Mariner 15/10/06 - aaahh! Bears!

[hadaway and cruise]

This is my first post on this site. In fact I did not know about it until I spoke with people who were on this cruise. Let me fill you in.

Fourteen of us from the UK decided to back to back the two cruises from Port Canaveral. First time my wife and I had used RCL (not that impressed compared to NCL and Celebrity but that was not the point).

The second week we were joined by 400-500 bears. If you don't know what I am referring to try www.*************** and this may give you a flavour of what we have just put up with for the last 7days.

Now don't get me wrong we are not homophobes but we have simply witnessed what can only be described as a Roman orgy. The Solarium area for the whole week was a "bear only destination". Certains bars each night also became no go areas as up to 150 would congragate in a single bar.

RC answer ? Extra security guards taken from the Port and piling deck chairs above the Solarium in the hope that children could not see what was going on!

I am hoping to get other cruisers opinion on this as I apart individual complaints to the MD I believe we should also have a collective one.

We are hopping mad about this and hope others are also.

If those who were not on it are wondering what happened here are couple of tasters

• Groups of 10-15 in the swimming pool kissing cuddling and groping each other.
• One giving oral pleasure to another at 1pm in the solarium.
• Photo's been taken of penis's in public lifts.

Look forward to a few replies

[init4fun]

This behavior is uncalled for whether it be two males or a male and female or two females, you must have courtesy for the other cruisers, this kind of behavior should be behind closed doors, and dont get me wrong, I am not a prude, just dont think it should be allowed where there are pressionable young minds nearby(children)

[jst]

Sorry to hear about your horrible experience, conduct such as this should not have to be witnessed on ANY cruiseship unless specifically requested by a participant. The general public including families and children, should be able to enjoy a cruise vacation the way they are advertised!!!
According to their website they are going to part-take their next cruise on NCL Pearl Nov 2 - 2007, I wonder if other unsuspecting people will have to be subjected to this type of behavour...Please do not let this spoil your ideas of a future cruise vacation. We like so many others have enjoyed wonderful vacations on RCCL, and other cruise lines.

[SomeBeach]

The "Live from the Mariner" thread was not pulled but it was closed by the mods. It has fallen back to pg 2, maybe 3 now.
This is a serious problem that all cruise lines are going to have to watch out for. I have no problem with gay cruisers but do with inappropriate behavior by anyone. Certain activities should be conducted behind closed doors.
I hope all the people that have experienced this unfortunate cruise will register a complaint with RCI, both while on the ship and after they depart. We should not have to go to that porn site to see what cruises they are booking but we should have a right to know if this group will be on a ship we plan to cruise on.

[wolfgang36]

We were there and have pictures from the Solarium of the behavior mentioned. We are saving these comments to a word format and will forward to RCCL. I'm sure they are reading them anyway. They are offering nothing more than "sorry". They have the nerve to try to act as though they have recieved no other complaints than mine. "RIGHT". I hope more will be posted from the passengers that were there. I would recommend saving some of these comments as soon as you see them and before they are yanked.

[dmk446]

The thread Mod, Karen, also indicated the tread violated the guidelines and that's why it was closed. In her defense I have to say it was getting pretty wild towards the end and her decision was probably valid.

[hawt1]

Originally Posted by dmk446

The thread Mod, Karen, also indicated the tread violated the guidelines and that's why it was closed. In her defense I have to say it was getting pretty wild towards the end and her decision was probably valid.

Perhaps that is true. I have not read the entire thread. I just started reading new threads today and they got completely pulled after a few posts which is why people start questioning motives.

To the OP and others who were on this cruise, I would think that your complaint can not be about this group in particular but needs to address the inaction of RCCL crew towards reported incidents that were contrary to their policy. If that negatively impacted your cruise then you may have an argument.

[FitzLA]

Warning to those clicking on the bear voyage link that the op posted...don't delve to far into the site as you might see more than your eyes ever wanted to see!!!

[xxbrowns]

Thanks for the warning. I found out the hard way.

[FitzLA]

Originally Posted by xxbrowns

Thanks for the warning. I found out the hard way.

Sory, I guess I was a little late with the warning.

