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  #1  
Old July 1st, 2012, 03:30 PM
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Default Interesting article re P&O staff

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ip-indian-crew
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  #2  
Old July 1st, 2012, 08:54 PM
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This is how and why unions were formed.
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  #3  
Old July 1st, 2012, 10:44 PM
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Am I right in interpreting the "offer" as referring to perfornace based bonuses? - I wonder who assesses the 90% + rating. If it is planned to be based solely on passenger ratings that could be a problem given some of the negative and picky comments about staff on various threads.
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Old July 1st, 2012, 11:00 PM
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The old take it or leave it ploy at work. It's a good thing for the cruise lines there's a whole bunch of poor people keen for work, so they can just 'fire at will' ...regardless of their 'staff performance rating.'
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Old July 4th, 2012, 08:17 PM
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It all happened over a year ago.
They were not fired ....
their contracts were not renewed.

Interesting that the story was resurrected in P&O's 175th Celebration week.



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Old July 4th, 2012, 10:54 PM
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It's a bit more serious than just saying "they were not renewed."

Aside from being able to continue on their existing contracts - obviously performance was not an issue - the bigger one is they were terminated from future work - from all Carnival Lines, as well as any through their local employment agency.

To quote:
No waiter who took part in the protest would be re-engaged on any Carnival UK ship. Neither would they be offered any future contract by their employers, the Mumbai recruitment agency Fleet Maritime Service International. Enclosed was a letter from Fleet which added: "We have been provided with details regarding the situation from Carnival UK advising that they do not wish to re-engage you on a ship." It said that, "after careful consideration, we agree".

Also, while the short action that started it was just over a year ago, the actual termination notices were only sent out at the end of last year, after they had finished their contracts. Until then, they had no idea they were being terminated, especially as the captain of the ship had told them everything was fine, and they were able to continue to work on.

It's a really sad and drastic action to cut off almost all future employment in your career for these guys daring to peacefully strike for a couple of hours...
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Old July 4th, 2012, 11:02 PM
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Default come on David

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Kruzer View Post
It all happened over a year ago.
They were not fired ....
their contracts were not renewed.

Interesting that the story was resurrected in P&O's 175th Celebration week.


You're being a bit disingenuous with that comment.

These people work like slaves, for very ordinary pay, especially considering that they were on P&O. Their tips would have been nowhere near what those on US ships would be/are making. The Poms and us Antipodeans aren't the most generous of tippers.

Rightly or wrongly they decided to make others aware of their issue. By the report they were hardly boistrous in their protest.

'With the Arcadia in port in Seattle, about 150 of the lowest paid decided to protest.

Before that evening's meal, the waiters gathered on the dockside.
The demonstration inconvenienced some passengers, who had to wait for their usual table at the Arcadia's Meridian restaurant or dine earlier at the ship's Belvedere food court. Fewer than usual made it to the cabaret that night. But as one passenger blogged, the overall atmosphere was good.

Before the 90 minutes were up, the good-humoured protest was over. The ship's British captain, Kevin Oprey, had spoken to the Southampton head office to relay the restaurant staff's concerns. The waiters then returned to work, labouring late into the night, and were assured there would be no recriminations or sanctions.'

Of course P&O had a different angle and stated that the protest 'greatly impacted their customers'.

What a load of rubbish.

Ok, they weren't fired, but not having their contracts renewed means pretty much the same. So what if it was raised again during their 175th celebrations? I'd say it's the perfect time to highlight the injustice that is crew pay on ALL mass market ships and by ALL mass market cruise lines.

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  #8  
Old July 5th, 2012, 02:57 AM
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I believe the ship is of Bermuda registry. I believe through miminal research the employees who they fail to rehire have a strong case.

http://www.gov.bm/portal/server.pt/g...act_2000_1.pdf

http://www.bermudalaws.bm/Laws/Conso...Act%201975.pdf
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  #9  
Old July 5th, 2012, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smeyer418 View Post
I believe the ship is of Bermuda registry. I believe through miminal research the employees who they fail to rehire have a strong case.
I would like to think that is the case but I would bet my socks that P & O/Carnival will have it stitched up somehow that they do not. I wonder if they are in fact sub-contracted through the Indian agency.
Using overseas employment practices is not confined to cruise lines. Jetstar in Australia, for example, uses overseas agents to employ cabin staff so they can use contracts that would not be legal here.

