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  #1  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 10:21 AM
bogey bogey is offline
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Default Shadow --- i'll wait for the facts

I've tried to read through all 275+ posts on another thread about the Shadow's sanitation inspection. That thread seems to be developing into a clash of personalities, so I thought it might be worth the effort to try a new thread.

At the outset, I will admit that, based on 4 wonderful cruise experiences in the past 3 years, I am a big fan of Silversea. However, I am not trying to make any apologies for the line or the Shadow. The FACT that the Shadow failed a sanitation inspection is very troubling, and I am anxiously awaiting more FACTs about that failure.

However, it occurs to me that we all ought to take a step back and look at the FACTS which we know about the Shadow. After reading everything I could find on the subject here are the very few facts available:

1. The Shadow failed (over a month ago) a CDC Sanitation Inspection.
2. The line has issued a statement acknowledging the failure and stating that corrective action has been taken.

That is all we know about the inspection. My point is that we don't know why the CDC issued its failing grade and we don't know what corrective actions have been taken.

We have allegations presented by a lawyer in his blog that some disgruntled employees have made allegations (note the "allegations" upon "allegations") that the Shadow specifically and the line in general is/are guilty of some outrageous practices.

That blog presents some photographic "evidence" of some of these practices. I've looked at those photos and find that, without some foundation and explanation, they don't seem very helpful in my search for fact. The first photo, for example, shows a cart loaded with a lot of stuff sitting in a passageway. Without more detail, we cannot know what is on that cart, where it is sitting, or how long it has been sitting there. The second photo seems to show some food on trays in a cooler. Without more detail, this photo doesn't tell us much. The third photo shows some meat products and a thermometer which seems to show that the temperature is right at freezing. I think that is what the CDC is hoping to find when meat products are stored.

Yes, I'm sure that some will look at those photos and draw different conclusions. I think that proves my point that the evidentiary value of those photos, without additional information, is fairly weak.

It may turn out that the allegations we are reading about and reacting to are all true. If so, I will re-evaluate my very favorable opinions about the line, and my future plans to sail with Silversea.

However, I will wait for facts before I make any conclusions.

Bogey

  #2  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 12:21 PM
Stumblefoot Stumblefoot is offline
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Thanks for your post. I appreciate your approach and general level headedness.
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  #3  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 01:23 PM
wripro wripro is offline
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You are certainly entitled to do so. Other may feel they already have more than enough facts. And whose facts are you waiting for anyway? Silversea's? That should be highly impartial!!!!

  #4  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 02:02 PM
5waldos 5waldos is offline
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Here are the facts.
http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryT...n6DxX6qpl9c%3d

  #5  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 02:53 PM
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Silver Spectre Silver Spectre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5waldos View Post
Thanks for posting the link.

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Old July 22nd, 2013, 02:58 PM
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Page 2 of the report seems to address the heart of the matter.

  #7  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 03:21 PM
HanaleiSailor HanaleiSailor is offline
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Default It does not get much worse than this . . .

Aloha All,

Item No.: 13 Site: Other-Galley Crew Cabins Violation: An organized effort was made to physically remove over 15 full trolleys of dry foods, spices, canned foods, cooked foods, milk, raw meats, pasteurized eggs, cheeses of all types, baking goods, raw fruits, raw vegetables, and a variety of both hand held and counter model food equipment, pans, dishware and utensils to over 10 individual cabins shared by two or three galley crew members in order to avoid inspection by VSP staff. All the out of temperature potentially hazardous foods were discarded along with most other foods that were not canned or in original containers. The lead VSP inspector poured concentrated chlorine liquid over all the discarded foods as they were dumped into garbage bags to ensure they would not be used again.

Hiding these PHF's in crew cabins was a very dangerous practice. If this were a land-based restaurant, I would not eat out of this kitchen if the Health Dept. revealed these practices.

Aloha from Hanalei,

Mark

  #8  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 03:27 PM
TLCOhio TLCOhio is offline
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Default Seeing CDC Reports in Detail! Interesting!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5waldos View Post
Appreciate this link to this CDC posting. Have a friend who is at a top level with CDC. He does not do the the ship checks, but knows this agency well . . . AND its major responsibilities to protect us. Very, very interesting in reading through the reports on several different cruise ships. Lots of details and aspects for how they do this work. Kind of like how hospital and nursing home checks are done by government agencies. Glad people do this work and are focus on such details/checking.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio


For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2010, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 113,105 views.
http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/s....php?t=1227923

  #9  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 03:53 PM
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I was prepared for some of the issues but not for what I read in the report. We are hoping that some heads roll ..... particularly the person who told the staff to hide everything when the inspectors were on the ship. IMO, the crew were following instructions from management -- management has absolutely no excuse!