[celebrity]

I am absolutely appalled that this behavior is being tolerated by RCCL. Personally, if I had been on that ship, I can assure you that i would have gotten together with a lot of other pasengers and DEMANDED a meeting asap with the Hotel manager and the Captain. You paid good money for that cruise and to be subjected to abuse and in my eyes, it is abuse, since it prevented you and many others from enjoying your vacation. there is no excuse for this!! I think it's time we all contact RCCL corporate regarding this!! I will be doing this tomorrow!!

[Sue L]

Originally Posted by celebrity

I am absolutely appalled that this behavior is being tolerated by RCCL. Personally, if I had been on that ship, I can assure you that i would have gotten together with a lot of other pasengers and DEMANDED a meeting asap with the Hotel manager and the Captain. You paid good money for that cruise and to be subjected to abuse and in my eyes, it is abuse, since it prevented you and many others from enjoying your vacation. there is no excuse for this!! I think it's time we all contact RCCL corporate regarding this!! I will be doing this tomorrow!!

Someone did post that some people complained, though from the descriptions not is an appropriate manner and they got put off at the next port (the complainers not the bears) The post was towards the end of the thread if you want to read through it.

[mafig]

I have to say I'm quite disappointed in the way Captain Johnny handled this.

From the previous thread, it seems like he didn't want to get involved and was afraid to say/do anything that would offend the Bears.

[cruiser_jay]

The word of the day is tolerance! I was part of the large group in question.

First, I would like to address the “straight” passengers not being informed the “bears” would be on the ship. Well my partner and I were not informed there would be; Asian, Chinese, Jewish, or the Red Hat ladies on the ship. Discrimination and hate is all equal.

Second, of the nearly the 100 people disembarked from the ship, none of them were from our group. The people that were forced off the ship were the ones that came up to members of our group and started yelling and telling us we were going to burn in hell if we didn’t change. And the family who was in the elevator screaming at the “******s” then punched out all the buttons of the elevator, did they not know they was a camera? I know everyone has there own beliefs and that’s ok, it is wrong when we come up and threaten another person because they are not in line with your beliefs. The last time I checked we were not in Germany during the 1930’s. And what we do in the privacy of our cabins is our business.

Third, the statement that areas were closed off to no one but the “bears” if you listened to the crew of the ship what they told you was “there is a large group of alternative lifestyle persons here, if you would like to stay you are more than welcome”. Actually there were several “straight” people in the solarium with us, and if you are reading this Linda or Steve it was nice to meet you, congrats on the wedding in ST Thomas.

As for the inappropriate behavior the “bears” were not the ones in the casino or around the pool making obnoxious fools of ourselves. Maybe if the “straight” men acted like gentlemen the women would have been as nice to them as they were to us. Many women came into the solarium as a place of safety from the grabby hands and cat calls of many uncontrollable men. Truly the only ones who made asses of themselves were the ones so insecure of themselves they felt they needed to wear a badge proclaiming they were “straight club members”. BTW guys we don’t want you, don’t flatter yourself.

I just ask if you aren’t going to be tolerant on your next cruise, stay home. Otherwise open you mind and who knows you might make a new friend. Just remember we are everywhere, who knows maybe the cop that pulls you over next week could be one of “us”.


Oh yeah as for family friendly several of us had straight family on board, there were couples with children and others who even brought mom. Yes, we to have families.

Originally Posted by hadaway and cruise

This is my first post on this site. In fact I did not know about it until I spoke with people who were on this cruise. Let me fill you in.

Fourteen of us from the UK decided to back to back the two cruises from Port Canaveral. First time my wife and I had used RCL (not that impressed compared to NCL and Celebrity but that was not the point).

The second week we were joined by 400-500 bears. If you don't know what I am referring to try www.*************** and this may give you a flavour of what we have just put up with for the last 7days.

Now don't get me wrong we are not homophobes but we have simply witnessed what can only be described as a Roman orgy. The Solarium area for the whole week was a "bear only destination". Certains bars each night also became no go areas as up to 150 would congragate in a single bar.

RC answer ? Extra security guards taken from the Port and piling deck chairs above the Solarium in the hope that children could not see what was going on!

I am hoping to get other cruisers opinion on this as I apart individual complaints to the MD I believe we should also have a collective one.

We are hopping mad about this and hope others are also.

If those who were not on it are wondering what happened here are couple of tasters

• Groups of 10-15 in the swimming pool kissing cuddling and groping each other.
• One giving oral pleasure to another at 1pm in the solarium.
• Photo's been taken of penis's in public lifts.