Last edited by Aussieflyer; July 5th, 2012 at 06:15 AM.
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  #10  
Old July 5th, 2012, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussieflyer View Post
I would like to think that is the case but I would bet my socks that P & O/Carnival will have it stitched up somehow that they do not. I wonder if they are in fact sub-contracted through the Indian agency.
Using overseas employment practices is not confined to cruise lines. Jetstar in Australia, for example, uses overseas agents to employ cabin staff so they can use contracts that would not be legal here.
It makes them a joint employer-so the cruise line probably would be liable too. I know US labor law very well. Under US Law this would definitely be a violation. The complicating factor is that they in fact are covered under a Union contract-company union that it is- so the strike would have been illegal under the contract. But once the company agreed to take them back without retaliation that would cover deciding to give them a new contract. The Captain would have the apparent authority to bind the company.
I had a case where a US national was hired to work for a foreign subsidiary of a US company overseas. He was fired for Union activity(said so in the letter discharging him) in Hong Kong. I brought an action against the US company at a US labor Agency(the NLRB)...they were about to issue a complaint when the company settled. I saw arguing this very point before the US Supreme Court but their settlement for a lot of money made that unnecessary.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 07:51 PM
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In a twist on this subject it was on the news this morning form cnn that said the cruise industry made $ $53billion profit and paid only 1.1% tax. They pay no tax in the usa. Not even on the food they buy
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Reef escape-yasawa islands/dateline-Fiji-2x7nights
Reef endeavor - great barrier reef/cape York-2x7nights
Fiji princess- fiji-blue lagoon cruises-6 nights
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River Nile cruise.2005. Egypt 4 nights
Reef endeavor- Fiji-captain cook cruises-7nights
Dawn princess- pacific cruise-may 2011-12days
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  #12  
Old July 7th, 2012, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diy dave View Post
In a twist on this subject it was on the news this morning form cnn that said the cruise industry made $ $53billion profit and paid only 1.1% tax. They pay no tax in the usa. Not even on the food they buy
they pay a small tax on all tickets sold in the US and I bet the 53 billion in profits is wrong.

and I just looked at the CNN website and could not find any such report at all

Carnival represents about 60% of the cruising industry

come Statement
Revenues TTM 15.87B
Revenue Per Share TTM 26.62


Net Income TTM 1.429B
Earnings Per Share TTM 1.81

Last edited by smeyer418; July 7th, 2012 at 06:59 PM.
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Old July 7th, 2012, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smeyer418 View Post
they pay a small tax on all tickets sold in the US and I bet the 53 billion in profits is wrong.

and I just looked at the CNN website and could not find any such report at all

Carnival represents about 60% of the cruising industry

come Statement
Revenues TTM 15.87B
Revenue Per Share TTM 26.623


Net Income TTM 1.429B
Earnings Per Share TTM 1.81
Does Carnival Pay Its Fair Share of Taxes? Controversy Erupts At Carnival Annual Meeting

Posted on April 11, 2012 by Jim Walker
Comments (2)
I might have got the $53 bill wrong, but this item says it better than me.