The Shadow will probably be fine in September when we board....... just find this terribly sad - both for the crew and for passengers.
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Total nights: Regent = 254 / Silversea = 36 / Oceania = 12
Sailings per ship: Voyager (10), Mariner (3), Navigator (3), PG (1), Silver Spirit (1), Silver Whisper (1), Silver Shadow (1), Oceania Riviera (1)

Itineraries Sailed: Alaska (2 sailings) / Baltics / Barcelona – Dubai / Cape Town – Rio / E. & W. Caribbean (3 sailings) / Ft. Lauderdale – Lima / Istanbul-Venice / London-Monte Carlo / Miami – Barcelona / Mumbai – Bali / New York-Southampton / Singapore to Sydney / Stockholm - Copenhagen / Tahiti / Venice-Rome / Vancouver-Tokyo

Upcoming cruises: / Rome to Lisbon - 10 nights - Mariner / Miami to Miami - 14 nights - Riviera / Rio to Barcelona - 18 nights - Mariner / Cape Town to Cape Town - 15 nights - Mariner / Explorer - 2016

  #10  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 04:13 PM
bogey bogey is offline
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Angry The Facts --- Are Ugly

I thought I made it clear that the facts I wanted would be contained the actual report of the CDC. I did not intend to imply that I was waiting for something from Silversea.

Thankfully, the CDC posted their report today. (Thanks 5Waldos for pointing that out.)

So now we have the facts, and they are truly horrible. Indeed, the score of 82 is worse than reported by the bloggers. Most damning is the comment by the CDC that the actions in putting food in cabins was specifically for the purpose of avoiding/evading inspection. Deliberate, purposeful action like that should be criminal. I'm relatively certain, however, that violations and sanctions are administrative rather than criminal in nature.

The Silversea response to the inspectors may be sufficient for the purposes of responding to the inspection regime, but it is wholly inadequate for any other purpose. Signed, documented training forms do nothing to respond to the real problem -- the intentional effort to hide potentially unsafe and unsanitary conditions and to avoid rules and regulations designed to ensure passenger safety. People in charge need to be fired. People who willingly participated need to be removed, demoted or disciplined.

Silversea should provide specific information about the remedial actions they have taken. They should do so immediately. Signed statements promising never to do that again are little more than an attempt to sweep the problems under the carpet in hopes that nobody will notice.

Additionally, I hope that the CDC will re-inspect the Shadow while it is still in US waters. It appears that the ship will be calling in US Ports until mid-September. If an inspection isn't held within the next few weeks, Silversea should request one in an effort to demonstrate that their corrective actions (whatever they are) have had meaningful, positive results.

Bogey

  #11  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 05:09 PM
5waldos 5waldos is offline
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I'd rather like the CDC to do some visits to some of the other Silversea ships with this report in mind. That would be rather more comforting to me.

The other thing that is of major concern is that the medical staff was apparently ill trained in what needed to be reported. It is difficult not to wonder how much of that was also a coverup- Silversea has not had a reported outbreak in many many years.

  #12  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogey View Post
I thought I made it clear that the facts I wanted would be contained the actual report of the CDC. I did not intend to imply that I was waiting for something from Silversea.

Thankfully, the CDC posted their report today. (Thanks 5Waldos for pointing that out.)

So now we have the facts, and they are truly horrible. Indeed, the score of 82 is worse than reported by the bloggers. Most damning is the comment by the CDC that the actions in putting food in cabins was specifically for the purpose of avoiding/evading inspection. Deliberate, purposeful action like that should be criminal. I'm relatively certain, however, that violations and sanctions are administrative rather than criminal in nature.The USPH/CDC mandate for inspecting foreign ships (cargo as well as cruise) is to prevent the introduction of disease into the US. So their focus has always been to inspect ships for unsanitary conditions that could possibly result in a passenger or crew bringing a disease ashore. The intent of the law, which dates back to the 1800's, was not on the health of passengers while on the ship, but to prevent them from getting sick and disembarking with a disease. The Vessel Sanitation Program that the USPH uses to inspect both the construction and operation of cruise ships was promulgated BY THE CRUISE INDUSTRY ITSELF. So the USPH is only enforcing rules that the industry placed on itself. The USPH has no criminal jurisdiction over any foreign flag ship, they can only suspend or revoke a ship's certificate to load/unload passengers in US ports.