Look forward to a few replies

[Fury1995]

I still stand behind my statement (that was yanked with the earlier thread). Why oh why would RCI allow this group to continue to conduct themselves in this way? RCI knew what this ship was in for, you can best believe it. Again, I repeat I am gay ... AND I would have been just as upset if I had witnessed my partner subjected to the same type of harrassment that Travis experienced.

I have no issue with this group or any group booking passage on any ship. What I do have an issue with is the obvious intent of bringing a production film crew along. Did no one at RCI ask a single question?? Don't they proof or approve of whatever is being filmed on one of their vessels by a production company? I have seen the website and whatever.... it's a website and you elect to go there or not. I also have seen the film clips and recognized interior and exterior areas of the ship where some questionable behavior was caught on film. This was on a PAST cruise aboard a Royal Caribbean ship.

This type of excitement generated by having a pornagriphic production company aboard *filming* a movie combined with the excitement of just being on vacation aboard a cruise ship could only create a *spring break* type of atmosphere where inhibitions are completely forgotten.

Unfortunately it seems the rest of the passengers just got in the way as far as RCI is concerned. I can only imagine what kind of harassment the cabin stewards, waiters, and bartenders went through this past week.

[sonnykub]

Well, I'm back from my week-long cruise on the Mariner of the Seas. We were on the infamous "Bear Cruise" that is now quite the talk of the boards.

Overall, the group was similar to that of other groups - annoying. But, that's just me, I don't like ANY large group taking over the ship - gay or otherwise. I don't care if it's a group of Bears or a group of Bridge Playing Seniors...

I guess I didn't see the same thing that the OP saw, though we were granted permission to the Solarium and other areas throughout the week. When we entered the Solarium area, which appeared more like a police state than anything else (due to the exceptionally high number of security presence), we were told that the area was the primary pool/meeting spot of the "Bear Group", but we were welcomed to use the area.

What we saw, OK, I'd have to say it was about PG-13 for most of the time, with some incidents going right to R (and thankfully ending shortly thereafter). The whole kissing/cuddling thing didn't really bother me, since you see that with the young 20s/teenage crowd anyhow, basically latched on to one another in the pool/hottubs anyhow. Some of the grab-ass and other things, well, I've seen worse going to adult entertainment clubs.

However, we're not talking about an adult entertainment club, I'm aware. It's the Solarium, which is reserved for guests 16 years of age or older. It's also why the security folks provided us with a caution/warning prior to entering the area. We saw many others as well in the Solarium, including a small group of women who were doing the same grab-ass to the men that they were doing to each other.

What ticks me off the most is all of the rumors that flew around during the cruise. You know, someone that is all of a sudden your trusted confidante that you met at Boleros the day before talking about how they saw someone in an elevator doing something bad, and of course, they heard it from their best friend they met the night before at the Casino Royale. If you saw things first-hand, that's fine, but some of the nonsense we heard was more annoying than anything else.

Here's some of that:
1> All of the guys were either in speedos or in women's underwear at the Solarium. While we saw some guys who should never wear anything shorter than a Burka while swimming, I didn't see women's underwear.

2> There were several men wearing chaps (with nothing underneath) to the Formal Dining Room. Didn't see that either.

3> The Bear Group made the waiters at Johnny Rockets sing "Y-M-C-A". Mind you, the 5 cruises I've been on in the past 18 months alone on the Mariner, I've heard this song....it's now special to this past week's cruise.

4> The casino had a "bear night" and increased the winning computations on the slot machines so they would win all of the "straight club's" money. PUH-LEEEZE.

Some truths of the week - at least from my personal experience:

1> There was some definite tension between some of the folks who obviously have a problem with lifestyle differences and the Bears. I, in fact, saw one heterosexual couple who appeared to be quite intoxicated telling some of the Bear folks some pretty rude things, then proceeded to kick the heck out of an elevator.

2> Some of the displays on the doors on deck 9 were, well, a little out of taste. Ken dolls with phalluses in their speedos...well...that's not of the best decorum on a ship such as the Mariner.

3> Again, as above, the Solarium was PG-13 (kissing/cuddling/grab-ass) with some incidents such as crotch grabbing and whatnot turning that up to an R or NC-17 rating quite quick. Security on the ship and self-policing within the group appeared to have resolved this from the little that we did see. I didn't see anyone splashing at people walking by or cat-calling. If you know the layout of the solarium, the walkway that a person would be walking by and the pool...well...they aren't side by side.