Carnival held its annual meeting this morning at a hotel on Miami Beach. But today was different from the usually dull, self-serving pontificating by cruise line executives when a group demanding that Carnival pay its fair share of taxes appeared on the scene.
An organization called "1Miami" challenged Carnival and its CEO Micky Arison to pay their "fair share" of taxes. *Their presence caused an uproar with shareholders yelling at the protesters to be quiet and CEO Arison apologizing for the clamor.
Cruise lines avoidance of taxes is one of my favor topics. *Cruise lines like Carnival are registered in Panama to escape U.S. taxes. *According to the New York Times,*Carnival paid taxes of only 1.1 percent of their $11.3 billion in profits over the last five years. *The issue is a hot one after Senator Rockefeller grilled cruise line executives at a Senate hearing last month why cruise lines use some 40 federal agencies yet avoid all U.S. taxes by registering their businesses and ships in places like Liberia and the Bahamas.
This is a story I have written about a lot: Is Micky Arison A Greedy Corporate Pig? * Nothing subtle here.
You can also check out some other articles*No Taxes - The Cruise Line's Dirty Little Secret*or Your Tax Dollars at Work - Who Pays When Things Go Wrong On Cruises?*
The "controversy" was caused by the 1Miami grass roots organization simply asking Carnival to pay its fair share of taxes and help keep Miami afloat.
The Miami Herald*reported Carnival's claim that it pays "head taxes" to ports around the world. *But this is hardly true; its the passengers who pay the port taxes. *Carnival just acts as a middle man. The Herald also writes that CEO Arison found the tax questions "insulting." *
Ah, a raw nerve. *Arison is very touchy about the issue of taxes. This is probably because he is the richest person in Florida. *And probably because of some slick and embarrassing tax maneuvering by his father, Ted Arison. * *
Carnival was created by the senior Arison in the 1960's. *He raked in tens of billions of dollars from tax paying U.S. passengers, exploited the hell out of Caribbean crew members, and lived the good life in Miami. But he registered his Miami-based cruise line and his cruise ships in Panama to avoid U.S. taxes. In 1990, he abandoned Miami, denounced his U.S. citizenship, and returned to Israel with his billions in a ploy to avoid estate and inheritance taxes.
Carnival should have seen the protesters coming from a mile away. *
Earlier in the week the 1Miami group protested about Carnival's non-payment of taxes while in small boats next to Arison's super yacht, the 200 foot Feadship*Mylin IV, at the Miami Beach marina.
You can watch the video here.
Arison's personal yacht, by the way, is registered in the Cayman Islands - to avoid taxes. *
TAGS: Taxes, arison, carnival, cruise, micky arison, tax, ted arison
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Fair sky. Uk- Sydney-1959 via suezcanal-32days.aged11
Britanis. Sydney- Uk-1974 via panama canal-30 days
Mikhail sholokhov- 1995-round new Zealand-14 days
Reef escape-yasawa islands/dateline-Fiji-2x7nights
Reef endeavor - great barrier reef/cape York-2x7nights
Fiji princess- fiji-blue lagoon cruises-6 nights
Murray princess. Paddle wheeler. Murray river. 4nights
River Nile cruise.2005. Egypt 4 nights
Reef endeavor- Fiji-captain cook cruises-7nights
Dawn princess- pacific cruise-may 2011-12days
Amalotus -Mekong river- nov 2011-7 nights
Yangzi explorer- yangzi river. Oct 2011-4nights
Voyager of the seas. N.Z. Dec 2012. 14 nights
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  #14  
Old July 7th, 2012, 07:25 PM
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The last item comes from cruiselawnews.com
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PAST CRUISES.
Fair sky. Uk- Sydney-1959 via suezcanal-32days.aged11
Britanis. Sydney- Uk-1974 via panama canal-30 days
Mikhail sholokhov- 1995-round new Zealand-14 days
Reef escape-yasawa islands/dateline-Fiji-2x7nights
Reef endeavor - great barrier reef/cape York-2x7nights
Fiji princess- fiji-blue lagoon cruises-6 nights
Murray princess. Paddle wheeler. Murray river. 4nights
River Nile cruise.2005. Egypt 4 nights
Reef endeavor- Fiji-captain cook cruises-7nights
Dawn princess- pacific cruise-may 2011-12days
Amalotus -Mekong river- nov 2011-7 nights
Yangzi explorer- yangzi river. Oct 2011-4nights
Voyager of the seas. N.Z. Dec 2012. 14 nights
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  #15  
Old July 7th, 2012, 08:07 PM
6andy6 6andy6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Kruzer View Post
It all happened over a year ago.
They were not fired ....
their contracts were not renewed.


Pmsl.

Oh that made all the difference then doesn't it. An expected comment for an apologist for all things cruising....

Up there with the 'they were not sacked, they were redeployed'
' this isn't a war, it's a police action'
' I'm not a racist, I have some colored friends but.....'

But keep fantasizing as at the end of the day they were paid back for standing up for themselves however long ago it was.....
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Last edited by 6andy6; July 7th, 2012 at 08:12 PM.
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Old July 8th, 2012, 01:35 AM
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tax avoidance is nothing illegal. no one pays federal inheritance taxes any more(sometimes called death taxes-btw the inheritance taxes were originally put in by republicans to prevent free loading heirs). when George streinbrenner principal owner of the Yankees died worth 4 billion dollars no inheritance taxes were paid.

tax cheating is criminal, tax avoidance is within the law.
and though i am not sure florida has no personal income tax either

Last edited by smeyer418; July 8th, 2012 at 01:48 AM.
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