometimes we'd get diviv'ed up between relatives, when sis was older, she'd be "in charge" (15YO and parents off in the Bahamas and you are home with your 8.5YO sister -- no fun for her, not much for me either). I volunteer a lot with kids stuff BBBS, GSA, other stuff -- and find that most kids do feel a bit confused and left out when their parents go off without them -- even if Gma or auntie or whomever is "fun to be with" you can see a real difference in most of them during these times. Some of the teachers will warn me when I do volunteer reading tutoring that a particular child's parents are in Hawaii and he's feeling a little low.

I'm not certain I would have minded staying separately from my brother. He was quite challenging for me much of the time. But my very much younger baby sister? No way, no how, not going to work. I too was tasked with weekend babysitting when I was about 17. No real biggie because my sibs were both well behaved (usually) and by then my brother wasn't quite so annoying. I would not have liked and my parents would not have expected me to mind them longer than an overnight. Then again, I was my sister's babysitter from the time she was little. I got a car and an extra allowance for it, so it was win-win all around.

I'm sure some kids are fine with it, but IMHO childhood is way way way too short and I want to make my kid's childhood great, and I really cannot bear to miss any of it. But that is me, and my kid -- everyone really needs to do what is right for them and their kid(s), but yes what "works" for you may not for your kid (or vice versa) and I think when they are young, what works for them really needs to be a priority.

I think so too. Every child has different needs and every parent needs to consider the family as a whole.

beachchick

[bralli]

I have a hard time not judging. We just plain never leave our kids to travel; maybe we are just strange that way. I think I'd just hang my head low for my dumb mistake and head back home but I can't see going without my baby (I don't think I would enjoy myself at all on the trip).

As far as causing emotional damage to the newborn, I don't buy that all. The kid's fine.

[cyntil8ing]

Originally Posted by bralli

I have a hard time not judging. We just plain never leave our kids to travel; maybe we are just strange that way. I think I'd just hang my head low for my dumb mistake and head back home but I can't see going without my baby (I don't think I would enjoy myself at all on the trip).

We cruise twice per year. Our family cruise in June and just DH and I in December. My kids look forward to both, because the grandparents come to stay at our house. They look at it as a vacation too.

Now if we ran into a paperwork issue and one of us couldn't board, none of us would be boarding. Same as if one was sick, or couldn't get off from work, or for whatever reason. If it's a family vacation; we go as a family or we don't go.

Originally Posted by bralli

As far as causing emotional damage to the newborn, I don't buy that all. The kid's fine.

There are numerous studies of adopted children with separation issues that would prove you wrong. And the baby was 9 months old, which is not a newborn.

However, even if he won't remember being left, the story is certain to stay in family lore. Especially with it being an extended family trip, there will be photos and stories shared for years and years. And every time, he'll be reminded that he got left behind.

[BeagleOne]

Originally Posted by cyntil8ing

And every time, he'll be reminded that he got left behind.

I hope spending one week of his infancy with family members who apparently took good care of him, rather than on a cruise, won't scar him for life. Maybe he'll grow up well-adjusted enough to realize that his parents had several viable, appropriate options to choose from (no one in their family of four goes, no one in the entire family party goes, one parent goes with the daughter and one stays with the baby, baby stays with a family member), and they did what they thought best at the time.

Of course the BEST option would have been for the parents to ensure that they had the appropriate documentation so he could travel, and not pass the blame off on the cruise line.

I think he might have a harder time dealing with being named "Beckham".

[alreadypacked]

Originally Posted by bus man

No bashing from me. I understand your point of view and respect you for it.

However, I can also understand the POV of the family described in the original post. Maybe part of it was the money; we all can't just shrug off a loss of thousands of dollars, and this may well have been the only shot at a vacation that this family would have had for awhile.

But more than that, I can see them not wanting to disappoint their other child. Can you imagine the months-long buildup to the cruise, only to have to miss it at the last minute? Can you imagine the resentment that the other child might have felt? "That new baby made me miss my cruise!" Now obviously, it was the parents' fault, not the baby's; but I can easily see a child blaming the new addition for the missed trip.

I don't know this family, and I wasn't there, so anything I say is speculation only. But it's entirely possible that they decided that it would be better for long-term inter-sibling harmony if they went ahead with the cruise.

In any case, the parents made the best decision FOR THEM. And that's what parents do: make the best decisions for themselves, their children, and their family as a whole.

Well said!

[Cruisin' Chick]

Originally Posted by 6rugrats

For those who missed the original story because mom locked the blog and then pulled this post, here is part of the story. People really should be careful of what they post online:

http://savingdollars.org/2012/05/dis...ild-on-cruise/

Originally Posted by sailinglisa

This is why whenever anyone asks about what is required to board a cruise and go out of the country with special circumstances, I always tell them to check with the highest authority on the subject, the US State Department. I would not trust what ANY representative of a cruise line says will be fine. Just not worth it if they are wrong, and they have been in the past.

I agree with those of you who feel it's not the cruiseline's fault. I'm not the parent of an adoptive child, but the planner in me would put off even planning any travel that requires documentation until I had the needed items for sure. One of the first things I was told in the hospital after my child was born is to get that birth certificate ordered (that the notice of birth we were getting is not anything official).

Our first post-baby cruise was when ours was 23 months of age, just because my hubby was nervous about her being a bother to others (she didn't take well to teething). We wouldn't have left her with the grandparents as we just didn't have the confidence in any of them (for various reasons I won't go into here) being able to handle her for a few days or more. Until that cruise, we took day trips with her (300 miles to Sea World, etc.). Since then, every vacation has included her. When she's in college in a few years, that will probably be no longer the case.

We took her birth certificate as documentation for that first cruise. But after realizing she's a pretty good traveler, we got her a passport at age 3. Since then, it's been renewed a few times and I'm taking it tomorrow to verify her age when I register her at her new high school.