4> We were upgraded to the Royal Family Suite from a lower cabin class a week before the cruise. Little did we know that they were indeed shooting a porn movie in Suite 9694 next door. We confronted the men, and yes, they did tell us that they were shooting film all week, and the movie would be out in April. It was a little obvious given the walls between 9394 (ours) and 9694 are paper thin. This is something I plan to complain about, primarily because I enjoy my sleep and not, "turn your butt over to the camera." DOH!

Overall, I had a good cruise. The balcony was absolutely stellar that we spent most of our time there, in the Concierge Lounge, in the Spa, and in the Alternative Dining establishments during the cruise. We also crashed the Bear Group's "Bear-e-oke" night in the Lotus Lounge, and had a good time. Most of the songs were country music, which is a nice change from the normal Karaoke nights.

St. Maarten was a washout due to the rain, but it was nice that they had extra activites on board due to the nasty weather outside. Kudos to showing films in the Savoy Theatre instead of the tiny screening room.

Other than that...I can't say enough how all groups suck, be them gay or straight or otherwise. However, I didn't let anyone ruin my vacation.

Cheers!

-Steve

[kavanaugh77]

to ALL the str8 people who are writing to these threads.
I love how when you start off your reply let me start I am not prejudice. I dont care if they are gay or str8
this is the same as saying I am not prejudice some of my best friends are: ____________________( fill in the blank: Black gay fat short blonde arab etc). Hate is hate is hate and when yuou have to start with a statement such as that you are trying to make excuses for your own prejudices either real or unreal for fear of the unknown lets try to talk and you will see us gay people are no different than you str8 people my partner and I have been together 17 yrs this year more than many str8 couples now adays

[Merion_Mom]

Originally Posted by kavanaugh77

to ALL the str8 people who are writing to these threads.
I love how when you start off your reply let me start I am not prejudice. I dont care if they are gay or str8
this is the same as saying I am not prejudice some of my best friends are: ____________________( fill in the blank: Black gay fat short blonde arab etc). Hate is hate is hate and when yuou have to start with a statement such as that you are trying to make excuses for your own prejudices either real or unreal for fear of the unknown lets try to talk and you will see us gay people are no different than you str8 people my partner and I have been together 17 yrs this year more than many str8 couples now adays

Ok, kavanaugh, this time I'll reply to you.

With a couple of exceptions, ALL of the posters on Cruise Critic have SPECIFICALLY criticized the behavior, NOT the people.

If you can't see the difference, you need to seek assistance in understanding this.

[jdrow]

Originally Posted by kavanaugh77

to ALL the str8 people who are writing to these threads.
I love how when you start off your reply let me start I am not prejudice. I dont care if they are gay or str8
this is the same as saying I am not prejudice some of my best friends are: ____________________( fill in the blank: Black gay fat short blonde arab etc). Hate is hate is hate and when yuou have to start with a statement such as that you are trying to make excuses for your own prejudices either real or unreal for fear of the unknown lets try to talk and you will see us gay people are no different than you str8 people my partner and I have been together 17 yrs this year more than many str8 couples now adays

Do you not think some of the things mentioned were inappropriate? There are firsthand accounts of things that would offend me no matter who performed them. Acting as if the offended is somehow in the wrong is just as narrow minded IMO. You even have a homosexual on this thread saying the behavior is wrong. Is he prejudice? Yes there are bigots but the behavior mentioned crosses the line for many open minded people as well. The anger for many people may be spurred by biotry but I can guarantee you that there are many who are completely open to this lifestyle who are offended. Please don't generalize everyone together.

[Fury1995]

Originally Posted by kavanaugh77

to ALL the str8 people who are writing to these threads.
I love how when you start off your reply let me start I am not prejudice. I dont care if they are gay or str8
this is the same as saying I am not prejudice some of my best friends are: ____________________( fill in the blank: Black gay fat short blonde arab etc). Hate is hate is hate and when yuou have to start with a statement such as that you are trying to make excuses for your own prejudices either real or unreal for fear of the unknown lets try to talk and you will see us gay people are no different than you str8 people my partner and I have been together 17 yrs this year more than many str8 couples now adays

kavanaugh77 welcome to cruise critic. Let me start by saying I'm not prejudice against anyone.

Nobody on this particular thread is talking hate, just dissapointment with the reaction or lack of action from Royal Caribbean.