The Silversea response to the inspectors may be sufficient for the purposes of responding to the inspection regime, but it is wholly inadequate for any other purpose. Signed, documented training forms do nothing to respond to the real problem -- the intentional effort to hide potentially unsafe and unsanitary conditions and to avoid rules and regulations designed to ensure passenger safety. People in charge need to be fired. People who willingly participated need to be removed, demoted or disciplined.

Silversea should provide specific information about the remedial actions they have taken. They should do so immediately. Signed statements promising never to do that again are little more than an attempt to sweep the problems under the carpet in hopes that nobody will notice. Despite the PR problem that this appears to be, don't hold your breath waiting for an action report from Silversea, or any cruise line to something like this.

Additionally, I hope that the CDC will re-inspect the Shadow while it is still in US waters. It appears that the ship will be calling in US Ports until mid-September. If an inspection isn't held within the next few weeks, Silversea should request one in an effort to demonstrate that their corrective actions (whatever they are) have had meaningful, positive results.Any ship that has a failing score needs to submit an action plan to the USPH for approval, with a time frame for implementation. When USPH approves the action plan, with timeline, there will be a re-inspection at the end of the timeline, to verify compliance. Also, since USPH probably feels that there is a corporate culture of hiding things during inspections, they will definitely step up their inspections of all Silversea ships calling on US ports.

Bogey
While I agree that people should be fired, I wouldn't hold my breath that the true culprits in the corporate headquarters will go. Captain, Staff Captain, Chief Engineer, Staff Chief Engineer, Hotel Director, Food & Beverage Director, Executive Chef, and Sanitation Supervisor (or Silversea's equivalent titles) will probably go, or at least receive letters of warning.

  #13  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 06:28 PM
duct tape duct tape is offline
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I vote for "go".

  #14  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
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I vote for "go".
Go, go, go. It may be difficult for a low status crew member to complain/report without fear of losing a most important job, anyone above that level needs to go. Hopefully but rarely starting at the top. Usually the"top" have corp. sponsors/mentors who try to protect them. If I hear of even ONE NON-supervisory crew member being sacked I will scream. Being fired, for those who don't know, usually means being put off the ship at the next port, with transportation home on your dime. Let's nope the most vulnerable don't end up paying the price for their master's crimes.
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  #15  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 08:07 PM
Island Cruiser Island Cruiser is offline
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The shocking part of this report is all the stuff that was found hidden in crew cabins. One has to assume that if all that stuff hadn't been discovered by the inspectors it would have been returned to service and appeared in the main dining room that night or on room service trays the next morning. Yum!

  #16  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 08:48 PM
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If this does not make national news in the U.S. or Britain, Silversea has no reason to comment. Just my opinion.

  #17  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 08:48 PM
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Some pretty shocking stuff, though why on earth would they attempt to hide all this food in crew quarters. Does not make any sense.

I am actually more worried about the temperatures of the food in the frigs. Very worrisome. I have had more than one case of food poisoning from a restaurant, and most if not all were probably due to inadequate refrigeration of perishable foods. Soup and meat are particularly dangerous in this regard because bacteria love these fertile breeding grounds.

  #18  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Island Cruiser View Post
The shocking part of this report is all the stuff that was found hidden in crew cabins. One has to assume that if all that stuff hadn't been discovered by the inspectors it would have been returned to service and appeared in the main dining room that night or on room service trays the next morning. Yum!
Yes, why else hide it instead of throwing it out? The statement about intentionally hiding is damning. The inspectors doused the food with chlorine to prevent it from being served. The fact that they felt that was necessary is chilling.
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  #19  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 09:23 PM
tgh tgh is offline
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The inspectors doused the food with chlorine to prevent it from being served. The fact that they felt that was necessary is chilling.

+1.. a truly horrific report that points to a systemic whole of company policy process.
I'm sure some heads will roll just for show.. but the true culprits are the senior management team who are probably untouchable.
Pity the family didn't take more interest.

  #20  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 09:52 PM
funny26 funny26 is offline
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Have no doubt the lawyers are keeping SS from commenting any more than is absolutely necessary. Any hint of the type of response most on this board are asking for would simply be fodder for the forthcoming lawsuits and the worst thing any company could do would be to accept responsibility in writing as that would assure the necessity of paying out millions of dollars, euros, etc.

Usually the quiet begins once the lawsuit is filed however in this case, the information already provided plus the report issued today means the lawsuits are just around the corner.

Expect settlements with no acceptability of of blame.

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